Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have been trying to keep my wife fully informed during my transition, but she is confused and uncertain about what effects HRT will actually have on me. I'm starting at 65, so I have been searching the web for more clinical information on the effects of cross gender hormones on older people, but not finding much quality. There are plenty of newspaper articles and opinion pieces, but I need more qualified data, and I'm hoping the combined talents on this forum can point me to quality and succinct articles on line. I know nobody can predict exactly what will happen due to the variation in individuals, but there are general indications.

TIA

Allie

I am also 65 and was surprised at how soon my breasts started growing.  According to the charts I'd seen, it should take 3-6 month to see some growth.  With me, it was 3 weeks!  I have no idea how big I'll get, but my breasts are definitely bigger, to the point I have to buy new bras.

I started at 61, and like Anne my breasts started developing quickly.  I've been on hrt for nearly two years and I'm about a large "B" cup or smaller "C".  I've had some definite fat distributions in my face, butt, hips and thighs.  Skin is incredibly soft and somewhat fragile.  Some very small spots of male pattern baldness have disappeared.

Hugs, Jess

Thanks ladies, I'm only a couple of months in and had not noticed much until my wife pointed out my right breast was significantly larger than my left. She needs to read, from a qualified source, what the range of effects might be. I've told her my expectations covering a broad range, but I suspect she thinks I have a biased view. That's why I can't use opinion sources. There are plenty of general sources citing effects over all ages, but my understanding is that the effectiveness of HRT diminishes with age.

Allie

Hi Allie,

I don't know if this is exactly what your looking for, but it has some really interesting information...as far as I can tell. It's not the most exciting thing I've ever read. In fact I read a little bit of it, take a break to process what I've read, then return to it later to repeat the process. It's about the importance of adding progesterone to your HRT.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/104/4/1181/5270376

I hope it helps,

xoxo

Lexxi

Thanks Lexxi, I did read this from a link in another thread, and actually briefly talked about it with my wife (she is menopausal and interested in HRT), but it didn't have the specific age related outcomes we are looking for. She is a meticulous planner, and wants to know precisely where I'll be in 12 months, 5 years etc. I explained to her that there isn't an accurate plan for my development, but I suspect she thinks I don't have enough knowledge or I am not telling her everything! If she can read it for herself she will better be able to understand.

Allie

Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 25, 2019, 09:51:29 PM
Thanks Lexxi, I did read this from a link in another thread, and actually briefly talked about it with my wife (she is menopausal and interested in HRT), but it didn't have the specific age related outcomes we are looking for. She is a meticulous planner, and wants to know precisely where I'll be in 12 months, 5 years etc. I explained to her that there isn't an accurate plan for my development, but I suspect she thinks I don't have enough knowledge or I am not telling her everything! If she can read it for herself she will better be able to understand.

Allie

You and your wife will find that there is no telling what will happen, only what could.
The timeline is an individual adventure.

That is what I have been saying Jessica, just need to see show her an article on it! There is some information that HRT in older patients needs to be modified to take into account slightly higher health risks due to age, and that the hormone doses may be lower than younger transitioners. This can lead to longer periods for change or even less dramatic changes.  It seems there is very little data on late transitioners, but someone on here may have better information! Hopefully whatever comes up will be of interest to all out older members.

This is one of the few articles I have found for older transitioners, but dealing mainly with risks. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261954751_Conjectures_Concerning_Cross-Sex_Hormone_Treatment_of_Aging_Transsexual_Persons

Allie

Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 25, 2019, 10:35:33 PM
That is what I have been saying Jessica, just need to see show her an article on it! There is some information that HRT in older patients needs to be modified to take into account slightly higher health risks due to age, and that the hormone doses may be lower than younger transitioners. This can lead to longer periods for change or even less dramatic changes.  It seems there is very little data on late transitioners, but someone on here may have better information! Hopefully whatever comes up will be of interest to all out older members.

This is one of the few articles I have found for older transitioners, but dealing mainly with risks. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261954751_Conjectures_Concerning_Cross-Sex_Hormone_Treatment_of_Aging_Transsexual_Persons

Allie

This paper was published in 2014, and the knowledge may have changed.
I am a medical professional, I am well into my 70's, and am not even able to project the outcome for myself.
I had OK breast growth so far, some feminizing effects took place in my face through fat redistribution.

But that is about it what one can say!

Linde I'm so glad that you saw this thread. I was just getting ready to tell Allie that she should contact you and ask for your advice. I wasn't teasing yesterday when I said that I trust everything you say. You always have the best answers and I believe your advice is golden.

xoxo

Lexxi

Thanks Linde, just to be clear, I don't need this information for myself (though seeing it would be nice) but to have something for my wife to refer to. I have good information from my Endo, things I've been told and, of course, this forum, but qualified and current text on transitioning later in life would help me back up what I am saying! I know some of you are thinking my wife doesn't trust what I'm telling her, but it does sound a bit suspicious that I can't tell her what lies ahead, and can't refer her to any text to back that up! This is a huge impact on her life and I want her to feel confident she has all the information available.

Allie

Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 25, 2019, 09:51:29 PM
Thanks Lexxi, I did read this from a link in another thread, and actually briefly talked about it with my wife (she is menopausal and interested in HRT), but it didn't have the specific age related outcomes we are looking for. She is a meticulous planner, and wants to know precisely where I'll be in 12 months, 5 years etc. I explained to her that there isn't an accurate plan for my development, but I suspect she thinks I don't have enough knowledge or I am not telling her everything! If she can read it for herself she will better be able to understand.

Ask her if all her friends had that same amount of development and at the same rate.  It's the same thing with us.  Each and everyone will have our own individual results.

Quote from: AnneK on May 26, 2019, 05:56:12 AM
Ask her if all her friends had that same amount of development and at the same rate.  It's the same thing with us.  Each and everyone will have our own individual results.

Thanks Anne, but she won't feel comfortable until she reads it. Up 'til then it's just someone's opinion and can't relate it to natal development as our hormone doses are managed. It's not a critical issue, but something which would make things easier.

Allie

Here's a link with some info.

https://www.rainbowhealthontario.ca/TransHealthGuide/pdf/fem-ht-expectedeffectsguide.pdf (https://www.rainbowhealthontario.ca/TransHealthGuide/pdf/fem-ht-expectedeffectsguide.pdf)

Of course, even that is not accurate.  It says breast growth should start at 3 - 6 months, but it was only 3 weeks for me.  She should know, based on her own experience, in comparison with her friends, that it's simply impossible to predict the results.

Thanks Anne, a good, simple graphic! My wife would argue that she and her friends didn't have their hormones prescribed so it's different. I will show her this graphic, plus some other facts like reduced amount of surgeons who will perform GCS after 65. As you can imagine, she is feeling quite vulnerable to ending up on her own, and is having trouble understanding the details of transitioning. It seems age related information is scarce!

Allie

QuoteMy wife would argue that she and her friends didn't have their hormones prescribed so it's different.

That may be the case, but doesn't change the fact that people react differently to a wide variety of things.  As far as prescribed, doctors may prescribe different doses or anti-androgens, depending on the individual.  In my case, I didn't need to be prescribed one because I've been on Dutasteride for over 2 years.  That may also affect results too.  Everyone is different and so her question is impossible to answer.

You could invite your wife to join here and she would be able to hear  peoples stories first hand as well as have other SO's to talk with.

This table for sure is only an approximation.  Some of us (I am one of them), did not experience any of those influences fro HRT.

Because of my biology, my breasts started to grow 5 to 6 years ago (I started to finish puberty, go figure), and i have not seen any change of their growth caused by HRT.  They still have the same growing speed they used to have from the beginning (grass grows faster).  I do not see any influence of HRT on my hair growth.  My beard is still growing as fast (rather slow) as it always has.  I need to shave once or twice a week, i never in my life shaved more often.

I still hope that my body fat will be distributed differently, but it is still there were it was for many years, and the sections of my body I want to have more fat are still looking as lean as they have ever been.
All the stuff with the genitals and their sue were gone for me several years ago, and that was without HRT.

As it was said before there is nothing such as a road map on what HRT does or not does, every body reacts different.
There are some girls here, who have hardly any boobs even after several years of HRT, while others have real big boobs after a way shorter time.  Your genetics determine how your body will react on HRT.  The only real solid fact that will be true for every person is
YMWV!

My wife loves me, but has reluctant support for my transition. She doesn't really understand the why's and when's, and she has this idea that what I tell her is coloured by my desire to be female. I have told her everything you girls have mentioned, but she's still suspicious. She is not comfortable discussing it and I have invited her to join this forum, or even use my login to read the SO's forum, but she won't. I am committed to supporting her through this, and part of that is to give her information she has confidence in. She wants to book holidays for next January, and know for sure if I will be able to appear at the beach as a male. Telling her I just don't know plays to her suspicions I'm holding back. This is why I need qualified text to help her understand.

I feel her suspicions can undermine our relationship, but telling her I don't know what will happen is not lessening her suspicions. She has a concept of how many people in the world are trans, so it would make sense that there would be lots of text on the WWW. If I can't find what we are looking for, her suspicions will increase. I'm confident other SO's would be in a similar place, and success would benefit many, so the search continues!!

Allie

Most of these studies show that the effects of HRT on the older population are not well documented, due to few people available for evaluation. There just are not that many of us.

Having said that, there are many of us here on Susan's Place who started transition after the age of 50. For my self, I started at age 64. I am now age 69. From my personal experience, the effects of hormone therapy are the same for me as for many much younger people. The important thing is to not have any cardiovascular disease in progress,  monitor liver and kidney function and let your doctor adjust the dose based on blood levels.

Many doctors prefer trans dermal, injectable, or sublingual bio identical Estradiol. Adding Progesterone does have some advantages, but many doctors still consider this as optional. Using a Testosterone blocker has advantages, but is not necessary after genital surgery or with prolonged Estradiol therapy, as shown by blood levels.

When you will no longer be able to go to the beach topless is really variable. Some of us respond rather quickly and others just barely respond to Estradiol when it comes to breast growth. Transition can be very embarrassing when you begin to show, but are not ready to fully accept the new gender expression. For myself, I wore a swim shirt to keep covered up as much as possible.

Some of us are lucky enough to have an accepting spouse and others do not. My marriage did not survive my transition, but we had problems for other reasons as well. Many women just do not want to be married to another woman, ether cis or trans. Other women have so much unconditional love, that the external appearance is not a major concern and there are many variations in between.

If your wife is expressing reluctant support, then there seems to be issues which need to be discussed between you and your wife. I recommend a professional counselor before proceeding with transition.

Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 26, 2019, 05:11:53 PM
My wife loves me, but has reluctant support for my transition. She doesn't really understand the why's and when's, and she has this idea that what I tell her is coloured by my desire to be female. I have told her everything you girls have mentioned, but she's still suspicious. She is not comfortable discussing it and I have invited her to join this forum, or even use my login to read the SO's forum, but she won't. I am committed to supporting her through this, and part of that is to give her information she has confidence in. She wants to book holidays for next January, and know for sure if I will be able to appear at the beach as a male. Telling her I just don't know plays to her suspicions I'm holding back. This is why I need qualified text to help her understand.

I feel her suspicions can undermine our relationship, but telling her I don't know what will happen is not lessening her suspicions. She has a concept of how many people in the world are trans, so it would make sense that there would be lots of text on the WWW. If I can't find what we are looking for, her suspicions will increase. I'm confident other SO's would be in a similar place, and success would benefit many, so the search continues!!

Allie

The only way to be sure that you can go to your beach vacation 7 months is not taking any hormones!  Otherwise you never will know what size boobs you will be sporting at that time!
When I started with my current endo, he said to me that I should not expect any significant breast growth because of my age.  I was something like a tiny A cup in those days!  Well, fast forward, today, about 6 months later, I had to get a n new 42 C bra to feel comfortable!  The endo feels this is unreal, I know it is pretty real.  You might be as unreal as I, and you could kiss your beach vacation good bye, for the case you want to walk around with an uncovered top!

The closest time table you can find is the graph from above, and even that is noting rock solid!

Thanks Dani. Having information from you is invaluable as your starting point and mine are almost the same. My wife is trying, but she has challenges as well, needing all the small details sorted. Not knowing exactly what is ahead worries her. She has always been like this, as I have always been trans to her, and we accepted each other with these quirks. But it does mean I need to do my best to make her comfortable. Seeing it laid out from a qualified source will go some way to easing her concerns (even with YMMV factored in).

We are both avid scuba divers, and our holidays are invariably to locations which involve beach/summer wear. I am quite broad so I should be able to hide my breasts for a while, but we both know it will eventually become an issue. Hopefully, as she slowly sees my progress, we will get to a point where she will be more comfortable, and we can evolve together. I think she is worth the effort!

Allie

Did you say scuba dive?  :icon_ihearu: My ears just perked up. I live in the Miami area and I scuba dive the Florida Keys quite regularly, whenever the mood and weather gets me going. Give me a PM next time you are in Florida for your next dive trip.

Will do Dani, we have been diving for 35 years, but have only once come your way, in 2012 when we were filming Sperm Whales in Dominica. Most of our diving is at home near Melbourne Australia, and the Indo Pacific region. I am so lucky having a partner who shares my passion, another reason I want to keep her.

Of course, if you ever come to Melbourne, pm me!

Allie

(https://live.staticflickr.com/2287/1945032719_be3197e1b0.jpg)

Quote from: AnneK on May 26, 2019, 08:02:16 AM
Here's a link with some info.

Anne, My wife said this link was helpful for her,  thanks!

Linde, I know we are all different, and you had a head start on us! One way or another I will find a way to be beach ready, part of my job is taking students on snorkel trips!

Allie

Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 26, 2019, 09:37:16 PM
We are both avid scuba divers, and our holidays are invariably to locations which involve beach/summer wear. I am quite broad so I should be able to hide my breasts for a while, but we both know it will eventually become an issue. Hopefully, as she slowly sees my progress, we will get to a point where she will be more comfortable, and we can evolve together. I think she is worth the effort!

Perhaps you'll soon be like Raquel Welch in Fantastic Voyage!   ;)
http://frogwoman.org/tag/raquel-welch (http://frogwoman.org/tag/raquel-welch)