Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Decide for yourself the type of impact this video will have.
Julie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc

Another in a narrow line of people who have gone through the entire guide-lined process, used clinics, used doctors, used therapists and now say they need 'reimbursement' for lost 'manhood.'

It's always someone else's fault: a surgeon's, a psychologist's, their mother's. The one choice they never seem to alight on is 'their own.'

I think it impacts people who already believe we are 'mentally unbalanced.' I doubt it impacts transitioners at all, unless it 'tips' a balance for some legal ban. I imagine that is remote, at best.

N~

oh get over it ..... is what i say... they wanted it, they said do it... surgeon was doing a serivce... you cant buy a car, use it, and then say, well, i dont want it, take it back at full price...
R :police:

people must take responsibilities for their own actions, period! no one held a gun to this guys head and made him have srs.  >:( >:( >:(

i agree with renate :"Give me a paper to sign and I'll never sue you or regret it."

Another non-transsexual person who followed his own agenda to get what he wanted for whatever reasons and then regreted it  ::)

Do I feel sad?  NO! basically it comes down to this phrase:  You Get What You Deserve!

tink :icon_chick:

I didn't get to look at the you tube as I am in the stone age of computers. What I can detect with all of your comments, it's about a person who regrets haveing GRS. I feel sorry for this person and they were not taking their own responcibilities for themselves. There should have been a light bulb go off before the surgery sometime along the transition trail. I do understand that with younger people and some older, they get into these groups and that is what they want to do is change genders. It's fluid, right? Wrong, if you have surgery it will change you. Maybe not to your liking. I have known two such people over the years. Yes, they went to repudable surgeons, one Dr. Meltzer. Not his fault. This is why we have to have therapy and sometimes that doesn't work.
Sheila

I do so like that miraculous full beard.

My electro and I half-joke that hormone and surgery letters could be replaced by achieving a certain number of hours of electro - 50 hours gets you the hormone letter, 150~200 gets surgery certification.

Joking aside, without education, the public will see this story as fact, not as a rare anomaly or worse yet ruse.

Though rare, the Jerry Springer producers, fundies, and others who attempt to defend against the 'transsexual menace' will always be able to find (or manufacture) a regret case such as this that they can then use to defend their position.

Karen

Quote from: Renate on January 13, 2008, 08:59:43 AM
I think that there should be mandatory psychiatric counseling before marriage, the regret rate is a lot higher.

Renate

Hear hear. Nobody is talking about making marriage harder to get into (although I think it should be) or making a moral judgment about marriage, even though the regret rate is much higher and the consequences can also be irreversible, financially and emotionally. I'd rather have had to pass a psych eval before my last marriage. I'd have failed and not made that drastic mistake. Now I can't even blame a doctor for allowing me to get married, even though it wasn't right for me. Maybe I could sue the marriage commissioner ;)

Dennis

I believe that this video has been discussed here before.  However, I find it amusing and at the same time very sad that the person seems to accept no blame or responsibility for himself, he blames others for the "Ultimate decision".

I think that this video goes along way to support the need for competent therapy and that just because some think they are TS, and that they are the best judge of what is best for them, it's not always the case.  Unfortunately we are not privy to what took place during this persons therapy sessions; was the client truthful or did he tell the therapist what he/she wanted to hear so that he could achieve their misguided goal; was the therapist in fact competent/qualified to make diagnosis with regard to transsexual issues.  Hopefully this information will be presented to a medical review board or what ever instrument they use.

Steph

In this particular case, Alan Finch, he went through one assessment and was rejected for SRS. Then he went to a different assessor and modified his answers to fit the criteria. So he bears a significant amount of responsibility for a stupid decision imo.

Dennis

I find it infuriating that this person refuses to take responsibility for his actions.  Thats all I have to say.

Audrey

When I first saw this video, I wondered about the beard as well.

I don't have anything to say about people who go through SRS... except this... it's your life and your decision.  Take your time and do the right thing the first time.

Cindi

Quote from: Karen on January 13, 2008, 01:02:06 PM
I do so like that miraculous full beard.

Karen

yes, the beard is very strange...how would you explain it?

transplants from the rear? rofl :laugh:

Quote from: ell on January 13, 2008, 07:32:42 PM

Quote from: Karen on January 13, 2008, 01:02:06 PM
I do so like that miraculous full beard.

Karen

yes, the beard is very strange...how would you explain it?

He said he started hormones at 18, so he might not have had enough beard to bother with electrolysis. Or maybe T can awake some dormant hair cells, not sure how that worked. It is a bit of a scruffy beard for a 37 year old.

Dennis

If you've had full electro, T won't give a full beard.
I had electro a long time before HRT and had no beard at all,
once a year I had to remove with electro
about 10 fine slightly dark hair,
but that's all. That went on for 7 years.

Its possible that person had little hair at 18, though I'd be surprised
there was none if he has a full beard now.

For me, it sounds like he had SRS before electro, which many people
do, which I find a bit incredible but hey, its their lives.

The beard caught my eye also. Though I should point out in my case at 18 I didn't have facial hair. It wasn't until 20's that I even had some noticeable facial fur. In my 30's the fur was thick. I had a year of electro, and a year of laser on my face. So a couple hundred hours of electro at 2 hours a week plus having had it done at other times and sometimes 4 hours a week. I'm 40 and post op and still if I tried I could grow a full beard but not much of a moustache. Electro is high on my to do list needless to say once I'm financially stable again.
Rashelle

Quote from: Keira on January 14, 2008, 12:59:34 AM


For me, it sounds like he had SRS before electro, which many people
do, which I find a bit incredible but hey, its their lives.

its called rushing through demolishing safeguards because he thinks he knows best...
R :police:

Our world if full of idiots (in America we call it congress).  But that's not the only deal.  Ask General Pickett if that charge was all that wise.  Ask the French at Agincourt if that was the best idea they ever came up with. Yeah, Edmund Hillary got fame and fortune by climbing Everest.  But if I could revive some of the bodies up there, they might well opt for a vacation on Miami Beach instead.  So, one person regrets it.  So what?

the deal is, everytime someone rushes through transition, then regrets it, then _SUES_ the services who helped them. they make the whole process longer and slower for the rest of us to safeguard against such rushes... which just hurts more...
R :police:

Quote from: Karen on January 13, 2008, 01:02:06 PM
I do so like that miraculous full beard.

My electro and I half-joke that hormone and surgery letters could be replaced by achieving a certain number of hours of electro - 50 hours gets you the hormone letter, 150~200 gets surgery certification.

Joking aside, without education, the public will see this story as fact, not as a rare anomaly or worse yet ruse.

Though rare, the Jerry Springer producers, fundies, and others who attempt to defend against the 'transsexual menace' will always be able to find (or manufacture) a regret case such as this that they can then use to defend their position.

Karen

Except many of us with dark hair these days get laser.  I have had as much hair removal as 100+ hours of electro with 3 1/2 hours of laser.  Seeing you have brown hair, these days any tech who does both laser and electro would have recommended laser.  Electro is being used less and less by those with dark hair, we see it as a waste of time and money. 

Back on topic.  They have regrets.  They messed up their own life.  The fact these people messed up their lives is making people like mine harder. 

Talk about transphobic too.  Ugh disgusting.  Reinforcing the worst views on transsexuality possible.  We are not mutilated men. 

I don't believe that someone could sue any of the surgeons that do SRS. I believe that the routine is similar in the US as it is here Canada. It's called *a paper trail* a paper trail of documents that one fills out and signs as an agreement for counseling with a therapists and or a psychiatrists during the whole proses before and after one has done a real life test.  a Paper trail again at the clinic where you go to have the surgery. We consent by way of a goodly amount of papers with our signature on them as we are progressed along through the years.

Let's see, for instance my first diagnosis was to establish if I qualified for transitioning. This consisted of three trips to the Clark institute to evaluate if I was truly transsexual. Then there was two trips to an endocrinologist to get the hormones prescribed to me and four years full time under supervision of my shrink before I arrived at the surgery table four years ago. I believe it would be quite difficult to change ones mind and decide to sue the clinic for malpractice for the removal of this person's Mikey Mouse.

I also can't see someone going all the way through to the surgery if they are not serious on completing the journey to its completion, for keeps. It takes guts even just do transition and it takes and even bigger truck load of guts to go through with SRS. I could say it takes balls but those  are converted into what is now an inner part of you're self  at this stage of the game.

A truly trans will seek to go all the way through to the desired gender and sex. To play out what turns out to be just a sham or a scheme to sue the good surgeons???? Pretty drastic step if you ask me. One would have to be awfully desperate for money, especially if you take a typical red blooded man and you take out your Colt 45 and threaten to remove his Micky Mouse, then watch this man fight to the death to keep his Micky Mouse intact and safe between his legs.

And yes about the beard wouldn't grow again after electrolysis and laser. 

Impostor I believe

Cindy

as much as thier wrong. i dont think they transitioned and got grs JUST to sue the surgeon... they were mentally a bit bonkers apparnetly...

like ive said many times, not every person who claims to be one sex, is....
R :police:

I saw something somewhere that suggested that this guy was now being influenced by some anti-trans groups to speak out in the way he does. I agree with Rachael's assessment. Bonkers.

And, as far as the beard, perhaps an Australian can kick in here - is electro/laser covered by your medical system? That may be why he has a beard. If SRS was covered and electro/laser wasn't, he may not have been able to afford the latter.

Dennis

And this person isn't just saying it was a mistake for HIM, he's implying the entire GID and SRS thing is a sham for everyone, calling it "genital amputation," telliing the "if someone says they're Jesus, shall we crucify them?" or whatever story.

He reminds me a bit of that Jerry Leach guy. It was a mistake for HIM, so the only way to save face is to invalidate everyone else now too.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on January 16, 2008, 11:05:00 AM
And this person isn't just saying it was a mistake for HIM, he's implying the entire GID and SRS thing is a sham for everyone, calling it "genital amputation," telliing the "if someone says they're Jesus, shall we crucify them?" or whatever story.

He reminds me a bit of that Jerry Leach guy. It was a mistake for HIM, so the only way to save face is to invalidate everyone else now too.

~Kate~

Yeah, I suppose by the same argument, since there have been many cases of misdiagnosis and subsequent surgery in the past, the entire practice of surgery should be scrapped. Makes perfect sense!

Hi Dennis
I believe your are right. I saw this video before, it isn't all that recent. I am not certain but I think it is a couple of years or so old.

Cindy

ill admit, i transitioned because i had other mental problems, and evil doctors convinced me i was a woman....
i went through the pain of my childhood and coming out, lost love, lost family, going ft. Funny how i didnt find out along that road that i was a man? maybe its because he rushed.... not because its invalid...
R :police:

Hi Rachael
Yes we should get a hero medallion along with hero cookies and a glass of milk to wash them down with and have our mama pat us on the head for being nice girls.

Well I believe that by now you realise I was just joshin but not far from the truth. Anyway I like being a little girl and if anyone else says any different I'll steel their lollipop.  ;D

Cindy

It does raise some interesting points though...

If GID is a medical condition, and can be "diagnosed" by a professional, and the recommended treatment is transition...

DOES he then have a case?

Is it any different than going to a doctor with stomach pains, having a recommending appendectomy done, then finding out it was just some indigestion?

The legal liability I would think then rests with the professionals recommending him for SRS, not with the surgeon. The surgeon isn't qualified to diagnose the condition, only to treat it.

~Kate~

Well whats the update, did that idiot of a guy win his case or what, I sure hope he lost, just looked at the video, he sure was in 1hell of a rush, he was in so much of a hurry he forgot to get laser for his beard lol!!! Its always the same, people in a rush always end up doing the wrong thing and having regrets, from the time I came out to the time I had my GRS it was 12years, in that time I thought I could go thru transition without having GRS, but in the end I had to have GRS to be a complete woman, I left it to the very last, but I'v no regrets, I can't understand where that guy is coming from.
p

Hi  pauline

I don't know how long the real life experience is in Australia but here in Canada and in most of the states in the US is for two years. You got two years to make up your mind if you want to keep your Micky Mouse or have it removed.  For me the real life test was for four years before I got my hands on enough cash to get the surgery. If this guy actually paid to get his surgery then he needs a brain scan to see if anybody is home in there.

Wing Walker asked me, do you have any idea how many things a good swift kick in the back side with a size 12 Kodiak boot can cure?

Cindy

This isn't the first time I've seen or heard of someone who can't take the responsibility for their decisions.  But what I don't get is I've never heard anyone wanting to sue their therapists.  Since no respectable SRS doctor will do the surgery unless you have the two letters, isn't it really the therapist/psychiatrist who is responsible for the "misdiagnosis"?  But I'm sure these sue happy people are coming from the standpoint of who has more money and/or better malpractice insurance.  :P

And that woman lawyer pursuing a class action suit only bolsters the already tainted image of lawyers as sharks. 

What do you call 100 lawyers lying at the bottom of the ocean?  A good start!  :laugh:

Whatever, I'd love to know how this lawsuit was settled.  Anyone know?

Julie

What you would tend to do in a lawsuit like that is sue everyone, and let the jury apportion the blame.  You want to sue everyone, because in the beginning, you don't know who has, as they say in the industry, the 'deep pockets.'

Update on Alan Finch.

I was chatting with an Aussie friend the other night who is very active and in-the-know about transsexual issues all over the world and particularly in her own country. So I asked her about this man.

She said that Alan Finch has pretty much 'dropped out of sight and mind,' but that his web site "Gender-Menders"  http://home.vicnet.net.au/~gendmend/Home.htm  (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~gendmend/Home.htm) is still active, just has a decided lack of members.

She said that Monash Medical Centre had a major influx of government funding to bring things up-to-date in the standards area and that until 2006 there was a lot of running for cover and review being done by and about surgeons, endos and psychiatrists. However after 2006 everything just suddenly 'went quiet.'

No further word on any lawsuits.

They are thinking that there was perhaps an out-of-court settlement, but if so no details have been made public and there is no longer any talk about Alan Finch and his 'change-of-mind.'

This pattern has been one that often ensues when regretters make headlines, unless they have the backing of some 'religious' group who trots them out periodically to start a brush fire.

Nichole 

omg LOL.... that guys website is so full of crap, it makes the british gun control network look intelectural! (bitish anti gun worry group that wants to ban toy guns, and comes out with utter referenceless crap)
He seems annoyed, but entirely wrong, and leaves out many factors in his information.
i couldnt stop laughing... its daft...
what an ->-bleeped-<-.
R >:D

Not to get off the subject of the ->-bleeped-<-, but does that group really oppose replica weapons, i.e., weapons that are not real - that can not shoot?  What are you going to do, club people with them? - in which case hammer control is also key. 

Quote from: tekla on January 22, 2008, 12:24:40 PM
Not to get off the subject of the ->-bleeped-<-, but does that group really oppose replica weapons, i.e., weapons that are not real - that can not shoot?  What are you going to do, club people with them? - in which case hammer control is also key. 

:icon_pistoles:   :icon_userfriendly:

In the short time I've spent here in the UK, I have noticed a bit of a tendency to go... overboard with things. I have, for example, repeatedly been told that my handy nail-file is a deadly weapon at the new metal detectors they have at some of the tube stations...

I will clip and file thee to death, heathen!!!

Hmmm.

Its becoming the epitome of "The Nanny State," and is called such on several headline sites on the net.  FARK in particular seems to love the odd articles from The Sun. 

It's a very scary thought, that one could be 100% positive that this is what's best, that one could know for a fact and not have any doubts, but then it just doesn't work.  It just might not work out in the head, where it matters.

Such a thought kind of causes doubts on its own...

It's got me very, very scared, actually.  But it's something I've wanted since I was a child, something I've needed.  The past few years have seen a major downfall in my desire to change gender, but it's mostly because I suppressed it and went through so much pain trying to just be a guy.  In the end though, it's always a shot in the dark:-(

Hi Kalt
This post you have submitted I must say is right on the dollar, if one is not certain then wait.
I was also scared very frightened, I never had any type of surgery before for anything. I had many fears and not to mention right down to the little stuff. When I come out on the other side I was pretty well out of it for a few weeks, depression I had before seemed to follow me to the other side. It is not an easy thing to do and I am surprised how come there aren't more post ops come out and tell their story.

Cindy 

No, waiting isn't right.

I'm the kind of person that even though I was living full time as a female and was forced out of it, I made myself by alright as a guy.  All in all the surgery isn't imperative, but it's what I want.  If I don't like it, I'll deal, it's just that simple.

All in all though, I'd much rather strut down the beach in a bikini than with a six pack and some boulder shoulders, I'd rather be the one who cooks and has some heart to hearts with the woman than those guys who have to pretend to be all macho and scream at the television when the game is on.  I'd rather just be me, and be accepted as me, instead of acting as I want to as a guy and getting strange looks the rest of my life.

That seems like a bunch of stereotypes.  Lots of men cook, and up until quite recently most professional chiefs were men, not women, and that still holds true in a lot of places.  (And there are a lot more women other than my ex who don't know how to make anything for dinner beyond reservations.)  I know all sorts of guys who can't be bothered by sports, and a lot of women who are really into them, acting as dumb as any guy during the game.  It's the Title IX deal, its created an entire generation of female sports nuts.  And, lots of women who go to big colleges get turned on to that level of sports and it carries on when they leave.

And its the girl with the bikini AND the six pack who gets the attention.

Quote from: tekla on January 22, 2008, 02:40:06 PM
And its the girl with the bikini AND the six pack who gets the attention.

Sadly, isn't THAT the truth.  :icon_anger:

Quote from: kalt on January 22, 2008, 02:24:01 PM


I made myself by alright as a guy.  All in

glad someone could cope.... i sure as sausage couldnt do that
R

Quote from: Rachael on January 22, 2008, 05:36:43 PM

Quote from: kalt on January 22, 2008, 02:24:01 PM


I made myself by alright as a guy.  All in

glad someone could cope.... i sure as sausage couldnt do that
R

It's not that I didn't want to change any less, it's that I accepted that life is always worth fighting for.  It's growing up:-)

No, its not, growing up, and life being worth living, is what forced me to transition, in spite of being thrown out by my parents.
if i had not transitioned when i did, i would be dead now, melodrama? no, cold, honest, truth.
R :police:

 I agree with your post totally Rachael. I was disowned by family as well, but it didn't stop me from  following where my instincts led me in my desire to continue to live and find reasonable happiness and sanity in my life again.

Cindy

All this BS of, "I'm going to kill myself if I don't transition" and "life isn't worth living if I don't transition" is, always has been, and always will be, straight up BS.

Life is always worth living.  From the jews that toughed it through the concentration camps to the Native Americans who had to deal with the european small pox and watching their entire population whither to near nothingness, to the African slaves who watched their families being ripped away from them to serve a life of humiliation and suffering, to the women in the middle east who are forcefully castrated, often with uncleanly methods, to the little gay guy getting raped in an ally by a hateful group of redneck bigots, and yes, YES YES YES YES YES, to the whiny little transsexual who needs to take a look at the good things in life instead of focusing on the bad.

End of story nothing more nother less don't confuse the issue with more emotional insecurity!  Life is always worth living, PERIOD.

you have less emotional senstivity than a dead badger....

Suicide isnt funny, or a joke.
when i and other talk of it, its serious
i tried 3 times in my teens to die, one episode landed me in hospital, full of tubes and wires.
Belive me when i say it is not some whining cry for help.
I personally could not have lasted much longer, as a male, i am not one, and living as one was insanely hard. Maybe i have more dysphoria than you, but i sure as hell couldnt cope. and With my track record, id have gotten it right eventually....
your lack of respect for other people's views is sickening Kalt...
its only a miracle you picked on ME about this, not someone more fragile who might have been caused serious harm by your words.
Please mature.... and learn some respect for others.
R :police:

I think Cindy and Rachael you are both very brave girls, I never considered myself brave cos my family fully supported my transition, I supposed I consider myself lucky, when I went thru some depression for a few days after my surgery my Dad and 3brothers did everything to keep my spirits up, Im thankfully for it now and so simple at the time, I remember a week after my surgery waking up one morning and 12 pink balloons tied to my bed, 3 to each bed post lol!!! my Dad and brothers had done it while I slept, when I asked them ''whats with the pink balloons'' my Dad whispered in my ear, ''pink is for my special girl''
So you see, Rachael and Cindy, to be disowned by one's family must be the worse thing ever, I don't think I would survive that, maybe both of you find happiness.
p

considering 50% of transpeople attempt suicide in thier teens, and 75% of those suceed, sucicide is a scarily real matter...


pauline: im jelous as hell! :)
R :police:

Life is not always worth living Kalt, nobody can get inside another person's head, things are not always black and white or cut and dry, if only life was that simple, when someone is in a deep depression, the last thing they want to hear is ''pull yourself together'' the whole issue of suicide is a complex issue, try and understand that, I solved my own issues by going thru transition many years ago and now living as a complete woman.
p

I'm going to agree with Rachael twice in a week now, the earth must be spinning off its axis and careening though space.  She is 100% correct except that even a dead badger might have more emotional sensitivity.

You might try reading some history books, for the few Jews (just perfect that you don't even bother to capitalize that word either) that made it out of those camps, plenty died having given up the will to live.  Try reading Viktor Emil Frankl, M.D., Ph.D., who wrote a book in 1946 called ...trotzdem ja zum Leben sagen (Ein Psychologe erlebt das Konzentrationslager) (literally: "...saying yes to life regardless; A Psychologist Experiences the Concentration Camp).  Its known in English (for those of you who can only read one language) by the title Man's Search for Meaning.  He wrote that because he wondered how some made it though, and others did not.  Before the war, he treated people who were prone to suicide, and having treated over 30,000 before he was arrested, he knew something about the process and the problem.

Faced with life on the reservations - and make no mistake, Native American Reservations were just Concentration Camps without the amenities - the death rate was astronomical in percentage terms.  (Which was just what the people who put them there wanted by the way.)  Many there, like in the Nazi Death Camps, just gave up the will to live.  Or to put it another way... did not want to live if that was the life they had to go through.

Ever go to jail?  If you do, wear loafers, because they will take your shoelaces away from you to keep you from hanging yourself, so real is the thought of suicide when most people are arrested.  That whole 'pants sagging down past your ass" deal is because no one in prison gets a belt.

the little gay guy getting raped in an ally {sic} by a hateful group of redneck bigots - I'm sure that many have killed themselves.  Actually, in all those cases you cited, people have killed themselves because of that.

And the African-American experience in the American South is a rather unique deal on several accounts, and its not really a solid comparison to GID or the Nazi Death Camps, or even the Native American experience.  Though, it is interesting to note that given the chance there at the end of the war to kill all the masters, they did not.  Perhaps proving that there was a superior and inferior race in the South, it was just not the way people thought - in the South - at that time.

People in real life don't attempt to commit suicide as a joke, or an attempt to 'get attention.'  It is always most real.  People who attempt suicide, or even threaten it ought to be taken just as seriously as you would the Hell's Angel who's telling you "If you piss on that bike I'm going to kill you."  You piss, they are going to be able to send you to your next of kin in #10 envelopes.

The rate of suicide among trans persons is very real, very frightening, and not a joke.  I read stuff on this board, and all the boards I visit, and cry (and I'm not the crying type) and then I thank the universe that when I was a teenager I had a change to go a different way - or else that fate may well have been mine. 

Yeah, sure there are people who triumph through adversity - we celebrate them because there are not that many.  Yes, there are people who thrive being outside the norm.  But they are few, not many. (And they are not interested in your celebration, or opinions either, that's why they chose the path they did.)

And Rachael is right, sooner or later people get it right.  And here in the Bay Area, were suicide is a bus ride away from almost certain success, we don't kid around with it. 

And, whatever I might say about Rachael, that sometimes she is a bitch, or a bit snappy, or a brat (just kidding - not really) I've never read her posts as "whiny."  Matter of fact, that's far more you, with the "I can't take this pill, it's too big" stuff.  (Like cutting it in half, or crushing it took a rocket scientist to figure out.)  Please.

And that "life is always worth living deal," I sure hope you never have to find out just how thin that line can be.  It's far less then a micron, to be sure.  Once you've had a life, you might come to know that.

Hi, Rachael,

I think that Kalt's remarks were uncalled for and insensitive and, yes it could affect a more sensitive person, and there are some on this board. Well I ain't exactly made of shoe leather either, but I think Kalt's remarks were unwarranted. 

spent 30 years drinking alcoholically trying to escape from myself. 30 years ago I wouldn't have known what the word "transsexual" was to save my soul. Stuff like that wasn't all that well known back then.

Towards the end and even after I quit drinking,  I, too, became suicidal until I was diagnosed with having bipolar disorder.  OK, that fixed some of the problem until GID took over and there weren't any pills that would work to alleviate it. But I finally found out about TS and here I am now, twenty years sober and 7 years full time and 4 years post op

Not everyone that comes here have a hide on them like shoe leather, as Kalt appears to suggest.  Not all of us have served in the military, either. I have a friend who did, in the Vietnam war. He drank himself to death, cirrhosis of the liver. He died in my arms.

Given the tone of Kalt's posting the personality of A DEAD SKUNK is more like it

Cindy 

Cindy 

All things aside. Kalt, if you can live life as a man, and be happy, DO IT....
because its sure as hell better than this...
you can doesnt mean everyone can, but see that as a blessing.
R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on January 22, 2008, 07:14:14 PM
you have less emotional senstivity than a dead badger....

Suicide isnt funny, or a joke.
when i and other talk of it, its serious
i tried 3 times in my teens to die, one episode landed me in hospital, full of tubes and wires.
Belive me when i say it is not some whining cry for help.
I personally could not have lasted much longer, as a male, i am not one, and living as one was insanely hard. Maybe i have more dysphoria than you, but i sure as hell couldnt cope. and With my track record, id have gotten it right eventually....
your lack of respect for other people's views is sickening Kalt...
its only a miracle you picked on ME about this, not someone more fragile who might have been caused serious harm by your words.
Please mature.... and learn some respect for others.
R :police:

Oh please, you think you're the only one?  You go off and once again, look for any excuse to smite me?

Guess what child, you really aren't the only one who's made more than a few attempts to run away from your problems by taking the easy way out: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/pPIC_0008.jpg

You know what I find sickening?  How all you can do is one: complain about how horrible your life is because you don't like who you look like in the mirror.  Two: try and bring everyone else down along with you.  Three: go on and on about how far you've come and simply go on about how stubborn you are that you couldn't even look towards the bright side of life.  Yes I'm mad, and yes I've lost patience with you.

To a mod: please get this girl to quit smiting me, I'm sick and tired of paying the consequences for her stupid grudge she holds against me.  I don't smite her everytime I have a disagreement with her, she doesn't seem to show the same courtesy to me though.  but I really ought to for the way this brat treats me with her narcisistic views and simply tries to bring people on this site down instead of guiding them to find the inner strength they need.

 Hi Pretty Pauline
I am doing fine though, I have a guardian angle who calls herself Wing Walker on this group. Actually we support each other. I wouldn't know what to do without her so I do pray that we both live to the ripe old age off 99.9 years old and the have the aliens come and abduct us and live forever,

Cindy   :D

You never know.  Sometimes, not even about yourself.  I've known lots of star types - people who's records/CD/downloads you have - and one of them, faced, as everyone other than Mick and Bono are at some point, did the suicide route because he could not face life without being a star.  I have a good friend who had gold records on his wall at home who loads trucks with me and says he's never been happier.

But the first one, no one really took it seriously until they found him dead, and in a really bad way (he cut his own throat) so its never something to take lightly.

Quote from: pretty pauline on January 22, 2008, 07:40:10 PM
Life is not always worth living Kalt

YES, it IS.  If it wasn't, then we wouldn't have been born.

Quotethe last thing they want to hear is ''pull yourself together''

Obviously.  The truth is hard to listen to.

Quotethe whole issue of suicide is a complex issue, try and understand that

You think I don't?  All it comes down to is will power though, keep trying or give up.

Quit making EXCUSES people.  That's all it is to think about suicide, is an excuse to give up.  Every second is filled with unlimited potential for good, don't waste it.

Quote from: kalt on January 22, 2008, 07:06:42 PM
All this BS of, "I'm going to kill myself if I don't transition" and "life isn't worth living if I don't transition" is, always has been, and always will be, straight up BS.

Life is always worth living.  From the jews that toughed it through the concentration camps to the Native Americans who had to deal with the european small pox and watching their entire population whither to near nothingness, to the African slaves who watched their families being ripped away from them to serve a life of humiliation and suffering, to the women in the middle east who are forcefully castrated, often with uncleanly methods, to the little gay guy getting raped in an ally by a hateful group of redneck bigots, and yes, YES YES YES YES YES, to the whiny little transsexual who needs to take a look at the good things in life instead of focusing on the bad.

End of story nothing more nother less don't confuse the issue with more emotional insecurity!  Life is always worth living, PERIOD.

That's a lot of big talk coming from one who couldn't live up to his obligation to join the U.S. Marine Corps.  I wonder how such a tough guy would have done in basic training.

WW

Wing Walker

Quote from: kalt on January 22, 2008, 07:06:42 PM
All this BS of, "I'm going to kill myself if I don't transition" and "life isn't worth living if I don't transition" is, always has been, and always will be, straight up BS.

Life is always worth living.  From the jews that toughed it through the concentration camps to the Native Americans who had to deal with the european small pox and watching their entire population whither to near nothingness, to the African slaves who watched their families being ripped away from them to serve a life of humiliation and suffering, to the women in the middle east who are forcefully castrated, often with uncleanly methods, to the little gay guy getting raped in an ally by a hateful group of redneck bigots, and yes, YES YES YES YES YES, to the whiny little transsexual who needs to take a look at the good things in life instead of focusing on the bad.

End of story nothing more nother less don't confuse the issue with more emotional insecurity!  Life is always worth living, PERIOD.

Screw you MAN, you have no idea what its like to sit there and think your some kind of freak, a outcast from all walks of life, and that all the harm you are doing to your family and especially the girl you love more than anything is in vain and that your the one to blame and that everything going on in your life would be better if you were dead, it comes to down to the fact that all the ->-bleeped-<-tyness going on around you is your fault and sadly its true, because we are the ones changing, we are causing the harm to the peoples around us and thats why people who are trans attempt suicide.

I dont know of any JEWS, OR BLACKS, OR Muslim women who think oh this happening because of me, NO they say some ->-bleeped-<- is doing this for a F'ed UP reason and thats why they continue to live on, whereas there are many days where I feel the world would be a lot better off WITHOUT ME.

SO SHUT YOUR HOLE

And even though I know I am gonna dropped in rep, banned, or have this post editied it was worth it, I just snap when people are ignorant, unsightfull, or unsupportive of others in their same situation.

BTW KALT I would appreciate it if you stop hitting on me on myspace, well I guess that doesnt matter cause I'm Unfriending you.

I rarely say anything these days, but you're posts have given me a reason to post. Judging by your very black and white mindset, you've never felt hopeless. You've never felt complete and utter despair.

Apparently, even when you're in a highly emotional state, YOU have absolutely logical and rational thought processes.

Emotions aren't like that. Emotions don't always allow for completely rational thought. YES, there is PLENTY to live for in life. I completely agree with that. But when we're in a state where we're hurting and FEELING things that are unimaginably painful, rational thought doesn't always prevail.

I understand some of your viewpoint. There IS indeed a whole hell of a lot to stay alive for.

But geez, have a little compassion. No one likes a cold-hearted person.

Hi Rachael I again agree with you, I went through enough crap and it's a miracle I'm still here now.
I to feel blessed to be where I am today. I have paid my dues to get here. Actually I believe there are many here that should get the hero's medallion and a hero's medallion. See I have really pretty darn near read every thread on this board and it is not hard to find another that experienced their own little corner of West Hell..

Cindy

Wtf people, everyone is here supporting this girl for saying that people shouldn't look at the brighter side of life and should just kill themselves if their circumstances aren't ideal.
I'm over here getting bitched at and smited left and right because I'm trying to make a stand to find some kind of inner strength.  What kind of place is this?  The "dogma" of this place seems to be that anyone who isn't entirely sympathetic and rushes to fit into the stereotypical suicidal transition or not trans is not welcome.

BYE.  I'm sick of these forums and am going to take a break for a while.  Kill yourselves for all I care now, I though I saw good at one time in this site and all I see is hatred and bigotry, the same kind that you complain about the rest of the world having.

um, actually i was defending the fact that people CAN have bad transitions... not that if you dont your not trans ....
you have absolutely no sympathy, or human emotion kalt, inners steanth is brilliant. but its like trying to move a ship with one tug.... unfocused, that strenth is useless.... in the right place, it makes all the difference.
your 'happy happy pull yourself together attitude is useless... depressed people simply cant 'snap out of it'
yes there is a lot to live for, but sometimes, its hard to see the wood through the trees...
yeah there can be too much sympathy sometimes, but it pays to be careful.
as someone who felt her consiousness slip away and fully expected to die, i can tell you that suicide is REAL. the depression is REAL. no amount of 'oh it will get better/pull yourself together, helps... but there is a way out, life is worth living, but for me, if it was as a guy... it wasnt...
i literally couldnt cope.... i STILL cry when i think about that thing between my thighs.... i cant shower with my eyes open.... messed up? yeah, probably. But my life is atleast LIVEABLE now. im heading somwhere where live IS worth living. Your 'oh buck up, it might never happen, just be a man and stop crying' attitude is SO bloody male i want to scream. I respect your gender identity Kalt, but ill be honest, you havent got a shred of female about you in your posting atttuide and demenour on the forums.
R >:D

THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN LOCKED AND WILL ONLY BE UNLOCKED BY ADMINS.

This site is about DIGNITY, RESPECT, COMPASSION and SUPPORT.  Members who are unable or unwilling to act accordingly will be banned.

We all need to be honest in our expression of our feelings or beliefs, however, this can still be done with DIGNITY, RESPECT, COMPASSION and SUPPORT, it just takes a little more skill.

Steph