Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone,

Can you recommend places for lip lift surgery in Bangkok? Not botox or enhancement please but specifically a lip lift.

I know of PAI but I wonder if there are other top rated clinics or hospitals?

Hi @Tills

Did you end up finding a surgeon in Bangkok or elsewhere for your lip lift?

Hi Victoria,

I've been very focused on buying a house in Scotland, with some ups and downs in the process, so I pushed back the lip lift. I have a consultation booked in March with a surgeon in the London area who has excellent reviews.

I'll keep you posted on here as to how that goes but the prices I have been given were also competitive with Thailand.

If I did have it done out there I'd go back to the surgeon who performed FFS so brilliantly: Dr Sutin at PAI.

xx

Quote from: Tills on January 17, 2026, 01:19:34 PMHi Victoria,

I've been very focused on buying a house in Scotland, with some ups and downs in the process, so I pushed back the lip lift. I have a consultation booked in March with a surgeon in the London area who has excellent reviews.

I'll keep you posted on here as to how that goes but the prices I have been given were also competitive with Thailand.

If I did have it done out there I'd go back to the surgeon who performed FFS so brilliantly: Dr Sutin at PAI.

xx

@Tills

Oooh how exciting!!

Buying a home in Scotland sounds wonderful. A city or country abode?

I'm excited to see what Sutin does with my nose and ears when I go in August.

He has garnered some fantastic reviews!!

I will look forward to reading what eventuates with your new home and surgeon journey. x

Hi Victoria,

Thank you for your good wishes about Scotland. I have an update!
https://www.susans.org/index.php?topic=250751.new#new

You have chosen a great surgeon in Dr Sutin. I like him a lot and he did a fantastic job with me. I will be watching your progress with huge interest. Keep us posted honey and good luck.

xx

Quote from: Tills on January 27, 2026, 10:18:36 PMHi Victoria,

Thank you for your good wishes about Scotland. I have an update!
https://www.susans.org/index.php?topic=250751.new#new

You have chosen a great surgeon in Dr Sutin. I like him a lot and he did a fantastic job with me. I will be watching your progress with huge interest. Keep us posted honey and good luck.

xx

Hey Tills,

It's good to hear positive responses from yourself and @Susan regarding Dr Sutin.

I'm sure all will be well and the results will be what I expect them to be.

Will definitely keep  the updates happening as they evolve.

Good morning from the UK.

Yesterday I went for a lip lift consultation with Ms Joy Odili who has excellent reviews. I saw her at Nuffield Wimbledon Parkside in South-West London, which is coincidentally where I am soon to have my final GRS vaginoplasty. Ms Odili knows Ms Tina Rashid well, who is the consultant surgeon for my GRS, so that was also reassuring.

She was fabulous. Lovely person and seemed extremely accomplished. She has excellent reviews. Although I don't have her final quote yet, the initial prices were reasonable for the UK providing I opt for local anaesthetic, rather than a general one, which I'm fine about.

She measured things carefully and drew a lines showing how she will perform the lip, not just in the middle but to lift both sides and create a cupid's bow, without going OTT and leaving masses of teeth showing!

I have read previously that two of the most significant female face signifiers are eyebrows and philtrum/upper lip and I believe this to be the case. A lip lift is something I have wanted for ages and I don't want fillers which would also be problematic. When I originally asked Dr Sutin about a lip lift at the time of my FFS, he wisely said I needed to let that settle first.

So I need to gather together the funds for this. I bought the property in Scotland first because I knew that if I didn't I'd have started spending the money on feminising things 🤣.

xx

Interesting to learn that the lip distance is a big signifier of femininity. I didn't think it was so critical but interested to see how it works out for you. If its significant I'll add to my list of stuff to get done. I avoided having it done with my FFS due to financial limitations and I thought would be too much at once which is probably wise.

I wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference but maybe your subconcious picks up on little markers like that.

Google Ai states " Males tend to have a longer distance from the nose base to the top of the upper lip (avg. ~15.7–23.6mm) compared to females (avg. ~14.3–20.6mm)"

Mine is 17mm roughly so I guess that means it doesn't make much difference to me. I could be either. Androgynous lips!

Mine is 20mm so deffo pushing it. Looks like more surgery would help (my face but not my debt situation!)

C 😻

Quote from: Charlotte Kitty on April 22, 2026, 11:15:00 AMMine is 20mm so deffo pushing it. Looks like more surgery would help (my face but not my debt situation!)

C 😻

You're still in range Charlotte, no point bankrupting yourself over a couple of millimeters!

It's definitely a big signifier . It's one of the main ways people gender identify others, consciously and subconsciously. It's not simply about the distance, it's about the way the upper lip tends to be turned upwards in females, typically showing a small gap, and female lips tend to be fuller and with a slight cupid's bow. These factors are key markers for how people gender identify others as male or female.

As you know, I can't stand AI but here's your Google AI:

"The upper lip is a key gender marker in facial aesthetics, with specific, measurable differences between male and female anatomy. Female upper lips are generally characterized as shorter, fuller, and more defined compared to male lips. In the context of gender-affirming care, shortening and augmenting the upper lip is a primary objective of facial feminization, as it significantly impacts the perception of femininity."

On a better footing here's an academic peer-reviewed article on exactly this point for transgender women:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11345901/

The Background to the piece puts it like this:

'Facial feminization involves a broad array of procedures tailored to transgender women, with lip feminization emerging as a crucial element because of its significant impact on gender expression. Despite its importance, there is a dearth of studies singularly dedicated to lip feminization within this demographic.'

And here's another piece from an admittedly less objective aesthetic site:

'https://imgender.com/en/the-importance-of-lips-in-facial-feminization/'

'The shape and proportions of the lips largely influence whether a face appears more masculine or feminine. Fuller lips with a well-defined cupid's bow, more volume and projection are typically associated with a feminine face. The distance between the upper lip and the nose, along with the folds in this area, are also indicators of femininity.'

I don't doubt it Tills. It's obviously something subconcious, there are probably all sorts of markers when you really analyse it. But humans are so varied there will be outliers in both sexes. I guess it's one more thing you can do I suppose.

I measured mine at roughly 17mm and I have quite full lips so I don't think it is something I need to do anything about, I will need to spend money elsewhere. But I think it is a useful exercise to do some deep analysis of your facial features against things like this as it will help if considering FFS. it's not something that be obvious to anyone.

I am curious what other subtle markers there are too. I look at my face and I don't know how best to improve it. I'm assuming brow work and maybe do something about my hooded eyes but I don't think my brow is massively pronounced. I mean it's hard to work out when you only have yourself as a critic. I'm not well off right now but, as bad as it may sound, I do stand to inherit quite a bit so it is something I will look at in the future.

I might see if i can get my surgeon in Thailand to do it cheap. Its a very quick procedure as 20mm puts me firmly in the outliers. Some women will have more masculine features which accounts for the upper percentile. I definitely fell unlucky with very masculine facial features having such a huge brow bone and this distance very much in the upper percentile.

Charlotte 😻

Quote from: Stottie Girl on April 23, 2026, 01:54:18 AMI am curious what other subtle markers there are too. I look at my face and I don't know how best to improve it.

When I was practicing makeup, I would use FaceApp's Gender Swap feature. Take a picture, then apply the Gender Swap and save it. Then compare the two. It helped me with makeup, but I also noticed my hooded eyes and lower brows. My eyebrows sit on or below the brow ridge. Shaping them would not change that, so I had a "brow lift" and blepharoplasty. The eye surgery fixed the hooded eyes, but the surgeon did not lift my brows as I wanted. He said he would do a Coronal Brow Lift, but after surgery, I found it was a Forehead Reduction, which is not what I asked for.

He was supposed to hide the surgical scar in my hair over the top of my head (ear to ear). Instead, he followed my hairline, leaving visible scars that will require hair restoration to hide. I confronted him about it, and he insisted it was what we had discussed, but it wasn't.  So now I have a visible scar on my forehead, and my brows never got lifted.  < sigh >

Quote from: Lori Dee on April 23, 2026, 10:22:48 AMWhen I was practicing makeup, I would use FaceApp's Gender Swap feature. Take a picture, then apply the Gender Swap and save it. Then compare the two. It helped me with makeup, but I also noticed my hooded eyes and lower brows. My eyebrows sit on or below the brow ridge. Shaping them would not change that, so I had a "brow lift" and blepharoplasty. The eye surgery fixed the hooded eyes, but the surgeon did not lift my brows as I wanted. He said he would do a Coronal Brow Lift, but after surgery, I found it was a Forehead Reduction, which is not what I asked for.

He was supposed to hide the surgical scar in my hair over the top of my head (ear to ear). Instead, he followed my hairline, leaving visible scars that will require hair restoration to hide. I confronted him about it, and he insisted it was what we had discussed, but it wasn't.  So now I have a visible scar on my forehead, and my brows never got lifted.  < sigh >

You see, this is why I want to be absolutely certain what I want to do. Research as much as I can. I would want to get it right as it could be a one shot deal.

To be honest I'm not even sure I want to do anything at all, I don't think that I'm too masculine in the grand scheme of things. I might be able to get away with not doing anything drastic. That would certainly relieve the financial burdon a bit.

Quote from: Stottie Girl on April 23, 2026, 10:41:01 AMTo be honest I'm not even sure I want to do anything at all, I don't think that I'm too masculine in the grand scheme of things. I might be able to get away with not doing anything drastic. That would certainly relieve the financial burdon a bit.

I think you look great.

What you have done with hair and makeup is really good, so I would not suggest any changes. And that is not just one static pic. You have posted a few with different poses and facial expressions, and to me, they really show your personality.

Quote from: Lori Dee on April 23, 2026, 10:46:58 AMI think you look great.

What you have done with hair and makeup is really good, so I would not suggest any changes. And that is not just one static pic. You have posted a few with different poses and facial expressions, and to me, they really show your personality.

Thanks Lori, I wasn't fishing for compliments but I'll take it lol!

I was faffing about last night and decided to video myself instead of taking a static shot and I kind of thought, maybe I might be ok. I think with video you can see expressions, mannerisms and a multitude of angles so it gives a better impression. I'm not going to turn heads particularly but all I want to do is blend in really.

It's my body that I need to work on more than anything else though, need to loose the belly!

Well ive been quoted equiv £1400 to have a lip lift. Seems a lot still but can throw it on another card somewhere. I need all the help i can get with looking feminine so might as well go ahead while im there.

So ill be getting GRS, breast augmentation and lip lift done. Only thing left is hair transplant sometime after

Charlotte 😻

Quote from: Charlotte Kitty on April 23, 2026, 11:12:37 AMWell ive been quoted equiv £1400 to have a lip lift. Seems a lot still but can throw it on another card somewhere. I need all the help i can get with looking feminine so might as well go ahead while im there.

So ill be getting GRS, breast augmentation and lip lift done. Only thing left is hair transplant sometime after

Charlotte 😻

You are so quick at making descisions Charlotte! I'm hopeless! I agonize over things for ages and still make the wrong choice!

£1,400 probably isn't all that dear when you look at the bigger picture. I still wonder if you need it as you face seems to be changing for the better every week. However, if it makes you feel better about yourself then I suppose it is a good investment really.

Quote from: Stottie Girl on April 23, 2026, 11:24:45 AMYou are so quick at making descisions Charlotte! I'm hopeless! I agonize over things for ages and still make the wrong choice!

£1,400 probably isn't all that dear when you look at the bigger picture. I still wonder if you need it as you face seems to be changing for the better every week. However, if it makes you feel better about yourself then I suppose it is a good investment really.

Its just money...nothing else I want to do with it really so might as well. I think impulsivity is part of my psychological conditions too. But i want to do all i can because I'm not naturally feminine. I want to pass as much as possible without makeup. Of course sometimes i use make up, but want it to be my decision, not forced in order to pass. So ive got a tougher task than those that are happy to use makeup regularly. But i really want to make it work. To prove you can be trans and look like a woman in low effort mode.

Charlotte 😻

Quote from: Charlotte Kitty on April 23, 2026, 11:31:18 AMIts just money...nothing else I want to do with it really so might as well.

So true!!!

I deliberately spent my late brother's money buying a property in Scotland because I knew that if I didn't ... why I'd be spending it instead on various feminising things 😀

Quote from: Tills on April 23, 2026, 11:48:26 PMSo true!!!

I deliberately spent my late brother's money buying a property in Scotland because I knew that if I didn't ... why I'd be spending it instead on various feminising things 😀

I'm just doing it whilst my job and pay is decent. This won't last forever so anytime i could be in a position where my disposable income dies. After that there is no chance!

Charlotte 😻

Quote from: Tills on April 23, 2026, 11:48:26 PMSo true!!!

I deliberately spent my late brother's money buying a property in Scotland because I knew that if I didn't ... why I'd be spending it instead on various feminising things 😀

Real estate is almost always a good investment because they aren't making any more. That means the supply is finite. Supply and demand.

Quote from: Lori Dee on April 24, 2026, 10:15:50 AMReal estate is almost always a good investment because they aren't making any more. That means the supply is finite. Supply and demand.

Really? They are building everywhere where I am. It's awfull! Thousands of houses all around my area and loads more to come. It is eating away at the countryside like a cancer in my view.

Quote from: Stottie Girl on April 24, 2026, 10:55:06 AMReally? They are building everywhere where I am. It's awfull! Thousands of houses all around my area and loads more to come. It is eating away at the countryside like a cancer in my view.

It's the land that has value, not what they put on it. Anything they build can be replaced or removed. The land is what is in short supply.

I agree with your sentiment. When I was in high school here, my friend and I would go camping for the weekend on empty land in the foothills. When I came back in the 80s, all of those hills had million-dollar homes on top of them. Now, the city has expanded to the point that those hills are no longer five miles out of town. They are within the city limits.

There is property I have been looking at lately south of here. It is vacant land, zoned for residential but no utilities. For $15,000, I can buy 5.9-acre lots. The road is already in, and the lots surround a cul-de-sac. If I had the cash available, I would buy up a couple of those lots and sit on them for five to ten years, then sell them for a fortune when the city expands that far.

Sadly, that is far outside my budget.

Quote from: Lori Dee on April 24, 2026, 01:14:20 PMIt's the land that has value, not what they put on it. Anything they build can be replaced or removed. The land is what is in short supply.

I agree with your sentiment. When I was in high school here, my friend and I would go camping for the weekend on empty land in the foothills. When I came back in the 80s, all of those hills had million-dollar homes on top of them. Now, the city has expanded to the point that those hills are no longer five miles out of town. They are within the city limits.

There is property I have been looking at lately south of here. It is vacant land, zoned for residential but no utilities. For $15,000, I can buy 5.9-acre lots. The road is already in, and the lots surround a cul-de-sac. If I had the cash available, I would buy up a couple of those lots and sit on them for five to ten years, then sell them for a fortune when the city expands that far.

Sadly, that is far outside my budget.

The thing is they should be building on brownfield sites first before going to build on greenbelt land. The UK is a much smaller place than the US and we should be treasuring our green spaces otherwise it will no longer be a green and pleasant land. The quality of these new homes is awful as well, I know, I used to design them! There's no way I would buy a home newer than mid seventies over here.

I wish I could upload the brilliant patient leaflet showing what Ms Odili will do. It looks so good with such a feminising effect.

I just need to find the money. The procedure is a bit more than I thought it would be because of hospital costs. But I really want this done.

I could get it done in Bangkok for c. £2000 less but then you have the cost of flights and hotels to factor in.

xx