Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone. To be honest this is something I've questioned my entire life. I think the answer I keep coming back to is "create a world where sex and gender are not the same." That's the only thing I can come up with really.

I honestly see no good thing about being transgender other than that, but I was just wondering if anyone else has asked themselves that same question?

I've probably asked myself "why me" more often than "why," especially in the early days of transition where I still wrestled with the guilt and doubt. Honestly, I don't think there has to be an answer beyond "I am" because when you accept that reality, the why becomes less important, IMHO.

Certainly, there are lots of challenges to being a member of the transgender community. But, my god, I've met so many amazing people who have helped me, guided me, comforted me and even given me a swift boot in the tail when I deserved it. Just look at the diverse and vibrant membership here, look at what they do on a daily basis to embrace who they are, to be proud of what they have accomplished and to be a beacon of light for those of us who follow.

Being a part of this amazing community seems to be something wonderful. Something to be proud of irrespective of the why.

Of course, that's just me and YMMV. We all view our lot in life differently but I don't look at the glass as half full or half empty. I drink the goodness I've been given and pour another glass.  :D

That is a good question!

I did a lot of research and talked to many people about this. In talking to my parents, they were concerned that this may have had something to do with how I was raised. Was I shown enough love, praised for my achievements, hassles at school, etc. I have assured them that it has nothing to do with that.

The best explanation I have found came from a group at MIT who were studying genetic factors that influence fetal development in the womb. They did not have definitive answers but their research pointed in a certain direction. I am certain that the current administration has canceled that research since the President claimed the project was making rodents transgender.

This is what I learned: (pass the popcorn).

In the womb, from the time of conception, everyone is essentially female. They have a set of gonads, nipples, and breast tissue. The first thing that develops is the brain and central nervous system, so it develops along that line as well.

They don't know which gene it is, but the belief is that a certain gene decides how sensitive the brain is to testosterone. Genes work like switches. Flipped one way and you get green eyes, flipped the other way and you get blue eyes. (This is an analogy, not exactly how it works). So if this unknown gene is turned on, the brain will begin to develop along the lines that are typical in males. If the switch is off, the brain continues to develop along lines that are typical in females.

This only affects brain development. Keep in mind that hormones do not play a major role until puberty. Here we are talking about development in the womb. After about the ninth week of pregnancy, the gonads develop. If there is a Y chromosome they will descend and form into testes and begin producing testosterone, which in turn, causes secondary characteristics like facial hair. If there is no Y chromosome, the gonads will develop into ovaries and begin producing estrogen and progesterone. That is the only function of the Y chromosome, either testes or no testes.

In most humans, there are 46 chromosomes, 23 from the father and 23 from the mother. The mother always provides an X chromosome but the father can provide either an X or a Y. The unknown gene may have set the brain to develop along the female line while in the presence of a Y chromosome. This is rare, but it is believed to be the reason for the incongruence between brain and body development.

Most people have heard of Down's Syndrome. It is the most common genetic "anomaly" in humans. One out of every 700 births in the U.S. have Down's Syndrome. What causes it? An extra chromosome. So instead of having 46, they have 47 chromosomes and that causes many differences in the way the human body and brain develop. But what is different is how much the person is affected, from living a "normal" life to severe disability.

A similar situation happens with Klinefelter's Syndrome. They also have 47 chromosomes, which results in not just XX or XY, but XXY. Just like in Down's Syndrome, the person can live a happy and "normal" life, or this can have a profound impact on the body and brain.

This does not mean that being transgender is a genetic condition and they can start testing people for nefarious purposes. What it means is that there is an underlying genetic factor, as yet unknown, but that only sets up the possibility of them being transgender. Because not everyone who is transgender experiences gender dysphoria. Of those who do, they all experience it differently in how it is triggered and how severely it is felt. For some, it might be a minor annoyance, while others find it utterly intolerable.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor or scientist. I just read studies and research papers to try to understand what I am going through. And like you, CJ, there are still a lot of unanswered questions. But this is the best explanation I have found so far.

My understanding is that gender identity is determined in the womb by hormone levels.  Many things can influence hormone levels, including the genetics of the fetus and maternal hormone levels.

In my case, I am fairly sure (though there is no way to be certain) that my mother was prescribed DES when she was pregnant with me.  This synthetic estrogen was prescribed in truly massive doses, and is now known to be associated with increased probability of MTF offspring.

That, for me, is the why.  It is not a huge mystery.  Unfortunately, I cannot confirm it, since my mother is no longer alive, but some medical history that my older brother discovered while cleaning out her effects makes it likely that that was the truth.

That answers "why?" as a technical reason.  I don't have an answer for "why?" as a purpose.  I don't believe that purposes are assigned to us.  I believe that a purpose is something for us to decide upon, not something that is sitting waiting to be discovered.

All of the above. Like KathyLauren, I am certain I was exposed in utero to high hormonal levels (puberty was painful with breast buds that became 'the biggest t... I've ever seen on a boy' according to a schoolmate who glimpsed me in the shower). And genetic, as Lori describes in such lucid detail. And, because gender and sex are not, in themselves, such a big deal until cultural norms and social expectations make it so huge it dominates our sense of self. So, I agree with CosmicJoke. And, I think sex and gender, sexuality and libido, might be more of an intersectional spectrum of a multitude of genetic and developmental expressions. Like, April Marie, I try to enjoy the wine I've been served regardless of whose grapes were stomped upon to make it. 

Why? For the same reason we are all here, to explore the meaning of life. It isn't a mathematical equation. It isn't a chemical formula. It can't be quantified or classified. It is an escape from the infinite nothingness from which we came. It is sensation. It is wonder. It is... existence.

Personally, I try not to think about it too much. I'm afraid that if I find the answer, the simulation may end.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

Quote from: CosmicJoke on April 07, 2025, 02:15:26 PMHi everyone. To be honest this is something I've questioned my entire life. I think the answer I keep coming back to is "create a world where sex and gender are not the same." That's the only thing I can come up with really.

I honestly see no good thing about being transgender other than that, but I was just wondering if anyone else has asked themselves that same question?

Good question. But, I'm not in this community to "create a world" or anything like that. People are here in this community for various types of reasons, but certainly not to "create a world." Most people are here because it makes them happy and comfortable in their own skin. I'm in this this community because it makes me smile. It's that simple. :) The "why" part is often private, and varies greatly throughout the community.

I never really questioned it. I know I had a strong feminine side that I was ashamed of having, and spent half my life actively trying to suppress it. I finally felt comfortable enough to embrace being feminine, and it made me happy, so I kept embracing it.

If you read Lori Dees explanation, I give her thanks for mentioning my findings from Dr. Scott Kerlin and his 30+ years of research and his determination of DES SONS. But more than that he has listed hundreds of research paper addresses, public publications both medical and psychological. It was eye opening when I discovered the symptoms. Micro penis, non dropping testicles, deformed heart, high function autism, gender dysphoria. Thanks to his information I am as close to a woman as I can be except having bottom surgery because of my heart problems. I personally believe I am the most blessed human being on earth. The information can be viewed on  https://grad-mentor.com/sexuality/  https://grad-mentor.com/des-research/ https://grad-mentor.com/research-gender-identity/

Never.

Any more than I question why I like chocolate and playing music or why I hate avocado or almonds.  People are varied in all sorts of ways.  It just happens that we divide humanity into two different classes -- "male" and "female" -- and society has decreed that some differences are only permitted if you're in the class "male" and other only if you're in the class "female."  And society goes to great lengths to brainwash you and condition you into only expressing or wanting the differences that are permitted to your class.  And to brainwash you into believing that this division is God-given and part of the structure of the universe.  But it isn't.  And as I grew up and older, I came to feel more and more that it was all a scam.

It happens that a lot of the stuff that feels natural to me, or that I enjoy, are things that society only allows women to have, and a lot of the stuff that men are expected to do or be or have makes me feel awful.  And once I realized that you don't have to feel like "a woman trapped in a man's body" to be trans, I realized that I would feel a lot more comfortable being put into the class "female."  The stuff I liked wouldn't be seen as "weird" and I wouldn't get crap for not doing some of the stuff that I hated.  Fortunately, thanks to feminism, what is acceptable for women to do and be is pretty broad, so I can be more what I want to be if people see me as female.  That is in essence what being "trans" means to me.

You know, nobody ever seems to question why some people like to collect stamps, or watch birds, or run marathons.  We just shrug our shoulders and say, everyone's different.  It's only when it comes to people not fitting into the roles assigned to them based on their gender assignment at birth that people demand explanations and make laws criminalizing their not-fitting-in.  You get the feeling that a lot of people think that someone with an F on their birth certificate not being a "Real Woman" or one with an M not being a "Real Man" will call forth the Zombie Apocalypse.  So it ends up being easier to change the gender letter on one's IDs and then trying to fit into the iron maiden of "Real Woman" or "Real Man" than to just be oneself and let the world go hang.

This is a real thought provoking question.  As think about it, I never ask myself " Why me"? I have asked my self why,"did I do the things I did"? Why on so many occasions did I have the urge to dress in my wifes underwear when she was out of town, and even try on one occasion try her makeup on. Why did I enjoy my parents dress me as a girl for Halloween when I was a kid. And even when after a twenty year marriage ended, I started  to continue to have periods of times of on and off wear I would spend money on womans clothes and love to dress up and only to feel like after a few days it was wrong and throw everything away.  This would happen several times over the next dozen years or so. This is what I often would ask my self. Why am I doing this and keep returning to this. Not why iam I transgenger. I had no idea all thse years what I was really. I just knew these times felt like me. I knew that I felt happy doing this but somthing inside kept me from continuing. Until recently.

Of course! Gender dysphoria has profoundly affected my life for nearly 70 years, and even if I couldn't change things, I longed to understand them. The 20th century offered no solutions, just some opinions from psychologists and sexologists who had done negligible research. Still I searched and absorbed everything I could.

It was a decade into this century before meaningful research outcomes started to appear, and this centred around small but possibly significant areas of our brains. More information came forward about how hormonal variations in the second trimester of pregnancy could cause incongruent brain development, and then some genetic influences were explored.

From what I have learned, I believe we are still in the infancy of research and knowledge into gender incongruence, but the first outcomes very closely fit my life experiences. I knew that as a 4 year old I was not pursuing a sexual fetish as the early reports professed, nor that I was a victim of abuse as pushed by religious 'research'. I knew that whatever was affecting me could not be removed, as I had tried so hard.

I found that academia has stifled learning as 'peer reviewed' papers must rely on references to earlier 'peer reviewed' papers, most of which were horribly wrong! Now, politics is strangling research, and religions and conservatives are publishing papers designed to fulfil their perverted agendas. I don't have that many years left, so I doubt I will learn much more than I currently have, but I am reasonably satisfied on why I am the way I am.

Hugs,

Allie

Hi Everyone

I have written a more in depth reply to Cosmic's post and can be found here in Sarah's Story (https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247190.msg2298533.html#msg2298533).

I'm not transgender, never have been and never will be.  Why?

I have always been a woman and I have lived as such without needing a label.  For over 20 years I simply checked the female box on forms; I just lived my life as a female without expressing my gender unless it was for filling in forms.  I changed my life around in February 1989 because I wanted my body to reflect the woman I always knew I was.  I underwent surgery two years later to align my body with what I knew in my mind as a female.  I have never experienced extreme distress or dysphoria; I simply lived my life as me.

I do not accept the label "transgender" because I believe it is a superficial term similar to old derogatory nicknames like "4 eyes" or "carrot top." I do not need such a label to define my identity.  I have observed that labels are often used to reduce complex identities to a single characteristic and that does not reflect my full experience.

I respect the fact that other community members ask deep questions about why they are who they are.  Cosmic Joke and others have sparked discussion on this topic but I have never asked myself "why" because for me nature and nurture simply worked out.

My research and what I have learned from Susan's Place and from various writings confirm that prenatal hormone exposure plays a pivotal role in brain development.  Research by Swaab and colleagues (2002) has shown that the human brain undergoes sexual differentiation in ways that may not always align perfectly with external genitalia [1] and work by Bao and Swaab (2011) further supports the idea that prenatal hormone exposure is pivotal in this process [2].  Similarly, research by Scott Kerlin, as cited on grad-mentor website, supports the view that prenatal exposure to synthetic hormones such as DES may significantly influence brain development and contribute to gender incongruence [3].

The research confirms that nature is responsible and I accept it unconditionally and I know there is nothing that I can do about it, not that I want to change anything about me, I'm happy as I am.  I live my life as me, with out any labels and that is all there is to it.

Bibliography
[1] Swaab, D.F., Fliers, E., & Partiman, T.S.  (2002).  Sexual differentiation of the human brain: Relating structure to function.  Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 985, 68-84.
[2] Bao, A.-M., & Swaab, D.F.  (2011).  Sexual differentiation of the human brain: Relation to gender identity and transgender phenomena.  Frontiers in Neuroendocrinology, 32(2), 214-226.
[3] Kerlin, S.  (n.d.).  DES Research.  Retrieved from https://grad-mentor.com/des-research/

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator

I agree with Lori this is a thought provoking question!

We've all had different journeys through life and since we travel to different destinations our answers aren't going to reflect that. If we're strongly gender binary then we're likely to be categorically in favour of answers which reinforce the binary that works for us. If we're not strongly gender binary, then the certainties of being binary seem incomprehensible.

One thing a career in medicine taught me was confirmation bias is a powerful thing. We discard suggestions that don't fit with solutions we find easy to accept and live with. Another thing medicine (and life) taught me is that while sometimes things have a single cause, more often there are multiple reasons why they happen.

One reason I don't think genetics or embryology hold the entire answer is I had a relationship with someone who is intersex. She was XY but had congenital androgen insensitivity, so was phenotypically female (in other words, had the body of a woman but was genetically a man). She was brought up gendered female because no-one knew any better and was more or perfectly happy with it. She was slightly tomboyish, but it wasn't a major flavour of her character and I'm attracted to agentic women anyway, which is why I noticed her.

Intersex is so complicated it can't be summed up in a chapter of a textbook even, because there are too many variations and my concept of transgender is it's similar. Very very complex interactions lie at the root of it.

Just as many of us struggle for decades wondering why we're trans, so do some of us need certainty to reinforce our acceptance that we are trans. We do that to stop doubts creeping back in. It's an imperfect mechanism, full of risk because it opens an axis through which people can challenge us, whether intentionally or by accident. I get the reason for it, though.

I'm a supporter of the idea that sex assigned at birth (SAB) and gender are not necessarily the same and the relationship I described above is part of that. If someone who is genetically male and who has (internal) testes can be brought up and be perfectly happy as female, then sex and gender aren't always the same. The WHO altered it's definitions some years back to take into account trans people, but moving away from a position assuming SAB and gender are the same because of the issues it caused for intersex people (about a quarter of a per cent) was a part of why they changed it.

If people want, I'll set out the result of a thirty year analysis of why I'm trans. It's messy, not in the sense it's triggering, or disturbing, but more because there's no single strong prompting factor, or cause. Some of the answers are lost in the early years of my childhood, because like most people, I have few memories from before I was six or seven. From talking to older family members whose memories are clearer I can guess at them.

A fun side story to illustrate how complicated why we're trans may be. My father loved flying and so I grew up around perpetually unreliable light planes of an uncertain age with the smell of Avgas in my nostrils. Cut a long story short, I left home, didn't touch the controls of a plane for two decades, then got the urge, worked up to a private pilot's license, bought a share in a plane (I've done a lot of things) and then one day, instead of a horizon filled with fleecy clouds begging to be beaten up, I saw the word, 'Why?"

I remember my analyst's shoulders slumping when I bounced in announcing we needed to unpack this. They'd already admitted feeling overwhelmed by all the things I was bringing to the table and why I flew was nearly the tipping point for them. It didn't help I saw analysis as a pastime where you discovered intriguing things about yourself, so I was partly to blame there.

As we dissected it out, I flew because first, I was grew up used to being able to fly a plane being normative. Which it's not, but that's how I thought it was as a kid. Second, flying for me was adventure, a masculinity affirming thing. Third, by learning to fly I could compete with my father, who I should add no longer flew by then. At which point we got into Freudian stuff which made me giggle, but I'm not going to discount because like it or not, there's some truth in it.

That's just one stupid hobby in one personality. Imagine all the motives behind something as central as trans in all our personalities? Yet it'll still be fascinating to hear other member's 'why's'.

Quote from: TanyaG on April 09, 2025, 06:35:20 AMthirty year analysis of why I'm trans. It's messy, not in the sense it's triggering, or disturbing, but more because there's no single strong prompting factor, or cause. Some of the answers are lost in the early years

I have memories back to 3 and 4 years old, but gender never entered into the life we lived.  I was just who I was, unknown the it was "wrong" until middle school.  Then the Homophobic society of the '70's.... unable to do anything about it until the late '90's

Honestly... no.

My beliefs are kind of complicated. I don't believe in a deific figure as such, but I do believe the universe itself is sort of sentient. And we are all sparks of that greater thing. And the purpose of life is to experience. To what end, I don't know. But I think everything we do, and are, is to experience that facet of life. No two trans people are the same, as no two cis people are the same. We are all experiencing life differently. And I think that experience is valuable.

I don't think knowing a scientific reason for it would change what being trans has allowed me to experience in my life. So I don't really need to know why I am trans. Only why I need to live my life.

I tend to subscribe more to Nietzche, who said: "He who has a why to live can bear almost any how."

I guess it is relevant to talk about Why it is important for many of us to know Why we are trans. For me, I want to seek the best methods to improve my life, and this is based on knowing why my life was being affected the way it was. I wasn't about to embark on serious and expensive surgeries without good reasons. I couldn't commit to years of electrolysis without having confidence the pain and expense would be justified.

We need to assess where we are at to determine the most effective way forward. Knowing I had a medical condition which was not going to resolve itself, and was making my life miserable, guided me to confidently seek treatment. Where I live, there is only limited assistance from insurance for transition costs, so I had to find upwards of $60,000 AUD to reduce my dysphoria. If it was indicated that my dysphoria was a mental disorder as the APA maintains, I would have sought psychological treatment, but knowing I had a medical issue determined my way forward.

As I have many loved ones in my life, including siblings, children, and grandchildren, I needed to justify the stress I would put them through by me transitioning. It's not all about us. My family have struggled to get used to my identity after 60 years of knowing my former role. My grandchildren are still confused and it is affecting the relationship with my oldest grandson who knew me for 5 years as his grand dad before I transitioned. This year, I believe he is old enough for me to sit down and explain to him what happened to me, and for this I need to know the why's as you can bet this will be his first questions.

Now, I accept that many trans people, like many cis people, are not technical or scientifically minded, and prefer to live in spiritual atmospheres, and this is quite ok, but please also accept many of us don't.

Hugs,

Allie

Quote from: Allie Jayne on April 10, 2025, 05:07:16 PMI guess it is relevant to talk about Why it is important for many of us to know Why we are trans. For me, I want to seek the best methods to improve my life, and this is based on knowing why my life was being affected the way it was. I wasn't about to embark on serious and expensive surgeries without good reasons. I couldn't commit to years of electrolysis without having confidence the pain and expense would be justified.

We need to assess where we are at to determine the most effective way forward. Knowing I had a medical condition which was not going to resolve itself, and was making my life miserable, guided me to confidently seek treatment. Where I live, there is only limited assistance from insurance for transition costs, so I had to find upwards of $60,000 AUD to reduce my dysphoria. If it was indicated that my dysphoria was a mental disorder as the APA maintains, I would have sought psychological treatment, but knowing I had a medical issue determined my way forward.

As I have many loved ones in my life, including siblings, children, and grandchildren, I needed to justify the stress I would put them through by me transitioning. It's not all about us. My family have struggled to get used to my identity after 60 years of knowing my former role. My grandchildren are still confused and it is affecting the relationship with my oldest grandson who knew me for 5 years as his grand dad before I transitioned. This year, I believe he is old enough for me to sit down and explain to him what happened to me, and for this I need to know the why's as you can bet this will be his first questions.

Now, I accept that many trans people, like many cis people, are not technical or scientifically minded, and prefer to live in spiritual atmospheres, and this is quite ok, but please also accept many of us don't.

Hugs,

Allie

No one's experience is more or less valuable. Or should be seen as such. :) This thread is just about opinion. There's no right and wrong. You don't need to defend a position, only state it. That's all it is.

I kind of agree with Allie Jayne because I had no idea what any of this meant at first. So one of my first questions was "How did this happen to me?".

Later, in discussing this with my parents (Trump cultists), they thought it had to do with the way I was raised. And what parent wouldn't feel guilty if possibly something they did messed up their kid?

By understanding the genetic/hormone development that leads to a possibility of being transgender, I was able to assure them that it had nothing to do with them. That made them less defensive and more willing to try to understand and be supportive because it was no one's fault! It helped that my brother is an MD and he confirmed that what I told them is science, not "ideology".

That's fair. If you live in an environment where justification is necessary, then it matters why. More for the people around you, I guess. To stop both them and you hating you.  You have to have something you can wave in their face to say "I am like this and people have proved it."

I've ask same question to my transgender friend, which is she okay and really open to talk about it, I know many people keep judging her decision but as long she okay with it, and lastly she said want to keep enough money to make surgery,

I just support what the best for her and would lend her money if she want to

Sometimes, but these days I'm just fine accepting this is who I am and that I can live a good life despite the challenges that are given to me because of this. So far, science didn't go very far into figuring out why we end up existing as transgender and I'm mostly concerned with how to live well than that.

Quote from: darksou on April 16, 2025, 06:38:43 PMthese days I'm just fine accepting this is who I am and that I can live a good life despite the challenges that are given to me because of this

Looking back, if I was handed two single use magic wands, waving one of which would have made me understand why I was trans and waving the other would make me completely comfortable with being trans, I'd have waved the latter and bypassed the angst.

But it can help some people to understand some of the elements that are in play in their transness as part of becoming comfortable with it. That's one of the foundations of therapy regardless of whether the issue is being trans or not, after all.