Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Following the recent definition of a woman by the UK Supreme Court I wondered if we could have a thread pulling together a list of safe countries for (trans) women? I'm putting trans in brackets simply because I consider myself a woman, and that's half the point of this.

So where is safe? For those of us who have the means, where might we go to try to live?

I know that there are organisations like ILGA who produce a Rainbow Map https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/ but it's not entirely accurate e.g. I would not consider the UK to be any longer a safe country for me. One of the key factors in this in my opinion is self-determination of gender. At the moment in the UK you have to go through an unbelievably complex process and a gatekeeper panel to get gender recognised. And with the new ruling it may mean zilch.

I also want to be aware of the difference between trans friendly places like Thailand and actual legally accepting countries like Spain. For example, yes Thailand may be a great place to be trans but they don't currently recognise trans women as women as such.

So, please, could we post up where we feel is safe and why?

xx

As a start-up, there is Malta.

Pretty awesome set of constitutional protections:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_Malta

xx

The Australian Sex Discrimination Act holds Gender as a protected asset, and this was upheld in the recent case of 'Tickle vs Giggle' where the company Giggle was found to have discriminated against a Trans Woman, Ms Tickle. The centre of the case was focussed on the definition of Woman, but the court held that the terminology has taken a much broader meaning in recent years, and that Ms Tickle's gender had to be recognised.

In general, Australians are pretty laid back, and only a few radicals care about Trans people. Everyone else just lives and lets live. Most places are as safe for Trans people as for Cis people, recognising that there is crime in every society. I have travelled a lot around Australia as a not really passing trans woman and have never been harassed, but I have heard stories of Trans people being harassed at places where alcohol is consumed.

Having said that, we are weeks from a Federal Election, and if the conservatives won power, things could change, though it is not likely as the Conservative Party  suffered a severe backlash at the last election for proposing anti trans laws.

Hugs,

Allie

Thanks so much for this info Allie.

I visited Queensland and NSW last autumn and loved the experience. I was hiking a lot including in the Blue Mountains when I wasn't going out of my way to glam up! I didn't feel judged once. Nor was I misgendered once. In fact, the Aussies were nothing but friendly and warm. I absolutely loved Sydney. The people were so accepting and chilled.

Truly, I now feel an alien in my homeland.

As Allie Jayne pointed out, and Sarah B too, Australia is a good place, and I think New Zealand is too.

Although Thailand does not officially recognize transgender people, there are places within the country that are accepting. I think that is true in any large country. Even Mexico has places that are accepting, while the rest of the country (including government and police) make it risky.

It is a good question to be asking under these circumstances.

@Tills

I just found this article: Best Places for LGBTQ People to Retire Abroad
https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/happy-retirement/best-places-for-lgbtq-people-to-retire-abroad

Top of the list is Spain.
I guess Devlyn already knew that.  ;D

Oh that's really helpful Lori Dee: thank you.

Yep Spain is really on my radar now. Cheap property prices too!

xx

I've ordered my Spanish guide book and am booking a week or two there next month. This is the start of my groundwork. If I go for it I'll learn Spanish. I speak 3 languages fluently but that's not one of them and it would be a great language to learn anyway. My two children speak Spanish so if I buy a property there they'll get an inheritance that might actually be helpful :)

The general consensus seems to be that the coast around the east and south is very LGBTQ friendly. In the interior most of the larger towns and cities seem to be fine too. It's only in the more traditional rural areas that you might encounter some resistance. Generally though the country seems to be extremely trans and also gay friendly.

It's a huge country so I'm going to start off in the north with Girona as that gets good reports, go to Barcelona which I've never visited, and then head west to the University town of Salamanca. Maybe also Valadolid and Leon.

Interesting discussions about this on a forum the name of which is apparently bleeped on here!!

p.s. We need to stick together at the moment like never before and need all the help we can get.

Well, I've just arrived on the overnight sleeper train in bonnie Scotland, one of my favourite countries on the planet.

In terms of the UK, you could argue that it's Scotland which kicked off the row. It was the Scottish Parliament voting for gender self-determination which precipitated the UK Gov't at Westminster to overrule them. And it's a group of Scottish dissenters who have railed against the progressive beliefs up here. Scotland generally is more left wing than south of the border and with differing views. For example, Scotland voted for remaining in the EU.

So might Scotland provide a kind of local safe haven for UK trans and non-binary people? Maybe.

Anyway the Highlands beckon and I want to admire this beautiful scenery :)

xx

Gender identity is a protected category in Canada, both federally and in all provinces.  Canadians in general are tolerant people, despite the recent rise of trumpism in Canadian politics.  We have an election under way right now.  If the vote goes the way I am hoping and the way the polls are trending, Canada will be safe for a few more years.

I have never been discriminated against, and even sideways glances are rare.  Most people in my area, if they don't know what to make of someone, will, by default, be polite.  That's not a bad default.  The vast majority of people I interact with are pleasant.

Quote from: Tills on April 20, 2025, 11:43:13 PMWell, I've just arrived on the overnight sleeper train in bonnie Scotland, one of my favourite countries on the planet.

In terms of the UK, you could argue that it's Scotland which kicked off the row. It was the Scottish Parliament voting for gender self-determination which precipitated the UK Gov't at Westminster to overrule them. And it's a group of Scottish dissenters who have railed against the progressive beliefs up here. Scotland generally is more left wing than south of the border and with differing views. For example, Scotland voted for remaining in the EU.

So might Scotland provide a kind of local safe haven for UK trans and non-binary people? Maybe.

Anyway the Highlands beckon and I want to admire this beautiful scenery :)

xx

Enjoy! Our honeymoon was spent at Croft 103 on the shore of Loch Eriboll near Durness. Beautiful place!

Well I've returned from Scotland which was beautiful as ever. People seem noticeably more chilled and friendly than in the south-east of England.

However, reading around the Scottish Gov't responses to the UK Supreme Court ruling makes me think that I'm naive to assume Scotland provides a safer space for us. Ultimately it falls under UK law and there seems little desire to stand up for [trans] women.

There is no moral or ethical compass to this. It's politicking. They want the votes of the older, less progressive, population who are more liable to support Reform. Transgender people represent a much smaller voting minority.

Sigh. I am beginning to accept the inevitable, that I shall have to emigrate for my safety and wellbeing. The question is, where?!

A question for everyone on here who knows Thailand. Can trans women use female loos without being hassled? Does it make a difference if you are pre or post op?

I can't now recall what it was like when I was out there.

@warlockmaker ?

One thing I like about the Thailand option is that they have a Retirement Visa scheme which isn't too difficult to obtain providing you have c. £20,000

Country	Legal Gender Recognition	Healthcare Access	Social Acceptance	LGBTQ+ Community	Vibe & Notes
Canada	Strong (Self-ID in most provinces)	Free/affordable HRT and surgeries (waitlists)	High, especially in major cities	Very large and organized	Extremely welcoming; Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal are top choices
Spain	Strong (Self-ID law passed 2023)	Universal healthcare covers HRT; surgery partially covered	Growing acceptance, very strong in cities	Vibrant, especially in Madrid & Barcelona	Mediterranean vibe, low cost of living compared to UK
New Zealand	Strong (Self-ID)	Free/low-cost HRT, surgeries partially funded (waitlists)	High acceptance; very trans-aware culture	Good, tight-knit communities	Very peaceful, nature-connected, slower pace
Germany	Strong (New Self-ID law coming into force 2025)	HRT and surgeries mostly covered by public insurance	Growing, varies by region (Berlin, Hamburg very accepting)	Huge scene in Berlin	More bureaucratic but very legally protective
Ireland	Strong (Self-ID since 2015)	HRT free; surgeries out of pocket or abroad often	Mostly positive, especially in Dublin	Small but loving community	English-speaking, easier UK-to-Ireland move
Portugal	Strong (Self-ID law)	Universal healthcare covers HRT; surgery needs private clinics	Very welcoming, relaxed culture	Lisbon and Porto have good LGBTQ+ hubs	Affordable living, warm weather
Argentina	One of the world's best (Gender Identity Law 2012)	Full free coverage of HRT and surgeries	Generally positive, but varies outside cities	Big trans activism scene	Spanish needed; economy unstable but laws very pro-trans

I've been working on this little table for my personal use, and I hope it's helpful.

It's coming together, but I'd recommend double-checking just to be sure.


~Lilis 💗

Canada is likely safe.  I would stay away from some middle eastern countries and some African countries.

Hi Everyone

Which states in the US and countries are safe are listed below:

• The following link provides information which are the Safest Countries. (https://www.asherfergusson.com/lgbtq-travel-safety/)
• The following link provides information which states in US are safe (https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/anti-trans-national-risk-assessment)

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator
@Tills @Lilis

@Lilis and @Sarah B thanks so much.

Interesting link that one Sarah. It runs to 2023 and I would note a marked downturn in the UK over the past 2 years. It was noticeable during the final year of the Conservative Gov't and has, if anything, got significantly worse under Labour. The recent Supreme Court ruling feels like a terminal moment for many of us in the UK.

I hadn't really considered Ireland. Thank you for this reminder Lilis. It's strongly Catholic, of course, which adds a complication. But there is one MASSIVE advantage for a UK citizen in that we can live there permanently without a visa under the Common Travel Area agreement. In fact, currently Ireland sits outside Schengen. Hmmm. Interesting. I love Dublin. Fabulous city but certainly not cheap ;)

The reference to former colonies of the British Empire is interesting!!! Having been indoctrinated in school that we were the best of the best colonoziers I have become increasingly aware of a very different story to tell.

I feel a holiday to Ireland beckoning ...

I think a key factor for me is about people being socially chilled. And especially not being challenged when using the ladies or other female spaces. Without aggression and hostility.

On those counts I no longer feel safe or accepted in the UK.

Oh, I can scrub up and be convincing but why should anyone feel that they have to do that? And under the new ruling even that is no guarantee of acceptance.

Back to the Thailand question. It's a country where I spent a lot of time up until a couple of years ago and I had my two surgeries out there.

I love the place and the people, although I find the heat less appealing as I get older!

I also think that for [trans] women it's a complex situation. Yes, there's acceptance of gender expression and to an extent 'third' gender. But that's not the same as acceptance that a trans woman is a woman. You'll note that in a recent post from @warlockmaker who I respect greatly and who looks like any other [cis] woman. There's considerable nuance about how they do and don't accept trans women as women. Part of that nuance is tied up in Buddhism (which I generally like) because a prevailing attitude exists that trans and gay people are serving penitence due to previous life. There's also a significant sex trade element to the whole kathoey (ladyboy) phenomenon which is, again, not the same thing at all as what I'm about. Although I was once offered a permanent job in a prominent Bangkok ladyboy bar after dancing on stage during a particularly memorable night out with a friend  ;D  :D  :D
It's worth adding that the heavy tourist destinations are for the same reason best avoided although, again, I was wolf-whistled and propositioned by westerners at a bar. Oh my. Those days ;)

Seriously though, I'd like to be in a country which simply accepts me as a woman. That's all I ask. I'm not totally convinced that Thailand quite offers that?

Ireland is a great choice I think. Not only can UK people work there without a visa, after 5 years you can get an Irish passport which will entitle you to live and work throughout the EU. That will give you a lot more options if Ireland goes fash. I don't think it will, but I definitely see the value in having exit pathways.

Do we have people here that have lived in Iceland? 
How is it there for us?


Chrissy

As a tourist I had no issues in Iceland.
There are a number of LGBT+ expressions, such as a rainbow sidewalks there.
It is an interesting place to visit.
Rather cool, not warm temperatures.

There are a number of relaxing geothermal pools there.
You do not need to go to their most famous one, although I did make a stop there.
Now an active volcano keeps that one closed a lot.

Whale watching was fun, dining was fun, all the mountains and hiking were fun.
Many interesting sites, they have.  Lots of waterfalls. 

I wore pants my entire time there, it was not that warm.  Take a jacket.


Chrissy

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on April 28, 2025, 03:09:29 AMIreland is a great choice I think. Not only can UK people work there without a visa, after 5 years you can get an Irish passport which will entitle you to live and work throughout the EU. That will give you a lot more options if Ireland goes fash. I don't think it will, but I definitely see the value in having exit pathways.

I'm really interested in this idea. So much so that I bought a DK guide book to Ireland yesterday :)

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on April 28, 2025, 07:22:23 AMAs a tourist I had no issues in Iceland.
There are a number of LGBT+ expressions, such as a rainbow sidewalks there.
It is an interesting place to visit.
Rather cool, not warm temperatures.

There are a number of relaxing geothermal pools there.
You do not need to go to their most famous one, although I did make a stop there.
Now an active volcano keeps that one closed a lot.

Whale watching was fun, dining was fun, all the mountains and hiking were fun.
Many interesting sites, they have.  Lots of waterfalls. 

I wore pants my entire time there, it was not that warm.  Take a jacket.


Chrissy

I find myself increasingly preferring cold climates as opposed to the tropics where I've lived so much of my life. I was in Iceland in November and can say that I don't think I've ever been so cold as I was in Reykjavik but as I'd flown in the Pacific Ocean I didn't have the gear with me. I loved it there. It was dawn and I dived into a coffee shop and got chatting over hot chocolate with 3 travelling girls from New York. Was just a lovely time. People were so friendly and I found it an easy place to be.



 

I wonder if it's possible to claim refugee status in Ireland as a trans woman fleeing persecution from the UK, following the Supreme Court ruling?

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/how-to-become-a-citizen/become-an-irish-citizen-by-naturalisation/proofs-of-identity-and-residence/

Who can apply for international protection?

You can apply for international protection in Ireland for two separate reasons:

You have a 'well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion', and you cannot seek the protection of your country. This is called refugee status.
You cannot return to your own country because you are at risk of serious harm, but you do not qualify as a refugee. This is called subsidiary protection status.'

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/the-asylum-process-in-ireland/applying-for-refugee-status-in-ireland/#8dcb45

Shall I become a test case?!

(I did once have to claim refugee status under the UNHCR when I fled a coup d'etat. It was the only way I could get back into the UK without any documentation.)

I don't think you would need to claim asylum in Ireland as you can already live and work there. You can even use health and social services with UK passport.

Good point @kira21 ♡♡♡

5 patient years of mostly living there also leads to Irish citizenship and passport.

It's a big step though. I guess the first thing is to go take a look.

xx

Good morning everyone from the UK.

I have been reading around Thailand's approach to transgender rights and they do seem to be making considerable progress, with a new bill likely to be put before parliament. In many ways they are going the opposite direction to the UK. Gender identity recognition looks to be part of the process.

 https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/02/20/lgbtq-rights-push-in-thailand-with-new-gender-identity-law/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_Thailand#

It looks to me that if you are dressed femme you are fine using female facilities, especially if you are post-op.

My problem with the Ireland idea is one of loneliness. I literally know no-one there and if I wanted citizenship I'd have to live there for 5 years, with only about 60 days a year outside the country. That's an awfully long time to be on one's own in a country you don't know.

I've friends in Thailand, including my longest-standing friend (we go back to 7 years old).

It's also a LOT cheaper ;)

Quote from: Tills on May 04, 2025, 12:06:54 AMMy problem with the Ireland idea is one of loneliness. I literally know no-one there and if I wanted citizenship I'd have to live there for 5 years, with only about 60 days a year outside the country. That's an awfully long time to be on one's own in a country you don't know.

I've friends in Thailand, including my longest-standing friend (we go back to 7 years old).

It's also a LOT cheaper ;)

Don't forget the rain..😐 Yes Ireland is very expensive.

Quote from: Jessica 33 on May 04, 2025, 01:26:24 AMDon't forget the rain..😐 Yes Ireland is very expensive.

Dublin is expensive, but most of Ireland has absolutely great prices on real estate.

Quote from: Tills on May 04, 2025, 12:06:54 AMI literally know no-one there and if I wanted citizenship I'd have to live there for 5 years, with only about 60 days a year outside the country. That's an awfully long time to be on one's own in a country you don't know.

You are assuming that you would never meet anyone in five years?

When I moved to South Dakota, I didn't know anyone here. (Trust me, it is like another country.  ;D )
But I met my neighbors, one of whom has become my best friend. I have made friends through people I interact with, from the dentist's office to grocery store clerks. You will interact with people, even if it is only casual business, but the more often it happens, the more you get to know each other.

Never worry about being alone. There are not many places on Earth where you can live in seclusion. Even Danielle has moose, bears, and deer for neighbors.  ;D

Thank you for the lovely comments above everyone.

I've been researching this thoroughly and I'd say things have gone up a notch or two.

For me, I think Thailand would be a last resort. I've lived there quite a bit and although it's not quite as dark as White Lotus Series 3, it's a place where you do need to keep your wits about you.

I'm interested in buying a place in the Republic of Ireland. Ireland appeals for several reasons:

- As a UK citizen I can live there permanently without a visa. This contrasts with, say, Spain where I would only get 90 days in every 180. Spain remains on the table but having to go from there back into a non-Shengen area for half the year would be a pain in the proverbial.

- Real estate in Ireland is, as @Devlyn says, good value especially if you stay away from Dublin.

- It's English-speaking. Not a total deal breaker and I do speak 3 or 4 languages and have lived in several non-English-speaking countries but life is definitely easier in one's mother-tongue. It's not an over-crowded land either. Oh and they drive on the left ;)

- If I were prepared to put in the hard graft and Mother Nature smiles on me, then after 5 years of mostly living there (10 months in every 12) I can apply for Irish citizenship, a passport, and therefore the right to live and travel anywhere in the EU. That's a big plus tick for me.

- The way the UK is headed politically leaves me cold. Since the ruling I have already detected an increase in hostility, deliberate misgendering and legitimisation of hatred. This isn't just for transgender people. The trajectory for the past 10 years has, in my opinion, been an unpleasant one for many minority groups and migrants. I fear that this is only going to get worse especially if Farage's Reform Party get anywhere near power - but their influence is already clear in the media and on current Government policy. By contrast, living in a country like Ireland which has enshrined LGBGT rights in law, including gender self-certification, is incredibly appealing.

- I don't mind the rain. Actually I like rain. I've lived in desert climates and much prefer 'green and pleasant' lands. Whether I'd still be saying that on a miserable grey November day is another matter  :D

So the Emerald Isle seems to be calling to me.

Well, the UK has now plummeted in the ILGA-Europe rankings to the second worst for LGBTQ+ in Western Europe, after only Italy.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/05/14/uk-lgbtq-ilga-europe-ranking-2025/

Here's the ILGA-Europe 2025 update:

https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/

In terms of options for me, I've looked into Spain but I can't readily live there. Since Brexit we are only permitted 90 days in every 180, which is a pain in the proverbial. There is a thing called a non-lucrative visa but you need a monthly income of c. $3000 USD. I have capital rather than income,

I'm left really with a couple of options. One is the Republic of Ireland. The other is Thailand. I'm still mulling this. Ireland is easy for a UK citizen: we can literally just go there for any length of time and after 5 years of residency you can apply for citizenship, which also confers EU citizenship. Real estate is way cheaper than the UK but it's still a chunk of money and I would be pushing tight. A retirement visa in Thailand is straightforward: as long as you can park c. $20000 USD in a Thai bank account you get the visa which is renewable each year.

If it wasn't so far away I would also consider Australia. I really liked it there when I went. The people were so friendly and accepting, and I never got misgendered once even when I was togged up in my hiking gear.

This morning, I posted a news story about Romania passing Poland as the worst place for transgender people to live.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,251093.msg2304067.html#msg2304067

But, the article also states: "Malta, Belgium, and Iceland find themselves on the opposite side of the spectrum."

I don't think I could handle Iceland or Belgium, but Malta? An island nation in the Mediterranean Sea.
That could be promising.

@Tills

Quote from: Tills on May 18, 2025, 10:57:11 PMIn terms of options for me, I've looked into Spain but I can't readily live there. Since Brexit we are only permitted 90 days in every 180, which is a pain in the proverbial. There is a thing called a non-lucrative visa but you need a monthly income of c. $3000 USD. I have capital rather than income,

I'm left really with a couple of options. One is the Republic of Ireland. The other is Thailand. I'm still mulling this. Ireland is easy for a UK citizen: we can literally just go there for any length of time and after 5 years of residency you can apply for citizenship, which also confers EU citizenship. Real estate is way cheaper than the UK but it's still a chunk of money and I would be pushing tight. A retirement visa in Thailand is straightforward: as long as you can park c. $20000 USD in a Thai bank account you get the visa which is renewable each year.

If it wasn't so far away I would also consider Australia. I really liked it there when I went. The people were so friendly and accepting, and I never got misgendered once even when I was togged up in my hiking gear.

Ireland is the way to go for a UK citizen. You can walk right in and after five years you're eligible for an Irish passport. Then the EU is your oyster, including Spain if that's what you want.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Lori Dee on May 18, 2025, 11:37:18 PMThis morning, I posted a news story about Romania passing Poland as the worst place for transgender people to live.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,251093.msg2304067.html#msg2304067

But, the article also states: "Malta, Belgium, and Iceland find themselves on the opposite side of the spectrum."

I don't think I could handle Iceland or Belgium, but Malta? An island nation in the Mediterranean Sea.
That could be promising.

@Tills

Iceland is wild, but OMG is it expensive!

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 19, 2025, 02:06:43 AMIceland is wild, but OMG is it expensive!

Hugs, Devlyn

And brrrrrr.  :icon_yikes:

I thought you were in the  upper Midwest? Cold shouldn't bother you.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 19, 2025, 08:38:57 AMI thought you were in the  upper Midwest? Cold shouldn't bother you.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Hence, the reason I am moving. 30 years of Midwest weather, and I am over it. My mining site got snow last night. OVER IT!  ;D

Yeah I don't mind the cold. In fact, I like it. Apart from how the dry arctic air affects my sinuses, which is something I've encountered every since my facial surgery in 2017.

I thought Iceland was awesome when I went but would I think so through the long dark nights? Probably not, much as I love the northern lights.

The problem I have with Ireland at the moment @Devlyn is that it's going to be so tight for me financially. I've got c. $135,000 USD to buy a place outright (I don't want a loan). Really to get a decent apartment I need another $30,000 USD. The alternative is to get a run-down place to do up but I'm not sure I've got the energy, and besides I'd have to live in it!

I might hold for 12 months and spend some of that time researching places. The reason is that if they go ahead with production of my film, which they keep assuring me IS going to happen, then my available capital would double, or more.

So I might look around Ireland and then go and spend a bit of time in Thailand and Australia without committing to anything. Maybe get a lip lift sorted that I've wanted for a while, and also have a chat with my surgeon Dr Sutin at PAI about the finishing op down below.

xx

Anywhere but the UK right now anyway  :D

The west coast of Ireland (obviously not the waterfront homes) is really affordable. With the benefit of having some actual land, not a British postage stamp sized lot. Look around Galway, Sligo, Donegal, Roscommon.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 19, 2025, 10:09:12 AMThe west coast of Ireland (obviously not the waterfront homes) is really affordable. With the benefit of having some actual land, not a British postage stamp sized lot. Look around Galway, Sligo, Donegal, Roscommon.

Hugs, Devlyn

Yes, thanks. I'm on property alerts and have been trawling through hundreds of them and saving my favourites.

It is indeed very good value compared to the UK but you're still not getting a good property in RoI in is a truly liveable condition for the price I mentioned. There are some awesome rural ones for renovating at that price but they need work.

A good apartment in a town or city is c. $150,000 USD minimum.

And do I really want to be stuck out in a remote part of County Donegal on a bleak rainy winter's day, miles from anywhere?

In both rural and town you have to be extremely careful with the Defective Concrete Block crisis. Thousands of apparently good value homes in the west and north-west of Ireland are affected:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_defective_block_crisis

Are you using daft? Quite a few move in ready houses in the range you're looking at.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 19, 2025, 12:22:35 PMAre you using daft? Quite a few move in ready houses in the range you're looking at.

Hugs, Devlyn

Yes, Daft.

There was a decent 1-bed apartment in Waterford that came on the market y'day that is almost within reach.

xx

Well I've spent quite a lot of time weighing up pros and cons and trying to attune with the universe on a deep level.

Knowing my needs like I (mostly) do I realise that at this stage Ireland would be a step too far. There's no point sitting out there in a flat or house with no money left. It would be much better to wait 12 months and evaluate when the picture is clearer on the film production. The financial benefits from it are so great that it could revolutionise my position, not only meaning a much nicer apartment or house but also cash in the bank as a cushion.

So meantime I intend over-wintering in Thailand and Australia whilst I watch and wait. And, maybe, have my GRS surgery in Bangkok, plus a lip lift that I've wanted for a while.

xx

Quote from: Tills on May 25, 2025, 03:03:21 AMThere's no point sitting out there in a flat or house with no money left.

I came to a similar decision regarding my move. I can afford a nicer place, but I don't need a nicer place. My primary goal is just to re-establish my residency in Colorado so I have the protections of state law. By getting a cheaper place that still meets my needs, I can save up money for other things like surgery, relocation, etc. There is also the possibility that the Orange Man and company will do something that could affect my disability or retirement income. So it is better to sit tight and stash some cash.

Perhaps Iceland.

Quote from: Lori Dee on May 25, 2025, 10:27:21 AMI came to a similar decision regarding my move. I can afford a nicer place, but I don't need a nicer place. My primary goal is just to re-establish my residency in Colorado so I have the protections of state law. By getting a cheaper place that still meets my needs, I can save up money for other things like surgery, relocation, etc. There is also the possibility that the Orange Man and company will do something that could affect my disability or retirement income. So it is better to sit tight and stash some cash.

Lori, I love your way of thinking. I am still stuck in Virginia pondering the right time to relocate. I do want to make my move to Colorado, but am trying to find the right timing. I don't have many possessions left, but the market does not yet favor selling here at the current time. As much as this Administration is not favorable to us, the tax cuts that are proposed will be beneficial if approved. This I am hopeful will permit me some room to move forward with my relocating. I am following you and your relocation with interest as to the area. I don't need much myself, just a place to call home.

@Lori Dee your current situation sounds a whole lot better than mine. That's the problem, I do need to do something

I live in the same house as a woman with whom I used to have a physical relationship. I can't put it any more strongly than that because we were never properly partners. She tolerates my presence and we co-exist on a friendship level. But her daughters (late 20's) hate me being around and have done for a decade. So much so that I am only permitted to exist in the attic at the top of the house. When they are in the house I am literally not allowed down. I feel like Rochester's wife. I've been doing this for a year and everyone I speak to is appalled and telling me to get out.

So I know that I need to find somewhere.

@Annaliese - just seen your reply too.

Weird thing happened this morning.

I went to book a trip to Thailand and just could not do it. Instead I found myself booking a trip to Ireland, which is all now done for a fortnight's time.

I've reflected on what happened and can explain it fairly simply.

I don't want to go and live in Thailand but feel I may have to financially

I want to give Ireland a go but feel I may not be able to financially.

In such circumstances my counsellor would tell me to go with my heart and see if the universe answers. She might.

xx

If you can afford Iceland, consider it.

Houses near the active volcano may be deeply discounted now.
But I would stay far away from that thing. 

Quote from: Tills on May 26, 2025, 08:43:50 AM@Lori Dee your current situation sounds a whole lot better than mine. That's the problem, I do need to do something

I live in the same house as a woman with whom I used to have a physical relationship. I can't put it any more strongly than that because we were never properly partners. She tolerates my presence and we co-exist on a friendship level. But her daughters (late 20's) hate me being around and have done for a decade. So much so that I am only permitted to exist in the attic at the top of the house. When they are in the house I am literally not allowed down. I feel like Rochester's wife. I've been doing this for a year and everyone I speak to is appalled and telling me to get out.

So I know that I need to find somewhere.

@Annaliese - just seen your reply too.

Tillis, that's not a way to live. I can understand why you need to relocate.  I would say I'm fortunate that I live by myself,  it has tons of advantages,  but it has alot of disadvantages as well. I find myself in isolation at times. Now more than ever. It's like which is best. I am searching out for community in my area, but so far no luck. But I still search.

Being tied to this place has It's drawbacks.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on May 26, 2025, 08:50:36 AMIf you can afford Iceland, consider it.

Houses near the active volcano may be deeply discounted now.
But I would stay far away from that thing. 

But I don't think you can just go and live in Iceland as a UK citizen? You have to get residency.

And although I don't mind the cold and I love the northern lights, it's very dark in winter.

I think the point @Devlyn and others have been making is that a UK citizen is lucky enough to be able to live in Ireland without any questions being asked. And if you stick it out then after 5 years you can apply for citizenship, which confers an Irish passport. Meaning you could then live anywhere in the EU, or travel in the EU for more than 90 days in every 180.

Quote from: Tills on May 26, 2025, 08:57:06 AMBut I don't think you can just go and live in Iceland as a UK citizen? You have to get residency.

And although I don't mind the cold and I love the northern lights, it's very dark in winter.

I think the point @Devlyn and others have been making is that a UK citizen is lucky enough to be able to live in Ireland without any questions being asked. And if you stick it out then after 5 years you can apply for citizenship, which confers an Irish passport. Meaning you could then live anywhere in the EU, or travel in the EU for more than 90 days in every 180.

I do not know about the requirements to stay there as a long term resident.

Chrissy

Quote from: Tills on May 26, 2025, 08:57:06 AMBut I don't think you can just go and live in Iceland as a UK citizen? You have to get residency.

And although I don't mind the cold and I love the northern lights, it's very dark in winter.

I think the point @Devlyn and others have been making is that a UK citizen is lucky enough to be able to live in Ireland without any questions being asked. And if you stick it out then after 5 years you can apply for citizenship, which confers an Irish passport. Meaning you could then live anywhere in the EU, or travel in the EU for more than 90 days in every 180.

If you do a cash buy in Ireland, your outgoings will be low. Water is free there, and the council tax is about 10% of UK rates.

Hugs, Devlyn

As I was reading back threads about my surgeon in Thailand I came across an interesting comment by @warlockmaker

"There's full acceptance. No one cares in Bangkok. It's a gender fluid community. I get hit on in clubs by both men and women."

Relating this to something @TanyaG said, you can have all the legislation in place in a country, but that doesn't necessarily mean the people will take you in their stride. You might still get stared at and be, essentially, different. In Thailand in general, and certainly in Bangkok, you will be rubbing bosoms with every shade of gender expression and no one bats an eyelid.

Legislation and Attitudes are not necessarily in sync.

I do think the UK is more hostile now, but that's mainly amongst 50+ yr olds and generally men.

xx

p.s. Having had dinner with @warlockmaker I can attest to her being beautiful. This isn't, or shouldn't, be about looks of course but there's also a tradition in Thailand of women making a bit of an effort with their appearance. Even to the point that they will often put on makeup before working out! And generally if you dress female then that's how you will be treated: as a woman, regardless of whether you look like Jodie Comer or Mrs Shrek.

Those of you who follow sport may be aware that there's a massive row going on during this year's French Open. Basically the organisers keep scheduling men to play in the prime-time evening slot. Not a single women's match. This is despite the fact that a game like today's Rybakina vs Swiatek could be a cracker.

https://www.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/13377476/french-open-jessica-pegula-criticises-schedule-as-players-hit-out-at-lack-of-womens-night-matches

And this isn't new. It has been like this for some years. I do love France but this is very typical.

It's a little reminder, that you can have all the protection in place at a legal level masking massive prejudice at a practical one.

When I started this thread with the header 'Which Countries are Safe ...?' I hadn't expected this nuance to emerge but I think it's important. Which counts for more? A legally protective country, or one in which people are friendly, chilled, and open? Ideally both of course.

Prejudices can be deeply ingrained and eventually the politicians may even roll back legislation in order to look after their votes at the ballot box: look at the UK as a case in point.


@TanyaG

Quote from: Tills on June 01, 2025, 12:05:08 AMWhen I started this thread with the header 'Which Countries are Safe ...?' I hadn't expected this nuance to emerge but I think it's important. Which counts for more? A legally protective country, or one in which people are friendly, chilled, and open? Ideally both of course.

I had a French girlfriend who was schooled in Britain because her parents didn't want her to absorb the values their own culture had toward women. To paraphrase how she put it, French women must express themselves through gender, because so many other options are closed to them, thanks to France being such a conservative society. The further south you go in France the worse it gets and she was born in the Camargue.

You're right that many countries appear tolerant if you read their laws, but the reality may be very different in terms of lived experience. Pakistan is the perfect case, because as far as trans rights are concerned, they have all the laws in place the international courts require, but it's just window dressing. Zero effort is made to implement them. France, Spain and Italy all have laws in place to protect women's rights, but attitudinally the three countries are twenty years behind Britain, as recent court cases have shown.

Which is not to say that in deeply conservative countries you can't find pockets of liberalism. Germany is very conservative, Berlin is very liberal; Spain is super conservative, Barcelona is not; Montana is MAGA but Bozeman is the reverse; Italy is borderline Fascist but Firenze is liberal; France you've already highlighted. University cities tend to be liberal regardles of the culture of the area surrounding them in my experience.

So I've always taken charts and scoring systems for LGBTQ friendliness with a pinch of salt, because a nation's laws may only be there because politicians needed to pass them to tick a box and get something else. The lived experience may be very different and ultimately it is attitudes (which can't be legislated) that determine tolerance. So for my money, it's more useful knowing that the people in a particular town or city are trans tolerant than anything else. Which makes the communication of experience of people here more valuable than anything else.

You've made really excellent points on this subject @TanyaG I was initially resistant but you have highlighted something so important. It is easy to think the grass is greener, without understanding the nuances involved in a country, or within countries as, again, you've just highlighted.

The Chevron Championship April 24-27
NBC, GOLF Channel, Peacock

U.S. Women's Open presented by Ally May 29 – June 1
NBC, USA Network, Peacock

NBC is now broadcasting women's golf in the Prime Time slot for men's golf!  Previously it was only available via paid subscriptions. This is good because most men need to see how professional women play golf as that is as good as they can possibly play.  The men are too good and only an elite few can do what they do.

This is such a useful thread, thank you for starting it! If people can share their lived experience of particular places here, others will be able to make a judgment based on them and everyone will benefit!

A discussion over here https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,251259

is actually making me less likely to settle in Thailand.

This is what I've mentioned previously and which concerns me. Yes, there's a very chilled-out vibe towards LGBTQ+ in Thailand. But you don't have the same legal protections in place as, say, Ireland and crucially for me you're not necessarily treated as a woman. I don't want to be misgendered as 'third gender.' I'm a woman. And that's the protection I'd get in Ireland.

So I'm off to Thailand next week for a consultation with my surgeon. I'll probably be out there for just a week and then I'll head to Ireland. It will be good to make a side-by-side comparison with both still fresh.

xx

Quote from: Tills on June 06, 2025, 12:05:12 AMBut you don't have the same legal protections in place as, say, Ireland and crucially for me you're not necessarily treated as a woman. I don't want to be misgendered as 'third gender.'

Factors like this will always finesse people's decisions because we are all so different and what makes a country perfect for one of us will be a poor fit for someone else. But the strength of this thread is that by highlighting which countries work for some of us and why, others will be able to make informed decisions and I think that's win-win. So power to you.

Well ... here I am. But where?

Up until a week ago I was all set to fly to Thailand. Flights, hotels, and transfers were all booked. And I was due for a consultation with Dr Sutin this Thursday.

But some sort of flu/covid lurgy struck and there was no way a long haul flight would have been advisable.

Anyway, I managed to recoup nearly all of my booking costs and I've re-scheduled my Emirates flight to the autumn for a modest fee.

So I decided instead to take a short flight over to Ireland and spend a week or two looking around, as this was the other country on my radar.

So, yes, I am in Ireland! I flew into the West of Ireland airport near Knock.

First impressions are:

1. The people are incredibly friendly. You can instantly see coming from the UK that attitudes are very different. So much more chilled and accepting of all myriads of people. It's evident that it is protective of trans rights. And that's not just about attitudes. It is enshrined in law: an important point that others on this forum have stressed.

2. It's so GREEN!! It's not called The Emerald Isle for nothing.

@Devlyn is right: it would be sooooooooooo easy for someone from the UK to come and live here. And, my, the countryside is beautiful. You can get really cheap properties if you are happy to live rurally.

I'm slightly wary of heading down the line which says that this lurgy descended on me in order to switch the points and divert me from Thailand to Ireland.

And yet ...

xx

Ireland is fabulous!

Quote from: Tills on June 16, 2025, 07:32:18 AMIreland is fabulous!

Nice, thanks for the feedback, Tills! 💓🌷


~ Lilis 🫂

I know Cork and the west best, having made many visits over the years. I love Ireland too, most people are fun and reasonably tolerant, but like anywhere it has its moments and being so rural and religious there are some remarkably conservative people there too. In the cities it helps  the population tends to be young and there's music everywhere which always seems to help make folk more empathic.

Ireland is the only place in the world where it takes longer to pour a pint of beer than it does to prepare a meal. It positively encourages eccentricity which is possibly why it's relatively trans friendly? For instance, you can still find roads where the distances are in miles and the speed limits are in km, and I know of at least one village where the name is spelled different ways on the signs at either end. There's endless fun to be had.

But, it's also the place where we had a picnic on an island in the middle of one of the lakes and found an angler who was clearly trying to avoid us. In the end we asked him over and found him curiously reluctant to say what he did. In a flash, my friend intuited what the problem was and said, 'Don't worry, if you're PSNI, we'll bring you no harm.' The angler looked like a weight had been lifted from his shoulders and we had lunch together.

Afterward my friend, who'd lived in Eire for many years, said, 'I was born in the North and he'll have placed me the instant I opened my mouth. There'll have been times in that man's life when his next heartbeat will have depended on getting it right. Welcome to our splintered land and it's inability to leave its past where it belongs.'

By and large it's possible to steer clear of the more conservative folk though and in rural communities they usually announce themselves. With so many young Irish people having worked in the UK there's a bond we broke by leaving the EU but the place has a lot to recommend it.

One last thing. If it's raining, it's a 'soft day'. If it's bucketing down, it's a 'grand soft day', and if there's a monsoon, it's 'a grand soft day, thank god'. They don't call it the Emerald Isle for nothing!

One other thing. Do not EVER ask for a glass of whisky in a private household in Eire. You are quite likely to get exactly that, a glass full of whisky. I've had it happen to me three times now and it's much more likely to happen the further south you go, the point of no return apparentely being a line level with Cashel :)

Quote from: TanyaG on June 16, 2025, 01:46:21 PMOne other thing. Do not EVER ask for a glass of whisky in a private household in Eire. You are quite likely to get exactly that, a glass full of whisky. I've had it happen to me three times now and it's much more likely to happen the further south you go, the point of no return apparentely being a line level with Cashel :)

I don't drink alcohol and haven't for over six years so I shan't ...

When were you last in Ireland Tanya?

xx

For everyone looking at this thread, I'll write-up some reflections when I come to the end of this tour. For now, I merely wanted to announce how fabulous the country is  :D

xx

Quote from: Tills on June 16, 2025, 02:31:40 PMWhen were you last in Ireland Tanya?

Just before Covid. We first visited forty years ago and there have been many changes, but it's kept its charm somehow!

These Are The Most LGBTQ-Friendly Countries In The World In 2025
Travel & Leisure Magazine - Sneha Chakraborty Published: Jun 16, 2025 02:00 PM HKT
Link to Article with LGBTQ+ Events (https://www.travelandleisureasia.com/hk/trips/these-are-the-most-lgbtq-friendly-countries-in-the-world-in-2025/)

To help determine the safest destinations for LGBTQ+ travellers, German portal Spartacus — an international gay travel guide that provides resources on queer travel safety — has been publishing the Gay Travel Index since 2012. The 2025 edition compared 215 countries and territories based on the rights, protections, and social acceptance of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, and queer individuals in each destination. This year's report identified Canada, Iceland, Malta, Portugal, and Spain as the top-scoring and therefore safest destinations for LGBTQ+ travellers, all achieving the maximum possible points.

To get a copy of the 2025 Gay Travel Index ranking for each country and each state within the U.S. directly from Spartacus (in PDF format), CLICK HERE. (https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/gaytravelindex.pdf).

Quote from: TanyaG on June 01, 2025, 02:57:11 AMMontana is MAGA but Bozeman is the reverse;

Montana is an infant in the MAGA world (fare thee well Jon Tester). And Bozeman rocks. But Missoula, also known as Zoo Town, is the ONLY place in Montana where you can safely rock a dress without glancing over your shoulder.

Quote from: TanyaG on June 16, 2025, 01:40:32 PMif you're PSNI,

My parents claim I'm Scottish, which I understand is the same as being Irish without any of the emerald stuff. So, Tanya, knowing I was born and raised in Montana, what is PSNI?

Quote from: Mrs. Oliphant on June 16, 2025, 07:39:58 PMMy parents claim I'm Scottish, which I understand is the same as being Irish without any of the emerald stuff. So, Tanya, knowing I was born and raised in Montana, what is PSNI?

Police Service of Northern Ireland. It's a bit old hat now since The Good Friday Agreement between the two countries. The Troubles, as they were euphemistically termed, are a thing of the past.

I'm sure everyone knows but just in case: Northern Ireland is a separate country, predominantly Protestant, and is part of the United Kingdom.

Ireland, sometimes but unnecessarily called The Republic of Ireland (e.g. by soccer's FIFA), is a separate country which is part of the EU but not part of the Schengen Agreement of free movement. It's sometimes called Eire which is the Irish word for Ireland, but most Irish these days prefer to call it just Ireland. It's Catholic but surprisingly liberal e.g. Ireland was the first country in the world to allow same-sex marriage following a public vote.

There's a 'soft' border between the two countries but it's highly convoluted when it comes to trade because of the EU's trade bloc.

What @Devlyn and others have highlighted earlier in this thread and elsewhere is that there's a Common Travel Area between Ireland and the UK, which means citizens of either country can freely travel between the two without any visa restrictions and they can live in either country without any other legal requirements.

If you wish to, then after 5 years of mostly continuous residence in Ireland you can apply for citizenship and be granted an Irish passport. You can renounce UK citizenship if you wish or keep dual.

More later. I'm having a wonderful tour of the country, chatting to people (in that way which only solo travel really makes possible), sightseeing, and above all visiting potential places to settle and live.

Love it: Gorgeous country. Wonderful people.

xx

xx

Quote from: Tills on June 16, 2025, 11:04:02 PMPolice Service of Northern Ireland. It's a bit old hat now since The Good Friday Agreement between the two countries. The Troubles, as they were euphemistically termed, are a thing of the past.

The Troubles are over in one way but they're not in another. I love the place, but over the decades have learned to see it through Irish eyes. It's a land where there are constant reminders of the division, in the form of the many ruins left from the disastrous Civil War that followed the War of Independence. The split that followed is reflected yet in Irish politics and while the border remains, the tension will always be there.

It's a quiet thing, barely visible at first, but the better you get to know Ireland, the more you'll begin to see it. We were in a bar a few years ago in Cork, still a hotbed of Republicanism, as the south and west tends to be, and our friend's wife said, 'People are looking at you because you're singing along.' I was, 'Why?' and she said, 'Because you're Brits and they don't expect you to know the words, let alone repeat them!' In the end we were invited on the stage by the band and I had to admit to the crowd we'd not being doing it consciously, but we got a cheer all the same.

In the south, it's still the case in some areas that catholic farmers won't work with protestant ones and vice versa. This thing runs deep, but once you're aware of it, it's easy to stay out of it.

Two films are worth seeing by anyone who wants to visit Ireland. The first, which absolutely captures the spirit of the old border, is Eat the Peach. It's sweet and funny and we've seen it three times, I'll not spoil it by spilling the plot. The other, more serious, is The Wind that Shakes the Barley, which captures the essence of what the War of Independence and the Civil War did to Ireland.

If anyone wants to read a book about what Ireland was like not that long ago, J.G. Farrell's Troubles is an absolute must read. It's not serious and it's extraordinarily well written. If the content at times seem unbelievable, there is hardly anything in it that I haven't seen in Ireland at one time or another. It's the most magical piece of writing.

I think, if I may say so Tanya, that you may be rather out of date. I know you have built a career out of conciliation between factions but one can get stuck in the mindset that there are factions to reconcile. If you view a world through that lens then you'll see it.

I first came to Ireland many years ago and things are entirely different now. I don't want anyone coming to this thread with a possible view of looking to settle in Ireland to be put off by something that was true thirty years ago, or more.

I'll write-up thoughts for people when I've come to the end of my tour. A phrase that used to have another meaning in these parts.

xx

Quote from: Tills on June 17, 2025, 08:58:00 AMI think, if I may say so Tanya, that you may be rather out of date. I know you have a career built out of conciliation between factions but one can get stuck in the mindset that there are factions to reconcile. If you view a world through that lens then you'll see it.

I'm sure it depends where you go and what company you keep, Tills, but we were last there just before Covid and the place hasn't changed that much since. As our friend says, you could live there a long time as an outsider and never be aware of it. It's not something that is likely to cause anyone serious problems but an awareness of the country's conflicted past consequent on British settlement is worth respecting, if that makes sense.

Quote from: TanyaG on June 17, 2025, 09:06:11 AMI'm sure it depends where you go and what company you keep, Tills, but we were last there just before Covid and the place hasn't changed that much since. As our friend says, you could live there a long time as an outsider and never be aware of it. It's not something that is likely to cause anyone serious problems but an awareness of the country's conflicted past consequent on British settlement is worth respecting, if that makes sense.

It does Tanya.

I'm sure you don't mean it to sound condescending though, but it all does a tad. You know, you're the insider with the insight kind of thing.

I've spent all my life nomadically around the world and wouldn't presume to say I knew a country better than anyone else, even those whose languages I speak fluently, nor that I had insights that others haven't.

I'm primarily concerned that no one is put off Ireland by erroneous and esoteric "information". There may be reasons for people on this forum not to consider settling here but the old Troubles isn't one of them. And nor is it anything like the conservative country you have implied. It's far more progressive on so many levels than the UK.

Anyway I just arrived in Dublin on my multi-circular routes around the country. I came here once to be interviewed for a senior lectureship at Trinity College.

Peace

xx

Quote from: Tills on June 17, 2025, 11:12:35 AMI'm sure you don't mean it to sound condescending though, but it all does a tad. You know, you're the insider with the insight kind of thing.

Not so, and very far from my intention, but I can no more stop you interpreting it as you wish, Tills, than I can influence the rate at which you breathe.

Recent posts had all the trappings and tensions of a philosophical debate. I loved it! Especially the good natured ribbing. Okay. Well, ribbing at any rate. But most informative and enlightening. I learned so much about Ireland in a few posts. Thanks Tills and Tanya.

Hi Everyone

There are now 3 web sites that list which places are safe.  The first two have been listed previously.

Which states in the US and countries are safe are listed below:

• The following link provides information which are the Safest Countries. (https://www.asherfergusson.com/lgbtq-travel-safety/)
• The following link provides information which states in US are safe (https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/anti-trans-national-risk-assessment)
• Another safe site information Snapshot: LGBTQ Equality by State (https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps)

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator

Thanks Sarah: that's really great. Excellent links for proper objective analysis

I'm still travelling solo through Ireland, using local and national transport (buses, trams, trains) rather than any tourist ones.

More to come when I get back to the UK, which I'm partly dreading.  Mine will be an anecdotal report but I'll try and separate some objective observations from my own preferences.

More anon.

xx

A bit of snooping around has taught me that my family hails from the Cork county and Galway areas.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Tills on June 22, 2025, 10:17:26 AMMore anon.

I look forward to your impressions and observations. Safe travels and just have fun.

Quote from: Devlyn on June 22, 2025, 10:34:17 AMA bit of snooping around has taught me that my family hails from the Cork county and Galway areas.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

I'm looking out over Galway Bay at this very moment :)

According to a YouTube video creator, here is what they as a couple found it cost per month in US Dollars to live in a truly USA upper middle class setting:


$7,300 USA
$2,100 Vietnam
$2,400 Thailand
$2,900 Mexico
$3,800 Italy

For the USA they were living in the Atlanta, GA area.

They did mention it is very possible to live on less money per month but they stressed their USA upper middle class lifestyle.

They did say that Thailand is very modern.  In fact, like the USA but far more modern.


Chrissy

IRELAND REPORT

Summary

Ireland is a very easy country for a trans person. Just make sure you have other reasons for being there.

Methodology

I spent a fortnight travelling around the country. I avoided all tourist transport, instead exclusively using local trains, buses, and trams. I went solo and chatted to Irish people, not tourists.

It was ethnographically qualitative fieldwork and therefore more subjective.

I have not included References below as this is not pretending to be an article for academic publication ;)  Please let me know if you would like to see them.

Results

I arrived during Pride month and this may have contributed to the prominent displays of LGBTQ+ support in evidence. One coffee shop had no fewer than 20 Pride flags on display. There was no part of Ireland where this was not the case, even in the more rural remote areas, which surprised me.
People's attitudes were noticeably friendly. Coming from the UK the lack of hostility was a stark contrast. This was not only towards LGBTQ+ but generally. It is a welcoming, friendly, and relaxed nation.
There was no noticeable difference in attitudes amongst older people, nor really in the more remote rural areas.

Conversely, the more tourist hubs have a greater influx of non-LGBTQ+ friendly overseas visitors and these brought some increase in a sense of being noticed. You should also be aware that in some hotels where overseas staff are present you may encounter less trans-friendly attitudes. This is not so much the case in Dublin because it is such a young and progressive city but in other obvious tourist destinations out west this may be a factor to bear in mind. In the main this probably only affects the summer months anyway.
Before I visited Ireland I had come to believe that the attitudes of people mattered as much as the legal protections. During my visit I realised that this is not true, as others on here have equally pointed out. The fact that as a trans person you are legally protected, for example in the use of female spaces, is very important. You cannot be legally challenged. You are legally protected to be you. I became very thankful about this and relaxed to the point where I was no longer thinking about the matter.

Transphobia and homophobia are outlawed and any such abuse is a criminal offence, punishable by up to 5 years in prison. You really are protected.


Other Comments about Ireland

Ireland is very green. It is ringed at the edges by ranges of hills and mountains: south of Dublin in the Wicklow area and then on around to the south-west beyond Killarney and up the Atlantic coast as far as Donegal at the top of the country.
Inside this ring of uplands, the central basin is predominantly flat with gentle undulations.
There are some very pretty towns in the centre, one thinks of somewhere like Carrick-on-Shannon or Westport, but there is also a lot of poverty relative to a country like the UK. There are a significant number of run-down and derelict houses in town centres and rural areas. Everywhere you will see the effects of rain and damp on the buildings. There has been a significant concrete scandal with defective materials, especially in the north and north-west, something to bear in mind if you are considering property purchase.

Transport infrastructure is good. I decided to use West of Ireland Airport (NOC) near Knock for strategic reasons which was in a beautiful rural setting. Other international airports are Dublin, Cork, and Shannon.

There is an extensive bus network and these run efficiently and well. Legroom is noticeably cramped which you should bear in mind for longer journeys.

Trains are modern and excellent but be aware that with limited carriages they can get fully booked. You must buy a ticket in advance anyway. The Irish Rail website is good.

The country is not known as The Emerald Isle for nothing. The centre of the country has many wetlands and peat bogs. A lot of farming out west is pastoral, especially sheep in small fields enclosed by dry stone walling. I was surprised at how many trees there are, having read that the forests were cut down. Having seen the way in which the Caledonian forests of Scotland were decimated I feared something similar and one widely-quoted figure claims that only 11% of the country is covered by trees but this is highly misleading. The figure refers to forests rather than trees. The lush supportive climate means self-seeding has occurred widely and the countryside is now covered with trees, admittedly of often young growth. They are mainly deciduous and one person said to me that it may look beautiful now but in winter 'it looks desolate'. There are some areas of the coast which do not support tree growth e.g. the Burren in County Clare. But if you like trees then you will find rural Ireland to your taste.

The country is remarkably free of litter, compared to say the UK. I counted two pieces of litter all fortnight. This seems to be brought about through a combination of education, public awareness, and hefty fines.

Ireland's weather is classified as 'maritime temperate'. It is mild for its latitude, warmed by the Gulf Stream and the North Atlantic Drift. With predominantly Atlantic westerlies, rainfall is high, especially in the west and north. In the east around Dublin annual precipitation is 750-1000 mm per annum. In some parts of the west this figure doubles and some of the mountains receive up to 3000 mm a year. Even in the east there are 150 wet days per annum. In the west this figure is closer to 225. That means you can expect 2 in every 3 days to contain some rain.
Temperatures are mild throughout without either extremes of heat or cold. However, air frosts are still common in winter.

Ireland is a member of the European Union and the currency is the Euro. Support for EU membership remains high with over 2/3rds of people continuing to support membership post-Brexit (Britain's exit from the EU). Some commentators have suggested that Ireland is the most pro-EU country of the 27 member States. This may be because, in general, Ireland has benefited from EU economic support. However, EU flags were not prominent and there are a few ongoing arguments with Brussels e.g. over the widespread use of peat for winter fuel and over the defective concrete. Regional flags were more common than Irish ones e.g. yellow and blue flags throughout County Clare and County Tipperary.

Ireland is not a participant in the Schengen agreement of free movement. This is how a Common Travel Area is allowed to exist between Ireland and the UK, which is no longer a member of the EU and which was also never part of Schengen. This means that as a UK citizen you can travel and live in Ireland freely, and vice-versa. However your passport is still checked on arrival and exit. You are able to access the Irish health service, and vice-versa.
If you so wish then after approximately 5 years of mostly continuous living you may be eligible to apply for Irish citizenship (please see Irish Govt guidelines on this). As an Irish citizen you would be eligible to travel and live anywhere in the EU.

The Irish Government also has citizenship eligibility criteria for those who can prove close Irish descent. Please see their advice and rules about this.

Ireland is the correct name for the country and Irish is the language. There is no need to attach the word 'Republic,' and most people don't use the Gaelic equivalents. The main languages are English and Irish (Gaeilge). The latter is widely used e.g. in public announcements on trains and also especially out west and in Donegal.

Northern Ireland is a separate country and is part of the United Kingdom. There is a soft border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, which also allows a (convoluted) trade system to exist without breaching EU regulations. Whether there will be a united Ireland is an ongoing but currently muted debate. Younger people tend to be in favour. One older man in the south told me that he was quite happy to leave things as they are: he didn't want the north messing things up.

Ireland is sparsely populated relative to the UK: 77 per square km compared to 426 in England, so roughly a sixth of the density. This was very noticeable to me.

Sport is dominated by Hurling, Gaelic football, Rugby Union, and Soccer, as well as horse racing, and golf.

Catholicism is very noticeable, especially in the rural areas. There are numerous mini-shrines and statues as well as graveyards: cremation rates are only 20% compared to 75% in England and Wales. However, a lot of the religious belief is of a cultural and superstitious nature rather than, say, evangelical conversion fervour. Outsiders may not at first understand this relaxed attitude. It helps explain why the country is at the same time so progressive on many issues: Ireland was the first country in the world to enact same-sex marriage by a public vote in 2015. It took a long time to overturn the Catholic Church's abortion restrictions, but this too was made by public vote in 2018 with a 2/3rds majority in favour.

Conclusion

Much of this report has not been about trans issues per se. And there's a reason for that.

In the 2003 film Finding Nemo [spoiler alert] the inhabitants of the fish tank spend their lives planning how to escape the evil dentist, and especially his niece Darla. Right at the very end of the film, after the closing credits, you see all the fish bobbing outside in the harbour. Their plan has worked: they escaped.
But they're still stuck in the bags. They had spent their entire time planning how to escape, not what came next.

My point is this: for someone living in the UK, or the US, it is very understandable to allow trans issues to dominate your life. The present environment is so toxic that it easily takes over. It's not just the legalities. It's also the attitudes: outright hostility has become very noticeable; and people now feel legitimized in this. It's worth pointing out that this is part of a wider swing to the Right in both the UK and the US, with the Reform party now leading in all the UK national opinion polls: something which would see Donald Trump's friend Nigel Farage become next UK Prime Minister.

Go to Ireland and you may be thinking about trans issues on Day 1 but I virtually guarantee that by Day 2 you will forget about them. In friendly legal Ireland they, literally, cease to be a concern. You are protected by law and people's attitudes are non-hostile. You can get on and live your life.

So if you intend to move to Ireland just be sure that you have considered the Day 2 Nemo question: 'Now What?'

It's not just about escaping a toxic hostile country. It's about what comes next.

xx

From what I've heard about Ireland is that yes it's very much trans safe and friendly but that's pretty much where it ends. That the health care system and gov doesn't care if you transition as long as you pay for it yourself.

I could be wrong but that's what I've heard.

Tills,

Thank you for this report. It is always helpful to get observations from someone with "boots on the ground". Thank you for all the details, and I am happy you had a good trip!

I could be wrong I think I maybe thinking of Finland

Thanks @Lori Dee

@Robbyv213 I didn't address longer term issues such as healthcare and trans access. I know it can take a long time to get onto the ladder and GenderGP (who are after all a private for profit company) wrote a critical assessment in this regard. But that's not because of being 'anti-trans'. Indeed, the Irish Government has committed to reforming transgender healthcare.
This is the national Irish transgender healthcare website on hormones: https://nationalgenderserviceireland.com/hormones/

I think if you are moving to Ireland you need to take things down a notch in terms of general edginess. It's noticeably more laid back than the UK, which also means everything may happen at a slower pace. That may be a factor to bear in mind if you want or need things to happen at a zip.

For UK citizens living in Ireland there is free access to Irish healthcare on the same basis as an Irish citizen:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-ireland

In theory this should mean that you can carry over an existing GP prescription from the UK to Ireland.

I didn't mention that transphobia (better known as trans hatred) and homophobia are criminal offences and carry a prison sentence of up to 5 years. I'll do a quick edit and pop this in.

You really are protected in Ireland. And that came to mean a lot to me when I was out there in terms of relaxing and realising that I would be able to get on and live my life.

Thank you @Devlyn for all your encouragement, prompts, and insights. You were spot on about the importance of legal protections.

xx

So ... will I move to Ireland?!

Watch this space ;)

xx

We should be safe everywhere, as much as non-transgender people would be at least.

I understand that some unaccepting people may believe "that absolutely no one could be without a mental problem and be transgender at the same time, something has to be wrong with them."  That is truly unfortunate.

Thankfully, most of the time we can just live as ourselves.

May you all be able to be yourselves and live safe and peacefully, have a good employment or income and health, and someone you have as a true friend. 

Hugs,

Chrissy

We should indeed @ChrissyRyan. The sad reality is that we aren't.

I oscillate sometimes between thinking it's all okay in my backyard to realising it in fact isn't. The trajectory of the UK seems to be like that of the US at the moment. I will be emigrating from the UK so that I can live my life as I am meant to be. It's a hard pill to swallow, but I have to.

And for sure there are some countries in places like the Middle East where coming out as trans may end in death.

That's the bitter truth with which we live.

xx

Thanks, Tills, for sharing your journey through Ireland and the ensuing discussion. Enlightening and encouraging for anyone considering relocating, and for those of us who can merely fantasize about such a thing.

How does one even leave their country. Most people can't even afford to move across town to a different rental property yet alone to another state or even country or even across the world....

Sell everything you own and hope it's enough to get you and your immediate family safely to another country, and then hope and prey they let you stay there under a temporary visa.

Sadly many people can't and unfortunately this results in discrimination prosecution detention and even death in their own country. Granted obviously not over night just a slow steady compromise of morals over time which leads to bigger and bigger compromise, and eventually to ethnic cleansing...

Like at what point is enough for leaders of the world to be like this is evil and wrong... How much will it take for intervention?

Sadly I fear I won't survive to see how all this plays out in history and that's the realistic hard truth.

It is too bad you may move mostly for safety.  That is just not right to have to do.
But, Ireland apparently has many nice places too.

Chrissy

Well it's certainly tough @Robbyv213 especially if you have roots to a place.

I've lived a very nomadic life, including one six-year period in a very remote location without any contact without the outside world (it was wonderful!). Without wanting to trivialise this, digital nomads are a real phenomenon now. People live and work all over the globe. Global travel is pronounced. The beautiful city of Chiang Mai in northern Thailand, for example, is now full of international people 'working from home'.

I believe, if I may be so bold, that this kind of outward-facing attitude is less true of US citizens where 45-50% have passports compared to, say, the UK where the figure is over 85%.

So a lot comes down to what you are used to. I don't know if I've spent a single year of my adult life, except during covid, when I haven't travelled abroad. And as a child my parents took me on some epic adventures. I don't feel that I belong to any one country anyway. In fact, having spent so much time in other cultures enjoying the very best they have to offer and seeing their darker sides, I'm an internationalist. I'm the very last person you'd find waving a national flag. I see positives and negatives in every country and I believe that generally extreme nationalism and religion are the two curses that have caused more conflict on this earth than anything else. Just my opinion, mind ;)

There's a big psychological and practical difference though between travelling and living, especially if you are forced to uproot and flee. And the older you get, the harder it becomes. Culture Shock is a real deal.

Apart from recalibrating mindset the other factor which holds people back is often friends and family that they will leave behind. The internet has of course made this less of a factor but not wholly.

On a practical note, as @Devlyn has reminded us, there are no restrictions on a UK citizen living in Ireland. And an Irish citizen can live and move anywhere within the 27 member states of the European Union.

Other countries have visa policies that range from nigh-impossible to very plausible. Thailand, for instance, has a Retirement Visa scheme which really isn't too onerous and neither is it particularly expensive. At the other end of the scale there are Golden Visas for those with serious money, and many countries offer various options in-between.

So don't be overly negative. It's perfectly possible to live in another country. You need a positive mindset and then to go and do it.

xx

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on July 03, 2025, 06:53:02 PMIt is too bad you may move mostly for safety.  That is just not right to have to do.
But, Ireland apparently has many nice places too.

Chrissy

Yes Ireland is gorgeous.

xx

Quote from: Robbyv213 on July 03, 2025, 04:33:20 PMHow does one even leave their country. Most people can't even afford to move across town to a different rental property yet alone to another state or even country or even across the world....

Sell everything you own and hope it's enough to get you and your immediate family safely to another country, and then hope and prey they let you stay there under a temporary visa.

Sadly many people can't and unfortunately this results in discrimination prosecution detention and even death in their own country. Granted obviously not over night just a slow steady compromise of morals over time which leads to bigger and bigger compromise, and eventually to ethnic cleansing...

Like at what point is enough for leaders of the world to be like this is evil and wrong... How much will it take for intervention?

Sadly I fear I won't survive to see how all this plays out in history and that's the realistic hard truth.

I hate sounding like a broken record, but that isn't how immigration works. You can't just move to a foreign country because you want to. Usually you need a sponsor, almost invariably a partner, who is a citizen and resident of the host country. Some countries issue skilled worker visas. Fewer offer entrepreneur visas. "Golden visas" where you simply buy your way into a country are going away fast.

I'm not trying to be a killjoy, but anyone thinking of moving to another country should do some serious research.

Entry refusal at a border is not an enjoyable experience. I was initially refused entry to the UK on a flight from New York. After being searched and questioned, I was put in a unisex holding pen (with metal prison toilets) for nine hours. Then shoved in the back row of a plane going back to New York. On landing they charged me $1,900 for the last minute one-way ticket.

Why was I refused entry? They thought I might overstay because I didn't have strong enough ties to the US. I was traveling on a sabbatical. I had sold my house and quit my job. They didn't like that.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on July 04, 2025, 03:32:42 AMI'm not trying to be a killjoy, but anyone thinking of moving to another country should do some serious research.

It would be quite useful to run a separate thread on visa requirements of different countries.

There are loads of countries where you can reside with a work visa but, of course, that's not quite the same thing as emigrating.

As well as the Golden Visas which still exist in a number of countries there are a range of others like Retirement Visas.

I've mentioned Thailand and if you're over 60 you can stay there on a Retirement visa which needs to be renewed every year. You also need to be able to lodge £16,500 in a Thai bank account. I should also point out that the Thai Government habitually moves the visa goalposts: for instance they recently cut down the length of a tourist visa because digital nomads were using it for up to 3 months of work. The Visa Run has long, long, been a favoured option with Thailand expats and I did it myself for many months. Basically you enter on a tourist visa or visa exemption and then nip across the border and back. It's slightly frowned upon but has been going on for donkeys' years.

EU citizens can live and / or work in any of the 27 member countries but you may need to register as a resident.

UK citizens can live without needing a visas in the following countries:

Ireland
Jersey
Guernsey
The Isle of Man
Gibraltar
Paraguay
Belize

I'm very lucky as a UK citizen to have the Ireland option, which I may well be taking up shortly.

Generally I'd say to everyone, which has been my policy in life: don't give up. Do your research and then even if things look bleak, don't despair.

xx

p.s. I was out and about in Birmingham UK today and there was noticeable hostility and toxicity. Admittedly the demographic I was mixing with was 50+ yr olds but it was a rather unpleasant atmosphere for me to be honest.

Such a contrast with Ireland where no one looked. Or if they did they instinctively called me 'Ms' or 'Madam'.

xx

Quote from: Tills on July 04, 2025, 12:49:10 PMIt would be quite useful to run a separate thread on visa requirements of different countries.

...

That's a piece of homework I'm not about to take on! But if anyone else is willing, I'm sure Danielle can arrange for a payment equivalent to Moderator pay.  ;)

Hugs, Devlyn

There is another radical option and I'm not necessarily recommending it but it's something a few hardy types might want to consider. And it's one some youngsters nowadays practice.

You can be a nomad without needing formal resident visas.

If you're prepared to travel around with your home on your back, you can go from country to country and back again. I've lived much of my life like this. I got rid of nearly all of my possessions, dropped a bag or two with friends especially for different types of climate, and then I travelled. I own no property and have very few possessions of my own.

It would be possible for me to alternate between, say, Australia, Canada, Thailand, and Ireland with my rucksack. And I wouldn't need a resident visa. All of them are trans-friendly countries. I could pop into Fiji for a few months each year on the way without needing a visa too. I'm allowed to spend 6 months in Canada and 6 months in Australia. Fiji is en route: I did it last year and Fiji Airways were good.

But if you're going down this line there are some considerations such as having medical and travel insurance, how and where you get your hormones if you're on them, and whether you are willing and able to live your life out of a rucksack. I find it gloriously liberating, thrilling even, but it's quite tough at times too.

Birds do it ...

xx

Quote from: Tills on July 04, 2025, 11:13:15 PMThere is another radical option and I'm not necessarily recommending it but it's something a few hardy types might want to consider. And it's one some youngsters nowadays practice.

You can be a nomad without needing formal resident visas.

If you're prepared to travel around with your home on your back, you can go from country to country and back again. I've lived much of my life like this. I got rid of nearly all of my possessions, dropped a bag or two with friends especially for different types of climate, and then I travelled. I own no property and have very few possessions of my own.

It would be possible for me to alternate between, say, Australia, Canada, Thailand, and Ireland with my rucksack. And I wouldn't need a resident visa. All of them are trans-friendly countries. I could pop into Fiji for a few months each year on the way without needing a visa too. I'm allowed to spend 6 months in Canada and 6 months in Australia. Fiji is en route: I did it last year and Fiji Airways were good.

But if you're going down this line there are some considerations such as having medical and travel insurance, how and where you get your hormones if you're on them, and whether you are willing and able to live your life out of a rucksack. I find it gloriously liberating, thrilling even, but it's quite tough at times too.

Birds do it ...

xx

The cost and availability of medications are significant concerns when travelling. In Australia we have government subsidised medications, so visitors can have prescriptions filled, but at the full manufacturers price. And travelling with hormones can cause problems at borders, so you must have a valid prescription with you. While those countries are legally safe for trans people, there are still the same risks that all people face and a common sense approach to your own safety is still required.

Hugs,

Allie

Quote from: Allie Jayne on July 05, 2025, 03:05:17 AMThe cost and availability of medications are significant concerns when travelling. In Australia we have government subsidised medications, so visitors can have prescriptions filled, but at the full manufacturers price. And travelling with hormones can cause problems at borders, so you must have a valid prescription with you. While those countries are legally safe for trans people, there are still the same risks that all people face and a common sense approach to your own safety is still required.

Hugs,

Allie

Very true Allie. I have a signed and stamped Doctor's letter covering me across international borders. I paid about $50 for it. I would always recommend people travelling with hormones to have this back up although no one has ever cared-a-less about mine and if you deep dive into biosecurity custom rules, hormones aren't an issue anywhere I've encountered: even somewhere like Singapore. Stringent rules for female hormones would cause global chaos.

If you are happy to go to Thailand you can pick up hormones at perfectly respectable pharmacies over the counter for very, very, little money. I also stock up on my antibiotics for travel there. There's one called South-east Asia Pharmacy near Terminal 21 on Sukhumvit which is excellent. They may ask a few questions but you don't even need a prescription. Mind you, I've done the same thing whilst travelling through parts of Europe. Just rolled up at a pharmacy and bought my estrogen without prescription. You won't tend to find the more unusual types like gels although they can order things in. I once picked up bicalutamide there for example.

Interestingly, according to my Gender Identity Clinic, regular estrogen is generally secure from fakes because it's so cheap that it doesn't pay the con people to manufacture it.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not advocating any of the above, nor encouraging it. Nor trying to be radical. Simply reporting how it is. And please bear in mind that I once lived in the heart of the jungle for 6 years and the book 'Where there is no Doctor' was the practical bible. The niceties of prescription etiquettes tend to go out the window when you're in the middle of nowhere without communications to the outside world.

I've also done some very dodgy things in Thailand, including once injecting something which may or may not have been bona fide estrogen which wasn't well sourced. Always go through your physician if you can, and if not then see a good pharmacist.

xx

I envy your worldliness, Tills, and enjoy your travelogues. I enjoyed a quasi-nomadic lifestyle most of my working years as a grant writer for indigenous nations throughout the western US (a wee bit broader than Thoreau's: I have travelled extensively throughout Lexington and Concord, but negligible in comparison to your own). For the last decade of my migrant life, I lived out of a blue, 1990 Grand Am (not quite a rucksack but close).

I may or may not pop to Thailand in October but if I do it will be to meet up with some friends and chat to my surgeon at PAI.

I don't deep down believe that Thailand is really an answer for me. Its approach to trans issues is ambiguous and not always entirely correct. In one way it is accepting but that's more in a Buddhist sense of toleration that this is the lot with which life has landed you, usually as a result of your past. It's not truly accepting that a trans woman is a woman per se. That's why there's so much acceptance of third gender identities.

And much as I love it, Thailand is also very looks-obsessed. Many females for example make themselves up before working out in the morning ;)

What I adored about Ireland is that I was me. A woman. Not a trans anything. You don't have to dollop on loads of make-up and put on a show. You can live a woman and get on with your life, entirely protected by law - which you are not (yet) in Thailand.

And that's exactly as it should be.

xx

I've posted an anecdotal UK update over on here:

https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,250883.new.html#new

I don't see how I can remain in the UK in this increasingly hostile environment. It's toxic.

xx

I've noticed some people are referring to places like Colorado and California as 'free' states. For so many of us living in 'non-free' states, the environment is dangerously toxic. Best wishes, Tills. I hope you find your safe haven soon. 

Quote from: Dances With Trees on July 14, 2025, 01:23:18 PMI've noticed some people are referring to places like Colorado and California as 'free' states. For so many of us living in 'non-free' states, the environment is dangerously toxic. Best wishes, Tills. I hope you find your safe haven soon. 

No one should have to live in an unsafe environment, ever. It is like I keep saying, "Vote with your feet and get out." It doesn't mean today or this month, but make a plan to get somewhere safe. Support the safe place with your tax dollars and by supporting local businesses with your patronage. The best way to make change is by hitting them in the wallet. That they understand.

Quote from: Lori Dee on July 14, 2025, 01:48:26 PMNo one should have to live in an unsafe environment, ever.

I couldn't agree with you more, Lori. Though even the 'free' states seem to be caving to the hateful vitriol and funding constraints imposed by MAGA-ism. I'm an old woman. I was born less than a hundred miles from where I currently live. I have chosen to stay in Montana and do what little I can to support trans women and trans children who have no choice but to live in Big Sky Country. Hey, if a totally out in the open Zooey Zephyr can hack it, an old woman such as myself still hiding in the shadows should also be able to.

Quote from: Dances With Trees on July 14, 2025, 02:48:00 PMI have chosen to stay in Montana and do what little I can to support trans women and trans children who have no choice but to live in Big Sky Country.

I admire your grit.  ;D

With all the political rumblings all over the country, I suspect that a reckoning is coming. We will see what happens in 2026 and then in 2028.