Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Following the recent definition of a woman by the UK Supreme Court I wondered if we could have a thread pulling together a list of safe countries for (trans) women? I'm putting trans in brackets simply because I consider myself a woman, and that's half the point of this.

So where is safe? For those of us who have the means, where might we go to try to live?

I know that there are organisations like ILGA who produce a Rainbow Map https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/ but it's not entirely accurate e.g. I would not consider the UK to be any longer a safe country for me. One of the key factors in this in my opinion is self-determination of gender. At the moment in the UK you have to go through an unbelievably complex process and a gatekeeper panel to get gender recognised. And with the new ruling it may mean zilch.

I also want to be aware of the difference between trans friendly places like Thailand and actual legally accepting countries like Spain. For example, yes Thailand may be a great place to be trans but they don't currently recognise trans women as women as such.

So, please, could we post up where we feel is safe and why?

xx

As a start-up, there is Malta.

Pretty awesome set of constitutional protections:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_Malta

xx

The Australian Sex Discrimination Act holds Gender as a protected asset, and this was upheld in the recent case of 'Tickle vs Giggle' where the company Giggle was found to have discriminated against a Trans Woman, Ms Tickle. The centre of the case was focussed on the definition of Woman, but the court held that the terminology has taken a much broader meaning in recent years, and that Ms Tickle's gender had to be recognised.

In general, Australians are pretty laid back, and only a few radicals care about Trans people. Everyone else just lives and lets live. Most places are as safe for Trans people as for Cis people, recognising that there is crime in every society. I have travelled a lot around Australia as a not really passing trans woman and have never been harassed, but I have heard stories of Trans people being harassed at places where alcohol is consumed.

Having said that, we are weeks from a Federal Election, and if the conservatives won power, things could change, though it is not likely as the Conservative Party  suffered a severe backlash at the last election for proposing anti trans laws.

Hugs,

Allie

Thanks so much for this info Allie.

I visited Queensland and NSW last autumn and loved the experience. I was hiking a lot including in the Blue Mountains when I wasn't going out of my way to glam up! I didn't feel judged once. Nor was I misgendered once. In fact, the Aussies were nothing but friendly and warm. I absolutely loved Sydney. The people were so accepting and chilled.

Truly, I now feel an alien in my homeland.

As Allie Jayne pointed out, and Sarah B too, Australia is a good place, and I think New Zealand is too.

Although Thailand does not officially recognize transgender people, there are places within the country that are accepting. I think that is true in any large country. Even Mexico has places that are accepting, while the rest of the country (including government and police) make it risky.

It is a good question to be asking under these circumstances.

@Tills

I just found this article: Best Places for LGBTQ People to Retire Abroad
https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/happy-retirement/best-places-for-lgbtq-people-to-retire-abroad

Top of the list is Spain.
I guess Devlyn already knew that.  ;D

Oh that's really helpful Lori Dee: thank you.

Yep Spain is really on my radar now. Cheap property prices too!

xx

I've ordered my Spanish guide book and am booking a week or two there next month. This is the start of my groundwork. If I go for it I'll learn Spanish. I speak 3 languages fluently but that's not one of them and it would be a great language to learn anyway. My two children speak Spanish so if I buy a property there they'll get an inheritance that might actually be helpful :)

The general consensus seems to be that the coast around the east and south is very LGBTQ friendly. In the interior most of the larger towns and cities seem to be fine too. It's only in the more traditional rural areas that you might encounter some resistance. Generally though the country seems to be extremely trans and also gay friendly.

It's a huge country so I'm going to start off in the north with Girona as that gets good reports, go to Barcelona which I've never visited, and then head west to the University town of Salamanca. Maybe also Valadolid and Leon.

Interesting discussions about this on a forum the name of which is apparently bleeped on here!!

p.s. We need to stick together at the moment like never before and need all the help we can get.

Well, I've just arrived on the overnight sleeper train in bonnie Scotland, one of my favourite countries on the planet.

In terms of the UK, you could argue that it's Scotland which kicked off the row. It was the Scottish Parliament voting for gender self-determination which precipitated the UK Gov't at Westminster to overrule them. And it's a group of Scottish dissenters who have railed against the progressive beliefs up here. Scotland generally is more left wing than south of the border and with differing views. For example, Scotland voted for remaining in the EU.

So might Scotland provide a kind of local safe haven for UK trans and non-binary people? Maybe.

Anyway the Highlands beckon and I want to admire this beautiful scenery :)

xx

Gender identity is a protected category in Canada, both federally and in all provinces.  Canadians in general are tolerant people, despite the recent rise of trumpism in Canadian politics.  We have an election under way right now.  If the vote goes the way I am hoping and the way the polls are trending, Canada will be safe for a few more years.

I have never been discriminated against, and even sideways glances are rare.  Most people in my area, if they don't know what to make of someone, will, by default, be polite.  That's not a bad default.  The vast majority of people I interact with are pleasant.

Quote from: Tills on April 20, 2025, 11:43:13 PMWell, I've just arrived on the overnight sleeper train in bonnie Scotland, one of my favourite countries on the planet.

In terms of the UK, you could argue that it's Scotland which kicked off the row. It was the Scottish Parliament voting for gender self-determination which precipitated the UK Gov't at Westminster to overrule them. And it's a group of Scottish dissenters who have railed against the progressive beliefs up here. Scotland generally is more left wing than south of the border and with differing views. For example, Scotland voted for remaining in the EU.

So might Scotland provide a kind of local safe haven for UK trans and non-binary people? Maybe.

Anyway the Highlands beckon and I want to admire this beautiful scenery :)

xx

Enjoy! Our honeymoon was spent at Croft 103 on the shore of Loch Eriboll near Durness. Beautiful place!

Well I've returned from Scotland which was beautiful as ever. People seem noticeably more chilled and friendly than in the south-east of England.

However, reading around the Scottish Gov't responses to the UK Supreme Court ruling makes me think that I'm naive to assume Scotland provides a safer space for us. Ultimately it falls under UK law and there seems little desire to stand up for [trans] women.

There is no moral or ethical compass to this. It's politicking. They want the votes of the older, less progressive, population who are more liable to support Reform. Transgender people represent a much smaller voting minority.

Sigh. I am beginning to accept the inevitable, that I shall have to emigrate for my safety and wellbeing. The question is, where?!

A question for everyone on here who knows Thailand. Can trans women use female loos without being hassled? Does it make a difference if you are pre or post op?

I can't now recall what it was like when I was out there.

@warlockmaker ?

One thing I like about the Thailand option is that they have a Retirement Visa scheme which isn't too difficult to obtain providing you have c. £20,000

Country	Legal Gender Recognition	Healthcare Access	Social Acceptance	LGBTQ+ Community	Vibe & Notes
Canada	Strong (Self-ID in most provinces)	Free/affordable HRT and surgeries (waitlists)	High, especially in major cities	Very large and organized	Extremely welcoming; Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal are top choices
Spain	Strong (Self-ID law passed 2023)	Universal healthcare covers HRT; surgery partially covered	Growing acceptance, very strong in cities	Vibrant, especially in Madrid & Barcelona	Mediterranean vibe, low cost of living compared to UK
New Zealand	Strong (Self-ID)	Free/low-cost HRT, surgeries partially funded (waitlists)	High acceptance; very trans-aware culture	Good, tight-knit communities	Very peaceful, nature-connected, slower pace
Germany	Strong (New Self-ID law coming into force 2025)	HRT and surgeries mostly covered by public insurance	Growing, varies by region (Berlin, Hamburg very accepting)	Huge scene in Berlin	More bureaucratic but very legally protective
Ireland	Strong (Self-ID since 2015)	HRT free; surgeries out of pocket or abroad often	Mostly positive, especially in Dublin	Small but loving community	English-speaking, easier UK-to-Ireland move
Portugal	Strong (Self-ID law)	Universal healthcare covers HRT; surgery needs private clinics	Very welcoming, relaxed culture	Lisbon and Porto have good LGBTQ+ hubs	Affordable living, warm weather
Argentina	One of the world's best (Gender Identity Law 2012)	Full free coverage of HRT and surgeries	Generally positive, but varies outside cities	Big trans activism scene	Spanish needed; economy unstable but laws very pro-trans

I've been working on this little table for my personal use, and I hope it's helpful.

It's coming together, but I'd recommend double-checking just to be sure.


~Lilis 💗

Canada is likely safe.  I would stay away from some middle eastern countries and some African countries.

Hi Everyone

Which states in the US and countries are safe are listed below:

• The following link provides information which are the Safest Countries. (https://www.asherfergusson.com/lgbtq-travel-safety/)
• The following link provides information which states in US are safe (https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/anti-trans-national-risk-assessment)

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator
@Tills @Lilis

@Lilis and @Sarah B thanks so much.

Interesting link that one Sarah. It runs to 2023 and I would note a marked downturn in the UK over the past 2 years. It was noticeable during the final year of the Conservative Gov't and has, if anything, got significantly worse under Labour. The recent Supreme Court ruling feels like a terminal moment for many of us in the UK.

I hadn't really considered Ireland. Thank you for this reminder Lilis. It's strongly Catholic, of course, which adds a complication. But there is one MASSIVE advantage for a UK citizen in that we can live there permanently without a visa under the Common Travel Area agreement. In fact, currently Ireland sits outside Schengen. Hmmm. Interesting. I love Dublin. Fabulous city but certainly not cheap ;)

The reference to former colonies of the British Empire is interesting!!! Having been indoctrinated in school that we were the best of the best colonoziers I have become increasingly aware of a very different story to tell.

I feel a holiday to Ireland beckoning ...

I think a key factor for me is about people being socially chilled. And especially not being challenged when using the ladies or other female spaces. Without aggression and hostility.

On those counts I no longer feel safe or accepted in the UK.

Oh, I can scrub up and be convincing but why should anyone feel that they have to do that? And under the new ruling even that is no guarantee of acceptance.

Back to the Thailand question. It's a country where I spent a lot of time up until a couple of years ago and I had my two surgeries out there.

I love the place and the people, although I find the heat less appealing as I get older!

I also think that for [trans] women it's a complex situation. Yes, there's acceptance of gender expression and to an extent 'third' gender. But that's not the same as acceptance that a trans woman is a woman. You'll note that in a recent post from @warlockmaker who I respect greatly and who looks like any other [cis] woman. There's considerable nuance about how they do and don't accept trans women as women. Part of that nuance is tied up in Buddhism (which I generally like) because a prevailing attitude exists that trans and gay people are serving penitence due to previous life. There's also a significant sex trade element to the whole kathoey (ladyboy) phenomenon which is, again, not the same thing at all as what I'm about. Although I was once offered a permanent job in a prominent Bangkok ladyboy bar after dancing on stage during a particularly memorable night out with a friend  ;D  :D  :D
It's worth adding that the heavy tourist destinations are for the same reason best avoided although, again, I was wolf-whistled and propositioned by westerners at a bar. Oh my. Those days ;)

Seriously though, I'd like to be in a country which simply accepts me as a woman. That's all I ask. I'm not totally convinced that Thailand quite offers that?

Ireland is a great choice I think. Not only can UK people work there without a visa, after 5 years you can get an Irish passport which will entitle you to live and work throughout the EU. That will give you a lot more options if Ireland goes fash. I don't think it will, but I definitely see the value in having exit pathways.

Do we have people here that have lived in Iceland? 
How is it there for us?


Chrissy

As a tourist I had no issues in Iceland.
There are a number of LGBT+ expressions, such as a rainbow sidewalks there.
It is an interesting place to visit.
Rather cool, not warm temperatures.

There are a number of relaxing geothermal pools there.
You do not need to go to their most famous one, although I did make a stop there.
Now an active volcano keeps that one closed a lot.

Whale watching was fun, dining was fun, all the mountains and hiking were fun.
Many interesting sites, they have.  Lots of waterfalls. 

I wore pants my entire time there, it was not that warm.  Take a jacket.


Chrissy

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on April 28, 2025, 03:09:29 AMIreland is a great choice I think. Not only can UK people work there without a visa, after 5 years you can get an Irish passport which will entitle you to live and work throughout the EU. That will give you a lot more options if Ireland goes fash. I don't think it will, but I definitely see the value in having exit pathways.

I'm really interested in this idea. So much so that I bought a DK guide book to Ireland yesterday :)

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on April 28, 2025, 07:22:23 AMAs a tourist I had no issues in Iceland.
There are a number of LGBT+ expressions, such as a rainbow sidewalks there.
It is an interesting place to visit.
Rather cool, not warm temperatures.

There are a number of relaxing geothermal pools there.
You do not need to go to their most famous one, although I did make a stop there.
Now an active volcano keeps that one closed a lot.

Whale watching was fun, dining was fun, all the mountains and hiking were fun.
Many interesting sites, they have.  Lots of waterfalls. 

I wore pants my entire time there, it was not that warm.  Take a jacket.


Chrissy

I find myself increasingly preferring cold climates as opposed to the tropics where I've lived so much of my life. I was in Iceland in November and can say that I don't think I've ever been so cold as I was in Reykjavik but as I'd flown in the Pacific Ocean I didn't have the gear with me. I loved it there. It was dawn and I dived into a coffee shop and got chatting over hot chocolate with 3 travelling girls from New York. Was just a lovely time. People were so friendly and I found it an easy place to be.



 

I wonder if it's possible to claim refugee status in Ireland as a trans woman fleeing persecution from the UK, following the Supreme Court ruling?

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/how-to-become-a-citizen/become-an-irish-citizen-by-naturalisation/proofs-of-identity-and-residence/

Who can apply for international protection?

You can apply for international protection in Ireland for two separate reasons:

You have a 'well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion', and you cannot seek the protection of your country. This is called refugee status.
You cannot return to your own country because you are at risk of serious harm, but you do not qualify as a refugee. This is called subsidiary protection status.'

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/the-asylum-process-in-ireland/applying-for-refugee-status-in-ireland/#8dcb45

Shall I become a test case?!

(I did once have to claim refugee status under the UNHCR when I fled a coup d'etat. It was the only way I could get back into the UK without any documentation.)

I don't think you would need to claim asylum in Ireland as you can already live and work there. You can even use health and social services with UK passport.

Good point @kira21 ♡♡♡

5 patient years of mostly living there also leads to Irish citizenship and passport.

It's a big step though. I guess the first thing is to go take a look.

xx

Good morning everyone from the UK.

I have been reading around Thailand's approach to transgender rights and they do seem to be making considerable progress, with a new bill likely to be put before parliament. In many ways they are going the opposite direction to the UK. Gender identity recognition looks to be part of the process.

 https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/02/20/lgbtq-rights-push-in-thailand-with-new-gender-identity-law/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_Thailand#

It looks to me that if you are dressed femme you are fine using female facilities, especially if you are post-op.

My problem with the Ireland idea is one of loneliness. I literally know no-one there and if I wanted citizenship I'd have to live there for 5 years, with only about 60 days a year outside the country. That's an awfully long time to be on one's own in a country you don't know.

I've friends in Thailand, including my longest-standing friend (we go back to 7 years old).

It's also a LOT cheaper ;)

Quote from: Tills on May 04, 2025, 12:06:54 AMMy problem with the Ireland idea is one of loneliness. I literally know no-one there and if I wanted citizenship I'd have to live there for 5 years, with only about 60 days a year outside the country. That's an awfully long time to be on one's own in a country you don't know.

I've friends in Thailand, including my longest-standing friend (we go back to 7 years old).

It's also a LOT cheaper ;)

Don't forget the rain..😐 Yes Ireland is very expensive.

Quote from: Jessica 33 on May 04, 2025, 01:26:24 AMDon't forget the rain..😐 Yes Ireland is very expensive.

Dublin is expensive, but most of Ireland has absolutely great prices on real estate.

Quote from: Tills on May 04, 2025, 12:06:54 AMI literally know no-one there and if I wanted citizenship I'd have to live there for 5 years, with only about 60 days a year outside the country. That's an awfully long time to be on one's own in a country you don't know.

You are assuming that you would never meet anyone in five years?

When I moved to South Dakota, I didn't know anyone here. (Trust me, it is like another country.  ;D )
But I met my neighbors, one of whom has become my best friend. I have made friends through people I interact with, from the dentist's office to grocery store clerks. You will interact with people, even if it is only casual business, but the more often it happens, the more you get to know each other.

Never worry about being alone. There are not many places on Earth where you can live in seclusion. Even Danielle has moose, bears, and deer for neighbors.  ;D

Thank you for the lovely comments above everyone.

I've been researching this thoroughly and I'd say things have gone up a notch or two.

For me, I think Thailand would be a last resort. I've lived there quite a bit and although it's not quite as dark as White Lotus Series 3, it's a place where you do need to keep your wits about you.

I'm interested in buying a place in the Republic of Ireland. Ireland appeals for several reasons:

- As a UK citizen I can live there permanently without a visa. This contrasts with, say, Spain where I would only get 90 days in every 180. Spain remains on the table but having to go from there back into a non-Shengen area for half the year would be a pain in the proverbial.

- Real estate in Ireland is, as @Devlyn says, good value especially if you stay away from Dublin.

- It's English-speaking. Not a total deal breaker and I do speak 3 or 4 languages and have lived in several non-English-speaking countries but life is definitely easier in one's mother-tongue. It's not an over-crowded land either. Oh and they drive on the left ;)

- If I were prepared to put in the hard graft and Mother Nature smiles on me, then after 5 years of mostly living there (10 months in every 12) I can apply for Irish citizenship, a passport, and therefore the right to live and travel anywhere in the EU. That's a big plus tick for me.

- The way the UK is headed politically leaves me cold. Since the ruling I have already detected an increase in hostility, deliberate misgendering and legitimisation of hatred. This isn't just for transgender people. The trajectory for the past 10 years has, in my opinion, been an unpleasant one for many minority groups and migrants. I fear that this is only going to get worse especially if Farage's Reform Party get anywhere near power - but their influence is already clear in the media and on current Government policy. By contrast, living in a country like Ireland which has enshrined LGBGT rights in law, including gender self-certification, is incredibly appealing.

- I don't mind the rain. Actually I like rain. I've lived in desert climates and much prefer 'green and pleasant' lands. Whether I'd still be saying that on a miserable grey November day is another matter  :D

So the Emerald Isle seems to be calling to me.

Well, the UK has now plummeted in the ILGA-Europe rankings to the second worst for LGBTQ+ in Western Europe, after only Italy.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/05/14/uk-lgbtq-ilga-europe-ranking-2025/

Here's the ILGA-Europe 2025 update:

https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/

In terms of options for me, I've looked into Spain but I can't readily live there. Since Brexit we are only permitted 90 days in every 180, which is a pain in the proverbial. There is a thing called a non-lucrative visa but you need a monthly income of c. $3000 USD. I have capital rather than income,

I'm left really with a couple of options. One is the Republic of Ireland. The other is Thailand. I'm still mulling this. Ireland is easy for a UK citizen: we can literally just go there for any length of time and after 5 years of residency you can apply for citizenship, which also confers EU citizenship. Real estate is way cheaper than the UK but it's still a chunk of money and I would be pushing tight. A retirement visa in Thailand is straightforward: as long as you can park c. $20000 USD in a Thai bank account you get the visa which is renewable each year.

If it wasn't so far away I would also consider Australia. I really liked it there when I went. The people were so friendly and accepting, and I never got misgendered once even when I was togged up in my hiking gear.

This morning, I posted a news story about Romania passing Poland as the worst place for transgender people to live.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,251093.msg2304067.html#msg2304067

But, the article also states: "Malta, Belgium, and Iceland find themselves on the opposite side of the spectrum."

I don't think I could handle Iceland or Belgium, but Malta? An island nation in the Mediterranean Sea.
That could be promising.

@Tills

Quote from: Tills on May 18, 2025, 10:57:11 PMIn terms of options for me, I've looked into Spain but I can't readily live there. Since Brexit we are only permitted 90 days in every 180, which is a pain in the proverbial. There is a thing called a non-lucrative visa but you need a monthly income of c. $3000 USD. I have capital rather than income,

I'm left really with a couple of options. One is the Republic of Ireland. The other is Thailand. I'm still mulling this. Ireland is easy for a UK citizen: we can literally just go there for any length of time and after 5 years of residency you can apply for citizenship, which also confers EU citizenship. Real estate is way cheaper than the UK but it's still a chunk of money and I would be pushing tight. A retirement visa in Thailand is straightforward: as long as you can park c. $20000 USD in a Thai bank account you get the visa which is renewable each year.

If it wasn't so far away I would also consider Australia. I really liked it there when I went. The people were so friendly and accepting, and I never got misgendered once even when I was togged up in my hiking gear.

Ireland is the way to go for a UK citizen. You can walk right in and after five years you're eligible for an Irish passport. Then the EU is your oyster, including Spain if that's what you want.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Lori Dee on May 18, 2025, 11:37:18 PMThis morning, I posted a news story about Romania passing Poland as the worst place for transgender people to live.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,251093.msg2304067.html#msg2304067

But, the article also states: "Malta, Belgium, and Iceland find themselves on the opposite side of the spectrum."

I don't think I could handle Iceland or Belgium, but Malta? An island nation in the Mediterranean Sea.
That could be promising.

@Tills

Iceland is wild, but OMG is it expensive!

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 19, 2025, 02:06:43 AMIceland is wild, but OMG is it expensive!

Hugs, Devlyn

And brrrrrr.  :icon_yikes:

I thought you were in the  upper Midwest? Cold shouldn't bother you.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 19, 2025, 08:38:57 AMI thought you were in the  upper Midwest? Cold shouldn't bother you.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Hence, the reason I am moving. 30 years of Midwest weather, and I am over it. My mining site got snow last night. OVER IT!  ;D

Yeah I don't mind the cold. In fact, I like it. Apart from how the dry arctic air affects my sinuses, which is something I've encountered every since my facial surgery in 2017.

I thought Iceland was awesome when I went but would I think so through the long dark nights? Probably not, much as I love the northern lights.

The problem I have with Ireland at the moment @Devlyn is that it's going to be so tight for me financially. I've got c. $135,000 USD to buy a place outright (I don't want a loan). Really to get a decent apartment I need another $30,000 USD. The alternative is to get a run-down place to do up but I'm not sure I've got the energy, and besides I'd have to live in it!

I might hold for 12 months and spend some of that time researching places. The reason is that if they go ahead with production of my film, which they keep assuring me IS going to happen, then my available capital would double, or more.

So I might look around Ireland and then go and spend a bit of time in Thailand and Australia without committing to anything. Maybe get a lip lift sorted that I've wanted for a while, and also have a chat with my surgeon Dr Sutin at PAI about the finishing op down below.

xx

Anywhere but the UK right now anyway  :D

The west coast of Ireland (obviously not the waterfront homes) is really affordable. With the benefit of having some actual land, not a British postage stamp sized lot. Look around Galway, Sligo, Donegal, Roscommon.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 19, 2025, 10:09:12 AMThe west coast of Ireland (obviously not the waterfront homes) is really affordable. With the benefit of having some actual land, not a British postage stamp sized lot. Look around Galway, Sligo, Donegal, Roscommon.

Hugs, Devlyn

Yes, thanks. I'm on property alerts and have been trawling through hundreds of them and saving my favourites.

It is indeed very good value compared to the UK but you're still not getting a good property in RoI in is a truly liveable condition for the price I mentioned. There are some awesome rural ones for renovating at that price but they need work.

A good apartment in a town or city is c. $150,000 USD minimum.

And do I really want to be stuck out in a remote part of County Donegal on a bleak rainy winter's day, miles from anywhere?

In both rural and town you have to be extremely careful with the Defective Concrete Block crisis. Thousands of apparently good value homes in the west and north-west of Ireland are affected:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_defective_block_crisis

Are you using daft? Quite a few move in ready houses in the range you're looking at.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 19, 2025, 12:22:35 PMAre you using daft? Quite a few move in ready houses in the range you're looking at.

Hugs, Devlyn

Yes, Daft.

There was a decent 1-bed apartment in Waterford that came on the market y'day that is almost within reach.

xx

Well I've spent quite a lot of time weighing up pros and cons and trying to attune with the universe on a deep level.

Knowing my needs like I (mostly) do I realise that at this stage Ireland would be a step too far. There's no point sitting out there in a flat or house with no money left. It would be much better to wait 12 months and evaluate when the picture is clearer on the film production. The financial benefits from it are so great that it could revolutionise my position, not only meaning a much nicer apartment or house but also cash in the bank as a cushion.

So meantime I intend over-wintering in Thailand and Australia whilst I watch and wait. And, maybe, have my GRS surgery in Bangkok, plus a lip lift that I've wanted for a while.

xx

Quote from: Tills on May 25, 2025, 03:03:21 AMThere's no point sitting out there in a flat or house with no money left.

I came to a similar decision regarding my move. I can afford a nicer place, but I don't need a nicer place. My primary goal is just to re-establish my residency in Colorado so I have the protections of state law. By getting a cheaper place that still meets my needs, I can save up money for other things like surgery, relocation, etc. There is also the possibility that the Orange Man and company will do something that could affect my disability or retirement income. So it is better to sit tight and stash some cash.

Perhaps Iceland.

Quote from: Lori Dee on May 25, 2025, 10:27:21 AMI came to a similar decision regarding my move. I can afford a nicer place, but I don't need a nicer place. My primary goal is just to re-establish my residency in Colorado so I have the protections of state law. By getting a cheaper place that still meets my needs, I can save up money for other things like surgery, relocation, etc. There is also the possibility that the Orange Man and company will do something that could affect my disability or retirement income. So it is better to sit tight and stash some cash.

Lori, I love your way of thinking. I am still stuck in Virginia pondering the right time to relocate. I do want to make my move to Colorado, but am trying to find the right timing. I don't have many possessions left, but the market does not yet favor selling here at the current time. As much as this Administration is not favorable to us, the tax cuts that are proposed will be beneficial if approved. This I am hopeful will permit me some room to move forward with my relocating. I am following you and your relocation with interest as to the area. I don't need much myself, just a place to call home.

@Lori Dee your current situation sounds a whole lot better than mine. That's the problem, I do need to do something

I live in the same house as a woman with whom I used to have a physical relationship. I can't put it any more strongly than that because we were never properly partners. She tolerates my presence and we co-exist on a friendship level. But her daughters (late 20's) hate me being around and have done for a decade. So much so that I am only permitted to exist in the attic at the top of the house. When they are in the house I am literally not allowed down. I feel like Rochester's wife. I've been doing this for a year and everyone I speak to is appalled and telling me to get out.

So I know that I need to find somewhere.

@Annaliese - just seen your reply too.

Weird thing happened this morning.

I went to book a trip to Thailand and just could not do it. Instead I found myself booking a trip to Ireland, which is all now done for a fortnight's time.

I've reflected on what happened and can explain it fairly simply.

I don't want to go and live in Thailand but feel I may have to financially

I want to give Ireland a go but feel I may not be able to financially.

In such circumstances my counsellor would tell me to go with my heart and see if the universe answers. She might.

xx

If you can afford Iceland, consider it.

Houses near the active volcano may be deeply discounted now.
But I would stay far away from that thing. 

Quote from: Tills on May 26, 2025, 08:43:50 AM@Lori Dee your current situation sounds a whole lot better than mine. That's the problem, I do need to do something

I live in the same house as a woman with whom I used to have a physical relationship. I can't put it any more strongly than that because we were never properly partners. She tolerates my presence and we co-exist on a friendship level. But her daughters (late 20's) hate me being around and have done for a decade. So much so that I am only permitted to exist in the attic at the top of the house. When they are in the house I am literally not allowed down. I feel like Rochester's wife. I've been doing this for a year and everyone I speak to is appalled and telling me to get out.

So I know that I need to find somewhere.

@Annaliese - just seen your reply too.

Tillis, that's not a way to live. I can understand why you need to relocate.  I would say I'm fortunate that I live by myself,  it has tons of advantages,  but it has alot of disadvantages as well. I find myself in isolation at times. Now more than ever. It's like which is best. I am searching out for community in my area, but so far no luck. But I still search.

Being tied to this place has It's drawbacks.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on May 26, 2025, 08:50:36 AMIf you can afford Iceland, consider it.

Houses near the active volcano may be deeply discounted now.
But I would stay far away from that thing. 

But I don't think you can just go and live in Iceland as a UK citizen? You have to get residency.

And although I don't mind the cold and I love the northern lights, it's very dark in winter.

I think the point @Devlyn and others have been making is that a UK citizen is lucky enough to be able to live in Ireland without any questions being asked. And if you stick it out then after 5 years you can apply for citizenship, which confers an Irish passport. Meaning you could then live anywhere in the EU, or travel in the EU for more than 90 days in every 180.

Quote from: Tills on May 26, 2025, 08:57:06 AMBut I don't think you can just go and live in Iceland as a UK citizen? You have to get residency.

And although I don't mind the cold and I love the northern lights, it's very dark in winter.

I think the point @Devlyn and others have been making is that a UK citizen is lucky enough to be able to live in Ireland without any questions being asked. And if you stick it out then after 5 years you can apply for citizenship, which confers an Irish passport. Meaning you could then live anywhere in the EU, or travel in the EU for more than 90 days in every 180.

I do not know about the requirements to stay there as a long term resident.

Chrissy

Quote from: Tills on May 26, 2025, 08:57:06 AMBut I don't think you can just go and live in Iceland as a UK citizen? You have to get residency.

And although I don't mind the cold and I love the northern lights, it's very dark in winter.

I think the point @Devlyn and others have been making is that a UK citizen is lucky enough to be able to live in Ireland without any questions being asked. And if you stick it out then after 5 years you can apply for citizenship, which confers an Irish passport. Meaning you could then live anywhere in the EU, or travel in the EU for more than 90 days in every 180.

If you do a cash buy in Ireland, your outgoings will be low. Water is free there, and the council tax is about 10% of UK rates.

Hugs, Devlyn

As I was reading back threads about my surgeon in Thailand I came across an interesting comment by @warlockmaker

"There's full acceptance. No one cares in Bangkok. It's a gender fluid community. I get hit on in clubs by both men and women."

Relating this to something @TanyaG said, you can have all the legislation in place in a country, but that doesn't necessarily mean the people will take you in their stride. You might still get stared at and be, essentially, different. In Thailand in general, and certainly in Bangkok, you will be rubbing bosoms with every shade of gender expression and no one bats an eyelid.

Legislation and Attitudes are not necessarily in sync.

I do think the UK is more hostile now, but that's mainly amongst 50+ yr olds and generally men.

xx

p.s. Having had dinner with @warlockmaker I can attest to her being beautiful. This isn't, or shouldn't, be about looks of course but there's also a tradition in Thailand of women making a bit of an effort with their appearance. Even to the point that they will often put on makeup before working out! And generally if you dress female then that's how you will be treated: as a woman, regardless of whether you look like Jodie Comer or Mrs Shrek.

Those of you who follow sport may be aware that there's a massive row going on during this year's French Open. Basically the organisers keep scheduling men to play in the prime-time evening slot. Not a single women's match. This is despite the fact that a game like today's Rybakina vs Swiatek could be a cracker.

https://www.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/13377476/french-open-jessica-pegula-criticises-schedule-as-players-hit-out-at-lack-of-womens-night-matches

And this isn't new. It has been like this for some years. I do love France but this is very typical.

It's a little reminder, that you can have all the protection in place at a legal level masking massive prejudice at a practical one.

When I started this thread with the header 'Which Countries are Safe ...?' I hadn't expected this nuance to emerge but I think it's important. Which counts for more? A legally protective country, or one in which people are friendly, chilled, and open? Ideally both of course.

Prejudices can be deeply ingrained and eventually the politicians may even roll back legislation in order to look after their votes at the ballot box: look at the UK as a case in point.


@TanyaG

Quote from: Tills on June 01, 2025, 12:05:08 AMWhen I started this thread with the header 'Which Countries are Safe ...?' I hadn't expected this nuance to emerge but I think it's important. Which counts for more? A legally protective country, or one in which people are friendly, chilled, and open? Ideally both of course.

I had a French girlfriend who was schooled in Britain because her parents didn't want her to absorb the values their own culture had toward women. To paraphrase how she put it, French women must express themselves through gender, because so many other options are closed to them, thanks to France being such a conservative society. The further south you go in France the worse it gets and she was born in the Camargue.

You're right that many countries appear tolerant if you read their laws, but the reality may be very different in terms of lived experience. Pakistan is the perfect case, because as far as trans rights are concerned, they have all the laws in place the international courts require, but it's just window dressing. Zero effort is made to implement them. France, Spain and Italy all have laws in place to protect women's rights, but attitudinally the three countries are twenty years behind Britain, as recent court cases have shown.

Which is not to say that in deeply conservative countries you can't find pockets of liberalism. Germany is very conservative, Berlin is very liberal; Spain is super conservative, Barcelona is not; Montana is MAGA but Bozeman is the reverse; Italy is borderline Fascist but Firenze is liberal; France you've already highlighted. University cities tend to be liberal regardles of the culture of the area surrounding them in my experience.

So I've always taken charts and scoring systems for LGBTQ friendliness with a pinch of salt, because a nation's laws may only be there because politicians needed to pass them to tick a box and get something else. The lived experience may be very different and ultimately it is attitudes (which can't be legislated) that determine tolerance. So for my money, it's more useful knowing that the people in a particular town or city are trans tolerant than anything else. Which makes the communication of experience of people here more valuable than anything else.

You've made really excellent points on this subject @TanyaG I was initially resistant but you have highlighted something so important. It is easy to think the grass is greener, without understanding the nuances involved in a country, or within countries as, again, you've just highlighted.

The Chevron Championship April 24-27
NBC, GOLF Channel, Peacock

U.S. Women's Open presented by Ally May 29 – June 1
NBC, USA Network, Peacock

NBC is now broadcasting women's golf in the Prime Time slot for men's golf!  Previously it was only available via paid subscriptions. This is good because most men need to see how professional women play golf as that is as good as they can possibly play.  The men are too good and only an elite few can do what they do.

This is such a useful thread, thank you for starting it! If people can share their lived experience of particular places here, others will be able to make a judgment based on them and everyone will benefit!

A discussion over here https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,251259

is actually making me less likely to settle in Thailand.

This is what I've mentioned previously and which concerns me. Yes, there's a very chilled-out vibe towards LGBTQ+ in Thailand. But you don't have the same legal protections in place as, say, Ireland and crucially for me you're not necessarily treated as a woman. I don't want to be misgendered as 'third gender.' I'm a woman. And that's the protection I'd get in Ireland.

So I'm off to Thailand next week for a consultation with my surgeon. I'll probably be out there for just a week and then I'll head to Ireland. It will be good to make a side-by-side comparison with both still fresh.

xx

Quote from: Tills on June 06, 2025, 12:05:12 AMBut you don't have the same legal protections in place as, say, Ireland and crucially for me you're not necessarily treated as a woman. I don't want to be misgendered as 'third gender.'

Factors like this will always finesse people's decisions because we are all so different and what makes a country perfect for one of us will be a poor fit for someone else. But the strength of this thread is that by highlighting which countries work for some of us and why, others will be able to make informed decisions and I think that's win-win. So power to you.

Well ... here I am. But where?

Up until a week ago I was all set to fly to Thailand. Flights, hotels, and transfers were all booked. And I was due for a consultation with Dr Sutin this Thursday.

But some sort of flu/covid lurgy struck and there was no way a long haul flight would have been advisable.

Anyway, I managed to recoup nearly all of my booking costs and I've re-scheduled my Emirates flight to the autumn for a modest fee.

So I decided instead to take a short flight over to Ireland and spend a week or two looking around, as this was the other country on my radar.

So, yes, I am in Ireland! I flew into the West of Ireland airport near Knock.

First impressions are:

1. The people are incredibly friendly. You can instantly see coming from the UK that attitudes are very different. So much more chilled and accepting of all myriads of people. It's evident that it is protective of trans rights. And that's not just about attitudes. It is enshrined in law: an important point that others on this forum have stressed.

2. It's so GREEN!! It's not called The Emerald Isle for nothing.

@Devlyn is right: it would be sooooooooooo easy for someone from the UK to come and live here. And, my, the countryside is beautiful. You can get really cheap properties if you are happy to live rurally.

I'm slightly wary of heading down the line which says that this lurgy descended on me in order to switch the points and divert me from Thailand to Ireland.

And yet ...

xx