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I've noticed this section of the forum has been a little quiet, so I wanted to reach out and create a space where we can connect, reflect, and share about our nonbinary journeys... whether you're out and proud, still questioning, or just quietly exploring your identity.

You're welcome here. No pressure to have the "right words." No need to fit any mold.

What does being nonbinary mean to you right now... in this season of your life?

Whether you're genderfluid, agender, demiboy, demigirl, bigender, or something totally unique... I'd love to hear how you're experiencing and expressing your identity.

How does it show up in your day-to-day?What's hard? What's beautiful?

If you're not sure how to start, here are some prompts you can answer (or just vibe off of):

How did you first start exploring your nonbinary identity?

What has helped you feel seen or affirmed?

How do you express your gender in ways that feel good or true?

What's something you wish more people understood about being nonbinary?

I'll be checking in regularly and would love to keep this thread going weekly or biweekly... kind of like a cozy journal space we all get to share.


~ Lilis 💗

I'm non-binary; gender fluid. I present female full time, so it's a bad day for Mike when he shows up.   :laugh:

I started crossdressing part time in my 30's. In my 40's I began a social transition, and medically transitioned in my 50's. I'm 63 now, a bit overweight but the happiest I've ever been. Oh, and add a marriage to my 50's timeline.  :)

Thanks for starting this topic.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 17, 2025, 10:54:06 AMI'm non-binary; gender fluid. I present female full time, so it's a bad day for Mike when he shows up.   :laugh:

I started crossdressing part time in my 30's. In my 40's I began a social transition, and medically transitioned in my 50's. I'm 63 now, a bit overweight but the happiest I've ever been. Oh, and add a marriage to my 50's timeline.  :)

Thanks for starting this topic.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

It is nice to be happy!

Chrissy

I see the world in non-binary terms. I find it better. Less... complicated.

As an aside, Dev, we share the same birth name. :) My mom always told me she named me after the Archangel. I never really believed in religion.

Quote from: Sephirah on May 17, 2025, 06:51:29 PMI see the world in non-binary terms. I find it better. Less... complicated.

As an aside, Dev, we share the same birth name. :) My mom always told me she named me after the Archangel. I never really believed in religion.

Extra fun fact, Megan and I shared both first and middle birth names.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 18, 2025, 04:01:00 AMExtra fun fact, Megan and I shared both first and middle birth names.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

That is wild! You are absolutely soulmates! <3

Well no, it isn't luck. I've known you a long time, @Devlyn. We've had our differences but I've always had the greatest of respect for you. Who you are and what you stand for. I know what kind of person you are. Sadly I don't know Megan quite as well, but I know she is blessed to have you in her life. :) And I suspect you are equally as blessed. <3

Quote from: Sephirah on May 18, 2025, 04:51:18 AMWell no, it isn't luck. I've known you a long time, @Devlyn. We've had our differences but I've always had the greatest of respect for you. Who you are and what you stand for. I know what kind of person you are. Sadly I don't know Megan quite as well, but I know she is blessed to have you in her life. :) And I suspect you are equally as blessed. <3

Ditto. We've had some wild differences over the years. But I ended up friends with the most unlikely of people. For instance , my elementary school bully. Guys I literally duked it out with in the barracks. There's some truth in the saying: "Respect is earned, not given." I have the utmost respect for you, our past differences play no part in that.

Yes, Megan and I refer to ourselves as Team Us.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 18, 2025, 05:01:16 AMDitto. We've had some wild differences over the years. But I ended up friends with the most unlikely of people. For instance , my elementary school bully. Guys I literally duked it out with in the barracks. There's some truth in the saying: "Respect is earned, not given." I have the utmost respect for you, our past differences play no part in that.

Yes, Megan and I refer to ourselves as Team Us.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Like Seraph said in the Matrix movies: "You do not truly know someone, until you fight them." ;) And yeah, Dev, respect is earned. Who you are, what you've done, girl you have earned my respect many times over. <3 Life isn't easy. Running this place isn't easy. And take that from someone whose been around long enough to see a few people take on the mantle. You have my respect and friendship always.

I fear that I'm about to lose your respect..... I've never seen the matrix.  :laugh: And have no desire to. I swore off movies with people dodging bullets and running up blades of grass. Suspension of belief is one thing, pure malarkey is another!

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 18, 2025, 05:14:00 AMI fear that I'm about to lose your respect..... I've never seen the matrix.  :laugh: And have no desire to. I swore off movies with people dodging bullets and running up blades of grass. Suspension of belief is one thing, pure malarkey is another!

Hugs, Devlyn

Hah, Dev, you need to watch these movies. The Wachowskis made these movies when they were known as the Brothers... they have both since come out as trans girls. And if you watch these movies through the lens of someone who is trans, and trying to figure themselves out... it makes so much more sense. In fact... it only makes sense in that context. The sisters made these movies as a way to express themselves, before they knew how to express themselves.

Maybe...but I just can't. I hate movies. I won't go in a theatre, it's much too boomy and flashy for me. That's coming from someone who primarily istens to AC/DC. And movies seem to rely on sudden changes from whispering to bombs. Pitch black to flashing lights. I hate it.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 18, 2025, 05:33:10 AMMaybe...but I just can't. I hate movies. I won't go in a theatre, it's much too boomy and flashy for me. That's coming from someone who primarily istens to AC/DC. And movies seem to rely on sudden changes from whispering to bombs. Pitch black to flashing lights. I hate it.

Hugs, Devlyn

I never go to a cinema either, Dev. Too full up of kids dosed up with diabetic amounts of sugar. Haven't been to a movie theatre in like 20 years. I have a really good TV, lol.

Watch the first one, if you can. And look at it from a lens of being different but not quite getting how. It will make sense.

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to resort to Staff overreach and delete your post. Can't have my wife seeing other people telling me to watch the matrix!  :laugh:

Hugs, Devlyn

I started having vivid dreams about a woman almost eight years ago. The dreams were so vivid I was compelled to tell her story. About 700,000 words later, I'm still trying to figure out who she is. Most of the time, I'm almost certain I'm the woman I dream about. Other times, I think she was someone I once was or will someday be. When I came out as genderfluid, few of the people closest to me batted an eye. When I decided to find out, once and for all, if I am the woman I dream about by starting HRT, all hell broke loose. My daughter still supports me. As do the people passing through Susan's. For me, that's enough.   

Quote from: Devlyn on May 18, 2025, 04:01:00 AMExtra fun fact, Megan and I shared both first and middle birth names.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Fascinating.

Hi all! I identity as non-binary, gender-fluid also. For now,anyway. My journey exploring my gender identity is confusing sometimes. It all started with a dream 4 years ago. Back then, it was just a fun, playful, prop during playtime. But, pretty quickly, I began to realize that it was touching me in ways that I have never thought possible. I now know that I am discovering who I am. Dreams were not a big part of all this, but lately I have been having a reacuring dream. I am seeing through the eyes of a woman. She is walking through a park in an urban area.when she looks down, I see that she is dressed nicely. People smile at her when she walks by. At first, I didn't know who she was. But now I know that she is me. It feels good.

Quote from: Camille58S on May 20, 2025, 05:30:33 PMI am seeing through the eyes of a woman.

Uncannily but possibly not unsurprisingly similar to my 'recurring dream.' I don't 'see' the woman; I see through her eyes.

I'm not nonbinary lol. But there's quite a bit of subject matter with regards to my reflection LOL (im calling myself ugly)

I don't really understand nonbinary identity, that's gotta be very hard living in a way totally separate from society that normally genders/sexualizes absolutely everything.

Quote from: hazelkitty on May 20, 2025, 07:20:12 PMI don't really understand nonbinary identity, that's gotta be very hard living in a way totally separate from society that normally genders/sexualizes absolutely everything.

It is not so much living separate from society's perceptions as it is recognizing that society's label does not apply to you the way that you view yourself. To a simple question like, "Are you female?", they may answer yes, no, maybe, sort of, not right now, or sometimes.

Remember that gender identity is how you view yourself, not how others see you. Maybe you don't think of yourself as a male, or a female, but maybe something in between, or even "none of the above".

Synopsis, accepted :)

Quote from: Devlyn on May 17, 2025, 10:54:06 AMI'm non-binary; gender fluid.

Same here, thank you so much for sharing this, Devlyn. I'll be following you like white on rice!  ;D

QuoteI present female full-time, so it's a bad day for Mike when he shows up.

Haha, it's been bad days for him (my_male_name) for quite a few months now too!

QuoteI started crossdressing part-time in my 30s. In my 40s, I began a social transition, and medically transitioned in my 50s.

I'm 63 now—a bit overweight, but the happiest I've ever been. Oh, and add a marriage to my 50s timeline.

Thanks for starting this topic.

Hugs,
Devlyn

So many similarities, Devlyn. Thank you again for opening up and for joining us in this thread.

Sending virtual hugs and gratitude! 💗

And thank you everyone that is reading and participating sharing your story in this conversation! 🫂


~Lilis 🫶💞

R >:-) Richard and Richelle are quite the pair.  As long as he remembers his place.

Quote from: D'Amalie on May 21, 2025, 10:52:04 AMSynopsis, accepted :)

Thank You! !

Quote from: D'Amalie on May 22, 2025, 10:07:13 AMR >:-) Richard and Richelle are quite the pair.  As long as he remembers his place.

Yes, women run this world! 💗

Oh wait.... sorry guys...  ;D


~Lilis 🫂

Quote from: Lilis on May 14, 2025, 11:22:24 PMWhat does being nonbinary mean to you right now... in this season of your life?

The short answer: being non-binary means that I don't hold with the fantasy that humanity consists of two groups, male and female, discernable at birth, that are fundamentally and immutably separate and different.  That's why I don't insist that "I am a woman," but only that "I live as a woman."

I think just about everything said about gender, and even most of the research, is pure BS, but it's part of the world I have to live in, sort of like the current US administration, so I can't just ignore it.

I live as a woman, and mainly use she/her pronouns and a traditionally feminine name, mostly because I find the male role so constricting and painful and contrary to my nature, and because, thanks to the work (and sacrifices) of feminists, the female role is now broad enough that living that way is more or less comfortable.  If there were an established "non-binary" way to live, I might have chosen that instead, but at 71 years of age, I don't have the energy to bushwhack my way through the wilderness of society's gender rules to get to a more compatible non-binary life.

The history:

I grew up in the South (USA), in a culture that I now refer to as "the Ante-Bellum South."  The spheres of men and women (and thus boys and girls) were kept separate, and gender roles were strict and enforced.  As a child, I knew boys were supposed to hate girls and anything that was labeled as "girlish," which included cooking and playing piano.  I remember in first grade (age=6) feeling that the way boys were (or were supposed to be) was kind of stupid and I ended up not having a lot to do with other boys, but I also tried to avoid being seen as "girlish," too, for obvious reasons.  As I got older, the male socialization got worse and more alienating, and I got called "queer" and "weirdo" a lot.  I think that's about when I first encountered feminism.  It fit in well with my distaste for what passed for "masculinity" and for the sexism my mother encountered on a regular basis.  It has formed the basis for a lot of how I see the world.

Over time, my feminism has gotten more and more radical, to the point that I question anything that is claimed about gender.  While I'm not ready to insist that the only differences between men and women are due to socialization, I don't think anyone has convincingly proven otherwise; our gender-essentialist culture biases all attempts to study gender differences.

That's why I don't fit in in the binary-trans femme community -- so much of what they talk about seems based in a gender-essentialist worldview, which comes across to me as like discussing geography from a flat-earth viewpoint.  I can't condemn them for that, since we are practically drowning in gender-essentialist propaganda.  Also, I'm kind of addicted to transgender stories, but so many of them are based on a "you're either a girl or you're a boy" dichotomy; a boy gets magically turned into a girl, and suddenly she is sexually attracted to boys, make-up, etc., and suddenly starts showing "girlish" mannerisms.  I remember being at the Phila. Trans-Health conference, back before COVID, and found I felt much more at-home with the non-binary folks.

Oh, and every  now and then I think, I'm thinking of myself as a man, and other times I'm thinking of myself as a woman.  But most of the time I don't even ask.

And I think when I do ask, it's because I'm looking at myself from the outside and asking, which am I?  Inside myself, I don't care, it's just this gender-essentialist world that makes me ask which I am, by that world's standards.

Quote from: Asche on May 22, 2025, 01:58:44 PMAnd I think when I do ask, it's because I'm looking at myself from the outside and asking, which am I?  Inside myself, I don't care, it's just this gender-essentialist world that makes me ask which I am, by that world's standards.

THIS. Thanks, Asche. I always enjoy your perspective, and I can relate in many ways.

What non-binary means to me? Well as an adult I could see that I can express being strong and sensitive can be part of your personality. For me being sensitive is part of my feminine aspect. I did not use non-binary until last year. After keeping a diary and going to weekly sessions I settled on non-binary as my best label. I just see myself as masculine and feminine regardless of body. I do plan to take hormones when I can. In the meantime I practice makeup and try to find nice clothes. My goal is not to cross dress as such but just to have feminine clothes as everyday wear when I choose. I mean when you look back in time women had to wear those corsets and not show any skin. If they wore trousers they were not regarded as being feminine. So times changes. Not quite sure if I'm explaining myself well. Oh yes I want to be both masculine and feminine. I'm not planning surgery. Not sure when I end up in future but I figure tomboyish could be a good start.

We have waited to let others go first. For us, being plural, our experience is both very different yet has a lot of similarities to singular non-binary people. We have a lot of the same thoughts and emotions; they are just held by our different parts.

Our sense of gender shifts depending on which of us is onstage and who is downstage in the spotlight. To the outside world this looks something like genderfluidity or some complex multi-gender identify.

Each of us has our turn being affirmed, but we have had to compromise a lot like keeping our ugly (to me and our little) beard. A good day is when we get to work from home, coding, and able to be in a dress or skirt and blouse. We have even been able to have one-on-one check-in video chats with our boss while dressed a few times. Being seen and accepted by others for who we are is very affirming like in our telehealth therapy sessions where us female parts can have the spotlight and be in control while dressed as ourself. We just wish our wife were able to be more accepting.

Being able to do some things that society considers feminine like knitting or sewing also help. But, we may be showing our age here.

Quote from: Amanda500 on May 31, 2025, 09:19:17 PMWe have waited to let others go first. For us, being plural, our experience is both very different yet has a lot of similarities to singular non-binary people.

Thank you, Amanda, for joining the conversation and sharing your experience. It's refreshing to hear a perspective that honors both the differences and the overlaps.

QuoteWe have a lot of the same thoughts and emotions; they are just held by our different parts.

Our sense of gender shifts depending on which of us is onstage and who is downstage in the spotlight. To the outside world this looks something like genderfluidity or some complex multi-gender identify.

Each of us has our turn being affirmed, but we have had to compromise a lot like keeping our ugly (to me and our little) beard.

My experience is also a plural system that is genderfluid, but my experience of gender is rooted in identity and expression, rather than dissociation.

We're both valid.... We're both deeply beautiful.

And in many ways, we both can look similar to the outside world.

But the inner architecture is different.

Thank you so much for sharing this, I think both of our illustration here helps the reader understand our experiences better.


~ Lilis 💞

Quote from: Amanda500 on May 31, 2025, 09:19:17 PMwe have had to compromise a lot like keeping our ugly (to me and our little) beard.

I have been told that a beard is the most common trigger for those of us with dysphoria. That is because it is the most prominent thing; it is on our face! For me, the beard was a defense mechanism that allowed me to camouflage my true self. After two years in therapy, I finally accepted who I am and decided the beard must go!

Clean-shaven men are not unusual. It is not in any way feminine, but it could help the two of you feel less dysphoric by not needing to see or feel it. Is this something she might accept? A small compromise perhaps?

Quote from: Lori Dee on May 31, 2025, 10:25:34 PMbut it could help the two of you feel less dysphoric by not needing to see or feel it. Is this something she might accept?

Thank you for your thoughts, but it is a bit more complicated than that for us. This is a key way our experience is different from most non-binary people and so alien to binary trans people.

It would help with our wife, but our little, me-Amanda, Maleme, and some other dormant parts have to maintain our relationships as well. In addition to still being a disguise to help hide our pluralness from the everyone but the few how know, the beard is also a symbol of our commitment that we will not abandon the male parts and that they are equal partners in the system.

I can tolerate the facial hair, but our little hates it, so we have to avoid mirrors when she is downstage. Of course, if things were up to her, we would be shaving off all of the body hair right now instead of typing this, working on getting HRT ASAP, and starting to research surgery options. Being in the middle of a girl who wants the right body and males who want to keep their junk would be exhausting without the cooperation of the others. Negotiated compromises like this help everyone trust each other.

Quote from: Amanda500 on June 01, 2025, 09:38:00 PMIt would help with our wife, but our little, me-Amanda, Maleme, and some other dormant parts have to maintain our relationships as well. In addition to still being a disguise to help hide our pluralness from the everyone but the few how know, the beard is also a symbol of our commitment that we will not abandon the male parts and that they are equal partners in the system.

That makes sense. Thank you for the explanation. I am still learning how systems like yours work, so your experiences help me with that.

Quote from: Lilis on May 14, 2025, 11:22:24 PMI've noticed this section of the forum has been a little quiet, so I wanted to reach out and create a space where we can connect, reflect, and share about our nonbinary journeys... whether you're out and proud, still questioning, or just quietly exploring your identity.

You're welcome here. No pressure to have the "right words." No need to fit any mold.

What does being nonbinary mean to you right now... in this season of your life?

Whether you're genderfluid, agender, demiboy, demigirl, bigender, or something totally unique... I'd love to hear how you're experiencing and expressing your identity.

How does it show up in your day-to-day?What's hard? What's beautiful?

If you're not sure how to start, here are some prompts you can answer (or just vibe off of):

How did you first start exploring your nonbinary identity?

What has helped you feel seen or affirmed?

How do you express your gender in ways that feel good or true?

What's something you wish more people understood about being nonbinary?

For me, being nonbinary in this season of life feels like living in the space between where my trans womanhood is the dominant expression, but there's also a deeper current of genderfluidity that reminds me I don't have to be pinned down to one fixed form.

It's both freeing and complicated.

I first started exploring my nonbinary identity when I realized that even though I identify strongly as a woman, my experience of gender wasn't linear.

There are shifts, tides, and shadows, my male self who led for 40+ years is now retreating, but he still shaped me, and I honor that.

That fluidity is part of who I am.

What helps me feel seen or affirmed is when people understand that I can be both trans and nonbinary, and that these layers don't cancel each other out.

Moments of gender euphoria, like when my body changes on GAHT, when someone recognizes me as the woman I am, or when I can fully embody my femininity, those moments affirm me.

But there's also a spiritual affirmation, in knowing Christ judges my heart, and in my connection to Mother Lilith, who helps me embrace the parts of myself that others might fear or misunderstand.

I express my gender through the details, my makeup routine, my clothes, my posture, the way I carry myself in public.

It's still a work in progress, but each little step feels like claiming space for the real me.

Sometimes it shows up in quiet ways, the way I soften my voice, or the choice not to fawn or people-please just to be accepted.

What's hard is being misgendered in public, or feeling like I'm doing everything I can to present femininely and still not being seen.

What's beautiful is the resilience I've found in that pain, and the freedom of knowing I don't have to fit anyone else's mold to be valid.

Something I wish more people understood about being nonbinary is that it isn't always about being in the "middle."

For me, it's about movement, spirit, and the truth that gender is not one static point on a line.

It's living a story that shifts and breathes, and learning to honor every season of that story.


~ Lilis 🌷

Quote from: Lilis on August 19, 2025, 02:38:23 PMSomething I wish more people understood about being nonbinary is that it isn't always about being in the "middle."

I find this very relatable.

Some people view MtF transgender as masculine -------------------------> feminine, and our transition is the journey along that dotted line. But for some of us, there is no line.

masculine               me   feminine

And my position does not seem to change, so no fluidity, but also not at the center.

It is more like looking out at a wide-open field with a single tree growing in it. That tree could be anywhere to the left, right, close, or far. It doesn't mean anything. It just is.
 :)

Dunno where I stand on this topic. For me masculinity and femininity are not opposite poles. I'm just both. Yes I'm working to be more feminine but I have been a male for over 50 plus years. I call myself nonbinary to denote I am not a MtF. I see that part of myself as helping to express and reinforce the the other part. Yeah I wanted to be both strong and sensitive even as a kid not that I could have told you why at that age.

Quote from: Lori Dee on August 19, 2025, 03:12:32 PMI find this very relatable.

Some people view MtF transgender as masculine -------------------------> feminine, and our transition is the journey along that dotted line. But for some of us, there is no line.

masculine              me  feminine

And my position does not seem to change, so no fluidity, but also not at the center.

It is more like looking out at a wide-open field with a single tree growing in it. That tree could be anywhere to the left, right, close, or far. It doesn't mean anything. It just is.
 :)

Hmmm... so in other words the field is the universe of gender possibilities, and your identity (the tree) doesn't need to sit on a spectrum or at a midpoint, it just takes its place naturally in that wide space, right?

If so, I love how your tree doesn't need to measure itself against anything else in the field, it just is.

To me, the field feels like the whole landscape of gender.

I like your reframe, Lori, and your image shows how we each get to be rooted in our own spot without having to fit on a line. 🥰

~ Lilis 🌷

Quote from: Hinoiri on August 19, 2025, 09:55:28 PMFor me masculinity and femininity are not opposite poles.

I was trying to express this, but I thought it might involve very complex Venn diagrams and If/Then Flowcharts.  ;D

Exactly what you said.

Quote from: Lilis on August 19, 2025, 10:06:53 PMTo me, the field feels like the whole landscape of gender.

I like your reframe, Lori, and your image shows how we each get to be rooted in our own spot without having to fit on a line. 🥰

This.

Yes, I am rooted closer to one side of the field than the other. Many will try to say that means this or that. By their definitions, that may be what they see. But by my own definitions, it does not. Who gets to decide which fenceline is masculine and which one is feminine, which one is intersex, and which one is transgender? It doesn't matter.

We just are.

Quote from: Hinoiri on August 19, 2025, 09:55:28 PMDunno where I stand on this topic. For me masculinity and femininity are not opposite poles. I'm just both. Yes I'm working to be more feminine but I have been a male for over 50 plus years. I call myself nonbinary to denote I am not a MtF. I see that part of myself as helping to express and reinforce the the other part. Yeah I wanted to be both strong and sensitive even as a kid not that I could have told you why at that age.

Hinoiri, thank you for sharing so openly in both of your posts. 🩷

I like the way you've taken time to reflect through journaling, therapy, and experimenting with expression before settling on "nonbinary" as the word that fits you best.

That kind of intentional exploration is inspiring. 🌱

I like how you describe masculinity and femininity not as opposites, but as parts of yourself that can reinforce and balance one another. It feels powerful to hear you say that strength and sensitivity both belong to you, and that you've known that since childhood, even before you had the language for it.

I also connect deeply with what you wrote about living decades as male and how that shapes your journey now.

For me, my male self led for 40+ years, and now my feminine self has taken the lead, but I still honor the past as part of my story.

Like you, I see these aspects not as enemies, but as companions that help give depth to who I am today.

And I liked your perspective on history, how femininity itself has changed across time.

That's a grounding reminder that what we're doing now, choosing what feels authentic (whether makeup, clothes, hormones, or no surgery at all), is part of a larger evolution of gender expression.

Thank you again for putting words to this.

It's a gift to read how each of us experiences nonbinary identity in such unique ways, yet still find threads that resonate.

~ Lilis 🌷

Lilis and Lori, thank you both for bringing this topic back to the front. I'm still very much in the process of reevaluating my gender identity, and it's rapidly become clear that the binary model of gender doesn't resonate with me.

As much as I wish I could describe my experience, thoughts, and feelings in my own unique words, I have yet to come up with anything better than what Asche has already said above:

Quote from: Asche on May 22, 2025, 01:21:55 PMThe short answer: being non-binary means that I don't hold with the fantasy that humanity consists of two groups, male and female, discernable at birth, that are fundamentally and immutably separate and different.  That's why I don't insist that "I am a woman," but only that "I live as a woman."

I think just about everything said about gender, and even most of the research, is pure BS, but it's part of the world I have to live in, sort of like the current US administration, so I can't just ignore it.

I live as a woman, and mainly use she/her pronouns and a traditionally feminine name, mostly because I find the male role so constricting and painful and contrary to my nature, and because, thanks to the work (and sacrifices) of feminists, the female role is now broad enough that living that way is more or less comfortable.  If there were an established "non-binary" way to live, I might have chosen that instead, but at 71 years of age, I don't have the energy to bushwhack my way through the wilderness of society's gender rules to get to a more compatible non-binary life.

and

Quote from: Asche on May 22, 2025, 01:21:55 PMOver time, my feminism has gotten more and more radical, to the point that I question anything that is claimed about gender.  While I'm not ready to insist that the only differences between men and women are due to socialization, I don't think anyone has convincingly proven otherwise; our gender-essentialist culture biases all attempts to study gender differences.

and

Quote from: Asche on May 22, 2025, 01:21:55 PMOh, and every  now and then I think, I'm thinking of myself as a man, and other times I'm thinking of myself as a woman.  But most of the time I don't even ask.

And I think when I do ask, it's because I'm looking at myself from the outside and asking, which am I?  Inside myself, I don't care, it's just this gender-essentialist world that makes me ask which I am, by that world's standards.

For those who are unfamiliar with gender essentialism, here's a very simplified summary from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_essentialism):

"Gender essentialism is a theory which attributes distinct, intrinsic qualities to women and men. Based in essentialism, it holds that there are certain universal, innate, biologically (or psychologically) based features of gender that are at the root of many of the group differences observed in the behavior of men and women.
...
"Alternatives to gender essentialism were proposed in the mid-20th century. During second-wave feminism, Simone de Beauvoir and other feminists in the 1960s and 70s theorized that gender differences were socially constructed. In other words, people gradually conform to gender differences through their experience of the social world. More recently, Judith Butler theorized that gender is performative. While rejected by many feminist theorists, gender essentialism sheds light on social constructs surrounding gender that are found in society as well as societal views on sex and sexuality."

For me, this feels like someone saying out loud something I've felt my entire life but never dared speak for fear that people would think I'm completely insane.

Within the last few days, I learned about the concept of Compulsory Heterosexuality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_heterosexuality):

"Compulsory heterosexuality, often shortened to comphet, is the theory that heterosexuality is assumed and enforced upon people by a patriarchal, allonormative, and heteronormative society."

Again, I thought, "YES! And this also applies to cisnormativity and just about everything else that society labels 'normal,' rendering all other behaviors aberrant." But very little of it is innate or "natural." We have been actively prevented from pursuing and expressing our true nature by the culture in which we've been raised and forced instead to conform and assimilate to "what has always been" (even though it hasn't).

Where does that put me? Like Asche, I think gender is nonsensical and largely performative. I find both male and female roles to be caricaturish and unappealing, but I find the male version to be horrifyingly so. The truth is that I don't see myself on a linear spectrum of any kind, nor do I believe one exists outside of people's minds. Still, whether I like it or not, I live in a society where people see each other through this filter. The degree to which I can abandon the system entirely directly influences the quality of connection I can have with other human beings - in myriad ways. Based solely on my preferences from the options available, I find myself trending very strongly toward what is commonly classified as feminine. But I don't seek to be perceived as being a member of any group. I just want to be true to who I am inside and find a way to live that truth in this world.

I believe we are multi-dimensional, not existing on an axis in the way that gender is conceived. I strongly recommend that everyone read the 1884 novella Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by Edwin Abbott. It describes a two-dimensional world inhabited by geometric shapes whose social roles are determined by their geometry. The protagonist has a dream of a one-dimensional world and is then visited by a three-dimensional being who shows him an entirely different view of reality. Whether we're aware of it or not, I believe that our view of our world and ourselves is limited in analogous ways.

Quote from: Pema on August 20, 2025, 02:30:56 PM"Compulsory heterosexuality, often shortened to comphet, is the theory that heterosexuality is assumed and enforced upon people by a patriarchal, allonormative, and heteronormative society."

From my past experiences, it is assumed and violently enforced. But those were the 70s. We had a few decades where people lightened up, but now we are back to the 1950s.  :(
 

Oh I remember Flatland. I loved it as a kid as I tried to grapple with how to visualize 4 dimensions. Now gender essentialism. I can see that gender roles are constructed socially. However a lot of this is internalized. Darn difficult to overcome. Now I am reminded of the Native American view of 2 spirits people. I wasn't raised in this tradition as I'm only part Native American. However this has helped me think about this differently. Hah I see that the Trump admin has to put this page back. https://www.ihs.gov/lgbt/twospirit/. Can you believe their malarkey about immutable biological realities? Man biology is nothing but mutable.

Quote from: Hinoiri on August 20, 2025, 03:32:49 PMNative American view of 2 spirits people

I just moved back to Colorado from South Dakota, where  I learned about two-spirit. The Lakota-Sioux revere two-spirit people as healers, teachers, and prophets. My neighbor explained it to me as "masculine women" and "feminine men". I think there are many of these wonderful people in the world, so I try to revere them in the same way.

I can relate to all of this. I have reached a point in my journey where I have accepted the idea that it's not " my feminine side " or " my masculine side." It's just me. I have accepted the fact that I don't feel gender in the traditional sense. Male or female , and everything in between, exists within me. I spent a lot of time watching the different sides fight it out. But now that I have learned to welcome all parts of me. And, in doing so, I found peace. I love all the ways that I am who I am. I still go by the name Camille and use feminine pronouns, but I discovered that neither male or female by themselves tells the whole story. I feel beautiful!