Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello, I'm new here and instead of boring you with my life story how I knew at the age 5 blah blah blah, that seems to be like a broken record for every TS, I'm at the point where transition has become a focal point in my life.

I'm married to a beautiful woman, have a nice home and a 7 month old son. I'm 37 years old and cannot believe this is happening to me. Things have always been hard in the past dealing with this but this time it wont go away. I'm having an "episode" and all I can think about is transitioning. I've read almost every website out there, looked at all proceedures and have actually mapped out a life. Its almost surreal but I've come to terms with what I am, and who I am finally. So do I transition or not is what I need to find out. I'm not asking anybody here because I know only I can answer that. I want to transition but I need to find out if I should. I have doubts and fears.

The fears I have are

1) Is it right for me
2) Will it make me happier
3) Will I be happy with the outcome (what I look like...I have middle of the road expecations)
4) Will the pain of losing my wife dull once I am happy with who I am?...if I am happy with who I am.
5) Being alone. So many TS women are alone. I dont know why, maybe by choice but I am a lover. I love to hug and be close to somebody.
6) Of course the fear of persecution and society that all TS face transitioning.
7) What's it going to do to my son?
8 ) Losing friends and family

To start with I'm 5' 8" and wear womens size 8 shoes, sometimes I can squeeze into 7 1/2' depending on the brand and how much chocolate I ate that day...yes I have really small feet. I have small hands and I'm thinner then I was a year ago but not at the 140-150 range I need to be at. My hair is thin on top and I'm not sure what all can be done about that other then spending thousands of dollars.

I know if I cannot pass seamlessly into society I wont make it. I'll kill myself. To lose everything only to be unhappy is not an option I'm willing to deal with.

My first thought is to see a psychologist and get my feelings sorted. Actually that is my only thought at the moment. My wife and I just came back from the therapist and basically my wife wants me to sh*t or get off the pot. She knows I cannot do that though. We are not talking about a drinkng problem, a gambling problem or something else. We are talking about changing appearences to another gender. This is the motherload of all problems in my book. Talk about confusing. Deep inside I know what I need and want to do. But honestly I just want to be normal. I want it to go away and be normal. I want to raise my son and be a good spouse.

My wife will leave if I transition. She has told me that. I understand and dont blame her. God I love her though. Its going to hurt losing her unlike any other pain I have suffered through. And I've been through more then allot of people have growing up. I just cannot believe it wont go away. I know it won't and I'm afraid to keep fighting it only to lose the battle ten years down the road and face it when I'm 47.

Are there any transexuals that have never transitioned? I cannot find any and I'm pretty good at finding things on the internet. Is there a point where you just have to give in because this episode I'm having now is pretty intense. Its affecting my daily life. Transitioning is ALL I think about. All I want to do is take hormones and start being myself.

On the flip side, my life is not bad. I have a good job, a wife, house, son and do the daily grind and its not that bad. I dont hate it, yet I'm not happy. But then again I'm not all that unhappy. I know unless you are happy with yourself you can never be really happy. Is being true to yourself and being satisfied with who you really are all that important? Is it worth it? So many questions and so little time. My innerself feels time squeezing in on her and knows that she wants to get out while she is still semi young.
I'm sorry for dumping all this on this forum but I really need the support. I've read many posts in here and it I feel like this is the place I may just stay for a while.

There are so many negatives that just seem to outweight the positives. Only positives I can think of are I get to be myself for once and get rid of this gender dysphoria problem I have. So much to sacrifice. It seems so selfish wich is not my natural state of being. I've always been giving and selfless.

Lori

Lori, first of all let me say WELCOME to Susan's.  I think it's wonderful that you've found us.

I'm in very much the same boat as you although I'm 13 years older and I stand to loose as much as you although my children are grown and out of the house.  My strategy is that I'm seeing a gender specializing psychologist with the goal of feminizing in small steps (and not just physically) to see, 1) how far do I need to go to ease my pain to the point where I can live with it and 2) can I go slowly and have my significant other get used to the idea in small doses without feeling the need to leave.  The therapist will help me find if this is right for me and, with his experience, may be able to help in the nuts and bolts issues because he has seen it before.

I know this is a gamble, I may be hindering myself and could loose her anyway and I feel it's very much worth the try.  Every day I feel a little more tense, a little more depressed and anxious.  I'm "accidentally" coming out to people in small ways all the time now.  I don't know if I'll make it.  But I know if my pain gets bad enough, the pangs and troubles of transition will be better than the pains or worse if I don't.

I have a lot of male pattern hair loss.  I use a wig, $1,000's is not an option for hair replacement (they're going to the therapist and other care givers).  Electrolysis and facial surgery can help you pass, the changes that hormones can bring about will help too.  You don't have to be perfect, do you?  The Wiki, as well as the links and library, here at Susan's is very good if you need info on that kind of stuff.  A gender specialist should be able to point you towards a support group where you can meet and perhaps befriend people who have gone through the same things you have. 

And you'll never be truly alone as long as you continue to visit here at Susan's.  We have a wonderfully diverse and supportive on-line community here thanks to the great people and the easy to follow site rules.  Use this site as another outlet for yourself and join in where you can.  I'll look forward to reading more from you and am again happy to say,

WELCOME!
helen

Quote from: Lori on March 02, 2006, 08:42:19 PM



The fears I have are

1) Is it right for me
2) Will it make me happier
3) Will I be happy with the outcome (what I look like...I have middle of the road expecations)
4) Will the pain of losing my wife dull once I am happy with who I am?...if I am happy with who I am.
5) Being alone. So many TS women are alone. I dont know why, maybe by choice but I am a lover. I love to hug and be close to somebody.
6) Of course the fear of persecution and society that all TS face transitioning.
7) What's it going to do to my son?
8) Losing friends and family

You might want to read this post I made earlier  >> https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,1948.msg14886.html#msg14886

 

Quote
I know if I cannot pass seamlessly into society I wont make it. I'll kill myself. To lose everything only to be unhappy is not an option I'm willing to deal with.

With this statement you might as well forget transitioning.  Seamless will not happen ever.  Family, friends, employment, everything in your life has the potential to cause your plans to unravel.

My first thought is to see a psychologist and get my feelings sorted. Actually that is my only thought at the moment. My wife and I just came back from the therapist and basically my wife wants me to sh*t or get off the pot. She knows I cannot do that though. We are not talking about a drinkng problem, a gambling problem or something else. We are talking about changing appearences to another gender. This is the motherload of all problems in my book. Talk about confusing. Deep inside I know what I need and want to do. But honestly I just want to be normal. I want it to go away and be normal. I want to raise my son and be a good spouse.

QuoteAre there any transexuals that have never transitioned?

I am sure that every cemetary has more than a few.  Some of old age and some by their own hand.

QuoteThere are so many negatives that just seem to outweight the positives. 

You just answered your own question about transition.  When the scale swings the other way then you might consider it.

Leigh

Hello Lori.

Wow... Welcome to Susan's.  You are going through the turmoil that many here have endured and are still enduring.  And the questions that you are asking can only be answered by you.  There is absolutely one guarantee, and that is there is no guarantee that transition will make you happy.  I can guarantee that it will change your life forever, and if that is what you think will make you happy then you need to see a therapist who specialises in these gender issues.  You have a lot to loose and one question you have to ask yourself is can you afford to loose, your wife, family, and friends, and still be happy.  Your wife has already stated that she will not be there if you transition, so before you make such a life changing decision you need to be in therapy.

You mentioned that you and your wife just came back from the therapist, what type of therapist?

1) Is it right for me -
  If your are a transsexual then it would be right for you - but it may not be good for you.

2) Will it make me happier
  There are absolutely no guarantees, even if it was right for you and it is good for you.

3) Will I be happy with the outcome (what I look like...I have middle of the road expectations)
Beauty in in the eye of the beholder, however what you look like has no bearing on who you are, and this should not be a reason to transition or not    to transition as looks have nothing to do with being a woman.


4) Will the pain of losing my wife dull once I am happy with who I am?...if I am happy with who I am.
  The pain may dull over loosing your wife, but what about your son and the rest of your family, those pains may never go away.

5) Being alone. So many TS women are alone. I don't know why, maybe by choice but I am a lover. I love to hug and be close to somebody.
  This is a very real risk that you must be willing to face

6) Of course the fear of persecution and society that all TS face transitioning.
  It goes with the territory

7) What's it going to do to my son?
Cool Losing friends and family[/quote]
  See 4 above

Just by asking yourself the above questions shows that you need to see a therapist, and yes you are right there are transsexuals who do not transition because of the risks you've spoken about.  You seem to be very happy in that "Your life is not bad" so is there a compromise that will satisfy you and your wife and allow you both to be happy?  Definitely something to discuss, and probably a starting point since you don't seem to be able to "sh*t or get off the pot".

I'm sure that there will be others who will be able to add to my comments, as I have only skimmed the surface, so I hope that you stay around, we are here to help as best we can.

Steph

I must say Leigh is a no BS straight to the gut no nonsence gal. I like and admire that. What I meant as far as passing seamlessly into society (poor choice of words) is just going out as myself and being accepted as a woman in places that didnt know me. Such as going out to eat, shopping, going to a movie or whatever. I know on the job and at home that is out of the question.

If you make it through the first five years after surgery count yourself among the lucky 50% ( or so I have been told).

I've been told the percentage of success is much higher. I'm not sure where the 50% factor comes in. I would think after debating, going to therapy and deciding this is what needs to be done the success rate would be higher then 50% I could not imagine anybody doing this with doubts. And I do agree that once you start....there is no going back. You start it to finish or dont start at all. I am trying to find that out and double check before I even think about starting. I know my decision at the end will be final so I have to make sure its what is best for me.

Stepanie, yes I'm Transexual. I have two therapists that agree with me. Dr. Rita Cotterly and Dr. Carolyn Long http://www.sexualtherapy.com/therapists/clong.htm (http://www.sexualtherapy.com/therapists/clong.htm). You can do a google on them and find out all kinds of things about them. Yes transition would be right for me, I know it. I just dont know that it would be good for me. I know there are no guarentees and there is where my hesitation comes out the most. Will I be employed, will I be happy looking in the mirror at my new self, will my son accept me. I know I wont lose my son. My wife would not do that to me nor would I abandon him without child support.

HelenW

Its a tough boat to be in and mine is starting to rock. I've been on hormones several times and this time my wife has stated that my commitment to hormones this time would tell her its a commitment to transistion and that would be her final straw and we would split. So I have avoided them although they are calling to me me louder and harder then ever before. I'd kill for 1 little blue pill right now. There would be no baby steps. My wife would be willing to accept me as a crossdresser, nothing more. No electrolysis, no hormones, no FFS. I'd be able to shave my body and tan and go out on occasion dressed. If that is not good enough then ...well .... you know. She knows inside as well as I do that clothes do not make you a woman. Maybe we are both putting off the inevitable..clinging to hope that I can keep this under control. I am what I am and we both know it. All transexuals have to transition at some point. Its to what level we do it that seperates us. Some need the full deal, some can get by on hormones alone, others need more or less. I guess I need to find if just dressing up and getting into the local TS meetings will do it for me.

And yes I will go find that psychologist and get my feelings sorted.

Lori

I was in a very similar situation. Married, good job, settled in life. 42 years old. And suddenly transition became an imperative.

One of my things too, was passing "seamlessly". I have a job in which it would be very awkward to be in between. What I did was set a date at which I would transition, if I was ready. Turned out, about 3 weeks before that, people started reading me as male, even though I was dressed female.

Then, when I did the transition, it went roughly ok, although people took me for a young boy rather more than I'd like, but generally, socially with strangers, everyone took me as male. Now, there's no question with strangers, but I live in a small town. Many people know. It's been only 13 months since I started hormones and just 6 since I started presenting as male, and sometimes they forget that not everyone knows. So seamless isn't really possible. But I am comfortable with myself and I feel right for the first time in my life since puberty.

And my wife also told me she'd leave me if I transitioned. I did. She did. It was painful, but the joy of being myself finally more than made up for it.

Dennis

Only you can decide what will be right for yourself.  This can be a rough journey and there are no guarantees for happiness.  Hormones and transition will not solve all of your problems and I have found those who think differently do not stay alive for too terribly long.

Are there transsexuals who have not transitioned?  Yes, I have talked to a few.  Their reasons range from medical to not willing to throw everything away at a chance of happiness.  Are they happy?  I have no idea.  The last one I talked to over a year ago said that he is doing pretty well and this is someone who was just about ready to go fulltime.

As for setting conditions.  I did the same.  I decided that if I could not pass that I would not go through everything.  Deep down I never thought I could pass but, much to my (and a few others) surprise I do pretty damn well.

Good luck in your journey.

Hi Lori:

Okay here's my 2 cents from an SO's point of view. 

Is this fair is another question that you should be asking.  Fair to both of you. 

Here's a scenario:
Let's progress 10 years.  You are (maybe) in a marriage that you don't want to be in.  You've been arguing with your spouse for the past 10 years about this situation and now your son is 10 years older as well.  Who is more miserable......you, your spouse or your son? 

I know of what I speak, believe me.  I understand when your spouse says S**t or get off the pot. 

I don't mean to be hard on you about this, and I understand you have all of these thoughts flying around in your head/heart and you are truly at a crossroad in your life.  But you need to explore this and to determine which road you are going to be travelling on.  Then make your decision(s), accepting the consequences of those decisions.  You have to recognize those consequences and come to terms with them.

You quote
"My wife will leave if I transition. She has told me that. I understand and dont blame her. God I love her though. Its going to hurt losing her unlike any other pain I have suffered through. And I've been through more then allot of people have growing up. I just cannot believe it wont go away. I know it won't and I'm afraid to keep fighting it only to lose the battle ten years down the road and face it when I'm 47. "

To not proceed on the fear she may leave is selfish, for her to say she will leave if you do transition is selfish.  Correct me if I am wrong but this sounds a little blackmailish to me and perhaps not the strongest reason to stay together? 

Sounds like you truly care about each other, so much more discussion/communication is needed between the two of you and with a gender therapist who could perhaps act as a go-between if the communication gets heated.

You can come out the other side of this in one piece and communication is the key to all of this.  You may be a bit bruised but you can survive this, truly.

I hope I am not sounding too much like a looney tune here and I hope the above gives you some food for thought.

Gill

Hi Lori,
To not fear transition would be like not fearing a car driving towards you.  But life is strange.  Sometimes, when you think the car is going to hit you, it veers away at the last instant.  You fear your wife leaving you.  That may or may not happen.  My girlfriend (who I'd lived with for 21 years) threatened to kill herself if I transitioned and had an operation (she was never prone to over-reaction and was always logical before this).  Some days, she'd be nice.  Other days, she'd proclaim, "I'm not a lesbian."  The angst between us became so painful (she called transsexualism "a lifetime mental illness") that I ended up breaking up with her.  I loved her but the pain between us was too much.

She moved out and I helped her find an apartment.  I even helped her move.  Since moving out, she became - again - my best friend and, now that she didn't live with me, someone who felt no need to criticize me.  We'd get together every weekend, go shopping, have lunch -- just as before - the best of friends.  To her surprise, strangers all assumed I was female.  She realized that, though she still thought of me as a man, others saw only an average woman (the picture is me on a good day!) She didn't know how to load pictures on a dating site so I took pictures of her and got them onto the site.  Through this, she found someone 3000 miles away who she became friends with and has now married.  She moved back east and we still talk daily on the phone -- the best of friends.

There's a sadness that it didn't work out, of course.  In so many ways, we were alike.  We both enjoyed architecture and the same foods, movies and TV shows. 

If you can live with the possibility that your wife may become, instead, a good friend, then perhaps this part of transition might work out.  If you can't live not living with her (and she remains definite in her non-approval), then that leads you in another direction.  To a certain extent, her threat of leaving you could be real or it could be a strategy (like my friend's threat of suicide).  Non of us - including your wife - knows how it will play out.

You will probably think different things at different times of your life.  Sometimes, after a battle, people ask soldiers, "If you knew you would lose a leg to conquer that hill, would you still do it?"  Most of the tiime, they respond, "Yes!"  I always am confused by that answer.  Would any hill be worth losing my leg?  As has been stated by others, risky decisions have no right or wrong answer.  We can tell you how it worked for us, but truthfully, we don't know how it'll work for you.

I hear of some post-op TS's in this room whose wives have stayed with them -- the wife loves the person, not the (male or female) body.  I wish my best friend had been like that.  Sometimes I wonder if I hadn't forced my best friend to leave if she would have gradually become more tolerant of the transition.  It's a question I (and she) will never know the answer to...some "hands" need to be played out.  You will never truly know the answers to your questions until you "play them out."  Nobody thought the horse Seabisquit or the fighter "Cinderella Man" would win.  I understand fully that you're winning some things could mean losing a lot of other things.  Not all "hands" can be won.  Has all the pain of my transition been worth it?  Most days, it is, some days - I won't kid you - it isn't. 

Life isn't a perfect thing.

Teri Anne

I've thought and been through in my mind many of the things that have been brought up.

I will say my wife has said to me, and I quote, "I am to shallow and vain of a person to live with you if you transition." Losing her is a definite should I transition. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Am I prepared for that? Yes, in a way that I know once I begin to see my real self appear my happiness inside would overshadow what I feel in time. I would rather spend the rest of my life with her and I would never stop loving her. I could only hope we would be best friends and go shopping and doing things together. I think much of that would depend on how society viewed me and how well I looked. (like I said she is very vain and admits it) I am not prepard to lose my son and I won't. He would just have two mommies I suppose and since he is so young it is better that way.

No, my main fears after transition, even though they could be considered unfounded, are the persecution of society, being unhappy with my decision, and getting killed by god fearing bigots. I realise friends come and go and I may not like the same people once I begin living as myself and Lori will make new friends. Relatives on the other hand would be much tougher. I suppose if my Mom accepted me then I would be fine and everyone else could kiss my butt. I've lived my life the way they wanted me to for them long enough. I understand it's now time to live life the way I need and want to. My problem in life has been my extreme selflessness. I have never been selfish and this is being selfish to an extreme. To push everybody and everyone aside and do just for me and expect them to deal with it whether they like it or not. How they deal with it is up to them, but to force it on them, is selfish. I know I have to be that in order to transition.

My biggest fear is doing it and saying..whups..I made a mistake. This is not what I really wanted or needed. There is no going back once the wife has left, the house is sold, and jobs are altered, the changes from hormones have reshaped the body, electrolysis, and surgery. Whats done is done and boy howdy that would be a huge mistake to be wrong about. I know I'm the only one that can ever answer that question. I just need guidance and professional help to help me make the best decision for myself. My wife did say I need to do what I need to do for ME. Not her. Stop thinking about her and find out what I need to do so we can stop pussyfooting around and get on with our lives either together or apart.

Lori

This thread brings up something tangentially...

I've read in several places an attitude that some Natal Females have that a TS female can never be a 'woman', because we can never fully experience every aspect of whatever they are defining womanhood to be.  I even heard this recently from a Natal Female I'm out to.

Now, when I decided I MUST transition, I took all this into account.  One of my fantasies was that I had been born a 100% Natal Female who was fertile and capable of bearing children.  But, of course, as one born into a male body, this option is not yet possible to me, and I don't believe that reincarnation would do me any good.  My luck I'd get my wish for a female body, but end up with a male brain! 

Anyway, even though I couldn't get the 100% solution, I decided I need to pursue what I can get -- even if that meant that there would always be a percentage of Natal Females who would never accept me, and would always be ready to remind me that while I may look sorta' like a female, and wear female clothes, and had my genitalia surgically re-arranged to look and perform like female genitalia, and had grown breasts, that I was not, and never would be, a 'Woman', and they would never accept me as such and let me into their clubhouse.

I don't need their permission.

I also mention the above to point out that the argument is used as a means of exerting control.  It's a variation on the monkey-trap gourd.

Lori, What does your heart tell you you must do?  And, how much are you willing to sacrifice to pursue that?  And remenber, not $#!^ing and getting off the pot is also a choice/action.  And its an action you may be WANTING to choose and are choosing to do it.  If you look deep in yourself and you decide that transition means more to you than your relation with your spouse, be honest and tell her (if you're ready to deal with the repercussions.)  She may tell you you are being selfish.  Yes.  She may say she'll leave if you go through with it.  You don't want that to happen, but you're willing to accept it if it does.  If another person can prevent you from doing something that you have a strong desire to do, than that person has control over you, and I will argue that that control over you is not a good thing and is unhealthy.

Okay, I'm about out of steam (I can't coherently frame the other ideas I want to express  :( )

Hope this helps;

Haz

QuoteI've read in several places an attitude that some Natal Females have that a TS female can never be a 'woman', because we can never fully experience every aspect of whatever they are defining womanhood to be.

We had this discussion in another thread but it's worth repeating. So if a natal woman is born without a womb or filopian tubes and never has a mensas then by their logic these natals are not and never will be true women and thus cannot be members of the "club". 

I wouldn't give people with that attitude any credibility. I have female friends who knew me before and they accept me fully so there  :-*.

Cassie

Hi Lori, some (subjective) responses to your post....

Lori: "my wife has said to me, and I quote, "I am to shallow and vain of a person to live with you if you transition."
Response:  Again, could be a sentence to try to control (or save) you.

Lori:  "Am I prepared for that? Yes, in a way that I know once I begin to see my real self appear my happiness inside would overshadow what I feel in time."
Response:  There are no guarantees, but you're thinkiing things out of the way things may be.  It's a first and necessary step.

Lori:  I could only hope we would be best friends and go shopping and doing things together. I think much of that would depend on how society viewed me and how well I looked. (like I said she is very vain and admits it)"
Response:  My ex has always placed incredible importance on how others look upon her.  She grew up in a Jewish family (she's agnostic now) and knows bigotry firsthand.  Your wife, perhaps, will change your opinion as strangers presume you're a woman.  It's unfortunate that your wife hates the idea of your electrolysis.  There are few things more powerful of making genetic males look more female than facial electrolysis.  Some women hate kissing men with prickly beards.  Perhaps you can suggest that your kisses will not be as painful if your stubble is gone?

Lori:  "My main fears after transition, even though they could be considered unfounded, are the persecution of society, being unhappy with my decision, and getting killed by god fearing bigots."
Response:  Again, all these fears are very rational though, in reality, may or may not happen.  Being killed by "god fearing bigots," in particular, is improbable unless you "walk the streets" at 2AM.  Sure, terrible things happen, but bad things often happen to ordinary people. Perhaps, since you seem insecure (not uncommon) you need to try crossdressing away from your city and people who would recognize you.  You'll probably find, as most TS's find, that if you give clues like breasts and longish hair (a wig), people really don't examine others that closely.  Your attitude can often mean the difference between "passing" and not.  I've never been one to wear overtly feminine clothes.  You could probably wear some of your casual male clothes -- the wig and breasts (a bra) would clue people in.  Needless to say, dressing in an overt feminine fashion can bring on the looks that you fear.

Lori:  Relatives on the other hand would be much tougher. I suppose if my Mom accepted me then I would be fine and everyone else could kiss my butt. I've lived my life the way they wanted me to for them long enough."
Response:  So much of what you say is an echo of what we all felt.  How does your mom feel?  Mine. despite my fears, came to defend me.  You may want to ask your mom, or relatives, what do they want for you?  Most of the time, they will respond that they want you to be happy.  Explain then, that being female is who you are and this is what makes you happy.  They will, perhaps, try to argue, in an effort to "protect" you.  How firm you are will determine their acceptance.  If you are unsure, your wife, your mom, your relatives - anyone who loves you - will try like heck to convince you to back away.

Lori: "My problem in life has been my extreme selflessness. I have never been selfish and this is being selfish to an extreme."
Response:  Yes, but loving yourself is also important.  Men are taught, from childhood, to be selfless, to step in front of the truck to protect your loved ones. This makes it very hard for M2F's to transition. Remember the saying, "smile and the world smiles with you?"  If people see you're happy, they will mellow out.  You are, as you say, "forcing it on them."  It's unfortunate, but so is being gay or any number of societally different outlooks.  No matter how it seems to you, you're not hurting them on purpose.  My ex, despite her angst, knew that to be a non-issue.  She knew we had always protected one another and knew I was literally trapped.

Lori: "My biggest fear is doing it and saying..whups..I made a mistake. This is not what I really wanted or needed."
Response:  Well, I lived your worst nightmare:  "the wife has left, the house is sold, and jobs are altered, the changes from hormones have reshaped the body, electrolysis, and surgery. Whats done is done and boy howdy that would be a huge mistake to be wrong about."

And I survived.  The biggest discovery many TS's find, upon transitioning, is that there really isn't as huge a difference between the genders as we thought.  The main difference between males and females is, essentially, how we are treated and what freedoms we have.  I find much greater freedom to express my emotions (crying at a movie is no longer a "wuss" thing).  I can touch and hug people I meet for the first time without them thinking that I'm trying to "cop a feel."  Hugging is a great joy to me. 

I remember, as a man, feeling like I was a suspect.  Women take things into stores and can't imagine anyone asking them if they're trying to shoplift.  I had an image, as a man, that all women thought we were beer-guzzling football-watching non-emotional neandertals.  In dating some men, post op, I was surprised at how many men I dated were sexually pushy - they didn't seem to mind that they were, by their actions, acting out their neanderthal stereotypes.

I generally wear pants and casual clothes.  The main reason I transitioned was to get rid of that thing I abhored seeing when I took a shower.  It was not about clothes, or makeup or things people presume TS's transition to get

Lori:  "I just need guidance and professional help to help me make the best decision for myself."
Response:  I don't have as much faith in psychologists as others in this room but that's purely my subjective opinion.  But perhaps group counseling might help your wife become more tolerant.  I never asked for my ex for approval of my actions, only tolerance/ acceptance.  To this day, my ex presumes that being TS is an incurable obsession. 

Lori:  "My wife did say I need to do what I need to do for ME. Not her. Stop thinking about her and find out what I need to do so we can stop pussyfooting around and get on with our lives either together or apart."
Response:  Despite her threat of leaving you, this shows she still cares and loves you.  They say "time heals all wounds."  My ex wouldn't see me for several months after the split-up.  And now we're friends.

It was a roll of the dice, with a hunch that her intelligence would win out her fears.  Consider taking "baby steps."  And rest assured, there are many post op TS's, despite publicly stated sureness, that wonder if we've done the right thing.  Being post op can simply mean trading some dysphoria angst for another type of angst.  My current angst is that, in dating, I still prefer women.  This means that I have to find a lesbian...well, lesbians like lesbians which, by default, I am now.  As a guy, I felt I was living a lie.  And now, as a woman, I have to someday confess to a woman I love that I have a secret (a male past).  I've fallen in love two times now since being post op (1999).  In both cases, I hoped I would be living with them for the rest of my life.  They professed to love me in the same way.  Upon finding out my past, though, they left me.  That's an untalked about problem -- love after transition.  Many lesbians don't consider us to be "real" women.  Dating me, they worried if they were "bi."  It's the same fear a guy has of dating me -- does this mean they are secretly gay?  It's ridiculous and I only bring it up to assure you that, in some post-op lives, there is still uncertainty.  I've decided to move to Washington state to a community where only a handful of friends will know me.  In the end, this is the best answer for me...

So far.  'Till the next day.

Teri Anne

Gender IS between the ears, not the legs. A vagina does not make a woman any more then a penis makes you a man. You are defined by your actions and your actions come from what is between your ears. Society has simply made the labels based on what can be seen. Uneducated, fear, sacred religious teachings all have taught society what sex and gender is. Educated, intelligent people know there is more to a man/woman, male/female then body parts. If a woman has a hysterectomy is she no longer a woman? There are boyish woman, and girlish ones as well. There are women that chew tobacco and ride horses and others that would not be caught dead in a pair of pants. The flexibility of womanhood is certainly a bonus.

To judge and say who is a woman and who isnt, take a looong hard look at Janet Reno. Then look at Leslie Townsend and if neither of them where famous, and nobody knew about Leslie's past, then who would be more accepted in main stream society?

Sometimes I seriously believe its all about appearence and the better you look, the worse it can be. GG's do it to each other. They are their own worst critics. Jealousy is bad, and its horrible when they are jealous of you.

Only way I could say that I would never make it 100% is chromosones. Since I'm not going to let them take my DNA and have it tested, I won't worry about that.

QuoteOnly way I could say that I would never make it 100% is chromosones.

Again this is no indicator either. A man can have XX or XY or XYX or any other combination and still be physically male. Same with women. So what defines a woman?

Topic: What do you think makes the Female?
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2108.0.html

Cassie

Hi Lori

I am Caroline I new to Susan to and have found the girls to be very supportive in an emonitional time.

We all share the pain you are feeling and one thing about life is that everyone is different and we all bring our own set of issues with us.


Seeing a therapist is your first port of call, why cause pain before you need to or are ready to deal with it, once you start down this road on a serious level, well it like its very hard to put tooth past back in the tube.

I really hope you do stay here you will find some wonderful friends, there are two who have replyed to you, they will know who they are which hold a special place in my heart.

This what you are going through is no easy, and at the end of day the choice is yours which does nothing to take the pressure off, but we can be here for you with an ear to listin and a shoulder to cry on.

Love


Caroline


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you Teri Anne for your long and very informitive post. I think I read it three times already   ;D
My mom lives in Canby Oregon (30 miles south of Portland) and she is moving to Washington State sometime in the near future. It is absolutley beautiful up there. I've been to Mt. St. Helens three times since it blew up.

Hello Caroline, yes I'm seeing a therapist now. Both wife and I are. Next step is the psychologist. I received your PM but for some reason I am not able to reply to it nor am I able to send one.

Anyone at this board can email me at my profiles addy until I can figure out what is going on with my account here.

I just recieved an email from one of the admins and It will be resolved soon. Thank you Leigh  ;)

Thanks for the kind comments, Lori.  I'm happy you found it informative.  I think all of us in this room walk a fine line, not knowing what to say exactly to someone who's thinking of transitioning.  There are risks and we'd love to spare you the hurt we've experienced.  Unfortunately, you can feel pain and angst no matter which choice you choose: fully transitioning, crossdressing, or just remaining as you are.   

We know (as you, I'm sure, do) that the sooner you transition, the more successful the transition can be physically.  I was in my mid-thirties (like you) when I started seriously pondering transition.  I went to a few TG meetings.  It wasn't until ten years later, after reading a lot on the TG internet sites, that I finally drew up the courage.  Like you, I faced a recediing hairline.  I wore a wig for years until I could afford hair transplants.  The wig made me feel like a fake woman and was uncomfortable.  I hated dating with the wig because I feared my date reaching up and touching my "hair."  Even if they were accepting, I dreaded my own image in the mirror and feared how I would ever go to bed with a man or a woman.

Many internet love sites have people stressing "no lies."  I had a double whammy - my past manhood and my hair.  Over time, I came to feel better about myself (thru estrogen, hair transplants, SRS, facial surgery, electrolysis).  Each thing helps.  You wonder how you'll ever have the money.  Like others, I found it by not spending it on other things.  It's truly a question of priorities.  I wanted the angst of being a pseudo-woman (my vision of myself) to end ASAP.  And until there is solid medical evidence proving the legitimacy of transsexualism there are some post ops, like me, that will, on rare days, wonder if I've talked myself into thinking I'm female when it's all really a lot of huuey.  The famous eye doctor/tennis player Renee Richards pondered that and came to the conclusion (like my ex did) that it's an incurable obsession.  If a famous doctor (who obviously knows a lot about medicine) can feel that, who knows what the real reality is?

Having been through it, post ops experience the good and bad of transition.  At first, you're nervous as hell, thinkiing people are looking at you.  You acclimate, over time, realizing that people just look around -- people like staring at people.  The bad experiences (loss of loved one, home, job, family) make us, who have lived through it, wary of encouraging anyone to follow our path.  You've shown yourself to be very knowledgeable about these dangers.  You've done your homework.

Thanks for telling me about Washington.  It sounds like a beautiful place.  So much better than L.A.!  I get great peace from nature.  Perhaps, up there, I can find someone who likes the same.  If you do end up, like me, with an ex (yes, it's sad) and trying to date women, there's another concern...how the heck do lesbians find one another?  It's not as easy to locate possible partners as when you're hetero and you just look for the opposite of you.  The internet, for me, seems to be filled with people who just want sex.  I want more than that.

Like in "Transamerica," you just try your best and hope things work out.  As Maude said in the feature film "Harold And Maude":  "Reach out, take a chance.  Get hurt even.  But play the game as well as you can.  L-I-V-E, live.  Otherwise, you have nothing to talk about in the locker room."  Good luck in whatever path you choose.

Hugs,
Teri Anne

Quote from: Teri Anne on March 04, 2006, 11:04:58 PM
and trying to date women, there's another concern...how the heck do lesbians find one another?  It's not as easy to locate possible partners as when you're hetero and you just look for the opposite of you.  The internet, for me, seems to be filled with people who just want sex.  I want more than that.

Sometimes I think people try to hard. There is someone for everyone on this planet. Sometimes it takes a little time to find that someone and often they are much closer and more accessible then you every dreamed. It could be somebody you just met, or somebody you have known for a long time. Relationships take time to build. Talking and chatting can lead to meeting and other things. The internet is wonderful for meeting like minded people and starting relationships. I just watched a Discovery Health Channel show last night that had been copied to DVD (Therapist gave it to my wife and I) that showed two MTF TS living together in San Fransisco and where very happy. Give it time and dont try to hard. Somebody will love you for who you are, not what you where. You are very beautiful and eloquent. You have a lot to offer. I find that for all the closed minded people out there that there are just as many if not more open minded people. Fall for the heart and mind and the rest will come naturaly. There is no doubt I'd be a lesbian if I crossed over, maybe a little bi just to try out the new parts out of curiosity.


I believe I'm going to stay at this forum for a while. So many kind people here, men and women with vast experience.

So let me tell you a little more about myself. About 3 years ago I went to see my first Gender Therapist and was put on hormones through an Endo. I was already self medicating prior to that and decided to go about it legally and with a prescription. After 4 months I got scared and went off of them and purged everything for the umpteenth time in my life. I threw away clothes, pills, shoes...everything. Gee I was cured!!! I had no reason to pursue that life. I called my Therapist and told her this is not what I wanted. I wonder now if feeling so normal and fine because of the hormones is what lead me to believe I felt cured. It lasted about 3 years and now I'm back to square one with a son now.

I realise now there is no cure but death or transition. How far to take transition depends on me and how far I need to go to be at peace with myself. Hence I really need a psychologist to help me sort my feelings. It may mean I can get by just crossdressing and doing it part time and still living as I am now. It may mean I need to crossover. I want to find out by the end of the year. I need to do that for myself because of age, and for my wife for her sake. I dont want to fight this and end up ten years from now giving in to it. I am what I am and now I have accepted it. Its time now for me to come up with a solution and deal with it.

Lori

Quote from: Teri Anne on March 04, 2006, 11:04:58 PM
how the heck do lesbians find one another?  It's not as easy to locate possible partners as when you're hetero and you just look for the opposite of you.

Think womencentric events.

A womens soft ball game, soccor, bars for women, lectures on feminism, college classes that center around empowerment of women.  There are women only outdoor groups, hiking, fishing, camping.  Women only retreats, spirituality classes, yoga organizations.  Health clubs if you are physically able (post op) to fully use the facilities.

Look into groups like a womans gardening group, sewing, cooking.  Volunteer work for a local GLBT rights group, aids hospice, Gay Pride events.  A ny where 10 or more women gather chances are at least one is family.

If nothing else, an HRC decal and a rainbow kittie on your car.  Jewlery that is Lesbian specific.  I wear a necklace with a pendant of two interlocked Venus symbols.  Its called advertising  ;D

Leigh



The possibilities are endless if you look around.

Hey Lori,

I'm not sure how much help I can be because I'm not in the same situation, since I'm still young and transtioning while in high school. The only suggestion I have for you is to read a book called She's Not There if you haven't already, its about a male to female who went through a very similer situation that you are now going through. I think it may help you and if you can get your wife to read it too, it may help things between the two of you. It talks about how talk about things with your kids to make it easier for them and everything. Thats my only suggestion, otherwise just keep talking to the other people who have been through this too.

Good Luck On Your Journey! Whatever you decided to do.

-Love always, Lessa

Hi all!

Lori's spouse here. I have to say I very much appreciate this site and all who post. You all have such insight and wisdom.

So I don't accidentally switch pronouns in mid-dialog and to keep my train of thought, I'm going to stick with what and who I know--my husband, he, him... First, some more history. We have known each other since 1996. We were both married to different people then. I have two girls (now 10 and 7) from my first marriage and they have always lived with me/us. He had no kids with his first wife. He thought he was sterile. His ex remarried and promptly got pregnant so it seemed his diagnosis was correct.

A little backtracking... During our friendship and developing courtship (much of it over ICQ), we divulged our innermost secrets. He told me he was a crossdresser. I said "You're just trying to make me feel better about my secret." No, he was for real. I think I was already in love with him, though I put him off because we were both married. But as our marriages were failing and our connection was growing, it seemed we were meant to be together. After our divorces, we explored his crossdressing. I saw him in full dress, painted his toenails, even did his makeup once. I decided that clothes are harmless. The makeup washes off. He could dress up, and I could still have a man.  I could live with this. He's a good man, too, and is willing to commit to me and to the girls–-a ready-made family. **After reading my initial post, my husband wants me to add that he was taking hormones off and on during the year we were dating. Was I "okay" with it then? Maybe naive is a better word.**

We married on St. Patrick's Day 2001. (No, I did not wear a green wedding dress.) About a year later he said "I'm afraid I'm more than a crossdresser." So we explored that. Indeed, he was (is) a transsexual. He saw a gender therapist and an endocrinologist and got on hormones. He came out to the office manager and to one of the doctors we work for. He was serious. He seemed thrilled with his transforming body--his soft skin, his rounding butt, his growing breasts. But I had problems. I told him I was not okay with the breasts and that at some point I would have to call it quits. I also had to think about my girls. I understood transitioning was something he wanted and needed to do. I was okay with him transitioning. I just couldn't stay married to him. If he couldn't be my husband, I couldn't be his wife. When it was almost time for us to talk to lawyers, he decided he would rather stay with me than transition. He said he was done with it. So we patched things up. We purged the girl stuff.

Many things have happened since. At one point I became suspicious and did some digging. I discovered he had posted to and received a few messages from other transsexuals. I didn't confront him about it but checked on him now and then. It seemed it was a "one-time" thing so I let it go. Though, trust became an issue for me. Around this same time, I went out drinking and playing pool with some friends. I had my first girl kiss. Nothing to it. Kinda cool. I also kissed her husband. Nothing to it. Of course, my husband didn't think so. Looking back, I realize it was not a good idea. So trust became an issue for him too.

We hurdled the obstacles and managed to find each other again. Things were going great. December 25, 2004. I'm pregnant. WTF?!?! So he's NOT sterile! I had just gone off birth control to save the $40 a month. Doh! I was not happy about this pregnancy. I was done having babies. We just got my youngest out of day care. We had also just declared bankruptcy. It just couldn't get worse, could it? My first two pregnancies were essentially a breeze. No morning sickness, I had short labor, breast-feeding was wonderful. This one... this one was different. I won't bore you with the gory details. It just wasn't easy. Anyway, we now have a beautiful baby boy. He has two sisters who adore him and a mommy and daddy who are wrapped around all ten of his wee fingers. But if I had known then what I know now, we would not have had a baby.

Now this. Lori has surfaced. Again. That b*tch is back, trying to take my husband from me. She couldn't stay the ->-bleeped-<- away. Yes, I know she has always been there. I know she is a part of my husband. Part of what I fell in love with. But now she wants to take over. SHE was not part of MY plan. It's just not fair. We've worked so hard. We've survived so much. I love him dearly. He's been so good to me, to the girls and now to our son. My mom loves him. Everyone I know loves him. He's a hugger. He has a wonderful sense of humor. He's intelligent and caring. I want him to be happy or at least be at peace. If transitioning is what he needs to do, I would be devastated but I would want him to do it. Sooner rather than later would be best for all, I think.

He's selfless? I don't know. He has managed to have just about everything he wants, at one point or another. The boat is gone. The motorcycle is gone. But there will be others. He does give his heart though. He gives his time and his energy. That means a lot. Is he selfish to think of himself and do what he wants and needs to do? Sure. But I also think it is selfish to suppress his inner self to keep everything status quo. To keep me. To keep his son and his job.

I understand his fears about transitioning. But he is such a determined person. I believe he can do it. The money isn't there, but he always finds a way. He has sooooo many friends. I don't think it would hurt him to lose a few, honestly. I don't think he'll have a problem finding work. He could be his own boss. He's done it before. His mom is great. I don't think she would bat an eye if he were to transition. Will he blend in? Will he be accepted as a woman? I think so. I mean, there are natal women out there who don't "pass" as women. We come in all shapes and sizes. Yes, he'll lose me but I wouldn't keep his son from him. We would work that out.

I want to be happy too. I want my kids to be happy. Am I blackmailing him by telling him I'll leave if he transitions? I don't think so. I certainly don't mean to. Though if he doesn't transition, he needs to be able to live within my boundaries if we are to stay together. My conditions are: No hormones-period. I'm still on the fence about electrolysis. No surgeries. He can shave and he can dress up. To many that's not much. It may not be enough for him. You might think I'm inflexible. But see, we've been down this road before. I know how far I can go before I have to take an exit ramp. He understands that I need a man. A male. A husband. A functioning penis. He understands that I care what society thinks. I need to be accepted. I need my kids to be accepted. My ex would certainly not understand any of this. He's just not too bright. He would try his best to take the girls from me. I know some wives have stayed with their transitioning husbands and made it work. And I know kids can understand and accept what is happening. I don't want that for me or for my kids. I don't want things to "work." I don't want people to understand and accept. I want things to be "normal."

So, here we are. If he transitions, I'll leave. If he doesn't transition, there is still a possibility we would split up even if he stays within my boundaries. Lately, I dread the future... "Will today be the day he decides he can't take it anymore and must transition?" Will this weigh so heavily on me that I can't stand it anymore? It's possible. I don't want to be in this situation ten years from now.

*Sigh* That's all for now, I guess. It's late and my brain is drained.

Thanks for the wonderful reply spouse.  It really sheds some light on the situation.  I am currently in transition and have a wife and kids as well.  When I first started discussing transition, I was in a very similar situation, but I came to the conclusion that transitioning was so important that I was willing to risk everything in my life.  I really hoped it wouldn't come to that, but I was willing to go that route.

So far we are still together, but we have an understanding that we will stay to gether for now, but there is no certain commitment for the future.  I she feels she wants to leave me, we will discuss it then, but I will continue to play the partner role until that time.  I never was very good at "being male" and so my changes were welcomed by both my wife and kids.

For instance, tonight I took my kids out to a movie and dinner while dressed as female.  They call me Melissa all the time (even when presenting as male), so names aren't a problem.  My son commented that this one one of the best times of his life because he was actually doing something with me.  Before all this, I tended to distance myself from everyone, but now I'm working to build relationships with everyone.  They all see me as female, even when I'm dressed as male and now that I'm able to start being my true self, I can start having a real connection with them.

One of the reasons that my wife is still with me is because she looked at the qualities that attracted her to me and is was really my female qualities that she was attracted to.  She realizes that if she seeks a man, she will most likely not find these qualities.  She was reminded of this when talking to a male friend of hers.  She also realizes that being transsexual is not a choice I made.  My brain just ended up in the wrong body. :( 

I'm very uncertain of the future myself and I have no idea who I will be attracted to a couple years down the road.  I may end up a hermit, I may find that I'm attracted to men, or may end up continuing to like women.  I really don't know.  All I do know is that me and my wife have always been very open minded people and we will deal with issues as they come up.

Melissa

Thank you Lori and Lori's spouse -
Having been in Lori's shoes, I know that all of this is gut-wrenching to all involved.  With detailed input from "spouse," I agree with Mellissa that we have a far better understanding of the situation.  Because you have both put your thoughts and emotions down so clearly, I wonder if you shouldn't just print up the whole post to take to the couple therapist or the psychologist?

Spouse (Could we have your first name, please?  "Spouse" seems so formal), you brought up, "SHE was not part of MY plan. It's just not fair. We've worked so hard. We've survived so much. I love him dearly."  Unfortunately, like with a lot of medical conditons, fairness - as I'm sure you know - has little to do with it.  My ex and I loved one another (we still do).  We defended one another (we still do).  She knew enough from our living together for 21 years that the last thing I would want to do is to hurt her, or she, me.  And yet, transsexualism is a potentially dangerous medical condition that can hurt all.  No matter which choice (staying as you are, crossdressing, or fully transitioning), all have possible dangers and hurt.  I would rather have had cancer than transsexualism -- far less social stigma and it has the possibilty of remission.  Other TS's consider having the experience of both genders to be an incredible gift for learning that most people never experience.  I'd gladly take the magic pill to make me, as you say, "normal."  But no such pill was available and so I faced a lifetime of angst in a non-conforming body or the POSSIBILITY of becoming as close as I could get to "normal."  Or death.

Spouse, you said, " I know she has always been there. I know she is a part of my husband. Part of what I fell in love with."  Melissa echoed this when she said, "One of the reasons that my wife is still with me is because she looked at the qualities that attracted her to me and is was really my female qualities that she was attracted to.  She realizes that if she seeks a man, she will most likely not find these qualities.  She was reminded of this when talking to a male friend of hers."  My ex, similarly, said to me that I am very kind and caring in the way many women are -- she found the opposite in many of the men she dated after we split up.  Spouse, because your previous husband didn't exhibit these kind and intelligent qualities, and you SEE that Lori has them, I would not rush to throw Lori away.

A wise Los Angeles Times writer, Jack Smith, once wrote that he saw the meaning of life as "seeing what happens next."  Melissa and her spouse are doing just that, taking one day at a time.  Her kids are closer to Melissa than the previous version of Melissa.  What "baby steps" can Lori do that won't freak you out?  The couple therapy and psychologist is something you can and are doing.  If you're indeed slightly open to the possibility of Lori doing electrolysis, that could occupy her time at no great danger to your present lifestyle.  When I was undergoing those painful once or twice a week procedures, I joked, "Forget the psychologists -- The real test of whether someone is truly a transsexual should be if they are able to withstand the pain of years of electrolysis torture."  It's not optional.  All transsexuals HAVE to do it if they have any hope of "passing" on a daily basis.  Perhaps electrolysis will convince Lori that it's just not worth the time, expense and pain. 

As both of you are, at this point, uncertain -- neither of you wants to lose each other (and Lori is uncertain if she might be making a big mistake by transitioning) -- perhaps the best thing is for Lori to not do hormones for now (but that, of course, is just my subjective opinion given the limited knowledge you've shared).  There will be plenty of time later for that.  Lori, if you're concerned with hair loss, you might consider propecia and minoxidil.  None of these are feminizing but can help save what you have.  If costs of all of the above frighten you, consider that other costs (SRS, facial surgery) are super-expensive by comparison.  If you can't handle the costs of electrolysis, propecia and minoxidil, I'm not sure why you would consider full transition.  Of course, some TS's do not do SRS because of costs and, with that, the penis would still be there (Spouse's concern).  Some men (even non-TS's) take anti-androgens to hang onto hair but it can lessen the size and firmness of the penis.  Every action in transition can have side-effects.

Melissa stated, "So far we are still together, but we have an understanding that we will stay to gether for now, but there is no certain commitment for the future.  I she feels she wants to leave me, we will discuss it then, but I will continue to play the partner role until that time...All I do know is that me and my wife have always been very open minded people and we will deal with issues as they come up."

This gets back to what I said about taking one day at a time.  There is no way of foretelling with EXACT CERTAINTY whether you will find this or that to be the breaking point of your marriage.  Spouse, I mentioned in a previous post how I forced the love of my life to leave because every other day was so filled with angst at the beginning of my transition.  I wanted the angst to end -- for both of our sakes.  Since then, we have remained good loving friends, and I've lamented to myself, from time to time, whether I was premature in asking her to leave my house.  Why couldn't I have just let it be and see if it might have worked out?  She's now happily married and I'm happy for her.  Due to my decision, I'm lonely and don't know if I'll ever find as good a love as her.  Don't make my same mistake.  Please consider doing as Melissa and her love are doing, taking every day at a time, EXPERIENCING IT, let it sink in (giving time for how you really react, rather than how you THINK you'll react) and then making your decision.

I'm soon going to be taking a risk by selling my home and leaving L.A.   There are negatives:  There are no film editing jobs where I'm going so I'm leaving the possibility of working at my craft (of 30 years) which I have adored.  I could move and hate the weather in Washington state.  House prices could rise while I'm gone making it difficult, if not impossible, for me to move back.  A huge 9.0 earthquake (bigger than L.A.'s) could happen in the northwest, leaving me in rubble like the people in Mississippi (while insurance companies give pennies on the dollar).  But I know that TS's, before me, have found peace in moving away from others who know our (male) history  -- that history can, of course, be a source of embarrassment and shame, some of which you, as Lori's spouse, may feel.  Spouse, you stated, "He understands that I care what society thinks. I need to be accepted."  We all seek that.  And maybe you'll reach a point where, like me, moving can solve that problem -- No one will see anything but two women, probably sisters, living with two kids.  Nothing strange in that.  And this devil you fear in Lori will have disappeared, replaced by the image of a very appreciative woman who adores you.  Can that be so bad?

Or maybe Lori will, in the transition phase, disappear and your "husband" will return -- that will make you happy, too.  Neither ending seems so terrible that it isn't worth waiting for.  A lifetime of love?  Sounds pretty good to me.

Anyway, moving is the next step in my transition and yet, I'm afraid of the risks.  Believe it or not, I'm not normally a risk taker.  It might seem strange to hear a TS say that, but it's the truth.  I'm generally a rule follower.  Like you, I care what society thinks.  But logic is important also -- it reigns in my fears and pushes me forwards on this new direction.  And so I'll see "what happens next" in my voyage to a hopefully better and more peaceful life.  As I said in an earlier post, it's the best answer for me, so far...

'Till the next day.

Best of luck to you two - you both seem like caring lovely people and I've enjoyed meeting you.

Hugs,
Teri Anne

Hi Lori's spouse:

I am so glad that you have posted, there is always 2 sides to the story isn't there?

I can understand how you feel, "the bitch is back".  Yes that is how we feel about the "other person" isn't it?  This person has invaded our lives and has completely taken over our spouse that we love and care about so much and our family as well.  The person that we have protected from his/herself through all of this. (wrongly or rightly).  You worked hard at getting through this and you thought you were both on the same page working toward the same goals.  Then when you find out the goals you thought both of you had are not the same - it's heartbreaking.  We fight like hell to not give in, for me, giving in was like giving up.  It is hard getting over/through that barrier.

We talk about setting our barriers that we can work with and that is great, but if our spouse is unable to work within those barriers then they should not be afraid to tell us.  But you know it is that telling that is so scary for them, the uncertainty.  For them, is the admitting they cannot live with the barriers a feeling of failing, I am not sure but perhaps that has something to do with it.  Nevertheless it comes down to finding out who you both are and what you are both able to live with. 

Are the ts selfish, from an SO's point of view - damn right they are.  Now this is my opinion.  I worked hard at protecting this person from themself, trying to not let them hurt themselves or others.  Yet through all of that, I felt this person didn't want my protection and was willing to sacrifice everything, family, friends, work, ME, our daughter, all in the pursuit of "happiness" of becoming a women.   Is that sounding familiar?  This is so hard to get through, as I have said before dealing with a death is actually much easier.

Separating does not mean you do not support the person, all it means is you just cannot live with the person.  You are not saying this person is a bad person, you know this person and all their good qualities.  But don't say if you transition you will leave or don't allow her to say to keep you I will not transition.  That isn't what it's about.  We all deserve and have a right to be happy, you included.  The things you have to look at are, as things stand right now, are you happy?  How do you see this in 10 years, knowing this will not go away.  You take it from there.  We all have to do what is right for ourselves and our familys, don't let the "noise" distract you for doing what you feel is the right thing for you and your family.

I will leave you with these thoughts.  I am so glad you are so honest and were willing to share your most internal thoughts with us. :icon_bunch:  Putting it all into words for others to read is so difficult, once we start we just can't stop.  Keep talking, I for one will look forward to hearing more from you.

Take card



Gill

Hello Lori, and spouse:

I am inviting you to read my introduction in that set of messages titled "An Introduction" on February 11th. Lori, I am a transsexual; confirmed by a pioneer therapist in the field. I remain internally identified as Karen, a girl, a woman.

Yet, as you read my introduction, you will see that after living as a woman for several years, I am again "dad'. Your child should not, in my opinion and in the opinion of my eldest daughter whose degree is in Psychology, be asked to accommodate the withdrawal of his father as a personal and social bulwark of his life. Think about your unborn grandchildren.

"Father" cannot be replaced by a second "mother" or an "aunt". Women, biological women, with whom we want to make common cause, almost always choose their children's welfare over their own. Even though I cannot dress as a woman, do makeup which I find to be fun nor sport a nice "rack", I am being the most womanly I know how to be by fulfilling the role I took upon myself when I participated in my children's conception.

Perhaps my point-of-view resonates with you. I hope so. If not, I hope you find a way to choose to be happy.

Hugs,

Karen

Hi Gracie.  Yes we are very similar.  I thought it was interesting that you had low libido, as did I before starting hormones.  I considered it a blessing and hoped it meant that the testosterone in my body was at lower levels and not doing as much damage.  Actually, I've not noticed much change at all since starting HRT, as I wasn't getting erections beforehand.  Lately, I've noticed my chest wall hurting, like a sore muscle, which I assume is the muscle shrinking.

I am glad you are able to stay with your wife.  Mine has been super as well.  She buys me clothes all the time and buys makeup.  She has been very helpful.  Gracie, if your wife says she will stay with you, take it as a blessing and like the saying goes "don't look a gift-horse in the mouth."  In other words, don't try to examine why, just be glad she is staying.

I have a friend (male) who I've had since high school who is being very accepting and I am having the same problem as you where it just seems too good to be true.  So I do understand where you are coming from.  I just have to trust that he is as supportive as he says.

And by the way, I think you wrote a really interesting post and definitely contributed to this thread.

Melissa

Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 07:30:22 PM


I've been on t-blockers for 20 something months.  I've had facial hair removal, I've been seeing a gender psychologist since the summer of 05, and have an appointment with an endo in April because I'll be getting my letter for HRT next week.

HUH?

You have been on an androgen suppressant for 20 something months but don't have a letter for HRT yet?  There are no over the counter drugs that work so the option seem to be self medicating.  If you are and have read the site rules you do know that we discourage self medication in anyway!

8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:


A. Advocating for or against a specific medication or combinations of medications for personal gain is strictly prohibited.
B. Discussing the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription, and self medication without a doctors care is prohibited.
C. Discussing dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.

We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.

Hi Gracie,
You wrote, "Teri Anne.  Thank you!  I'm going to stop pushing my wife away from me now and let her walk if she wants to."

Thank YOU!  You made my day.  I'm glad I could help.  It's strange.  When I got my ex to move out (after 21 years together), silly me -- I thought I was doing HER a favor.  She would no longer be around someone who might become an outcast, lose a job, lose friends, become a topic for humor around the old water cooler.  None of those dire things happened (though I did lose some work).  In my mind, I was PROTECTING her by asking her to leave.  If I'd let her stay, my life would be a lot happier now.  But she's happily married and she's not coming back.  Every once in awhile, I'll see architecture or dogs that I know she'd like, but she's 3000 miles away.  We talk daily on the phone but it's not the same.  One of the best things about marriage is seeing and sharing something with the one you love.

And seeing it without them seems empty by contrast.  I'm happy for you -- and your wife.

Teri Anne

Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 07:30:22 PM
Hi,

It's taken me two days to read this thread because I wanted to read every last thing that came from Lori.  Never did I imagine that others would give input so awesome I'm still awestruck.

To me this is one of the best threads I've read in like sheeesh 7 years?

:) *blush*

Thank you.

Teri Anne,

I'm new to this forum and just started reading this thread. I am in a similar situation to what is being discussed. I appreciate so much your thoughtful insights into this problem. You make much sense. Even though I am butting end at the end here, this has also helped me.

Thanks,

Steph

Thank you Gracie and Steph for the kind words.  I sometimes think about the saying, "It could be that the only purpose of my being is to serve as a warning to others."  Through me (and many others here at Susan's) beginning TS's can hear how we navigated the dangerous waters of transition.  At times, it's like the ancient Greek tale of a ship caught between the rocky shores of Skilla and Carribdis - the story is taught in English classes as a metaphor for a person caught between two dangerous choices.  Whether we TS's stay in our birth skins or choose to metamorphize can seem like a choice between two dangers.  When I transitioned, I often thought of the butterfly emerging from its cocoon...

And flying.

Teri Anne

Hi everyone, I,m new here, many of Lori's questions are pretty relative to my situation, except I'm 35, single, no kids, never been married. In escence it should be easier for me to transition, but not really. However i believe that the positives will out weigh the negatives. I' so frustrated with my present status and desperate to transition. I have'nt told any family or friends that I'm Ts and would like to transition.
Its almost as if i need someone who has been through this to give me a push along and to tell me to stop being a coward and to get on with it. I've always known that i wanted to be a woman, have always thought about what it would be like to transition, but 6 months ago i really started to take it seriously. I need and want this, but I'm scared.

Davina

Davina,

Welcome to Susan's.

Many of us are or were in the same spot you are.  Transition is a very scary thing, I agree.  It would be really nice if you could write a post in the INTRODUCTIONS forum so we can get to know you better.

helen

Quote from: Davina on April 03, 2006, 04:07:06 PM
Hi everyone, I,m new...

...I've always known that i wanted to be a woman...

Davina

Hello Davina.

Why not head over to the Introductions in the Announcements forum and post an intro telling us a little about yourself. :)

Just another point... Wanting to be a woman and being a woman are two completely different things.  If you are a woman then you will transition.

Steph

Have you had any fears relating to transition?  What have yours been?

Chrissy