Susan's Place Transgender Resources

The next stage of development for me I think will have to be my voice. I should hopefully soon be moving to a place of quiet and with no possibility of evesdropping so the time is soon going to be right to make a start.

Part of my job is dealing with general technical enquires over the telephone. I am wondering, for those who have tried voice training, how many of you have ended up with a passable telephone voice? I do worry if I have a male voice and then I tell them my name is Sarah. I would prefer to avoid awkwardness wherever possible, particularly as I deal with plenty of alpha male tradesmen types on the phone.

Do you often get clocked? Sense awkwardness or confusion when you are on the phone or do people just gender you correctly? I'm trying to gauge what a realistic goal would be for me.

Any tips or tricks would be helpful too. I am still to try Lori's straw in a glass of water technique!

I continued to go by my male name.  After voice training to properly modulate my voice I'd often get misgendered, getting ma'am at the end of the conversation when they thought I was a guy at the beginning of the call.

I'm Charlotte at work yet have a totally male voice. I get total confusion when they ask to speak to Charlotte and I say "speaking". But that's usually the end of it they just carry on normally. Other calls its been assumed I'm acting on behalf of someone else. Its slightly awkward rather than completely uncomfortable. I just tell people I'm trans if need be.

Oh and most of the people I talk to are electrical contractors, electricians and main contractors. They are fine with it all. Honestly trades people were all fine with me being trans when I spent weeks with them on site!

I'd love to get my voice right but ENT issues with my sinus', constantly dry throat and damage from years of passive smoking make this tough. I lose my normal voice often and get very hoarse. Probably need a professional that understands the vocal training and medical side to asses what's needed.

Quote from: Charlotte Kitty on Today at 04:50:54 AMI'm Charlotte at work yet have a totally male voice. I get total confusion when they ask to speak to Charlotte and I say "speaking". But that's usually the end of it they just carry on normally. Other calls its been assumed I'm acting on behalf of someone else. Its slightly awkward rather than completely uncomfortable. I just tell people I'm trans if need be.

Oh and most of the people I talk to are electrical contractors, electricians and main contractors. They are fine with it all. Honestly trades people were all fine with me being trans when I spent weeks with them on site!

I'd love to get my voice right but ENT issues with my sinus', constantly dry throat and damage from years of passive smoking make this tough. I lose my normal voice often and get very hoarse. Probably need a professional that understands the vocal training and medical side to asses what's needed.

Yes, you might find it "slightly awkward" but as you know, I consider you to be fearless!!

I would prefer to avoid the awkwardness altogether if it is at all feasibly possible, clearly some people can do it, I just wonder how common it is to reach that high standard.

It could be I'm falling into the same comparison trap of watching 100% convincing youtubers and it might not be a realistic goal.

I just had a try again as still do exercises each day and oddly my pitch has increased without too much issue. I think I'm pushing with forward resonance OK as vibrations are around my nose and not my chest. The main issue I have is the weight of my voice. Its often too heavy as it breaks if I reduce the weight too much. Both forward resonance and weight control make the feminine voice.

I think its helped as I'm trying to rap with forward resonance. So literally I'm in the car trying to rap in a femme voice. The weight problem is down to throat issues though. Maybe will find a way around it.

I am still self-conscious about my voice, but I don't think others really notice. On the phone I always introduce myself, that provides a 'starting point' for their decision-making process. I think my voice is at least in the androgenous range, so by introducing myself it tips the scales in my favor.

While my brain still seems to 'hear' my old voice, I think the voice others hear is much nicer. My electrologist had never heard my old voice, so I offered to let her hear it. She was shocked and told me to never do that again!

Voice training takes time and dedication, but it is certainly possible for most of us to train our voices to better reflect our presentation. Some people do feel the need for voice surgery, and that is an option if training doesn't provide enough improvement.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

I had enough voice lessons to know that I would never have a feminine voice.  I have raised my default pitch a little: half an octave, when a full octave was what I would have needed.  And I modulate my voice better for a more feminine inflection.  It is enough to not be jarring in person, where my visual presentation gives people enough clues as to the impression I am going for.

But on the phone, it's a lost cause.  You can't do anything about the natural resonances of your sinus cavities, and that's what people hear on the phone.  I get "sir"-ed a lot, especially by telemarketers whose script requires them to insert an honorific in every second sentence.  I have had to interrupt them and insist that they call me ma'am.  It doesn't always work.

When a business I have an account with calls, they ask to speak to Kathleen.  I tell them that that is me, and there is always a pause while they recalculate.  Sometimes, they ask incredulously: "You're Kathleen???"  I try to convey as much exasperation as possible when I acknowledge that, yes, I am.

When I am the one placing the call, I do introduce myself properly, and I get fewer problems that way.

See, where I am at a disadvantage is that I have never been musical. I have no idea what an octave actually is at least how I would quantify it anyway. The terms and wording that gets bandied about on the subject is mostly completely meaningless to me.

I do have a light Geordie accent which is known to be quite a melodic accent so I'm hoping that might help me out a bit.

I have fiddled about with the Voicetools app on my phone and I seem to be able to regularly hit the 200Hz-220hz level on the high points without sounding like mickey mouse but a lot tends to be on the boundary of androgenous/female range with occasional sharp drops into the male speach levels. I honestly don't know what I'm doing yet but I'm hopeful this might be a decent base to start from. Time will tell!

Quote from: Stottie Girl on Today at 08:33:10 AMSee, where I am at a disadvantage is that I have never been musical. I have no idea what an octave actually is at least how I would quantify it anyway. The terms and wording that gets bandied about on the subject is mostly completely meaningless to me.

I do have a light Geordie accent which is known to be quite a melodic accent so I'm hoping that might help me out a bit.

I have fiddled about with the Voicetools app on my phone and I seem to be able to regularly hit the 200Hz-220hz level on the high points without sounding like mickey mouse but a lot tends to be on the boundary of androgenous/female range with occasional sharp drops into the male speach levels. I honestly don't know what I'm doing yet but I'm hopeful this might be a decent base to start from. Time will tell!

Getting to 220Hz is really an achievement. I can get about 170Hz at absolute best before my voice breaks up severely. But I'm not mega worried about pitch. Its mainly the other stuff that's more important. Hopefully if the other stuff is right at some point the fact I cant achieve pitch wont matter. Worst case I'll just have to live with my male voice and put up with it!

Quote from: Charlotte Kitty on Today at 08:39:53 AMGetting to 220Hz is really an achievement. I can get about 170Hz at absolute best before my voice breaks up severely. But I'm not mega worried about pitch. Its mainly the other stuff that's more important. Hopefully if the other stuff is right at some point the fact I cant achieve pitch wont matter. Worst case I'll just have to live with my male voice and put up with it!

It's mostly only spiking that high though Charlotte, it's so up and down. I can sustain an "ee" sound around 210Hz for as long as I have breath if that means anything. I haven't begun to look at the other complexities of the voice like resonance and "brightening the voice" and so many other things I do not understand yet.

Quote from: Stottie Girl on Today at 08:33:10 AMSee, where I am at a disadvantage is that I have never been musical. I have no idea what an octave actually is at least how I would quantify it anyway.

...

I have fiddled about with the Voicetools app on my phone and I seem to be able to regularly hit the 200Hz-220hz level on the high points

An octave is a doubling (or halving) of the frequency.  If you use the app to measure 100 Hz and then 200 Hz, that is one octave.  The next octave up would be 400, which you aren't going to hit except maybe in falsetto voice.

Check out the Trans Voice Lessons channel on YouTube. She explains what the various terms mean, describes how they are formed in human voice, and gives some exercises to try.

https://www.youtube.com/transvoicelessons

Quote from: KathyLauren on Today at 10:14:18 AMAn octave is a doubling (or halving) of the frequency.  If you use the app to measure 100 Hz and then 200 Hz, that is one octave.  The next octave up would be 400, which you aren't going to hit except maybe in falsetto voice.

Thanks Kathy, interesting. Okay so, looking at the voice tools app it measures my lowest hz as around 130/140 and my highest 240/250 both are at the more extreme ends. This means my entire range is roughly 1 octave. You are saying that I need to be a full octave higher but from what point and presumably that is just the peaks otherwise you would have a very high but monotonous voice?

Quote from: Lori Dee on Today at 10:27:00 AMCheck out the Trans Voice Lessons channel on YouTube. She explains what the various terms mean, describes how they are formed in human voice, and gives some exercises to try.

https://www.youtube.com/transvoicelessons

Yeah I've seen a couple of her videos but I'm struggling to understand her basic concepts.

You've done quite a bit of work on this Lori, is your voice passable on the telephone or do you think it is an unrealistic goal?

Quote from: Stottie Girl on Today at 10:29:13 AMYeah I've seen a couple of her videos but I'm struggling to understand her basic concepts.

You've done quite a bit of work on this Lori, is your voice passable on the telephone or do you think it is an unrealistic goal?

My Voice Therapy sessions through the VA got cancelled, thanks to a certain someone in the White House.

No, I am nowhere near "passable" in my own mind. But, just like passing in appearance, it is never going to be perfect. I am often misgendered on the phone by strangers. As others have said, introducing myself as Lori helps. I have had a few people that needed to be told, "I am not a sir." They were not being mean, just relying on a habit.

Generally, out in public, my voice passess because my appearance is more aligned, so their impression is pushed more to perceive me as feminine. I think I have posted before that the pitch is not the critical factor. Do an online search and you will find many female celebrities with deep voices and some sound quite sexy, think Lauren Bacall.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9yZ1a65xfps

So I stopped trying to train my voice and just be me. My voice was never very deep to begin with, but was far from feminine. That is where forward resonance comes in. Like passing in appearance, you need to find what works for you. If you set the bar too high, you will struggle and frustration will encourage you to give up. Strive for what you can realistically achieve, then go from there.

Quote from: Stottie Girl on Today at 10:27:09 AMThanks Kathy, interesting. Okay so, looking at the voice tools app it measures my lowest hz as around 130/140 and my highest 240/250 both are at the more extreme ends. This means my entire range is roughly 1 octave. You are saying that I need to be a full octave higher but from what point and presumably that is just the peaks otherwise you would have a very high but monotonous voice?

It was a long time ago that I had my voice therapy sessions, so I don't remember the specific target range.  I seem to recall that my male voice was centered somewhere in the 100s and my target range was about double that (i.e. 1 octave up) in the 200s.  What the numbers actually were, I don't recall.

One's voice is a range, since you don't talk in a monotone.  Speech therapists work with the full range.  According to Google, typical female speech range is 165 Hz to 255 Hz.  I don't recall the actual numbers, just that the therapist wanted me to try to double the frequency.  I do remember that I was able to get an increase of 0.5 octave and that I could hit the lower end of the female range.  That suggests that my starting mid-range pitch was around 110 Hz.

Like Lori, I get misgendered over the phone, but not in person. My voice aligns well enough with my appearance. On the phone I mke sure that they know my name is Ellen, and if necessary, I gently remind them of my gender.

However, my voice is one aspect of myself that I will not change. It is part of my identity. Due to a speech impediment, I spent 10 years in speech when I was growing up. It has left me with a unique accent which is a great ice breaker when meeting new people. No one ever believes I was born and raised in Southern California.

Ellen

Hmmmm. So it sounds like passing on the phone could be an almost unattainable goal or at least something only for the minority of girls. That is a bit dissapointing. I was kind of hoping there would be more positive results.

I do know a trans girl at work who has a flawless voice, I have only spoken to her on the phone and had to be told she was trans, I had absolutely no idea, so it is possible at least. I will give it a go and see where I end up but maybe with a more realistic expectation.

Appreciate everyones input so far.

I have intermittently tries working on my voice. I grew up with a father that lost most of his hearing in the military.  I developed a deeper resonate voice. When I try to work on my voice I avoid speaking from my chest and not forcing my voice out

I think its still possible for you to achieve. My impression is that anyone's mileage with anything transition wise is 25% effort and 75% luck/genetics!