Susan's Place Transgender Resources

While writing today I remembered something from my past and I am curious if any of you experienced the same since we seem to have so many other similarities.

Through high school and maybe a bit after, women/young women would always tell me they could read me like a book and always said that I was a simple guy to understand (if they only knew). While women seemed to read me like a book, they could not nail down the other guys. I find this odd considering how we seem to be so muted in our emotions compared to other people.

Did any of you experience similar?

I'll have to think about it.  I don't really think anyone ever understood me.

hmm...I have a pretty good mask, but there are some people who can read me.  I am pretty simple minded though.  And when I speak I am very direct and blunt.  You're definitely right about all of us having similar personality traits.  I think that simple mindedness falls well into the "childlike" category that a lot of us identify with.

The big question I have now is, "are these traits hard wired along with our gender identity or do we develop them because of social interractions and reactions that come from our gender identity?"

Quote from: Jaimey on February 10, 2008, 12:40:03 AM
hmm...I have a pretty good mask, but there are some people who can read me.  I am pretty simple minded though.  And when I speak I am very direct and blunt.  You're definitely right about all of us having similar personality traits.  I think that simple mindedness falls well into the "childlike" category that a lot of us identify with.

Interesting.

Especially when you consider that I started puberty late. High school would have been the early to mid stages of it for me while others around me were well on their way.

Quote from: sd on February 09, 2008, 05:54:28 PM
While writing today I remembered something from my past and I am curious if any of you experienced the same since we seem to have so many other similarities.

Through high school and maybe a bit after, women/young women would always tell me they could read me like a book and always said that I was a simple guy to understand (if they only knew). While women seemed to read me like a book, they could not nail down the other guys. I find this odd considering how we seem to be so muted in our emotions compared to other people.

Did any of you experience similar?

I've always related better to women, and am often told things that they wouldn't tell a guy. They've always said I wasn't like other men, and treated me like a sister. It's experiences like this, among other things, that led me to think that I was TS.

y2g

I, too, have related better with females, though most people find me weird--either weird and lovable or weird and contemptible. I am simple, almost simple enough for me to understand myself. As for the mask, I found I could lie pretty well. The most successful way to lie is to tell the truth in such a way that no one believes you.

Puberty? I started shaving at 14, a little. I got married at age 22, when I learned to kiss and have sex. That marriage ended after 24 years, amicably, though. I remarried 4 months later, almost 20 years ago, but I've told that story elsewhere.

Simone

Quote from: y2gender on February 10, 2008, 09:11:54 AM
I've always related better to women, and am often told things that they wouldn't tell a guy. They've always said I wasn't like other men, and treated me like a sister.
y2g

Switch the women with men and vice versa and that's me!  I have been told things by guys that I never really needed (or wanted) to know and I've never had a problem being one of the guys.  Put me with a group of girls and I'm ridiculously awkward. 

Quote from: sd on February 10, 2008, 04:00:55 AM
Interesting.

Especially when you consider that I started puberty late. High school would have been the early to mid stages of it for me while others around me were well on their way.

Really?  I think I've grown a whole inch since 6th grade.  Actually, that is one factor that I think could be an emotional reaction that has caused me to remain childlike.  When you're practically grown by the time you're 12, people push you to act grown up too and I think I missed out a bit on being a kid.  But then again, I think a lot of the childlike characteristics are hardwired because so many of us have them.  It's pretty fascinating (at least to me!).  :D

I had an average physical puberty, but mental and emotional didn't happen until I was in my 20's.  I think it's passed now.   :laugh:

Quote from: Rebis on February 12, 2008, 10:02:26 AM

I had an average physical puberty, but mental and emotional didn't happen until I was in my 20's.  I think it's passed now.   :laugh:

Me too...

Everyone always used to say they could read me like a book. Course, at that time I was actually completely hiding everything and they were totally wrong. It wasn't gender/sexuality related, I was just really really depressed (almost did something really stupid too). So what they thought they were reading was just my mask. At the time I took it as a compliment to my abilities to hide my true emotions.

Anymore I don't tend to hide things too much. And now they don't tell me I'm easy to read, they just tell me their life story instead.

Quote from: Kir on February 15, 2008, 04:23:40 PM
So what they thought they were reading was just my mask. At the time I took it as a compliment to my abilities to hide my true emotions.

Wow.  I was just like that.

anyone who knows me knows it is a bit more complicated.

Maybe it's because my lack of gender identity, my high IQ, or both:

But people misread every single thing that I do.  They always ask me why I'm depressed.  The only time they don't ask me why I'm depressed, is when I'm actually depressed.  People take my jokes seriously.  And when I'm being serious, they think I'm joking.  I can reveal enlightened truths to the universe and people grunt, yet I make an observation that they put too much butter on their toast and they think I'm Buddha.

If people can read me like a book, and they claim to, I should probably start informing them that I am written in a different language.

I can reveal enlightened truths to the universe ... dealing perhaps with your legendary sense of modesty?

Yep, people can read me like a book, that's why I'm crap at poker.  ;D

I've always thought it was a good thing.  Speak plain and from the heart, make sure that people know you mean what you say, and say what you mean.

Tekla, I can counter with just one simple line...

"Honey, does this make my butt look big?"

It's called 'women's intuition'. Females know things other genders don't. This is why a female can see right through an ftm. Women KNOW when you're not one of them. They may not be able to put their finger on it, but they sense it, that I'm an outsider, a wolf in sheep's clothing and boy did they ever make me pay for it.

My guess would be that they sense when a supposed 'male' belongs to their group. (think perhaps androgynees belong to both groups)
They sense you're a lamb in wolves' clothing.

Quote from: tekla on February 18, 2008, 11:44:22 PM
I can reveal enlightened truths to the universe ... dealing perhaps with your legendary sense of modesty?

careful there you.  We androgynes are connected directly to the heart of God.

Would not the heart of god tell you that you should be plain and humble, and that you are a part of the universe, no better or worse than any other part?

And I go shopping with girls (not my GF) and tell them the truth, as they are quick to tell me also.  It don't even take words, just a glance.

Of course, we can't agree on which God that is.

  Nfr

Quote from: VeryGnawty on February 18, 2008, 11:30:03 PM
If people can read me like a book, and they claim to, I should probably start informing them that I am written in a different language.

I like that.

Well of course - I mean Jesus H. Christ on a Motherf***ing crutch, my god.  Yeesh, is not the basic premise, the raison d'etre of all (or almost all) religions that "OUR GOD IS RED HOT, YOUR GOD AIN"T DOODLEY SQUAT!

There is a Charlie Danial's Band song called "My God is an Awesome God."  Like what, there are un-awesome gods?  Is not 'awesome' a huge part of the whole god deal in the first place?  Is there a mediocre god? (& where can I find that one, seem like a perfect god for me.)

I aways tell people "Gee, I would love to meet your god, where is it?"  And they say "He is invisible, but speaks to me in my heart."  And no offense, but that begins to sound like David Berkowitz, Son of Sam, and the dog (which is god spelled backwards) next door.

And tekla slowly steps back.

Quote from: tekla on February 19, 2008, 12:31:57 PM
Well of course - I mean Jesus H. Christ on a Motherf***ing crutch, my god.  Yeesh, is not the basic premise, the raison d'etre of all (or almost all) religions that "OUR GOD IS RED HOT, YOUR GOD AIN"T DOODLEY SQUAT!

There is a Charlie Danial's Band song called "My God is an Awesome God."  Like what, there are un-awesome gods?  Is not 'awesome' a huge part of the whole god deal in the first place?  Is there a mediocre god? (& where can I find that one, seem like a perfect god for me.)

I aways tell people "Gee, I would love to meet your god, where is it?"  And they say "He is invisible, but speaks to me in my heart."  And no offense, but that begins to sound like David Berkowitz, Son of Sam, and the dog (which is god spelled backwards) next door.

And tekla slowly steps back.

Go for paganism. There are all sorts of different types of paganism. If you have lots of gods in your belief system, then yeah you can have mediocre gods. Heck, some of them can be rather pathetic even! So if you went for a system that believes in TONS of gods, you could worship the god that is in charge of my sister's kitchen, and then you could be worshiping a god that is more pathetic than... uh... I dunno.

Thank you, that's funny.  Then again, my sister can only make reservations for dinner.

But I like the idea of a mediocre god.  Then Journey can be my favorite rock band, and I can think that Reader's Digest is the hight of Literature.  After all, who whats to read the unabridged version of Robinson Crusoe?  God, you're only half-way through that book and you feel like your on that damn island with him.  How much better to read:  "He was shipwrecked, lived for a while alone, and was rescued."  I'm off that island in no time.

My God is an Underwhelming God. He once turned wine into water, but give him the ingredients and he makes a mean tuna sandwich.

This is completely off-topic... but Pica, I love your picture.

Hiis/her pic is OK, the answer: spot on.

cheers, i was playing Macready in loot

Well time to write a hymn then:

My god is an underwhelming god
Creation he is not
I thought he created the world
in then end, he did not

My God is an underwhelming God
Creation he is not
He may not send forth plagues of rats
But does an ace dry rot.

Our god, who art in a shoebox
ignored be they name
thy boredom come
thy will be unknown
on the floor as it is in your shoebox
Give us this day our daily dust
and forgive those who might try and vacuum you up.
Lead us not into temptation,
or anywhere else for that matter.
For thine is the kingdom of dustbunnies
and the unimpressiveness,
for now, and maybe tomorrow too.
Achoo.

Quote from: Kir on February 19, 2008, 02:27:08 PM
This is completely off-topic... but Pica, I love your picture.

You're worried about going off topic for an off topic discussion?
I think we lost the topic 2 or 3 topics ago.

You will get used to it. Good or bad, nothing stays on topic or serious for long here it seems.

Yeah old habits die hard. I've been banned from sooo many forums because I don't follow rules very well. I topic bounce a lot, I post a LOT (I am rather talkative). And once I got banned for calling a mod stupid (I shoulda called him a poopyhead instead).

Hmmm well, I always appreciate going off topic, I'm not a fan of splitting them either...because a good conversation ebbs and flows in its own ways.

If anyone feels this should not be the case I could 'mod them good and proper', but it doesn't seem our way.

He can not fix a horse race,
not the Olympics is true
my god is a mediocre god
the god for me and you.

(Chorus) You're on your own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My god can not rule the waves
Britannia does that well
My god does not give a >-bleeped-<
for >-bleeped-< it is in hell

Chorus

My god can not make Righteous
that which is evil to begin
if you want to go to hell
than you must cast that sin

Chorus

My god is mediocre
nothing much in which to believe
but you know my god
is way easy to deceive

Chorus - Chorus (refrain). 

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 19, 2008, 03:46:35 PM
Hmmm well, I always appreciate going off topic, I'm not a fan of splitting them either...because a good conversation ebbs and flows in its own ways.

If anyone feels this should not be the case I could 'mod them good and proper', but it doesn't seem our way.

Unless it is a very serious topic, I am firm believer in letting it go where it may.

I believe this topic started seriously, and can become serious again.

I'm not all that sure that the concept of a mediocre god is all that off topic.

its a good idea, has to live somewhere.
My god would have created the world, but chance beat him to it.

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 19, 2008, 03:58:07 PM
I believe this topic started seriously, and can become serious again.

Thanks Pica Pica
It was started as just an interesting question, what I meant by serious in the context I used was someone needing help or something. At which point staying on topic would be preferred.

I was just hoping to get some interesting responses, the main goal was to initiate a discussion around what I asked, if it lead to something else that would be fine as well.  It did head off in a direction I did not expect but only after getting what I was after.

Think it's another touching stone for us?? this being read thing.

Forgive me, but I cannot resist adding my two cents to the talk of God. Mine cares less what I believe than that I act as a partner in the completion of creation. I am not expected to finish the task nor am I free to ignore it. In my prayer book's morning prayers are these words:

"These are the obligations without measure, whose reward, too, is without measure:
to honor father and mother;
to perform acts of love and kindness;
to attend the house of study daily;
to welcome the stranger;
to visit the sick;
to rejoice with bride and groom;
to console the bereaved;
to pray with sincerity;
to make peace where there is strife.
And the study of Torah is equal to them all, because it leads to them all."

I choose to feel chosen to live this way. No one else need feel similarly obligated.

Hope this wasn't too heavy or too off topic,
Simone

I don't think I have had a similar experience to you sd. Very few people can 'read me' in terms of understanding my moods or feelings. I can't think of one at this time, not even my wife. I seem to be good a putting on a face. I feel like my mood should be bleedingly obvious from the depth of feeling but it seems to go unnoticed by those around me - male or female.

I think this partly comes from growing up with a violent manic depressive parent. It was best to go unnoticed, don't rock the boat, be still and you won't set them off. When I was young and performing music in front of a crowd or giving a speach most people comment on how confident and calm I was even though I felt like was was white as a sheet and shaking.

I'm not sure if this is an inability to express what I feel or more that I internalise everything. I think it is probably the later. I have noticed lately though that things are spilling out in a rather uncontrolled way - like yelling or punching a wall in frustration. The old dysphoria is really wearing down my control.

Possibly Pica Pica
It was only a short period where it was so easy for them, but it was also only "surface" emotions. Obviously they really had no idea what was going on in the deeper recesses of my mind, but my outward emotions were easy for them to read. No one else that I knew was that easily read.

I was only curious if it was just and that phase in my life or if more went through a similar period. Unfortunately, I think it also only served to further push me into my shell. In High school it seemed every female could do it.

While extremely rare today, every once in a while someone will come along and be able to do it, always women. Thinking back about the ones later in life, at least one of them may have been an androgyne (almost positive). Odd to think that because I did not spend a lot of time around her, but there was a connection there. Her husband may have been as well, not sure why that occurs to me only now.

This woman definitely knew something was different with me even though at this point in my life was when I most repressed who I was (during my time in the military). I repressed it so much that I started to think maybe I was normal after all. That self image started to fall apart a bit later, and had I stayed in the military someone would have figured it out and then who knows what would have happened. Towards the end of my career they starting to question things about my life. Lack of girlfriends, sex, attitude...

I thought I was fitting in but in the military, you spend so much time together and depend on each other, eventually you get to know everyone quite well. We often knew each other better than our families/wives did. Sometimes apparently better than we know ourselves.

Quote from: Simone Louise on February 19, 2008, 06:11:58 PM
Forgive me, but I cannot resist adding my two cents to the talk of God. Mine cares less what I believe than that I act as a partner in the completion of creation. I am not expected to finish the task nor am I free to ignore it. In my prayer book's morning prayers are these words:

"These are the obligations without measure, whose reward, too, is without measure:
to honor father and mother;
to perform acts of love and kindness;
to attend the house of study daily;
to welcome the stranger;
to visit the sick;
to rejoice with bride and groom;
to console the bereaved;
to pray with sincerity;
to make peace where there is strife.
And the study of Torah is equal to them all, because it leads to them all."

I choose to feel chosen to live this way. No one else need feel similarly obligated.

Hope this wasn't too heavy or too off topic,
Simone

See that's the fascinating thing about religion. Regardless of what the religion is, the prayers are all about the same in meaning. Well, except for our silly ones up above (does anyone really worship the god of dust bunnies?). I actually totally understand people needing a god. And even if there is no gods, there is no harm in praying to them the sort of prayers you say, in fact there is plenty of good in saying them.

I know in the end I don't worship the same god as you. That doesn't mean I don't think your god doesn't exist, sie very well might. I respect your god, and your belief of your god, and I think that's cool. But as I stand outside of standard gender roles, I also stand outside of standard religions.

But my religious beliefs are probably best left for a different thread another time.

i think the discordians said ethics best.

Eris may let you do whatever you want to do, but no one likes an arsehole.

Excuse me, but >-bleeped-<s love >-bleeped-<s, otherwise how did Marylin Manson ever sell record one?

a strong image and a pseudo-intellectualism.

I'm down with that, as I head off to do herself tomorrow.  Oh, but don't look at her?  WTF?

Quote from: tekla on February 19, 2008, 07:17:29 PM
Excuse me, but >-bleeped-<s love >-bleeped-<s, otherwise how did Marylin Manson ever sell record one?

What does that say about Michael Jackson?

Nothing.  Thriller, 25 years later, is still awesome.

Quote from: tekla on February 19, 2008, 07:27:29 PM
Nothing.  Thriller, 25 years later, is still awesome.

So if you like him, he is not an >-bleeped-< (despite what he may or may not have done), but since you dislike Mason, he must be an >-bleeped-<?

Different strokes for different folks.

Quote from: tekla on February 19, 2008, 07:24:24 PM
I'm down with that, as I head off to do herself tomorrow.  Oh, but don't look at her?  WTF?

are you serious?  Only a God can not be looked upon.  Maybe that's whose heart we've been connected to this whole entire time.  No wonder I feel so dirty.

I would have cut my own throat for saying this 25 years ago, but Thriller is a good album.  You still won't catch me listening to it on purpose.

Granted that MH and MM are not exactly people you want you kids to grow up to be.  Still.  I've done ever MM tour since AntiChirst Superstar in the mid 90s, and I've yet to hear that band hit a solid note.  I'm a DeadHead, and as much as it pains me to say, Thriller, is good >-bleeped-<. more because of Quincy Jones than MJ, still......

Quote from: tekla on February 19, 2008, 07:48:28 PM
Granted that MH and MM are not exactly people you want you kids to grow up to be.  Still.  I've done ever MM tour since AntiChirst Superstar in the mid 90s, and I've yet to hear that band hit a solid note.  I'm a DeadHead, and as much as it pains me to say, Thriller, is good >-bleeped-<. more because of Quincy Jones than MJ, still......

Axle Rose cannot hit a solid note either.  ;D

Not anymore at least, and when he was good, it didn't matter.

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 19, 2008, 03:58:07 PM
I believe this topic started seriously, and can become serious again.

Now, what was the topic anyway?? Something about reading books, or G-d, or Michael Jackson? ...... ;)

Z

Quote from: Zythyra on February 19, 2008, 09:55:52 PM
Now, what was the topic anyway?? Something about reading books, or G-d, or Michael Jackson? ...... ;)

The topic is: I am God.  Now worship me.  Heh.

Quote from: NickSister on February 19, 2008, 06:12:57 PM
I seem to be good a putting on a face. I feel like my mood should be bleedingly obvious from the depth of feeling but it seems to go unnoticed by those around me - male or female.

I think this partly comes from growing up with a violent manic depressive parent. It was best to go unnoticed, don't rock the boat, be still and you won't set them off. When I was young and performing music in front of a crowd or giving a speach most people comment on how confident and calm I was even though I felt like was was white as a sheet and shaking.

I'm not sure if this is an inability to express what I feel or more that I internalise everything. I think it is probably the later. I have noticed lately though that things are spilling out in a rather uncontrolled way - like yelling or punching a wall in frustration.

Wow.  I think we have had very similar experiences and grew into very similar people.  It's almost eerie.