Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I would like to hear from post-op girls, and actual specific experiences.  I am pre-op, and am trying to justify some things in my head in order to stay sane between now and surgery.  I know what I SAY I will do, but you never know until you are actually there.

If you are stealth at work and routinely tell dates, do you worry that these people will out you at work?  Do you date guys you met through work, but not necessarily at work?

I am aware that you can potentially live forever without anyone, including your husband knowing, but I don't think I would want to.  I want a guy who isn't homosexual, but knows me inside and out and loves me for who I am.  I just can't imagine the risk you go through every new guy you date, wondering how he will react.  Obviously I wouldn't tell someone on the first date, but maybe after a month or so?

Again, the poll is for post-op girls.  I would like some idea of how many people ACTUALLY do or do not tell.

Thanks!

Amy :icon_chick:

This is always a difficult question and one which is very much down to the individual and their own circumstances.

I have dated many guys since SRS and to date have not told any about my past history, I cant see the point of outing myself for what may not be more than a one night stand.

I have had boyfriends of up to 6 months in duration and still havent told them anything of my past.

However, If things did become serious, I liked someone (I guess to the point of loving them), then yes, I would be honest and open, even at the risk that the relationship may end because of it.

I my general life I have only told two people that I trust and know I can rely on.

Buffy

Quote from: Tink on February 24, 2008, 07:15:23 PM
This is a quote from a long time ago:

Quote from: Tinkerbell on June 25, 2006, 11:58:19 PM
I don't usually discuss my past with people at work (I don't know if they know, and I really don't care if they do)  or people I just meet, but if someone asks me an honest question about my life, I will certainly tell them the truth. 
As far as telling someone in a relationship, well... in my opinion, that's something different, and I think a boyfriend deserves to know everything about the person s/he is romantically involved with.   

Tink :icon_chick:

I have never encountered such situation.  My ex-boyfriend knew because we had met in "my previous life", and he basically helped me out through my transition.  My current boyfriend knows because he's also TS; however, if I were in a different situation with a different guy who didn't know about my past, I would definitely tell him the truth.

tink :icon_chick:

If the shoe was on the other foot, would you want to know?

Quote from: tekla on February 27, 2008, 09:40:23 PM
If the shoe was on the other foot, would you want to know?

Not really.  From a woman's perspective, genitals are not important in the relationship I am now.  If I thought otherwise, I wouldn't be with him, so I don't think it would matter at all if my experience were with a different FTM.


tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: tekla on February 27, 2008, 09:40:23 PM
If the shoe was on the other foot, would you want to know?

If I walk, talk, look, dress, behave, and have the fragrance of a woman, I would tell no one, ever.  As long as I was satisfying the one in my life, I see no reason to "break the spell."

Wing Walker

I feel I need to add this though.  Genitals are not important to me but if the person I am with is a FTM, he must pass as a male 100% (meaning that he needs to be on testosterone, have a male chest + male secondary sexual characteristics as voice, hair, etc....the bottom part is NOT an issue for me.

;D  ;)


tink :icon_chick:

I love people, not genders.  But I do love truth too.  So if its for a night or two - hey I like words like "honey," 'baby," and "dear" so I don't even have to get into that whole 'name deal.'  But for some sort of LTR, I do want to know what kind of background, what kind of baggage, what kind of life they had.  I am sure I could love an FtM, or an MtF and have had some good times with both - but, and its a huge but - I don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone who is telling me stories that begin "when I was a little girl" when they were never a little girl.  The struggle in their life to become who they are is the warp and woof of the fabric of their life, and more than likely, the strength of character that makes them who they are.  Why deny it? 

Quote from: tekla on February 27, 2008, 10:02:22 PM
I don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone who is telling me stories that begin "when I was a little girl" when they were never a little girl.

I don't know about this...

I know that I was never a little girl in the eyes of those around me (a very effeminate little boy, but not a little girl).  But still, to lessen the cognitive dissonance, I'll probably talk about myself as having been a little girl should anyone inquire in the future, even if they know that I'm trans.  And why not?  We live in a binary gender system, and to lay claim to conflicting ones when referring to the past seems... unnecessary.

Lia

Well then, does your SO then have a right to lie to you?  Why not?  That criminal past, the years they spend doing bad things?  Does your not telling the truth, give them that self-same right?

Quote from: genovais on February 27, 2008, 10:35:10 PM

I know that I was never a little girl in the eyes of those around me (a very effeminate little boy, but not a little girl).  But still, to lessen the cognitive dissonance, I'll probably talk about myself as having been a little girl should anyone inquire in the future, even if they know that I'm trans.  And why not?  We live in a binary gender system, and to lay claim to conflicting ones when referring to the past seems... unnecessary.

Lia

I broadly agree with you, it does make sense to refer to ourselves as a little girl (or boy for ftm) since we are female.  Though the fact we were perceived as male and brought up as male does necessarily create conflict in our histories, I think.  For example since I went to beavers, cubs and scouts it is stranger to talk about that as being a girl (though there was another girl in scouts).

Quote from: tekla on February 27, 2008, 10:56:29 PM
Well then, does your SO then have a right to lie to you?  Why not?  That criminal past, the years they spend doing bad things?  Does your not telling the truth, give them that self-same right?

Surely those circumstances are different.  Having a criminal past or not is a matter of fact.  Whereas whether your were a girl or a boy whilst growing up is more subjective - I believe that i was always a girl during my childhood, though most people who knew me then would say I was a boy

Quote from: tekla on February 27, 2008, 10:56:29 PM
Well then, does your SO then have a right to lie to you?  Why not?  That criminal past, the years they spend doing bad things?  Does your not telling the truth, give them that self-same right?

This is just my silly feeling about "lying" to my SO.

If I have a criminal past and I have paid for my crimes, I don't need to be judged more than once, so I wouldn't subject myself to anyone else's judgment.

I would not hesitate to tell an SO that I am a recovering alcoholic because I am.  It would eliminate up-front any questions about having wine with supper.  My sobriety date is September 6, 2002. 

As I am not HIV-positive I have no real idea of how I would tell an SO but I would because it is not fair to expose someone to my HIV, regardless of how I got it (blood transfusion, accident with body fluids or needles used by an HIV-positive patient or other person, bitten by a collared miscreant if I was a cop, I think that you can see where this is going.

Being on probation or parole needs to be told up-front because it's so hard to hide.

If an SO does not deem it proper to set themselves up for "double jeopardy," I can see why.

What crime has one committed by making their body, mind, soul, and spirit congruent with one another?

Wing Walker

I have been lied to! and I think in the start truth need's to be told! if not there is alot of hurt and pain, one will not get over. please always be honest!. pippi

Quote from: Wing Walker on February 27, 2008, 11:14:26 PM
What crime has one committed by making their body, mind, soul, and spirit congruent with one another?

Wing Walker

none!  i agree with you.  hubby knows because he was a long time friend, yet i can assure you that he's the last person to know about my past.  period.

If you don't enter into a relationship with the truth, should your SO?  Or are they the only party to the truth, which to you, is, at best, relative.

Right after my surgery and when I was able, I did want to test the waters.  I wanted to know if I could control a guy with a smile.  I found out that I could and I sent two business men home from their trips with smiles on their faces.  I hope their wives divorced them.  I'm was too cruel and no, I did not tell.

I dated a few men after that and I was not all that interested in sexual encounters.  One guy wanted to marry me.  I did not tell him. I didn't love him.  The guy that I ended up falling for, I told.  It was the hardest thing in the world for me.  I'm glad that he loved me.  We'll have 16 married years together this September.

Cindi

I think telling or not telling is a VERY PERSONAL DECISION and NO ONE is supposed to tell you "this" or "that".  Having said that, I now return you to your regular progamming.

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Tink on March 13, 2008, 08:32:08 PM
I think telling or not telling is a VERY PERSONAL DECISION and NO ONE is supposed to tell you "this" or "that".  Having said that, I now return you to your regular progamming.

tink :icon_chick:

I agree with you, Tink.  While I am always up for a good debate, the reason I started this thread was to find out how girls handled it that were post-op, since I am not and can have no idea how I might react.  I had a hunch though, and the results of this poll agree with my hunch.  Short relationship... nah.  LTR, yeah.  I imagine I will.  I personally can't see being a "life partner" without knowing each other through & through.

I should add that I am very scared about that fateful day when I have fallen for someone and have made the decision to tell them.  Hopefully I will have the strangth to tell them.  Although, that would mean I will have made it to surgery, and that means I am strong enough for anything!

Thanks for all the replies, girls!  Keep 'em coming :)

Amy :icon_chick:

Amy,  by the time you fall in love with someone, hopefully you will know that person  pretty well.  I knew what my hubby felt about gays and the other colorful things that go on in the bay area.  He seemed pretty cool about it all.  Still I would not tell him.  I waited until "I" could hold it in no more.  I also made sure that we had no intimate relations until it was out in the open.  I could not betray him in that way. He understood immediately when I did tell him.... for there were so many messages passed back and forth that needed no words between us.  He understood that the reason we had not had sex until then had been this secret I felt I needed to share first, that I thought the truth might hurt him, and that I would not take advantage of him until I had told him.

Pretty deep huh?  I know it sounds very complicated, but it was over in a few moments and he told me that he loved me more than ever for telling him.  He's home tonight and tomorrow is his birthday!  I'm going to make him a nice breakfast and take him to a nice restaurant for supper!

Cindi

I disclose who I am before I get to know someone that may very well possibly be in a relationship with me later.  I prefer to be open with it since they deserve to know - not because I'm somehow different from a girl, but because I want to trust them with who I am.

QuoteI don't know about this...

I know that I was never a little girl in the eyes of those around me (a very effeminate little boy, but not a little girl).  But still, to lessen the cognitive dissonance, I'll probably talk about myself as having been a little girl should anyone inquire in the future, even if they know that I'm trans.  And why not?  We live in a binary gender system, and to lay claim to conflicting ones when referring to the past seems... unnecessary.

Lia

My very words exactly when I speak of myself at any point in time in the past. I may have looked like an (effeminate) boy, very much so actually. There was not that much change until up to the age of 25. 

For many of those years afterwards spent in a drunken fog has and didn't really relate nor did I have any desire to identify as either sex. Gender wise yes I always knew what I was inside even before I knew what the word transsexual. I only again discovered who I was only ten years ago.

I started full time in the small town I was living in and at my job 8 years ago. Those last 8 years that I lived in that little town as Cindy were probably the best I have ever experienced before in my life.

I met Wing Walker 6 years ago and we became a married couple 4 years ago  and we still live together here in Vancouver. I love her like I have never loved anyone else before. For many years before I didn't have any idea what love was. A traumatic experience had taken from me my identity and ability to feel in earlier years from which I am still recovering from.

It took a few years after meeting Wing Walker before I gained enough trust in her to awaken my ability to love again. I had no problems in caring for anothers as a social worker. I could love others but not intimately. She taught me how to love intimately again. That is my post operative experience since meeting Wing Walker which incidentally I met here on Susan's.

Cindy 

Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 13, 2008, 10:48:26 PM
Amy,  by the time you fall in love with someone, hopefully you will know that person  pretty well.  I knew what my hubby felt about gays and the other colorful things that go on in the bay area.  He seemed pretty cool about it all.  Still I would not tell him.  I waited until "I" could hold it in no more.  I also made sure that we had no intimate relations until it was out in the open.  I could not betray him in that way. He understood immediately when I did tell him.... for there were so many messages passed back and forth that needed no words between us.  He understood that the reason we had not had sex until then had been this secret I felt I needed to share first, that I thought the truth might hurt him, and that I would not take advantage of him until I had told him.

Pretty deep huh?  I know it sounds very complicated, but it was over in a few moments and he told me that he loved me more than ever for telling him.  He's home tonight and tomorrow is his birthday!  I'm going to make him a nice breakfast and take him to a nice restaurant for supper!

Cindi

Yeah, I can understand that.  Did you intentionally feel him out on the "gays and other colorful things" or did all this come out naturally?  I imagine I would be blunt and just ask if it didn't come up.  And I also wonder how long most people go before having sex these days.  Most girls I used to go out with we had sex within a few dates or a couple weeks at the most.  I can't see most (you noticed I said "most") guys waiting even two months for sex.  Maybe they would if they were a good one.

Still get pretty depressed sometimes awaiting surgery.  Tonight was one of them.  I am just so damn lonely lately.  Sorry, just had to rant a little before bed.  I think I need a good cry.

-Amy

I can't even imagine not telling someone who is important in my life such
an important thing about myself, because i think abslute stealth (hiding
my status from everyone) would be either impossible or extremely stressful
and sometimes it isn't the secret itself that was kept that can hurt, but
knowing that there was lack of trust between the two might make a person
wonder what kind of realtionship did we have in the first place...
I am not talking about one night stand type of relationship, but if we are
longer than five days together than he should definetly know.
I simply can't discard any part of my life, weather i like it or not....

Quote from: Mari on April 23, 2008, 11:51:19 AM
I can't even imagine not telling someone who is important in my life such
an important thing about myself, because i think abslute stealth (hiding
my status from everyone) would be either impossible or extremely stressful
and sometimes it isn't the secret itself that was kept that can hurt, but
knowing that there was lack of trust between the two might make a person
wonder what kind of realtionship did we have in the first place...

I agree absolutely Mari ....

For me its not whether to tell but when.  As a recent transitioner (20 months post-SRS) I am not "stealth", not in my job, not among my family (naturally !), my neighbors, my friends.  So to keep my past a secret would require extreme convolutions, and collaboration in the "deceit" by so many people !  It would not just be me lying.

Also I don't feel I'm so physically perfect that suspicions wouldn't be raised eventually, and I've already run into problems with guys when asked questions about my past, like why I'm single etc.

I'm really new to dating as a woman, and though I've picked up so many guys with a look and a smile, its up to now been more about me testing the water as to how well I pass, having a fun night, a nice chat, and often a bit of intimate kissing and cuddling.  We exchange mobile numbers but usually I don't take things further .... but one day soon I will meet someone who really clicks with me and then the dilemma ....

Guess I would tell when I started introducing him to friends and family, maybe a month or two down the relationship road. 

Whether we have sex or not before telling I guess depends on his desire for it !  I don't think its in any way unfair to have sex before "telling", after all I'm doing the guy a favour (even though I like it too  ;) ), and it might even act to bond the relationship and have him accept me as a the woman I am despite the disclosure.

Laura x

I received a marriage proposal a couple days after the SC in cali declared it legal. I said yes bu there are some legal matters I need to attend to (everything female except my birth cetificate.)

With women, it doesn't really matter if they find out (safety-wise anyway) After being together a couple months, I finally told her and she was totally cool with it. The amazing thing to me is that once someone is intimate with me, they find it incomprehemsible that I am anything but a GG. I guess I can thank Suporn for that! (As well as Dr O)

Last night, I asked if she wanted to go to the trans march and she said well you aren't trans but we could go as supporters! :) We didn't go cuz it was too cold!

That time that we were together that I was completely stealth with an experienced butch woman was probably the most exhilarating time of my life. Even now though, she (and most of the world) just perceives me as a woman.

Our offficial position position with the public is that I am a GG. She tells me I am "more" feamle than nayone she has ever known.

If someone told me this was possible five years ago, I would have said they were crazy. But anything in life is possible if you want it bad enough!

Hello Lipstick Lez,

Welcome to Susan's. Please make yourself of The Site Rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) to learn the boundaries of the Forum. On [urlhttps://www.susans.org/index.html]The Main Page[/url] you can find links to Chat, Links and Wiki and other features you may find useful.

I hope you enjoy your stay here and will be looking forward to the experience you can bring to the Forum. Again, welcome. The experiences you've just related being the first. Thank you.

Nichole

Hellooo, Lipstick Lez, likewise from me, welcome to Susan's and I do pray you will find what you need here, there are those her at various stage of transitioning so don't be afraid to ask questions..

Cindy

All of my current partners know and they knew well before things became hot -n- heavy. I am pretty out, confident about myself, care less what others think, and am active in the LGBT community. If someone cannot handle it, their loss. There are plenty of others out there who handle it just fine. :)

Over my 34 years I have tried both ways and also some middle ground.

I lived total stealth after SRS in 1974 (except for my doctor) and I didn't tell any of the guys I dated or slept with - it was the time of Flower Power and Free Love  ;D I didn't tell my first husband (1976). He didn't find out until after we were separated, then he was mad as hell.

I maintained stealth until I got involved with my second husband and I told him the first night we spent together. He took it well and actually became more protective of me. I am glad I told him because 10 years later a rumor about my past when through the community and he was my greatest defender. If I had not told him, I would have left him in a bad situation but I loved him and didn't want any secrets between us.

Many years later, when I was dating again, I thought it better to have "the talk" with a guy early on rather than waste time with someone who would have a problem with it. Without exception, they all disappeared after "the talk".

I am even more open about my past now than I used to be and I haven't had a serious date in years so make your decision and take your chances!  ::)

Hi Northern Jane, I still feel for you girls who loose their mates because of their past. It just shouldn't be. No one deserves to be alone. I truly don't know if I would have survived living alone, I was used to living most of my life in a home where you are tripping over the bodies of a house full of kids to get across the room.

I am so very grateful that I have my soul mate living with me. I understand the reason for feeling that you need to tell the truth about you past, like a safety precaution as well as appeasing your own mind. But stealth I don't believe I have ever done stealth. But then I was just beginning full time when I was left with three children in my care. That actually was a wonderful for me, I love children.

I just wish there was a way finding a mate without telling them about your past. I tell people my past, but the expereincer of the past that has been experiencing has long been a girl from as far back as mind can reach. It was that girl that was the real me, the other just never existed.

Cindy   

Quote from: Lipstick Lez Liz on June 28, 2008, 11:16:13 AM
Our offficial position position with the public is that I am a GG. She tells me I am "more" feamle than nayone she has ever known.

how exactly are you "more" female than anyone your friend's ever known? inquiring minds want to know.  always thought a female was a female & a woman, a woman.

Quote from: Lipstick Lez Liz on June 28, 2008, 11:16:13 AM
I received a marriage proposal a couple days after the SC in cali declared it legal. I said yes bu there are some legal matters I need to attend to (everything female except my birth cetificate.)

With women, it doesn't really matter if they find out (safety-wise anyway) After being together a couple months, I finally told her and she was totally cool with it. The amazing thing to me is that once someone is intimate with me, they find it incomprehemsible that I am anything but a GG. I guess I can thank Suporn for that! (As well as Dr O)

That time that we were together that I was completely stealth with an experienced butch woman was probably the most exhilarating time of my life.

Hi Liz !

Welcome ....

Guess you represent our diversity here ?

Maybe seeking a "butch" female partner is like for me seeking nice looking masculine guys ?

Just cannot believe even "god" Suporn can create female "bits" that would ever fool another woman, or even the average experienced guy during real close intimate / visual / oral contact (like what lesbians I'm told get up too !!!).

Never seen "photo results" from any surgeon that look anywhere near convincing when "real" close up, myself included, except that the guys I've known never seem to get that visually close .... and are a bit dim about the finer points of a female vulva .... which is so sad !

Laura x