Community Conversation => Non-binary talk => Topic started by: Nero on March 12, 2008, 04:42:25 PM Return to Full Version
Title: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Nero on March 12, 2008, 04:42:25 PM
Post by: Nero on March 12, 2008, 04:42:25 PM
Nero here.
Ok, so we had the poll for binary transsexuals' opinions on androgynees.
Now I'd like to know what you think of us.
I understand that many of you are content with or at least tolerant of your bodies' natural states.
What do you think of people who must change their bodies to find peace?
No right or wrong answers. Honesty appreciated. I promise Nero won't lash you.
Ok, so we had the poll for binary transsexuals' opinions on androgynees.
Now I'd like to know what you think of us.
I understand that many of you are content with or at least tolerant of your bodies' natural states.
What do you think of people who must change their bodies to find peace?
No right or wrong answers. Honesty appreciated. I promise Nero won't lash you.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Pica Pica on March 12, 2008, 04:48:14 PM
Post by: Pica Pica on March 12, 2008, 04:48:14 PM
in the words of an awful take that song.. do what you want, do what you want to do....
or indeed the words of a dull status quo song, whatever you want, whatever you like...
(just don't involve me in pointless and rather dull debates about who is the most transsexuallist)
or indeed the words of a dull status quo song, whatever you want, whatever you like...
(just don't involve me in pointless and rather dull debates about who is the most transsexuallist)
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Kir on March 12, 2008, 05:14:48 PM
Post by: Kir on March 12, 2008, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: Pica Pica on March 12, 2008, 04:48:14 PM
in the words of an awful take that song.. do what you want, do what you want to do....
(just don't involve me in pointless and rather dull debates about who is the most transsexuallist)
I'll second that. I'm cool being what I am. I can understand why someone would want to be one or the other. Not everyone is in the middle, which is fine. If someone is able to cope with what they are without changing anything, then that's cool, but if not, that's cool too.
But I admit, I do hate when people start arguing about being more of something than anyone else. "I'm a better hacker than you" "I am better at that game than you" "I'm more masculine than you" "I'm more dedicated than you" "My dad can beat up your dad". It's all the same crap. Just be yourself, whatever that may be, and let everyone else be themselves, whatever that may be.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: tekla on March 12, 2008, 05:19:11 PM
Post by: tekla on March 12, 2008, 05:19:11 PM
I think peace in your own heart is a road that one must walk for themselves. Hard enough to know what is in our own hearts, much less guess what is in others.
I'm happy with who I am, what I am, and what I do. Sometimes I'm a boy, sometimes more fem, and most of the time I try hard to keep the two flowing together. What other people do, well they have to do what they think is right. I hope for the best for them, though at times I read posts and think "one thing is not going to solve all these problems." I can only hope that it give them a running start on the rest.
I work closely with an FtM. He was kind of 'given' to me as part of our apprentice program because it was thought that I might be more simpatico with gender differences, largely because its no secret that I play in that playground (I do a lot of work for our 'special' events like the Fetish Ball and there is a picture of me rigging in my schoolgirl outfit down at the office). We had two to begin with, but I had to kind of return one. Not because anything was wrong with his work, but more because people with a history of substance abuse and who are in recovery - well, lets say rock venues are a very slippery slope. So it was agreed that perhaps convention work might be better suited. But "Crash" has worked out well, despite the mistake on his first day that got him that nickname. But I'm determined to make it work, so what a $14K light? So I told him - he looked as sad as I've ever seen anyone, here is his big shot to do a rock concert, big show, Smashing Pumpkins and all - and he loses a light. He goes "now what happens" and I replied "You get some red or orange tape, put a big X of it on top of the roadcase and write NFG all over it and we'll stick it back on the truck." And he looks at me and says "You would to that for me?" I just said "Nah, I just so hate Billy Coragan so I'll be doing it to him. So pack it up and send it on its way there Crash." The name stuck.
So I like to work with people, I like to help people get to where they want to go. Even if its someplace I don't think I'm heading.
I'm happy with who I am, what I am, and what I do. Sometimes I'm a boy, sometimes more fem, and most of the time I try hard to keep the two flowing together. What other people do, well they have to do what they think is right. I hope for the best for them, though at times I read posts and think "one thing is not going to solve all these problems." I can only hope that it give them a running start on the rest.
I work closely with an FtM. He was kind of 'given' to me as part of our apprentice program because it was thought that I might be more simpatico with gender differences, largely because its no secret that I play in that playground (I do a lot of work for our 'special' events like the Fetish Ball and there is a picture of me rigging in my schoolgirl outfit down at the office). We had two to begin with, but I had to kind of return one. Not because anything was wrong with his work, but more because people with a history of substance abuse and who are in recovery - well, lets say rock venues are a very slippery slope. So it was agreed that perhaps convention work might be better suited. But "Crash" has worked out well, despite the mistake on his first day that got him that nickname. But I'm determined to make it work, so what a $14K light? So I told him - he looked as sad as I've ever seen anyone, here is his big shot to do a rock concert, big show, Smashing Pumpkins and all - and he loses a light. He goes "now what happens" and I replied "You get some red or orange tape, put a big X of it on top of the roadcase and write NFG all over it and we'll stick it back on the truck." And he looks at me and says "You would to that for me?" I just said "Nah, I just so hate Billy Coragan so I'll be doing it to him. So pack it up and send it on its way there Crash." The name stuck.
So I like to work with people, I like to help people get to where they want to go. Even if its someplace I don't think I'm heading.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: NickSister on March 12, 2008, 05:30:04 PM
Post by: NickSister on March 12, 2008, 05:30:04 PM
I think transsexuals are as varied, flawed and beautiful as anyone else. As for being a transsexual I believe the experience is very similar to my own as an androgyne. I once envied transsexuals in that they seem to have a really obvious target to resolving their gender issues but then I don't think anything is that simple. I've read too many awful stories of their heartbreaking journeys to really wish I was transsexual instead of an androgyne.
I guess I have this perception that some transsexuals see us as fence sitters, that we have not made up our minds yet and I feel really invalidated by this. I could just as easily see some transsexuals as people that have been sold on the whole binary gender thing, when in reality they would be more comfortable on our fence which happens to be wider than your side of it and it has a pool, twice the wardrobe and Rebis. I am sure in reality we could find examples of both fence sitters and androgyne transexuals.
On one level I don't really see androgynes and transsexuals as all that different. When you get down to it the reasons for both are most likely going to be just variations of the same thing. We are siblings. You don't have to understand your siblings but we are still family.
I think we all do what we need to do to be and feel like a real human instead of being like a caged creature trapped in our own carcass.
I guess I have this perception that some transsexuals see us as fence sitters, that we have not made up our minds yet and I feel really invalidated by this. I could just as easily see some transsexuals as people that have been sold on the whole binary gender thing, when in reality they would be more comfortable on our fence which happens to be wider than your side of it and it has a pool, twice the wardrobe and Rebis. I am sure in reality we could find examples of both fence sitters and androgyne transexuals.
On one level I don't really see androgynes and transsexuals as all that different. When you get down to it the reasons for both are most likely going to be just variations of the same thing. We are siblings. You don't have to understand your siblings but we are still family.
I think we all do what we need to do to be and feel like a real human instead of being like a caged creature trapped in our own carcass.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Kir on March 12, 2008, 05:57:54 PM
Post by: Kir on March 12, 2008, 05:57:54 PM
I know that sometimes TS see us as fence sitters. People that haven't decided which way to go. Many of them view this out of concern for our well being. I have even had some say "Are you sure you shouldn't be a female?" and that does bother me. I know what I am, I know what I should be. I am right where I should be.
However, in a similar light, I worry about some of them. Sometimes I think that they shouldn't be TS, they should be andro. They see gender as black and white, they are not happy with what they are, so they think they must go all the way to the other side, when in truth sitting up on our fence might be a much better place for them. Similarly, I worry about people that are very 'normal' and want to stay where they are born, maybe they should come sit on our fence too.
But not all of them, no. Some of the folks sitting on our fence will eventually hop off on one side of the other and find themselves more happy there. I think there are plenty of people that should stay where they are, and plenty that should completely jump that fence and keep on going without looking back. But I really worry about those that go through all the work of going over, but don't consider the middle. If nothing else, it's because sitting in the middle often times does not require expensive hormones or surgery or anything else, it's just a frame of mind, so it's worth considering before making that HUGE commitment. But for some, that commitment is right for them.
However, in a similar light, I worry about some of them. Sometimes I think that they shouldn't be TS, they should be andro. They see gender as black and white, they are not happy with what they are, so they think they must go all the way to the other side, when in truth sitting up on our fence might be a much better place for them. Similarly, I worry about people that are very 'normal' and want to stay where they are born, maybe they should come sit on our fence too.
But not all of them, no. Some of the folks sitting on our fence will eventually hop off on one side of the other and find themselves more happy there. I think there are plenty of people that should stay where they are, and plenty that should completely jump that fence and keep on going without looking back. But I really worry about those that go through all the work of going over, but don't consider the middle. If nothing else, it's because sitting in the middle often times does not require expensive hormones or surgery or anything else, it's just a frame of mind, so it's worth considering before making that HUGE commitment. But for some, that commitment is right for them.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Pica Pica on March 12, 2008, 06:04:38 PM
Post by: Pica Pica on March 12, 2008, 06:04:38 PM
I think of it more as a river than a fence, and we are the ratty's messing about in boats.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: sd on March 12, 2008, 07:05:41 PM
Post by: sd on March 12, 2008, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: NickSister on March 12, 2008, 05:30:04 PM
I think transsexuals are as varied, flawed and beautiful as anyone else. As for being a transsexual I believe the experience is very similar to my own as an androgyne. I once envied transsexuals in that they seem to have a really obvious target to resolving their gender issues but then I don't think anything is that simple. I've read too many awful stories of their heartbreaking journeys to really wish I was transsexual instead of an androgyne.
I guess I have this perception that some transsexuals see us as fence sitters, that we have not made up our minds yet and I feel really invalidated by this. I could just as easily see some transsexuals as people that have been sold on the whole binary gender thing, when in reality they would be more comfortable on our fence which happens to be wider than your side of it and it has a pool, twice the wardrobe and Rebis. I am sure in reality we could find examples of both fence sitters and androgyne transexuals.
On one level I don't really see androgynes and transsexuals as all that different. When you get down to it the reasons for both are most likely going to be just variations of the same thing. We are siblings. You don't have to understand your siblings but we are still family.
I think we all do what we need to do to be and feel like a real human instead of being like a caged creature trapped in our own carcass.
Summed up my thoughts perfectly.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: NickSister on March 12, 2008, 07:11:02 PM
Post by: NickSister on March 12, 2008, 07:11:02 PM
Quote from: Pica Pica on March 12, 2008, 06:04:38 PM
I think of it more as a river than a fence, and we are the ratty's messing about in boats.
Very Wind in the Willows of you old bean.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Shana A on March 12, 2008, 09:25:03 PM
Post by: Shana A on March 12, 2008, 09:25:03 PM
As my grandmother used to say, whatever makes you happy.
I tried the TS path, and it wasn't quite right for me, however I think it'd be an easier road to be binary gender than floating out here in the middle of nowhere with little social recognition.
As far as I'm concerned, if it feels right to someone to be binary, go for it. If it doesn't feel right, be something else ;D I truly support each person's choice to be who they are.
Z
I tried the TS path, and it wasn't quite right for me, however I think it'd be an easier road to be binary gender than floating out here in the middle of nowhere with little social recognition.
As far as I'm concerned, if it feels right to someone to be binary, go for it. If it doesn't feel right, be something else ;D I truly support each person's choice to be who they are.
Z
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Simone Louise on March 12, 2008, 09:58:08 PM
Post by: Simone Louise on March 12, 2008, 09:58:08 PM
I can understand transsexual skepticism about androgynes. There are books and protocols that describe step by step how to take their journey. They make big monetary sacrifices. Often, they sacrifice close relationships.
No one can tell you how to become fully androgynous. I don't know what that would mean. Each of us has to feel our way through dimly lit passages. Each may have a different destination in mind, and that goal may vary from time to time. It may be the journey that is important.
Bon voyage,
Simone
No one can tell you how to become fully androgynous. I don't know what that would mean. Each of us has to feel our way through dimly lit passages. Each may have a different destination in mind, and that goal may vary from time to time. It may be the journey that is important.
Bon voyage,
Simone
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: tekla on March 12, 2008, 10:12:57 PM
Post by: tekla on March 12, 2008, 10:12:57 PM
Ahh, but the joy is IN the journey as it turns out.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: cindianna_jones on March 12, 2008, 10:15:21 PM
Post by: cindianna_jones on March 12, 2008, 10:15:21 PM
Huh? We've now got a new term with which I am not familiar. What is a "binary transsexual"? I don't have a clue.
I am who I am and you are who you are. I accept people for who ever they are. I have learned to accept myself. It's really not important to me... at least that part of a person.
Cindi
I am who I am and you are who you are. I accept people for who ever they are. I have learned to accept myself. It's really not important to me... at least that part of a person.
Cindi
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: tekla on March 12, 2008, 10:24:35 PM
Post by: tekla on March 12, 2008, 10:24:35 PM
I just figure its one more thing I can't be the right kind of. Which is kind of cute. I just divide the world into workers and worthless. As I asked someone the other day - "Can you run anything besides your mouth?"
I don't even accept people for who they are - that's a given. I try to accept them (or reject them) based on what they do with the life they have. All else is mere commentary.
I don't even accept people for who they are - that's a given. I try to accept them (or reject them) based on what they do with the life they have. All else is mere commentary.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Seshatneferw on March 13, 2008, 06:40:38 AM
Post by: Seshatneferw on March 13, 2008, 06:40:38 AM
QuoteWhat do you think of binary transsexuals?
Mu.
That is, I believe that dividing gender into two categories is no better -- but also no worse -- than dividing it into three categories, or five, or any smallish number. On the other hand, it's also quite clear that however many genders you choose to recognise there are people who are clearly male and others who are clearly female, and some of these were born with a sex that did not match that gender.
The bottom line is, while we need these concepts to talk (and think) about gender they also are man-made abstractions, and in that sense a step away from reality. Take them with a grain of salt, and in the end do what feels right to you.
Nfr
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 13, 2008, 07:43:07 AM
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 13, 2008, 07:43:07 AM
sign me up for putting them in straight jackets.
I guess, in order to be polite, that I should explain that, to me, transsexuals are binaries, and all binaries belong in straight jackets. ;)
shoot. In order to prevent myself from being killed by binaries, I should explain that since I think of transsexuals as binaries, it is obvious that I believe in their legitimacy. :)
I guess, in order to be polite, that I should explain that, to me, transsexuals are binaries, and all binaries belong in straight jackets. ;)
shoot. In order to prevent myself from being killed by binaries, I should explain that since I think of transsexuals as binaries, it is obvious that I believe in their legitimacy. :)
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Jaimey on March 17, 2008, 07:14:38 PM
Post by: Jaimey on March 17, 2008, 07:14:38 PM
Reeb, you make me laugh.
If I'm androgyne, I don't see why someone else can't be transsexual. Everyone's different and I'm cool with that.
...although, I do think it would be fun to put binaries in straight jackets. >:D
If I'm androgyne, I don't see why someone else can't be transsexual. Everyone's different and I'm cool with that.
...although, I do think it would be fun to put binaries in straight jackets. >:D
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 17, 2008, 08:28:05 PM
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 17, 2008, 08:28:05 PM
A Binary! *points in excitement* Get her. She must not be allowed to remain free and untethered!
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Jaimey on March 19, 2008, 09:05:36 PM
Post by: Jaimey on March 19, 2008, 09:05:36 PM
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on March 17, 2008, 08:01:20 PMQuote from: Jaimey on March 17, 2008, 07:14:38 PM
Reeb, you make me laugh.
If I'm androgyne, I don't see why someone else can't be transsexual. Everyone's different and I'm cool with that.
...although, I do think it would be fun to put binaries in straight jackets. >:D
hmph! i *much* prefer handcuffs! ;)
We can take care of that. Do you prefer plain, leather, or pink and fluffy? >:D
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: sd on March 19, 2008, 09:32:38 PM
Post by: sd on March 19, 2008, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: Jaimey on March 19, 2008, 09:05:36 PMLeather, are you nuts?Quote from: Ashley Michelle on March 17, 2008, 08:01:20 PMQuote from: Jaimey on March 17, 2008, 07:14:38 PM
Reeb, you make me laugh.
If I'm androgyne, I don't see why someone else can't be transsexual. Everyone's different and I'm cool with that.
...although, I do think it would be fun to put binaries in straight jackets. >:D
hmph! i *much* prefer handcuffs! ;)
We can take care of that. Do you prefer plain, leather, or pink and fluffy? >:D
Pink and fluffy, the rest would clash with the shoes.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 20, 2008, 09:36:34 AM
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 20, 2008, 09:36:34 AM
we don't know that Ashley wears shoes.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: debbie j on March 20, 2008, 10:10:04 PM
Post by: debbie j on March 20, 2008, 10:10:04 PM
Quote from: sd on March 19, 2008, 09:32:38 PMQuote from: Jaimey on March 19, 2008, 09:05:36 PMQuote from: Ashley Michelle on March 17, 2008, 08:01:20 PMQuote from: Jaimey on March 17, 2008, 07:14:38 PM
Reeb, you make me laugh.
If I'm androgyne, I don't see why someone else can't be transsexual. Everyone's different and I'm cool with that.
...although, I do think it would be fun to put binaries in straight jackets. >:D
hmph! i *much* prefer handcuffs! ;)
We can take care of that. Do you prefer plain, leather, or pink and fluffy? >:D
Leather, are you nuts? you really dare to ask that sd :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :P
Pink and fluffy, the rest would clash with the shoes. no they will not if the shoes are pink then they will
be matching ;) ;)
Posted on: March 20, 2008, 09:07:22 PM
Quote from: Rebis on March 17, 2008, 08:28:05 PM
A Binary! *points in excitement* Get her. She must not be allowed to remain free and untethered!
no no no WE Binary,s shall be FREE FREE i say free Binary,s !!
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: sd on March 20, 2008, 10:43:44 PM
Post by: sd on March 20, 2008, 10:43:44 PM
Quote from: debbie j on March 20, 2008, 10:10:04 PMi say free Binary,s !!
Free?
I'll take one of each. >:D
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: lady amarant on March 21, 2008, 01:34:52 AM
Post by: lady amarant on March 21, 2008, 01:34:52 AM
Quote from: Kir on March 12, 2008, 05:57:54 PM
I know that sometimes TS see us as fence sitters.
Aw! I don't think of you as fence-sitters. I think you are that rarest of creature that can take the best both masculinity and femininity have to them and overcome the weaknesses of both. One step closer to enlightenment, IMHO!
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Seshatneferw on March 21, 2008, 02:25:07 AM
Post by: Seshatneferw on March 21, 2008, 02:25:07 AM
Nah, not all non-binaries are fence-sitters. Some of us tried to ram through the fence and got stuck.
Nfr
Nfr
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: sd on March 21, 2008, 02:51:07 AM
Post by: sd on March 21, 2008, 02:51:07 AM
Straddling hurts. I prefer to lean to one side a bit.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Lutin on March 21, 2008, 07:06:42 AM
Post by: Lutin on March 21, 2008, 07:06:42 AM
QuoteStraddling hurts. I prefer to lean to one side a bit.
It would hurt, if the "fence" were a barrier. However, "fence" can also mean "middle man", a person who acts as "an intermediary between two parties" (Wiktionary) - in which case, I'm not so sure the straddling would be all that painful... ;)
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: debbie j on March 21, 2008, 07:45:21 AM
Post by: debbie j on March 21, 2008, 07:45:21 AM
Quote from: sd on March 20, 2008, 10:43:44 PMQuote from: debbie j on March 20, 2008, 10:10:04 PMi say free Binary,s !!
Free?
I'll take one of each. >:D
oh you think so huh sd >:D >:D
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: sd on March 21, 2008, 11:27:28 AM
Post by: sd on March 21, 2008, 11:27:28 AM
Quote from: Lutin on March 21, 2008, 07:06:42 AMYou know, I never realized just how dirty of a mind I had until just now. ;DQuoteStraddling hurts. I prefer to lean to one side a bit.
It would hurt, if the "fence" were a barrier. However, "fence" can also mean "middle man", a person who acts as "an intermediary between two parties" (Wiktionary) - in which case, I'm not so sure the straddling would be all that painful... ;)
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Constance on March 21, 2008, 11:45:33 AM
Post by: Constance on March 21, 2008, 11:45:33 AM
I'm guessing that the phrase "binary transsexual" means FtM or MtF; that a person can see themself as one or the other, but not necessarily something in between.
That said, I do believe in their legitimacy. At the same time, I do not feel that the binary system works for me specifically. I feel I don't completely fit into my male body, but that I wouldn't necessarily fit any better in a female body. The binary system seems too limiting for me. Obviously, that is not the case for others.
Kir said, "But I admit, I do hate when people start arguing about being more of something than anyone else. "I'm a better hacker than you" "I am better at that game than you" "I'm more masculine than you" "I'm more dedicated than you" "My dad can beat up your dad". It's all the same crap. Just be yourself, whatever that may be, and let everyone else be themselves, whatever that may be."
Some of these things can indeed be qualified. I've certainly met people who are better hackers than I and people who are better at various games than I. But, things like masculinity, femmininity, and transexuality (it seems to be) are concepts that vary depending on one's point of view.
Posted on: March 21, 2008, 09:44:41 AM
That said, I do believe in their legitimacy. At the same time, I do not feel that the binary system works for me specifically. I feel I don't completely fit into my male body, but that I wouldn't necessarily fit any better in a female body. The binary system seems too limiting for me. Obviously, that is not the case for others.
Kir said, "But I admit, I do hate when people start arguing about being more of something than anyone else. "I'm a better hacker than you" "I am better at that game than you" "I'm more masculine than you" "I'm more dedicated than you" "My dad can beat up your dad". It's all the same crap. Just be yourself, whatever that may be, and let everyone else be themselves, whatever that may be."
Some of these things can indeed be qualified. I've certainly met people who are better hackers than I and people who are better at various games than I. But, things like masculinity, femmininity, and transexuality (it seems to be) are concepts that vary depending on one's point of view.
Posted on: March 21, 2008, 09:44:41 AM
Quote from: tekla on March 12, 2008, 10:24:35 PMWhat makes a person "worthless" to you?
I just divide the world into workers and worthless.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: tekla on March 21, 2008, 11:51:16 AM
Post by: tekla on March 21, 2008, 11:51:16 AM
Not being able - or willing (and in particular those who could, and don't) - to do real-world worthwhile work.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 21, 2008, 12:02:05 PM
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 21, 2008, 12:02:05 PM
Quote from: tekla on March 21, 2008, 11:51:16 AMI entirely disagree with this. There are 'worthless' people, but they are people who actively do harm to others or blithely become a burden to others.
Not being able - or willing (and in particular those who could, and don't) - to do real-world worthwhile work.
I happen to believe that there are people who could do and don't do real-world work who are very valuable simply because they are people. I feel there is a place for people whose happiness is derived from that specific perspective.
I like happy people. :) I like people being happy :)
I am a goof. ::)
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: NicholeW. on March 21, 2008, 12:13:30 PM
Post by: NicholeW. on March 21, 2008, 12:13:30 PM
I don't see what what you think of me or what I think of you vis-a-vis identity and who we are amounts to a very important exercise at all.
OTH if I have a question you may help me with, well, I really don't care all that much what your identity tells you you are. You are 'a help' as far as I'm concerned.
And if I could do the same for you, would it matter to you that I accept the binary?
N~
OTH if I have a question you may help me with, well, I really don't care all that much what your identity tells you you are. You are 'a help' as far as I'm concerned.
And if I could do the same for you, would it matter to you that I accept the binary?
N~
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: tekla on March 21, 2008, 12:14:58 PM
Post by: tekla on March 21, 2008, 12:14:58 PM
Oh I like happy people too, as long as they are 'over there' being happy. Heck, its even fine if you don't know anything as long as your not trying to 'help.' I've gone on tour where for the most part, life is good. We either have union crews, or crews from the local production company who know their stuff - but I've also had Manpower/LaborTemp types show up in Tevas to load trucks, and I can't allow that. I've had Manpower send out a person in a wheelchair to load and unload trucks and stack and unstack speakers that weigh 150 pounds each. How is that working out? So I make sure they get paid, I just don't let them near the stuff I'm responsible for.
I guess I just know too many 'artists' who are waiting for inspiration, 'writers' waiting to write, and people whose "art is their life (and can I borrow five bucks?)"
I guess I just know too many 'artists' who are waiting for inspiration, 'writers' waiting to write, and people whose "art is their life (and can I borrow five bucks?)"
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: NicholeW. on March 21, 2008, 12:26:37 PM
Post by: NicholeW. on March 21, 2008, 12:26:37 PM
I wouldn't anticipate that you'd ever ask for help from much of anyone, tekla.
No, you can't borrow $5. Sell one of your homes. ;)
N~
No, you can't borrow $5. Sell one of your homes. ;)
N~
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Constance on March 21, 2008, 12:30:38 PM
Post by: Constance on March 21, 2008, 12:30:38 PM
Quote from: Rebis on March 21, 2008, 12:02:05 PMI have to agree with Rebis.Quote from: tekla on March 21, 2008, 11:51:16 AMI entirely disagree with this. There are 'worthless' people, but they are people who actively do harm to others or blithely become a burden to others.
Not being able - or willing (and in particular those who could, and don't) - to do real-world worthwhile work.
I happen to believe that there are people who could do and don't do real-world work who are very valuable simply because they are people. I feel there is a place for people whose happiness is derived from that specific perspective.
My kids are both not doing "real-world worthwhile work," but I don't think that makes them worthless. For that matter, my wife is current unemployed though looking for work. She is far from worthless. Being a wife and mother is worthwhile, too.
If being too old, too young, or too infirm "to do real-world worthwhile work" makes one worthless, it seems that you must find a great many people to be worthless due to that which is beyond their control.
Or, do I misunderstand you Tekla?
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: tekla on March 21, 2008, 12:34:49 PM
Post by: tekla on March 21, 2008, 12:34:49 PM
Only have one, and its more of a A frame cabin to be exact. And that's not me, that's the cali types whose 'life is their art' as they hang in the park or on the beach. And I ask for help all the time, what I do is pretty collaborative for the most part. I mean you can have one guy with one guitar, but a concert requires staff. Most of what I do requires two or more people per task. Its a teamwork deal, with the more the merrier. Come on Nichole, its union work, if we need four, we use five and ask for six.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: debbie j on March 21, 2008, 08:57:06 PM
Post by: debbie j on March 21, 2008, 08:57:06 PM
Quote from: sd on March 21, 2008, 11:27:28 AMQuote from: Lutin on March 21, 2008, 07:06:42 AMYou know, I never realized just how dirty of a mind I had until just now. ;DQuoteStraddling hurts. I prefer to lean to one side a bit.
It would hurt, if the "fence" were a barrier. However, "fence" can also mean "middle man", a person who acts as "an intermediary between two parties" (Wiktionary) - in which case, I'm not so sure the straddling would be all that painful... ;)
oh you think so huh sd hum,mmmm >:D >:D :icon_evil_laugh: :icon_evil_laugh:
Posted on: March 21, 2008, 07:53:35 PM
Quote from: tekla on March 21, 2008, 12:34:49 PM
Only have one, and its more of a A frame cabin to be exact. And that's not me, that's the cali types whose 'life is their art' as they hang in the park or on the beach. And I ask for help all the time, what I do is pretty collaborative for the most part. I mean you can have one guy with one guitar, but a concert requires staff. Most of what I do requires two or more people per task. Its a teamwork deal, with the more the merrier. Come on Nichole, its union work, if we need four, we use five and ask for six.
humm tekla with that many homes. you should be able to get at lest $15.00 ;) . besides me and Nichole
got better things to spend our doe on. ;) right Nichole, ;D
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: tekla on March 22, 2008, 12:40:17 AM
Post by: tekla on March 22, 2008, 12:40:17 AM
a female dear ---- funny that that should be the next line. And hey, I chose a house/home/cabin a way back in 75 when SRS was not the exact other choice. However. I can retire on my stupid cabin. Can you retire on your neo-vagania? Odd question to be sure. But a valid question, nonetheless.
You pay your money, and you take your chances. Do not depend on other people to bail you out, should they prove the second best choice.
You pay your money, and you take your chances. Do not depend on other people to bail you out, should they prove the second best choice.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: lady amarant on March 22, 2008, 12:42:42 AM
Post by: lady amarant on March 22, 2008, 12:42:42 AM
Quote from: tekla on March 22, 2008, 12:40:17 AM
I can retire on my stupid cabin. Can you retire on your neo-vagania? Odd question to be sure. But a valid question, nonetheless.
Hehe. If you're lucky enough to find a rich old guy who loves you ... hmmmm. I need to go back to bed. My mind is wicked evil this morning...
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: tekla on March 22, 2008, 01:51:42 AM
Post by: tekla on March 22, 2008, 01:51:42 AM
Hey, I'm at the point in my live where a good day skiing is better than any P***y. I've had enough of the second, never enough of the first.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: lady amarant on March 22, 2008, 01:59:19 AM
Post by: lady amarant on March 22, 2008, 01:59:19 AM
Quote from: tekla on March 22, 2008, 01:51:42 AM
Hey, I'm at the point in my live where a good day skiing is better than any P***y. I've had enough of the second, never enough of the first.
Skiing = pain = traction. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Personally, I don't think I've had enough of the second yet... >:D
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: debbie j on March 22, 2008, 08:50:21 AM
Post by: debbie j on March 22, 2008, 08:50:21 AM
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on March 21, 2008, 10:23:27 PM
doe, a deer, a female deer....... :icon_headfones:
ugh that ant the kinda of doe i hand in mind :laugh:
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: debbie j on March 22, 2008, 07:32:20 PM
Post by: debbie j on March 22, 2008, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on March 22, 2008, 09:13:57 AMQuote from: debbie j on March 22, 2008, 08:50:21 AMQuote from: Ashley Michelle on March 21, 2008, 10:23:27 PM
doe, a deer, a female deer....... :icon_headfones:
ugh that ant the kinda of doe i hand in mind :laugh:
it ant? >:D :D
no Ashley not by any means :icon_no: :icon_no:
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Pica Pica on March 22, 2008, 09:00:00 PM
Post by: Pica Pica on March 22, 2008, 09:00:00 PM
Quote from: Rebis on March 21, 2008, 12:02:05 PM
I like happy people. :) I like people being happy :)
I am a goof. ::)
All hail the goofs.
However I see where Tekla is coming from, which is old fashioned class irritation. I am taking an MA in creative writing, I am a writer waiting for my time to come, however I come from the working classes - I can't afford for daddy to pay for me to spend time in beautiful places where I wait for inspiration. I work at menial tasks like billy-o and I spend most of my free time writing and writing, inspiration and comfort be damned. It is not worthless people that are annoying, it's people who assume their wealth and importance are based on their parents wealth and importance. Everyone is worth something, but they have to prove that worth somehow,and not always paid employment.
What I am trying to say is that there are worthless people, they are the people who do not chip in the talents and even mere physical presence that they have, because they think they are worth much more than that. It's the people that don't muck in that make me sick.
Title: Re: All Unicorns: What do you think of binary transsexuals?
Post by: Lokaeign on March 30, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Post by: Lokaeign on March 30, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Absolutely I would affirm anyone's right to construct hir gender identity in the most meaningful way to hir. If that means ze identifies as wholly male or wholly female, then I would accept that and support it. I think it's reasonable to argue that men have feminine traits and women masculine ones, but that doesn't mean they're not still definately men and definately women.
In fact I think it's part of my "job" as a 3rd-gendered person to offer such affirmation since the existance of androgynes is sometimes co-opted by transphobes who point to us and say "oh, look at this person over here--ze doesn't identify as hir assigned gender, but ze hasn't transitioned or had any medical gender confirmation, so binary transfolk must not need it either."
In fact I think it's part of my "job" as a 3rd-gendered person to offer such affirmation since the existance of androgynes is sometimes co-opted by transphobes who point to us and say "oh, look at this person over here--ze doesn't identify as hir assigned gender, but ze hasn't transitioned or had any medical gender confirmation, so binary transfolk must not need it either."