Community Conversation => Non-binary talk => Topic started by: Caroline on March 22, 2008, 04:21:00 PM Return to Full Version
Title: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: Caroline on March 22, 2008, 04:21:00 PM
Post by: Caroline on March 22, 2008, 04:21:00 PM
This was inspired by Nero's thread asking "What is masculine and what is feminine?".
What is the significance of these terms to you (asking everyone here, not just Nero)? What does compiling a list of traits predominantly exhibited by men and a list of traits predominantly exhibited by women achieve? I guess it allows you to see where you fit between those extreme points, but why do you want to know that anyway? If men can be masculine or feminine or anywhere in between, and so can women, then why can't intergendered people also be masculine or feminine or anywhere in between?
Doesn't saying 'androgynes are a blend of masculine and feminine characteristics' make it a MORE restrictive than male or female?! Most people will not question the gender of a masculine woman or a feminine man, so why can't you be a masculine androgyne or a feminine androgyne?
If we define androgyny as a blend of masculine and feminine rather than male and female then haven't we removed it from being a definition of gender and instead made it a definition of behavior? Are we then a forum populated by androgynous men and androgynous women? (apologies to any intersex people)
What is the significance of these terms to you (asking everyone here, not just Nero)? What does compiling a list of traits predominantly exhibited by men and a list of traits predominantly exhibited by women achieve? I guess it allows you to see where you fit between those extreme points, but why do you want to know that anyway? If men can be masculine or feminine or anywhere in between, and so can women, then why can't intergendered people also be masculine or feminine or anywhere in between?
Doesn't saying 'androgynes are a blend of masculine and feminine characteristics' make it a MORE restrictive than male or female?! Most people will not question the gender of a masculine woman or a feminine man, so why can't you be a masculine androgyne or a feminine androgyne?
If we define androgyny as a blend of masculine and feminine rather than male and female then haven't we removed it from being a definition of gender and instead made it a definition of behavior? Are we then a forum populated by androgynous men and androgynous women? (apologies to any intersex people)
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: Nero on March 22, 2008, 04:29:00 PM
Post by: Nero on March 22, 2008, 04:29:00 PM
Quote from: Andra on March 22, 2008, 04:21:00 PMAre we then a forum populated by androgynous men and androgynous women?
No, course not. I guess I just thought of androgynees as both male and female. Or neither, but just assumed they'd exhibit a mixture of 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits. Binary thinking, I guess.
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: Jaycie on March 22, 2008, 04:30:20 PM
Post by: Jaycie on March 22, 2008, 04:30:20 PM
Quote from: Andra on March 22, 2008, 04:21:00 PM
If we define androgyny as a blend of masculine and feminine rather than male and female then haven't we removed it from being a definition of gender and instead made it a definition of behavior? Are we then a forum populated by androgynous men and androgynous women? (apologies to any intersex people)
Well, technically that's all this forum 'can' be populated with within the terms and defintions of this site...
Androgyne: An androgynous person
Androgynous: Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,22474.0.html
>.>
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: Caroline on March 22, 2008, 04:31:20 PM
Post by: Caroline on March 22, 2008, 04:31:20 PM
Quote from: Nero on March 22, 2008, 04:29:00 PMQuote from: Andra on March 22, 2008, 04:21:00 PMAre we then a forum populated by androgynous men and androgynous women?
No, course not. I guess I just thought of androgynees as both male and female. Or neither, but just assumed they'd exhibit a mixture of 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits. Binary thinking, I guess.
But isn't that a reasonable conclusion if we take 'androgyne' to be a definition of behaviour not gender? I'm not saying it's the case, I'm just proposing that if X then Y.
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: Nero on March 22, 2008, 04:46:27 PM
Post by: Nero on March 22, 2008, 04:46:27 PM
Quote from: Andra on March 22, 2008, 04:31:20 PMeQuote from: Nero on March 22, 2008, 04:29:00 PMQuote from: Andra on March 22, 2008, 04:21:00 PMAre we then a forum populated by androgynous men and androgynous women?
No, course not. I guess I just thought of androgynees as both male and female. Or neither, but just assumed they'd exhibit a mixture of 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits. Binary thinking, I guess.
But isn't that a reasonable conclusion if we take 'androgyne' to be a definition of behaviour not gender? I'm not saying it's the case, I'm just proposing that if X then Y.
Good question. I think most masculine and feminine stereotypes are based somewhat in truth - more men exhibit certain traits than women and vice versa. But such is the nature of stereotypes. Course there are zillions of exceptions.
I consider myself an androgynous male. I am a man but I exhibit some stereotypically femmy traits. I understand there is a difference between myself and an androgyne. There is a difference between a man and an androgynee - I'm just interested and intrigued. I seek to understand, that is all. I mean no offense in doing so.
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: Caroline on March 22, 2008, 04:54:19 PM
Post by: Caroline on March 22, 2008, 04:54:19 PM
Quote from: Nero on March 22, 2008, 04:46:27 PM
I seek to understand, that is all. I mean no offense in doing so.
No offence caused, at least not to me. It's rather interesting to discover what 'androgyne' and 'androgyny' mean to people here. :)
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: Shana A on March 22, 2008, 06:42:34 PM
Post by: Shana A on March 22, 2008, 06:42:34 PM
Great question. I actually try to not attribute people's behaviors as being part of their gender, they're just different personality traits. I don't classify them as belonging to a particular gender. Some people do exhibit behaviors or traits that are stereotypically associated with one or another gender, but there is also considerable diversity.
Seeing as how I truly dislike people making assumptions about me based on my perceived physical sex or gender, I endeavor to do the same with everyone I encounter. I don't treat a person one way because they're perceived female and someone else another way because they're perceived male. We're all humans.
Z
Seeing as how I truly dislike people making assumptions about me based on my perceived physical sex or gender, I endeavor to do the same with everyone I encounter. I don't treat a person one way because they're perceived female and someone else another way because they're perceived male. We're all humans.
Z
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: Caroline on March 28, 2008, 12:44:09 PM
Post by: Caroline on March 28, 2008, 12:44:09 PM
I think this says it better than I could: http://www.out.com/detail.asp?id=23558
Should I assume that the dearth of responses implies I've hit the nail on the head? ::)
Should I assume that the dearth of responses implies I've hit the nail on the head? ::)
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 28, 2008, 03:13:18 PM
Post by: RebeccaFog on March 28, 2008, 03:13:18 PM
Were I you, I would assume the dearth of replies is more due to some of us missing this thread. You should know by now that you can't shut us up. ::)
I'm following your link.
Before I go there, however, let me just say that the concepts have nearly become one to me.
I'm following your link.
Before I go there, however, let me just say that the concepts have nearly become one to me.
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: Shana A on March 28, 2008, 03:34:06 PM
Post by: Shana A on March 28, 2008, 03:34:06 PM
Quote from: Andra on March 28, 2008, 12:44:09 PM
I think this says it better than I could: http://www.out.com/detail.asp?id=23558
Should I assume that the dearth of responses implies I've hit the nail on the head? ::)
That's an excellent article!
Actually, I really don't know what is masculine or feminine anymore... or why such supposed traits are presumed to be important by so many people. I've often felt as though I were post transgender. I'd love to see a world in which everyone was free to express their gender however they felt it, and with no societal assumptions that a person should be or act a particular way just because their body happened to appear to be male or female. Yes, it's utopian, but I'd be happy living there :)
Z
Title: Re: What use are the terms masculine and feminine?
Post by: NicholeW. on March 28, 2008, 04:56:42 PM
Post by: NicholeW. on March 28, 2008, 04:56:42 PM
Quote from: Andra on March 28, 2008, 12:44:09 PM
I think this says it better than I could: http://www.out.com/detail.asp?id=23558
Should I assume that the dearth of responses implies I've hit the nail on the head? ::)
Or perhaps that you missed the nail and hit the possible responders on the head? ;)
Or maybe you have simply given us something to consider before posting on rather than our making easy retorts. Now, that would be truly fantastic.
Although, if you'd like to occupy yourself while you wait for scintillating agreement, disagreement or neutrality you could read this from the same issue as your link. http://www.out.com/detail.asp?id=23542
Nichole