Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Kate, forgive me for stealing your topic in your Easter post but the more I've
thought about this the more I want to know.

My question is this, to fully transition do we need to cut ties to the past? Do you
ever get past being "him" or "he"? It seems that many here have moved on or cut their
ties, do I have that right? Or is it possible to become "her" and be forgotten as "him"?

Since it takes as long to get out as it did to get in, in some cases not.  You just have to weigh if their being in your life is worth a missed pronoun here and there.

Quote from: tekla on March 25, 2008, 12:48:48 PM
Since it takes as long to get out as it did to get in, in some cases not.  You just have to weigh if their being in your life is worth a missed pronoun here and there.

Yep, that's just it. Everyone's situation is different. Sometimes people accept you and all, but just slip with a "him" out of habit. And sometimes there are people who do it because they DON'T accept you.

Are you close to your relatives, coworkers and friends? See, truth be told, no one would particularly miss me if I vanished. I have NO contact with my own family beyond my parents - and even there, Dad avoids me and Mom seems surprised every time we talk that I'm "still doing this." She hasn't met me as Kate. I haven't seen them for a year and a half now.

I have a best friend, but he's kinda fallen away since I transitioned. He accepts me just fine, but I guess Be Careful What You Wish For, as now that we don't do male sorta things (cars, Xbox, computers), he seems less and less interested. I'm not the same person he became friends with. When we hang out together now, it looks like we're on a date... which is seriously weird, lol.

My wife... well, she hasn't touched me in two years. I can deal without the sexual intimacy, but there isn't even any affection anymore. She loves me, but she doesn't LIKE me. We're strictly two women living together, cooperating to help one another out, but we're not "together" in any real sense of the word aside from that love we have for one another. If I left, I'm sure it'd hurt... but she could also finally have the things she constantly tells me I stole from her: a heterosexual sex life, a husband, and perhaps a child. Not to mention not living in "TS Central" anymore.

My coworkers would miss me the most I think. I've been at my job for 17 years, so I have quite a history with them. But they'd find a young, eager kid just out of college whom I'm sure would love the opportunity.

I'd really miss my wife's family though. They pretty much adopted me, lol, and I just love them SO much. And yet... they're not "mine."

Geez, until I typed all that out, I didn't realize that I AM losing most of those things I sought to hold onto. And I'm the one always going on about how I lost nothing, lol. I mean, no one HATES me, but still... it looks like that life is leaving me, whether I want it to or not. It may not just be a matter of whether WE need to leave to live an authentic life... that life may slowly leave us anyway.

And maybe that's how it should be. It's validating in a sad kinda way. My wife is a heterosexual woman... so she *shouldn't* want to be with me. My friend is a heterosexual male... so he *shouldn't* want to be friends with me in a "guy" way anymore. My family raised a son... so they *shouldn't* instantly love this woman who murdered him. I got nothing less than exactly what I asked for: to be seen as the female, the woman, I am in every way, consequences be damned.

~Kate~

Well, aside from being very sad, I guess Bob Dylan once said, "If you got nothing, you go nothing to lose" which is a kind of freedom.

Looking at it a different way, you are already gone, at least the person they knew before. The son, the husband, the
co-worker are all gone replaced by a (hopefully) better Kate. But they don't know Kate. Kate is foreign to them.

I've struggled with this for the past few days and I've tried to put myself in their place. How would I react? I keep
coming back to "I would not take it very well" and I would have a hard time accepting it.

As Amanda I think I'll always be asking "what are they thinking about me?", "what are they saying about me?". As hard
as it would be to move to a different city and break ties with family, I'm starting to wonder if that would be the least
painful way to be Amanda. The end result sounds like heaven to me, a place where all I would be known as is
Amanda not him. It's just the process of getting there that sucks.

Quote from: Kate on March 25, 2008, 01:40:01 PM
I got nothing less than exactly what I asked for: to be seen as the female, the woman, I am in every way, consequences be damned.

Is that truly all you asked for, Kate? Somehow I think we all ask for more than that. And why shouldn't one have more?

Does someone have to lose family and friends? I don't think anyone HAS to. We often lose great swatches of both though. Perhaps cis-sexual people find it difficult to discover that they also have gender identities. IOW they are congruent as they are. They needn't change body to match brain/soul. To have to realize that they have one, may well be as extraordinarily difficult for them as finding our own way to congruity has been for us.

Yet, Julia Serano points out that thirty years ago people seldom if ever referred to themselves as heterosexual. They were simply people when they related sexually to a gender configured differently than their own. Now many, probably most, heteros refer to themselves as that. They 'discovered' their sexuality. They now find that a 'natural' thing to do. 

I suspect that Serano is also right in thinking that as people transition and show themselves in Gynandrous/Androgynous ways that cis-sexuals will begin to discover their own gender identities.

To answer the original question is difficult. Certainly Tekla made an excellent start. But, beyond that, I think you also have to decide what is important in your life. Am I not only willing to do the work of transition, but am I also willing to do the work or maintaining relationships with those I already love and build others with those I have yet to meet?

Questions like this one are never, I think, cut and dried/yes or no.

Nichole   

I won't have to miss my friends, they accept me, and I think they will continue to do so after all the changes.
I don't know what my parents are going to do.  Yeah, they thought they had a son, but it's not like I'm dying and will be a completely different person, just more comfortable with myself.  So I don't see them as having a problem either.
As for the co-workers, it's just a temporary job for my college co-op so after that I get a fresh start.

Quote from: Kate on March 25, 2008, 01:40:01 PM



I have a best friend, but he's kinda fallen away since I transitioned. He accepts me just fine, but I guess Be Careful What You Wish For, as now that we don't do male sorta things (cars, Xbox, computers), he seems less and less interested. I'm not the same person he became friends with. When we hang out together now, it looks like we're on a date... which is seriously weird, lol.


~Kate~

LOL- I can relate too with this. While I'm not accepted as "one of the girls" in society since I haven't even come out. I share absouletly nothing in common guys. Even though I may look like one of the guys I'm not one of them. Like there's nothing really to talk about with guys- a lot of guys do however see me as a guy but don't relate or associate with- They'll say "wats up" etc etc but that's all it really goes- It NEVER goes to the personal aspect of a conversation that guys have with each other.- Like some guys meet me for the first time. And you know how people first say hi to each other and joke around to get to be friend and know each other. it never goes past that..lol...

I think the BIG part of people seeing me as a guy still is my appearance. It's just stereotyping that people are inclined to do by human nature. It's just how MOST people's brains work. For example- many people have a tendency to think I'm some "tough, rude, obnixous, cocky" guy just based on appearance. What's funny is that I'm a very quiet kind of person- and people start taking me as rude when I don't even intend to be.- people have a VERY bad habit of judging others based on clothes, hair and physical appearance. Don't want to get too long here but I'm reading a book called Law of Success which is a physcology type book that teaches you how to build a winning personality to achieve success. One of the biggest problems is judging others on first appearances. It said that you have to observe people closely in HOW they react when they are angry, in love, jealous, fearful, when writing, when eating, when money is involved, when in loss.

But you see, Now I realize that LOOKING like a woman or man WILL not make you fit in that gender. Rather your personality, how you are in the INSIDE, how well you relate to that gender and if your BRAIN is wired to behave like that gender is the important piece! For example. You could look like a man when you really feel like a woman. Sure others would treat you like a man based on your appearance. BUt once they really get to know you deep inside- you won't recieve the same treatment. Maybe they won't treat you as a woman but they sure won't treat you like man much.

Hormones, surgery etc can only do so much- it's your BRAIN and THOUGHTS that make you, YOU!- Sure, HRT makes brain changes happen BUT it was your brain unaltered that decided to embark on Hormones.

As for Male friends, Kate, I know guys casually here and their type of thing but I don't have anything to do with them.
As for girls- I can relate to them better but I'm not friends with them either.

As for Relatives and Family. Well my cousins, uncles and aunts aren't too close nor too distant. Were sort of like close friends but also family. You can say we are close since I maybe be moving in with them but I don't do "male things" with guys in my family.

I don't have interests in video games, sports much etc- but that is just a stereotype. Girls can like video games and still relate better with girls.

Okay this is my last comment and then I'll shutup lol, I think transgenders are generally (not specifically) better at understanding human behavior and how socialization works. While others don't put much though into it- they just dive in.- THAT'S A BENEFIT OF BEING TS!

Amanda,

I encourage you to attempt to maintain your family relationships.  I was never close to my cousins so I haven't seen any of them since my transition.  I have been able to keep a good relationship with my parents and siblings.  Mom and Dad frequently get the pronouns wrong and refuse to use the correct pronouns when I'm not around.  It's been 22 years.  But when they come visit or when I fly out to their place, they do try.

I had a pretty good relationship with my ex until I published my book.  Once she found out that I actually discussed details of the night of our marriage, she cut me out of her life. My daughter, the only one in my family to actually read my book, was the one who told her mother of all the "terrible things" I wrote about.  She has cut me off as well. My son still contacts me from time to time.  He does try.  He also invites me into his home when I visit Utah.  His wife clearly does not like me.  She told me off recently and we haven't spoken since. Yet, I'm sure that she would be polite to me if I showed up on their doorstep.

I was able to tell my grandmother that I loved her very much shortly before she died.  She responded with "You were my first grandchild and regardless of the problems you have had, I have always had a special place in my heart for you.  I love you too."

So hon... it is not a panacea.  But I think that I've been patient and worked hard to keep them in my life.  I also have lived in a separate state which has solved all kinds of problems.  It has been worth while in the long run.  I love to call Mom and Dad every week.  They are planning on coming out next week for an extended visit.  I'm just going to pretend that Dad has Alzheimer's or something if he screws the pronouns up in a restaurant. It has happened before and it seems to work.

Cindi

The separate state thingy sounds good :)

Thanks for the comments Cindi, I think the word you used "patient" may be the best thing to keep in mind.

Maybe I'm worrying about all this for nothing and I need to be patient and see how things work out.

Amanda

Do you have to cut ties to your family/friends/job to fully transition?

No. I've always been feminine in my presentation and image for many years so I didn't have any drastic changes in my life to the way it was before.....so things are as they have always been....

I don't see one male friend very often but if I went to his house I'd probably get a cup of tea and a chat...

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on March 25, 2008, 01:48:55 PM

Quote from: Kate on March 25, 2008, 01:40:01 PM
See, truth be told, no one would particularly miss me if I vanished.

>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(  :'(

I'd have to second Ashley's opinion on that one.

Posted on: 26 March 2008, 07:15:31

---

But when it boils down to it:

"Only when you have lost everything are you free to do anything"

-Chuck Palaniuk, Fight Club

Kate: The way you've described your relationships, I hear what you are saying. I was so nervous about sending out my letter to my relatives, until I thought about it and realised I haven't seen most of them in 4 or 5 years. It literally becomes a question of Weddings and Funerals. And as you say, maybe it's not exactly fair to expect people we have known for so long to just all of a sudden switch their minds around and accept us in our correct gender.

It's a tough call either way though. Those connections are still there, even if distant, and the thought of letting them go to start from scratch somewhere else... that's scary. But then, to my mind people who go through transition, against all the odds. If anybody has the strength to do this, it's us. Ultimately it really does become a value call - what do you value more

Quote from: lady amarant on March 26, 2008, 08:17:50 AM
The way you've described your relationships, I hear what you are saying. I was so nervous about sending out my letter to my relatives, until I thought about it and realised I haven't seen most of them in 4 or 5 years.

Same here. Aside from my parents, NONE of my blood relatives know. I even have an older brother - but he hasn't spoken to me in like 15 years, so... oh well. The only things I'm clinging to are my job (which just feels "wrong" for me anymore, but it's safe) and my "marriage" (such as it is). But if my wife and I split, and I find a different source of income as Kate... well actually, then I WILL have started over. I don't necessarily have to move to make it happen.

And to tell you the truth, I suspect it's inevitable now.

QuoteIt's a tough call either way though. Those connections are still there, even if distant, and the thought of letting them go to start from scratch somewhere else... that's scary. But then, to my mind people who go through transition, against all the odds. If anybody has the strength to do this, it's us. Ultimately it really does become a value call - what do you value more

Exactly. I mean wow, imagine a life where *everyone* you encounter only knows and sees Simone, a woman. Not "So-and-so who goes by the name Simone now." Just... Simone. EVEN IF someone new knows of your transition, they'll just consider it an interesting tidbit about your past - it won't ruin their perception of you as Simone and only that.

No worries about someone "slipping" and outing you when out to dinner. No hoping in vain for people to forget the ghost of HIM and see YOU. A chance to start over, properly, and build a history as Simone... without the weight of HIM dragging against that every second of the day.

~Kate~

Quote
Exactly. I mean wow, imagine a life where *everyone* you encounter only knows and sees Simone, a woman. Not "So-and-so who goes by the name Simone now." Just... Simone. EVEN IF someone new knows of your transition, they'll just consider it an interesting tidbit about your past - it won't ruin their perception of you as Simone and only that.

No worries about someone "slipping" and outing you when out to dinner. No hoping in vain for people to forget the ghost of HIM and see YOU. A chance to start over, properly, and build a history as Simone... without the weight of HIM dragging against that every second of the day.

Sounds like heaven to me. Yes there would be some pain cutting the ties but there are so many advantages that I see. Maybe I'm
being selfish, but I wonder sometimes who would really miss me. For me I think a lot of it boils down to "what do others think of me"
and I  have a hard time dealing with other peoples expectations of what and who I am and I always have.

I can see that being so much worse as I transition. It also depends a lot on how many ties you have to cut. In your case Kate
if it's only the job that's a problem then I would not base a life decision on a job, no matter how good it is or how long you
have been there. You will be able to find another job but you only get one life. Of course I'm putting my life in place of yours, I
don't know your situation, only mine, but for me it sounds great. I hope it works for you if that is what you decide since
I'm kinda following in your footsteps at this point. LOL, your the beta test :)

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 26, 2008, 11:12:22 AM
...but I wonder sometimes who would really miss me.

hehe...

Not all that many, actually. My mom and dad ... and possibly, maybe my brother, if he doesn't fall in with the Rhema Church crowd again.

My mom and dad I'd keep in my life, but the rest ... I suppose a lot depends on the responses to my letter. It's being delayed at the moment so my mom and dad can speak to my gran this weekend, but on Sunday the bombshell drops. We'll see how it goes.

in my situation, i had no issues with my friends and as for family a lot of them cut me out of their lives. Job wise, I was working retail and I wasn't working when I went on HRT and started FT. I then got a job a couple of weeks after going FT and I didn't have too many issues from my employer. Since then I've had a couple of other jobs.

--natalie

"Do you have to cut ties to your family/friends/job to fully transition?"
Nope.  ;)

-Sara

It depends on the peeps around you and how you want your life to be. Some peeps will be supportive and will transition with you.. Others wont be as good about it and will believe that you'll always be the sex your were born and not what you really are.  I didn't cut my liaisons with my family because I'm the only child.  But I'm stealth to the rest of the world.

Quote from: Sarah on March 26, 2008, 09:38:35 PM
"Do you have to cut ties to your family/friends/job to fully transition?"
Nope.  ;)

-Sara

It takes longer and you have to decide whether it's worth the effort. For me it was. There are still screwups, but they're much fewer and far between than before and I've known these people all my life.

Dennis

If a person has the courage to go through this, then IMHO, they have the right to do as they please with their own lives.  Having said that, I did cut ties with my previous life (moved, changed jobs, left my so called "friends" behind, plunged into the unknown as Kate says) except my family.  Like I said on a different thread, after a while, the constant reminder of *that other person* becomes extremely offensive, and personally I wasn't willing to put up with that kind of disrespect.

If my family hadn't gotten their act together in regards to what I wanted to be called, I would have cut them out my life as well honestly.

I mean, giving people enough time to adjust is an excellent idea but when "that time" becomes never-ending even after you don't look male anymore/have transitioned for years, then there is a problem and drastic measures must be taken.

tink :icon_chick:

Is it even truly possible to live in "stealth" forever? Or even without constantly worrying about who might find out somehow?

It just seems like even if I packed up and moved to Elsewhere, sooner or later my past would SOMEHOW leak out. A resume check, a phone call, a male attribute showing, I dunno. Something.

And once one person knows, that's it. The pool is contaminated. It's just matter of time before it spreads to others, and they tell, and they tell... and suddenly I'm back in the same environment again where Everyone Knows.

I just don't see ever escaping this entirely. Maybe the "escape" I/we want so badly needs to happen in our heads, not our environment?

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on March 28, 2008, 07:07:18 PM
Is it even truly possible to live in "stealth" forever? Or even without constantly worrying about who might find out somehow?

It just seems like even if I packed up and moved to Elsewhere, sooner or later my past would SOMEHOW leak out. A resume check, a phone call, a male attribute showing, I dunno. Something.

And once one person knows, that's it. The pool is contaminated. It's just matter of time before it spreads to others, and they tell, and they tell... and suddenly I'm back in the same environment again where Everyone Knows.

I just don't see ever escaping this entirely. Maybe the "escape" I/we want so badly needs to happen in our heads, not our environment?
~Kate~

I don't think anyone can truly escape there past, and that can be any kind of past, not necessarily related to being trans.  I agree, its what is going on in ones head that sets you free.  And I also cling to the belief that eventually people will not care less about who you were before, its a non-issue.  :)

Quote from: buttercup on March 28, 2008, 07:14:07 PM

Quote from: Kate on March 28, 2008, 07:07:18 PM
Is it even truly possible to live in "stealth" forever? Or even without constantly worrying about who might find out somehow?


And once one person knows, that's it. The pool is contaminated. It's just matter of time before it spreads to others, and they tell, and they tell... and suddenly I'm back in the same environment again where Everyone Knows.

I just don't see ever escaping this entirely. Maybe the "escape" I/we want so badly needs to happen in our heads, not our environment?

I don't think anyone can truly escape there past, and that can be any kind of past, not necessarily related to being trans.  I agree, its what is going on in ones head that sets you free.  And I also cling to the belief that eventually people will not care less about who you were before, its a non-issue.  :)

I think that most people, even those who 'know' don't truly 'know' provided they didn't know you before. For that, there is what Tink suggested -- radical surgery.

When people gender you, it's done. You're gendered. They will try to find stuff that might give them some idea of what you looked like before, but, they tend to search in vain.

Just like the thought that you are constantly being read, their searches end in the dead-ends of their own mind and their own sense of your gender.

I know this occurs. I've watched it.

For instance, my practice supervisor 'knows' about me. Yet, she never knew me in any shape or any way except as Nichole. Though she knows she relates to me as she relates to the other female interns. (How do I know, some of you might ask. Talk to someone who has lived their lives female or male for a few or many years and see how we know. It's something you 'get.' Something you simply come to know through experience and repetition.)

Oddly enough, cissexuals are as chained by their gendering of us as we are by our gendering of ourselves. There are ways that one of us can come to that place where even in all honesty our history is male or female, depending on whether we are FTM or MTF.

I'm unsure that most cissexuals can do that. Why? They don't, at least haven't, ever had to or contemplate how one, or why one, might do that.

Complexity R Us.

Nichole

Quote from: Tink on March 28, 2008, 09:33:01 PM
... people would need to be REALLY obsessed with you to do all that searching based on an assumption, no?

yes!!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

In my life there are people that KNOW about my past.  My therapist, my gynecologist, the nurses that helped me during a migraine attack two months ago, etc.  I'm aware that I can't erase my past entirely, but in my case I have found a comfort zone where I can live at peace with myself and those I love without the constant reminder that I wasn't born female.

As far as strangers are concerned, perhaps there are a few that "suspect", but as Nichole pointed out, suspicion is NOT knowing.  They can search all they want, undress me if they have to, check my legal documentation, etc, but they won't find a thing.  And besides, people would need to be REALLY obsessed with you to do all that searching based on an assumption, no?

tink :icon_chick:

Posted on: March 28, 2008, 09:37:35 PM

---

I don't know what I did.  I tried to modify my post (to correct a spelling error) and reposted it instead.

Duh!  :P

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on March 28, 2008, 10:56:54 PM
i dont see how i'm gonna make it.  i really dont.

By understanding what you know in-court: that Atticus Finch was a fictional character and that sometimes the best you will be able to do is to do your best and not expect an acquittal from an all-white jury in Mississippi in the 1930s.

She hurts and she wants everyone to see what she sees, Ash. Her husband, a male. The world doesn't cooperate and she's having a very difficult time with that. This is where you defocus on you and try to get into her feelings.

Let's see, on a guess I'd imagine: betrayal, horror, depression, frustration, anger. She married a husband. She doesn't want a wife and she wants you 'to come to your senses' and for things to be what she thought they were. She wants to change you, just not in the way you wish to change.

You'll make it. Your marriage may well not.

Damn, that isn't meant to be harsh. Sorry if it is.

Hugs,

Nichole

i dont think so... transition doesnt require stealth and total cutoff...
if my family accepted me, id be happy, thier my family, regardless of my gender. thats important to me.
as for work? meh, i guess not. if people accept you, then theres no need is there?
R >:D

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on March 29, 2008, 11:27:37 AM

Quote from: Nichole on March 29, 2008, 08:30:06 AM

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on March 28, 2008, 10:56:54 PM
i dont see how i'm gonna make it.  i really dont.

By understanding what you know in-court: that Atticus Finch was a fictional character and that sometimes the best you will be able to do is to do your best and not expect an acquittal from an all-white jury in Mississippi in the 1930s.

She hurts and she wants everyone to see what she sees, Ash. Her husband, a male. The world doesn't cooperate and she's having a very difficult time with that. This is where you defocus on you and try to get into her feelings.

Let's see, on a guess I'd imagine: betrayal, horror, depression, frustration, anger. She married a husband. She doesn't want a wife and she wants you 'to come to your senses' and for things to be what she thought they were. She wants to change you, just not in the way you wish to change.

You'll make it. Your marriage may well not.

Damn, that isn't meant to be harsh. Sorry if it is.

Hugs,

Nichole

no, its not harsh.  the fact that someone else sees me as i really am is like the toll of doom for her.....a realization of her greatest fear.....that i'm a girl and it isnt a private thing anymore....especially when during our argument, i finally exploded with "do you think this is the FIRST time?  it happens ALL THE TIME."  it didnt help, i know, and she said she didnt believe me.

when she lets herself be rational, she really does understand gid and the struggles i have....but she focuses so much on her own pain and refuses to get counseling.....she told me to get it, because maybe a counselor can tell me what i need to do to be me....meaning that she wants me to be the one to say our marriage is over.....my therapist says that she refuses to take responsibility for her own life.....which i think there is some truth to.

am i ending a sentence with a preposition?  damn.

Honey, you know, I hope, that I care for you. But I find your follow-up so very ironic. It sounds like me a few years ago!!  :laugh: That should warn you that you are doing something mistakenly here!!  :laugh: Don't do as I do, do as I say!!!  :laugh: :laugh:

You are both doing the exact same thing according to this last post. You each wants heard and each of you want 'heard' so well that the other gives up their opposition or their intention to the other's pov. *sigh* I remember this. All too well.

So each of you wants the other to see a therapist? I'd say you both have good sense in that regard. It may not save the marriage, but it may well save each of you a whole lot of pain and rancor.

She seems to think that a 'rational' therapist will agree with her; yet, she also is probably afraid that that will not be the case as well so she refuses to go.

And she doesn't believe others see you as female because she doesn't herself. That can be very problematic, hon. Again, I recall how astounded my ex was that her friends who I knew and who knew me didn't recognize me after a few months HRT. That was HUGE.

We split. It isn't required that that occur, but from just what you post it does sound like you guys are heading that direction.

Honestly, Ash, I feel for her. I feel for any woman who goes through the transition of who she thought was her husband or for any man who goes through the transition of who he thought was his wife. So many dreams, hopes, expectations get locked up in our commitment relationships I am actually surprised that any of them ever work out to the good. Especially in this age of longer lives and less rigid social constructions. Not so long ago any of us would be fortunate to have lived past 40!

She recalls promises and dreams. You have your own investments in those. Family counseling may help, but I'd suggest individual for you both first. Finally, I expect it will all hang on what both of you are willing to accept from the other. As things stand now, it doesn't sound like there is much overlapping ground.

HUGS, and all the best for you both.

N~

For me I have little respect for my family.  I do not buy, they are my family no matter what.  They were by far the least understanding and most cruel.  But I had a pretty negative history to begin with.  We cut each other off, I saw them as worthless subhuman bigots and told them so.  Family is pretty useless when it gets down to it.  To say family is family, would mean to take harmful and abusive language, and bigotry.  When it gets down to it blood is pretty meaningless if they do not respect your decisions.   Family is like any other relationship, if they do not demonstrate tolerance, understanding, and support, they do not deserve to be talked to and should be cut off immediately.  They are no different then friends, if anything they have a much shorter leash.  One chooses friends, no choice is involved with family.  You can be stuck with people who in many cases are diametric opposites in every respect.  My family for example is conservative, idiotic and bigoted.  Where I am liberal, only intolerant of those who are intolerant on the basis of race, gender, gender identity, and sexual orientation, and considerably more intelligent then every one of my family members.  They are not worth talking to, and them being family matters very little to me.

Friends.  Its not so much I lost them, but I grew apart from men in my life.  But this was the effect of me moving to transition.  The women I still talk to.  Suddenly I became another girlfriend. 

Work...well I am still working at the workplace I transitioned at.  I have some great co-workers.  I mean I may leave one day, but it will be reasons outside of transition.

I think over time, all things do fade.  But I think that is less an effect of transition and more of an effect of life.  To me.  I lost my family.
Friends change.  One gets new jobs. 
One does not have to abandon everything to fully transition, but when one fully transition everything does change, and some things in life just fade or morph into something else.

With regards to pronouns, I never hear sir from those I know. 


Additionally with regards to friends and how supportive they are.  Most of my friends were third wave (inclusive) feminists, open minded lesbians, female musicians and bi women.  Basically speaking the type of people who respect trans womens female identities and get it.

If you are losing friends as a result of transition, it does speak quite a bit about how you chose friends before hand.  Those of us who did not run toward masculinity and were more inbetween with regards to our gender and were in largely younger queer circles have fewer problems. Note this is not always meaning gay, gay men can be very transphobic, the straight identified transwomen who were in the gay community at one point have very different perspectives of the queer community as those who transitioned from genderqueer or androgyne, and were sometimes closer to alternative queer culture where people identify as queer rather then gay.  This is kind of complex to explain even to people who spent their time in segments of the queer community, the gay male community is only representing one segment of the larger queer community, and there are divisions within the community.  Thats why there are women like me who never quite leave the queer community and the constructs of our circle of friends seem to change very little.  With me my friends went from being queer women before to queer women afterwards. 

If you don't cut your family ties, your family will cut them for you.  Been there.  Learned that.

You might do OK on your job.  That largely depends on how much they want you to stay, what laws and regulations apply to transsexual persons who transition on the job, and your co-workers.

Friends, OK, toss a coin.  I have one friend of 51 years and others who don't want to know me.

I have a pretty hard shell and a wonderful soulmate and lifepartner, Cindy.  She is all that I need or want.  Pits on everyone else who used to be family or friends.

Wing Walker

Once you've taken care of the big stuff documentation wise and body wise,
moved and let your credit history espunge itself (which can take time),
well unless somebody has lots of time on their hands, or hires an investigator,
how would they know? If someone's that obsessed, you should probably
tell the police that someone's stalking you... ;)

As for family, mine is just fine with it after a bumpy few initial months.

Friends, I've kept them all.

I think it has to do with how you present yourself.

Real friends, if they see that this is the answer to the riddle
that you were all these years, they are fine with it.
Others... Who cares really.

when i cane out, i actually MADE more friends.... i didnt loose one of the friends i told.... ive gotten closer too them, and our friendship is more open and honest and true now.... (aside from my parents)


Its ironic, my mother told me that if i transitioned, id live a life of lonelyness, being hated, socially rejected, id never get a job, no family, no love, and id be bullied and mocked at every corner....

seems thats just by them.
R >:D

Quote from: Tanya1 on March 25, 2008, 03:25:01 PM

Quote from: Kate on March 25, 2008, 01:40:01 PM



I have a best friend, but he's kinda fallen away since I transitioned. He accepts me just fine, but I guess Be Careful What You Wish For, as now that we don't do male sorta things (cars, Xbox, computers), he seems less and less interested. I'm not the same person he became friends with. When we hang out together now, it looks like we're on a date... which is seriously weird, lol.


~Kate~

LOL- I can relate too with this. While I'm not accepted as "one of the girls" in society since I haven't even come out. I share absouletly nothing in common guys. Even though I may look like one of the guys I'm not one of them. Like there's nothing really to talk about with guys- a lot of guys do however see me as a guy but don't relate or associate with- They'll say "wats up" etc etc but that's all it really goes- It NEVER goes to the personal aspect of a conversation that guys have with each other.- Like some guys meet me for the first time. And you know how people first say hi to each other and joke around to get to be friend and know each other. it never goes past that..lol...

I think the BIG part of people seeing me as a guy still is my appearance. It's just stereotyping that people are inclined to do by human nature. It's just how MOST people's brains work. For example- many people have a tendency to think I'm some "tough, rude, obnixous, cocky" guy just based on appearance. What's funny is that I'm a very quiet kind of person- and people start taking me as rude when I don't even intend to be.- people have a VERY bad habit of judging others based on clothes, hair and physical appearance. Don't want to get too long here but I'm reading a book called Law of Success which is a physcology type book that teaches you how to build a winning personality to achieve success. One of the biggest problems is judging others on first appearances. It said that you have to observe people closely in HOW they react when they are angry, in love, jealous, fearful, when writing, when eating, when money is involved, when in loss.

But you see, Now I realize that LOOKING like a woman or man WILL not make you fit in that gender. Rather your personality, how you are in the INSIDE, how well you relate to that gender and if your BRAIN is wired to behave like that gender is the important piece! For example. You could look like a man when you really feel like a woman. Sure others would treat you like a man based on your appearance. BUt once they really get to know you deep inside- you won't recieve the same treatment. Maybe they won't treat you as a woman but they sure won't treat you like man much.

Hormones, surgery etc can only do so much- it's your BRAIN and THOUGHTS that make you, YOU!- Sure, HRT makes brain changes happen BUT it was your brain unaltered that decided to embark on Hormones.

As for Male friends, Kate, I know guys casually here and their type of thing but I don't have anything to do with them.
As for girls- I can relate to them better but I'm not friends with them either.

As for Relatives and Family. Well my cousins, uncles and aunts aren't too close nor too distant. Were sort of like close friends but also family. You can say we are close since I maybe be moving in with them but I don't do "male things" with guys in my family.

I don't have interests in video games, sports much etc- but that is just a stereotype. Girls can like video games and still relate better with girls.

Okay this is my last comment and then I'll shutup lol, I think transgenders are generally (not specifically) better at understanding human behavior and how socialization works. While others don't put much though into it- they just dive in.- THAT'S A BENEFIT OF BEING TS!

I get this; kind of the same deal I have at the moment. I'm a guy, but share nothing with the guys that I know.

How you look, changes how people act, if you dress well, take care of yourself,
your treated very differently than if you spend the night on a bender and
show up somewhere looking disheveled in jeans. You may be the same person,
but people have a whole slew of tags they've put on you just because of your looks.
If you then go on to speak with an Oxford accent on the merits of unpasteurized
cheese and fine point of polo, they may reverse somewhat their assessment, but
only to a point.

The same thing with gender, if someone sees you as a girl, it changes the way they
act with you, that happens with a women or a man.

That's what Kate as seen with her male friend, he sees a woman and there is
an powerfull social and genetic actions linked to this. Its unconscious an
will make his friend's action quite different no matter how long they've been together.
The only way the actions will not be different is if he would still see her as a man,
which I think is not the case.