Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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"Talk show host David Letterman called Thomas Beatie, the trans man who is 5 month pregnant, an "androgynous freak show" during his CBS Late Night show Tuesday night.

On every show, Letterman presents a Top 10 list about some current affair and last night it was "10 messages left on Thomas Beatie's answering machine." (See clip below.)

Rounding out the Top 10 list was: "Michael Jackson here ... We just wanted to reach out to another 'androgynous freak show.'"

Shakesville suggests people contact CBS (http://www.cbs.com/info/user_services/fb_global_form.shtml) and let them know you aren't laughing:"

=====

I have contacted CBS. 
this is what I said:

Quote"Talk show host David Letterman called Thomas Beatie, the trans man who is 5 month pregnant, an "androgynous freak show" during his CBS Late Night show Tuesday night."

I find this hateful and sickening.

To atone for this bigoted remark which openly and cruelly mocks 600,000 transgender Americans, and the family members and friends who support them, Mr. Letterman should invite Mr. Beatie onto the show, apologise to him and ask forgiveness from him and from transgendered Americans.

Nice response, Karen.

   I sent this one.  It doesn't have the bite you have, though.

QuoteHi,

   I happen to be transgendered, but even if I weren't, I don't think I appreciate Letterman using the word Freak in reference to a person who may be different.

   Being transgendered is different for each of us who are born this way.  The person Letterman mocked is a MAN who just happens to have a condition that allowed him to become pregnant. I guess that might be funny to people in general because the general population is uneducated in gender concepts to begin with.  For those of us who live with gender issues and have had to overcome the difficulties thrust upon us by this culture we live in, it is not so funny.

   I understand humor and jokes, but the world is mean enough without a person who has a big audience furthering stereotypes and encouraging those bigots out there who seek confirmation that their prejudices are acceptable.

 
Please have a nice day.

Rebecca

I signed with my femme de plume.

I will probably get a lot of flack from this but here it goes. I'm really offended by Mr. Beattie as he never changed his gender. He may be a guy but he still has his ovaries and the womb to grow a child. This is all natural and he should by all means try to have a child if that is what he wants. This is not unusual in the world. To go to the media and say that he is the first man to bore a child is rediculous. I don't like the comments that were made and they shouldn't stoop so low but should be telling the truth here. How many of us transwomen have sired children. I know there are a lot of us out there. When a woman who is born with male genitalia give birth to a child then I will be amazed and happy. When a man who is born with female genitalia and sires a child I will be equally amazed and in both cases, I'm sure it will happen in the future.
Sheila

Quote from: Sheila on April 03, 2008, 01:02:11 PM
I will probably get a lot of flack from this but here it goes. I'm really offended by Mr. Beattie as he never changed his gender. He may be a guy but he still has his ovaries and the womb to grow a child.

Maybe just a little flack, lol.  ;D

Why are you offended by him? I don't want a hysterectomy or the lower surgery either. I just don't want it but there are countless transmen who don't get the lower surgery because results are not good. Also in countries without nationalized healthcare, such as the US, the lower surgery for men is too expensive for most people. We're talking 50-100 grand with multi-stage surgery and months in between to recoop. Also, hystos are very expensive and not covered for transmen. So, it's different for us.

And the need for a biological child is strong in some, apparently strong enough for some men to bear a child if they have the equipment anyhow.

Don't know Mr. Beattie's story, really so no idea what compelled him to go public with this, if that is in fact the case.

People still watch David Letterman?

:P

I must say I'm decidedly ambivalent to this topic, and the level of sensationalism just drives me even more towards indifference.

I quit watching letterman a hundred years ago.

I am ignoring the media stuff too, but I can't turn down an opportunity to chide some beefhead who has everything he ever wanted for picking on someone for being born differently.

Well, in the recent interview with Oprah, he says that most people in the community have rejected him and that those who seemed to be empathetic with his pregnancy tried to convice him not to go public, making comments such as  "The world is not ready for something like this", but as he says, the desire to bear a child is not male or female but human, and I agree.

tink :icon_chick:

I sent one. Nothing special, but I sent one.

I forgot.  I did send a complaint email as well.  I don't like four-eye morons anyway, and I admit publicly that I have never liked his show.  I'd rather watch Leno.   :P

tink :icon_chick:

I don't slight the man who wants to have a child. That is not what makes this so offensive. He is trying to say that he is a man and he is pregnant. I guess this statement is true but the facts are, he still has female organs and he can conceive just like any other female. I know that most "transmen" can't have the surgery and I understand that. That wasn't my point. If a "transwoman" didn't want to do anything to their fertility, would that be that a woman can sire children too. It has been done all ready. This is not news. This is tabloid fodder. I put the transmen and transwoman in quotes as I really don't like those terms as I think of them as men and women.

Hi Sheila,

   I understand what you're saying.  I thought I understood it the first time, but I think you explain it better the 2nd time.  I don't think it should be sensationalized either.  I'll bet it's happened in the past but just didn't catch the public eye like it has now.

   In a way, it may bring a greater understanding to the genpop (general population) in that they will learn aspects of the Trans condition that they might not otherwise have gotten for years to come.

   I'm certainly not suggesting that it will open the eyes of everyone and all that, but a better informed public will help in the long run.

   Let's face it, the one experience we can all agree upon is that once something is out there, it's out there forever.  Maybe this situation is a form of outing for us all as a group in the way that each of us has to go through our individual coming out process.


Rebis

Quote from: Kaelin on April 03, 2008, 05:26:42 PM
People still watch David Letterman?

:P

I must say I'm decidedly ambivalent to this topic, and the level of sensationalism just drives me even more towards indifference.

I honestly don't think him, Conan, and Leno are funny in the least. They're just narcissistic people with no sense of humor in the least who have a fan following other than people up late at night to watch porn or adult swim. I find the latter more respectable.
The only thing thats funny on his show is his face. That joke gets awfully old though.

The only good thing thats appeared on their shows is Queens of the Stone Age and the White Stripes. They should be having those 3 as guests, not the other way around.

I think the person WAS looking for attention.

This thing HAS happened before, many times. (I've heard of it).

So, I think that Thomas is an attention seeking exhibitionist.

I don't think it was for enlightenment that he did it.
I'm pretty cynical about these things I admit.

Quote from: Keira on April 04, 2008, 12:25:27 AM

I think the person WAS looking for attention.

This thing HAS happened before, many times. (I've heard of it).

So, I think that Thomas is an attention seeking exhibitionist.

That hits the point well Kiera!

However I did write a complaint nothing as sophisticated as most of yours though..  ;)

Quote from: Sheila on April 03, 2008, 08:59:38 PM
I don't slight the man who wants to have a child. That is not what makes this so offensive. He is trying to say that he is a man and he is pregnant. I guess this statement is true but the facts are, he still has female organs and he can conceive just like any other female. I know that most "transmen" can't have the surgery and I understand that. That wasn't my point. If a "transwoman" didn't want to do anything to their fertility, would that be that a woman can sire children too. It has been done all ready. This is not news. This is tabloid fodder. I put the transmen and transwoman in quotes as I really don't like those terms as I think of them as men and women.

I fail to understand what does make it offensive.

And in response to some other posters, going to the media is not always a volentary thing, the media is an important tool to many who are facing discrimmination for some reason. Additionally, you have to consider that If he had not gone to the media (I don't know that he initiated it), would the media not have gone to him, and portrayed him, and transgendered people in a more negative light. The reason why he would appear on a show like Oprah would be to inform the public first hand, before they read the tabloids which would have portrayed him more negatively, while being in an environment (oprah's show) that will be generally nonabusive (Oprah tends to respect her guests).

Appearing in the media and on oprahs show and explaining things in a clear manner is far better than appearing on jerry springer and throwing chairs, for example.

I don't see what's wrong with transmen having babies if they want them, to me this is equivalant to how some MTF's decide to bank some or their sperm for later use.

I also don't see what's wrong with going to the media, we don't know him and don't know his reasons, and so I think it is a poor decision to judge others without the inside information, especially others in our own community. Exhibitionist? Come on,...

Posted on: April 04, 2008, 06:59:00 AM

---

Just wrote CBS a letter, it was mostly sarcastic and humorous. Will give a CSR a good laugh.

The way it came "out"
makes it obvious the media didn't go after this man.
It seems to have been designed for publicity, and it worked.
So, I'm not going to removed the tag of exhibitionist.

I'm not saying that person should hide, but
it would have been not too hard to keep it low key.

Later, if he complains he's being hounded by foundies or crackpots,
he won't have a foot to stand on, just like Britney complaining
she's being pursued by paparazi when they practically get
her itinerary in advance... How often do you hear of

Appearing in the media and on oprahs show and explaining things in a clear manner is far better than appearing on jerry springer and throwing chairs, for example

Not really, either way your trading your dignity for coverage.  One might seem more classy, but its not true - its infotainment either way.


Andy Warhaol -- "In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes. ..."  1968 and getting truer all the time.

Quote from: tekla on April 04, 2008, 01:20:09 PM
Appearing in the media and on oprahs show and explaining things in a clear manner is far better than appearing on jerry springer and throwing chairs, for example

Not really, either way your trading your dignity for coverage.  One might seem more classy, but its not true - its infotainment either way.


Andy Warhaol -- "In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes. ..."  1968 and getting truer all the time.

did he ever specify if it would be for the same 15 minutes?      :)

How many times did Judy Garland have to sing Over the Rainbow?  Its like the same 15 minutes over and over again. 

In Bart Gets Famous" (twelfth episode of The Simpsons fifth season) Bart gets famous for saying a catchphrase "Don't blame me, I didn't do it" and he goes on TV and all they want is for him to "say the phrase."  Like the band with the one super huge hit song - James Blunt comes to mind - just do the song and get offstage.

as i recall letterman had a transgender crew member.  I am not sure what happened to her.

a sound board operator who returned from vacation starting  (unannounced??) RLT.  5 or 6 years ago??

He mentioned the  situation on air.  not as a joke but just as a lack of understanding.

I don't think the crew member had for warned upper management or the union from the sound of it.



Posted on: April 04, 2008, 12:00:46 PM

---

I should say that you could tell that he had great respect for this person, but was basically clueless about her decision.

Quote from: Keira on April 04, 2008, 01:14:35 PM

The way it came "out"
makes it obvious the media didn't go after this man.
It seems to have been designed for publicity, and it worked.
So, I'm not going to removed the tag of exhibitionist.

I'm not saying that person should hide, but
it would have been not too hard to keep it low key.

Later, if he complains he's being hounded by foundies or crackpots,
he won't have a foot to stand on, just like Britney complaining
she's being pursued by paparazi when they practically get
her itinerary in advance... How often do you hear of

People who put themselves in the public eye aren't to blame for the 'fundies and crackpots' hounding them.  Yes, he should be aware that some hounding may well occur but that doesnt mean it's his fault!  He still has the right to complain about it.  (It's a bit different for somebody like Britney whose career relies on the gutter media, for her it's a rather two edged sword). How far have trans rights been improved by people willing to put themselves in harms way in the past?  Until there is proof that his reasons were 100% self serving exhibitionism, I applaud his courage.

People who put themselves in the public eye aren't to blame for the 'fundies and crackpots' hounding them.

No way, they get whatever comes next, and everyone should be aware of the cost of publicity.  When you make the private public, then all bets are off.

Quote from: tekla on April 06, 2008, 06:14:02 PM
People who put themselves in the public eye aren't to blame for the 'fundies and crackpots' hounding them.

No way, they get whatever comes next, and everyone should be aware of the cost of publicity.  When you make the private public, then all bets are off.

I agree if they do it willingly.

People need to realize there are far more crackpots out there than they think and it takes very little to stir them up.

I doubt that there are more, its just that they used to meet in thier mom's basement or trailer parks, now they have web sites and post on web forums.  So its not that there are more, its that they are more out there.

Quote from: tekla on April 04, 2008, 01:20:09 PM
Appearing in the media and on oprahs show and explaining things in a clear manner is far better than appearing on jerry springer and throwing chairs, for example

Not really, either way your trading your dignity for coverage.  One might seem more classy, but its not true - its infotainment either way.


Andy Warhaol -- "In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes. ..."  1968 and getting truer all the time.

"Doncha think there may have been some dough-re-me that changed hands?  I bet the Beatties have a mortgage to pay and most definately, baby needs new shoes!", said Claire as she snapped her gum.   :icon_chick:





"You're an ->-bleeped-<-"  - Cher, May 22, 1987 to Dave on The David Letterman Show

Quote from: tekla on April 06, 2008, 06:54:34 PM
I doubt that there are more, its just that they used to meet in thier mom's basement or trailer parks, now they have web sites and post on web forums.  So its not that there are more, its that they are more out there.

I meant that I don't think most people realize how many are out there.

You are correct though the web though.

Quote from: Sheila on April 03, 2008, 01:02:11 PM
I will probably get a lot of flack from this but here it goes. I'm really offended by Mr. Beattie as he never changed his gender. He may be a guy but he still has his ovaries and the womb to grow a child. This is all natural and he should by all means try to have a child if that is what he wants. This is not unusual in the world. To go to the media and say that he is the first man to bore a child is rediculous. I don't like the comments that were made and they shouldn't stoop so low but should be telling the truth here. How many of us transwomen have sired children. I know there are a lot of us out there. When a woman who is born with male genitalia give birth to a child then I will be amazed and happy. When a man who is born with female genitalia and sires a child I will be equally amazed and in both cases, I'm sure it will happen in the future.
Sheila

i like what you're saying here, Sheila. this fella is not helping the perception of trans folk at all.
but i also like Rebecca's remarks, because Letterman is such an arrogant, cruel, ass anyway, and has been for years.

-Ellie

Quote from: Claire de Lune on April 06, 2008, 07:35:31 PM
"Doncha think there may have been some dough-re-me that changed hands?  I bet the Beatties have a mortgage to pay and most definately, baby needs new shoes!", said Claire as she snapped her gum.   :icon_chick:

Everyone on those shows are compensated (guests and experts alike), some are paid more than others. Someone telling their story tends to get more but many will do these shows for free just to be on tv.

The Beatties were WELL paid by People magazine, and I am sure Oprah paid well too. I am sure they will be doing the whole talk show circuit before long. He also happened to have a book in the works before, so expect a second. How much did they get? I have no idea on exact figures, but let's just say they will not need to work for at least a few years.

Letterman is such an arrogant, cruel, ass anyway, and has been for years

Its pretty much his job description.  And he is good at it.  You have not arrived in some sense untill Dave makes fun of you.

He makes something about everyone, but its certainly not fun

I'd be laughing if it really were...

His show is lame.

When the day comes that I have GRS I fully intend to put some sperm on ice.  I like girls (and boys) and if I fall in love with one that wants to have child with me, I want to be able to make it so.  The child will have 2 biological mothers.  Cool.   :icon_female:

Okay.  I am not going to make a joke concerning ice cream based on Claire's post.

  I'll just say that Letterman stinks.   He is really not funny.  I prefer Steve Allen.  You could see that he liked people.

Good luck. :)

I prefer Steve Allen.  You could see that he liked people.

I think that Steve Allen was a man of his times, and he lived in an age where people did like each other.  Dave, is perfect for a time that has a lot less respect.  It's not him, he is simply reflecting the culture. 

Quote from: Claire de Lune on April 06, 2008, 08:48:56 PM
I want to be able to make it so.

Make it so, Number One. I now order you to go make a Number Two.

I'm going to tell you said that, Ell.     :o

Quote from: Rebis on April 06, 2008, 10:05:18 PM

I'm going to tell you said that, Ell.     :o

sorry! it's an old Beavis & Butthead joke.

I know.  I was just playing.  Like I was going to rat you out for potty humor.

I'm so glad someone caught that!   :D

Quote from: ell on April 06, 2008, 10:08:15 PM

Quote from: Rebis on April 06, 2008, 10:05:18 PM
I'm going to tell you said that, Ell.     :o

sorry! it's an old Beavis & Butthead joke.

Didn't have to tell.  I found it on my own.  Naughty girl!  *snicker*

Quote from: ell on April 06, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

i like what you're saying here, Sheila. this fella is not helping the perception of trans folk at all.
but i also like Rebecca's remarks, because Letterman is such an arrogant, cruel, ass anyway, and has been for years.

-Ellie

I disagree that he isn't helping the perception of trans folk.  The current general perception of trans folk gives a very narrow view of what it is to be trans, that doesn't represent how a lot of trans people feel.  I am hoping this is the beginnings of a change in how trans people are portrayed in the media.

Quote from: Rebis on April 06, 2008, 10:09:23 PM

I know.  I was just playing.  Like I was going to rat you out for potty humor.

>:(

Posted on: April 07, 2008, 09:28:36 AM

---

Quote from: Claire de Lune on April 07, 2008, 12:12:31 AM
I'm so glad someone caught that!   :D

:)

Posted on: April 07, 2008, 09:30:35 AM

---

Quote from: Lisbeth on April 07, 2008, 08:42:05 AM

Quote from: ell on April 06, 2008, 10:08:15 PM

Quote from: Rebis on April 06, 2008, 10:05:18 PM
I'm going to tell you said that, Ell.     :o

sorry! it's an old Beavis & Butthead joke.

Didn't have to tell.  I found it on my own.  Naughty girl!  *snicker*

:)

Quote from: deviousxen on April 03, 2008, 11:32:58 PM

I honestly don't think him, Conan, and Leno are funny in the least. They're just narcissistic people with no sense of humor in the least who have a fan following other than people up late at night to watch porn or adult swim. I find the latter more respectable.

LOL couldn't agree more. Besides, they don't even write their own stuff so whatever's funny about them comes from a no-name ghostwriter anyway.

no-name ghostwriter anyway

Not true, it comes from rather large writing staffs - as did Steve Allen's stuff, Johnny Carson's stuff - pretty much everyone's stuff.  Conan wrote some of the best episodes of the Simpson's before he got a show.

After all - the TV does have an 'off' button.  Really of all the drugs in the world, TV is the worst.

Quote from: tekla on April 07, 2008, 10:39:03 AM
no-name ghostwriter anyway

Not true, it comes from rather large writing staffs - as did Steve Allen's stuff, Johnny Carson's stuff - pretty much everyone's stuff.  Conan wrote some of the best episodes of the Simpson's before he got a show.

After all - the TV does have an 'off' button.  Really of all the drugs in the world, TV is the worst.

"large writing staffs" dilute author vision and reek of mass-production. If I liked David's or Jay's or Conan's particular brand of humor I'd prefer them to write their jokes themselves and not just act them in front of a camera. We know they can, right? Besides, just because everyone has done it it doesn't mean it's ok imho. Opinions and tastes may vary, though.

I don't watch much TV myself by the way, I prefer the internet.

Quote from: Andra on April 07, 2008, 09:06:52 AM

Quote from: ell on April 06, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

i like what you're saying here, Sheila. this fella is not helping the perception of trans folk at all.
but i also like Rebecca's remarks, because Letterman is such an arrogant, cruel, ass anyway, and has been for years.

-Ellie

I disagree that he isn't helping the perception of trans folk.  The current general perception of trans folk gives a very narrow view of what it is to be trans, that doesn't represent how a lot of trans people feel.  I am hoping this is the beginnings of a change in how trans people are portrayed in the media.

oh, well, certainly. you can't expect the media to do right by you if they can't even tell the truth about Iraq during wartime!

but, i humbly disagree with you, my dear. it's a miracle, i'm a pregnant man is just too much, a sorry debut for FTM's, much like the sorry debut the media gave MTF's.

-Ellie

Quote from: ell on April 07, 2008, 12:07:23 PM

but, i humbly disagree with you, my dear. it's a miracle, i'm a pregnant man is just too much, a sorry debut for FTM's, much like the sorry debut the media gave MTF's.

-Ellie

Not so bad for the less normative and/or non-binary trans people though.

Quote from: Andra on April 07, 2008, 12:24:24 PM

Quote from: ell on April 07, 2008, 12:07:23 PM

but, i humbly disagree with you, my dear. it's a miracle, i'm a pregnant man is just too much, a sorry debut for FTM's, much like the sorry debut the media gave MTF's.

-Ellie

Not so bad for the less normative and/or non-binary trans people though.

Hmm. how so?

Quote from: ell on April 07, 2008, 01:37:30 PM

Quote from: Andra on April 07, 2008, 12:24:24 PM

Quote from: ell on April 07, 2008, 12:07:23 PM

but, i humbly disagree with you, my dear. it's a miracle, i'm a pregnant man is just too much, a sorry debut for FTM's, much like the sorry debut the media gave MTF's.

-Ellie

Not so bad for the less normative and/or non-binary trans people though.

Hmm. how so?

They don't care to uphold that a self-identified man shouldn't have babies like more gender-normative transpeople.

Quote from: ell on April 07, 2008, 01:37:30 PM

Hmm. how so?

Because the more the media portray all trans people as fitting into a certain mold the harder it is for anybody who doesn't fit that mold to be taken seriously.  Publicity for his situation doesn't make people more likely to understand mine (as I'm not an FTM and dont want to give birth), but publicity for less normative trans people means people are less likely to think they can know everything about a specific transsexual/transgender person because they saw a documentary on the telly once.

I'm with Andra.


    I want to throw the mold down and smash it into one hundred billion pieces and then grind it into dust then fling it off into space.

    The more that the genpop understands we are NOT all the same, the better off we will be.

Quote from: tekla on April 07, 2008, 10:39:03 AM
After all - the TV does have an 'off' button.  Really of all the drugs in the world, TV is the worst.

Soma = sofa.

The creed I live with is simply as long as no one is harmed people can do what ever they want. No sense in trying to catalog and control people.

Quote from: Rebis on April 07, 2008, 02:51:14 PM

I'm with Andra.


    I want to throw the mold down and smash it into one hundred billion pieces and then grind it into dust then fling it off into space.

    The more that the genpop understands we are NOT all the same, the better off we will be.

Agreed. Seconded.

And when we're at it (not sarcastic... Lol) we should force the covert organizations of the governments highest points to book a show on Jerry Springer for an Extra Terrestrial Grey. That way, the dumb ones die of heart attacks and our gene pool can once again rid itself of trailer trash/rich suburb nonsense.

...

...
I CAN DREAM, CAN'T I? Its a comforting thought! These let me chuckle and fall asleep at night. Besides... It would only speed up the inevitable, when the same folk check gas cans for flooding with a cigarette lighter. ;D

Quote from: tekla on April 06, 2008, 06:14:02 PM
No way, they get whatever comes next, and everyone should be aware of the cost of publicity.  When you make the private public, then all bets are off.

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but this reads to me like anyone who "comes out" and then gets attacked (Matthew Shepard is one example) is only getting what they asked for.

Do I misunderstand you? "Coming out" is making the private public.

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on April 08, 2008, 03:38:21 PM

Quote from: tekla on April 06, 2008, 06:14:02 PM
No way, they get whatever comes next, and everyone should be aware of the cost of publicity.  When you make the private public, then all bets are off.

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but this reads to me like anyone who "comes out" and then gets attacked (Matthew Shepard is one example) is only getting what they asked for.

Do I misunderstand you? "Coming out" is making the private public.

no, Tekla meant becoming a "public figure", such as going on nationwide television. the process causes the person to surrender much of their right to privacy.

Quote from: ell on April 08, 2008, 03:49:38 PM

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on April 08, 2008, 03:38:21 PM

Quote from: tekla on April 06, 2008, 06:14:02 PM
No way, they get whatever comes next, and everyone should be aware of the cost of publicity.  When you make the private public, then all bets are off.

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but this reads to me like anyone who "comes out" and then gets attacked (Matthew Shepard is one example) is only getting what they asked for.

Do I misunderstand you? "Coming out" is making the private public.

no, Tekla meant becoming a "public figure", such as going on nationwide television. the process causes the person to surrender much of their right to privacy.

Oh, OK. Thanks for the clarification. I miss the obvious sometimes.

If your Ed, the guy down the street, and want to pay some hooker to have pornographic sex while you watch and pleasure yourself - it ain't my business.  If your Jimmy Swaggart, and your on TV, day after day, telling everyone their going to hell in a handbag for such things, and they should send you money and your doing it - that's front page news, just like you wanted all your pronouncements to be front page news. 

If your my neighbor, I have no right, or need, to see your tax returns, and find out where you're making all your money.  If your running for public office, I do.

The Mathew Shepard case was not about him coming out, it was a cold blooded, pre-meditated act.  Shepard did not 'come out' to these two, rather they posed as gay men hoping to find someone to attack and rob.