Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm trying to fully understand what happens to a relationship as
you transition.

Did your wife have trouble being with "another women" ?

If so, when did it start?

Did she complain about your dressing or makeup?

What were the first clues she was not comfortable?

Did she stop wanting to be intimate or did you?

Amanda

at first she was happy with it...
at first she encouraged it....
It was fun and exciting...
It was beyond amazing...
then she met someone else... I knew something was wrong, just not what...
Our love life dwindled... it took allot of effort to get things going...

Did your wife have trouble being intimate with you as a woman? 

Never had one.....and the question doesn't relate to me...

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 21, 2008, 11:49:29 PM
Did she stop wanting to be intimate or did you?

I never really dressed up before transitioning, so that wasn't a problem, but...

Before transitioning, she was attracted to me (for my being a guy), but the problem was *I* didn't want to be desired as a male, sooooooo... sex was rare, and usually ended with us being annoyed at one another. She wanted to be intimate, but I just couldn't find a way to resolve my own needs and desires with hers. We both wanted the same thing: to be desired as females by a male. We tried a few.... uhm... "workarounds," but we both just felt stupid doing that. It didn't change the facts of who we were.

Her attraction to me pretty much fell apart when I told her I was transitioning, and we both started realizing how pervasive the GID had been throughout our marriage, and especially what it had done to our attempts at intimacy. Somehow in her head it all "clicked," and she realized she'd been trying to have sex with a female all this time - not as an "idea," but as a reality. She felt foolish, retreated from me totally, and still resents me for not facing those facts sooner.

What surprised me is that even simple, platonic, physical *affection* is gone now. There's a line Jennifer Boylan wrote in her book, "She's Not There," where she describes her wife's reactions to her touch as, "endured, not enjoyed." That's exactly what became of us too. No more hugs when leaving for work, no more reassuring touches to the arm or stroking the hair. I make it a point to touch her those ways, but there's no reaction, no response. She sorta just waits for it to be over.

Be Care What You Wish For I guess, as we now just live as two (platonic) girlfriends who love and care for one another, sharing a life and home, but without intimacy or affection.

~Kate~

Quote from: Berliegh on April 22, 2008, 08:46:32 AM
Did your wife have trouble being intimate with you as a woman? 

Never had one.....and the question doesn't relate to me...

That being so, why bother to answer then?



Much the same as Lynn's experience. All excited about it at first, but about one year later she was against it and two months later had left the house, leaving me with the boys. That was actually pretty cool.

The older son lives with her and her boyfriend now. He has a NJ school to assist him academically and it was easier to keep him there than to set up the same thing in PA so he lives in NJ.

She did do my injections for the first nine months of those. We do much better seeing each other once a week briefly.

N~

Quoteat first she was happy with it...
at first she encouraged it....
It was fun and exciting...
It was beyond amazing...
then she met someone else... I knew something was wrong, just not what...
Our love life dwindled... it took allot of effort to get things going...

That sounded so promising until I got past the amazing... I'm so sorry Lynn :(.

QuoteHer attraction to me pretty much fell apart when I told her I was transitioning, and we both started realizing how pervasive the GID had been throughout our marriage, and especially what it had done to our attempts at intimacy.

I think I've just begun to realize how pervasive it's been for me too... of course like Wing Walker said, once you
point out those differences to your SO everything changes. I've been able to deal with intimacy using a very active
imagination so it's never been a big deal. But I recently read that a sexless marriage is one where the frequency
is less than once a month... I doubt on average we've ever been that active but it worked for both of us and
continues to.

QuoteMuch the same as Lynn's experience. All excited about it at first, but about one year later she was against it and two months later had left the house, leaving me with the boys. That was actually pretty cool.

Do you think the physical changes then are what really causes the problems? When she can finally see the female
face, the breasts the body?

Actually it does sound kinda cool to have young kids and be able to be the "mom"... that would be awesome in a
lot of ways.

Amanda

I told my wife before we married about my feelings.  At first she supported me and even helped.  As time went on and the children got older she started to object.

She has stated that she is not a lesbian and does not want a lesbian relationship.

Sarah L.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on April 22, 2008, 09:37:33 AM
I told my wife before we married about my feelings.  At first she supported me and even helped.  As time went on and the children got older she started to object.

She has stated that she is not a lesbian and does not want a lesbian relationship.

Sarah L.

yep, this has been pretty much my experience now too. i think it sad that all she would think about how people see us when we go out as automatically being lesbians. she should realize everyone doesn't think that way.


Best Wishes,
Warrior Princess Mickie

Quote from: Princess Mickie on April 22, 2008, 11:10:29 AM
i think it sad that all she would think about how people see us when we go out as automatically being lesbians. she should realize everyone doesn't think that way.

No one perceives my wife and I as being a couple anymore. Which is kinda sad in a way. Even people who KNOW us don't, which is really odd... to the point of discussing the "ickiness" of lesbian relationships in front of us just as casual conversation. Not being mean to us, it's just that I suppose we don't give off the "vibes" of being a couple anymore. People who DON'T know us apparently just assume that we're just two women living together, but not "together." Which is true.

We used to stick together at weddings and family gatherings and when with people, but... not anymore. We pretty much go our own ways once there. That made me sad at first, but now it seems... inevitable and appropriate. Kate... well, Kate is her own person, as we're both discovering.

Same with things like shopping. We'd always shop together, and checkout together. Not anymore. We might cooperate a bit when shopping, but more "hey! look at this sale over here!" more than walking around as a couple. And we checkout as separate people, as friends out together... not a married couple.

Oh yes, things change...

~Kate~

Mine is extremely homophobic. She gets very angry if you say the word "lesbian" around her-- let alone actually be it. This marriage is doomed, obviously.

During the first year after I came out, my libido crashed to nearly nothing and sex became very infrequent, maybe once in 2 or 3 months. She wanted me to give it to her the male way-- I complied with that less and less, and once I'd started HRT that was history. I wanted it the lesbian way but our experiments along those lines didn't lead anywhere--I would not want to make her do anything she felt uncomfortable with. The last time we really went for it was almost 3 years ago. Now we sleep in separate bedrooms.

I'm the one who isn't comfortable with heterosexual intimacy, I refuse to be cast in the old male role ever again. I was never any good at it to begin with, and am relieved to be over and done with it. Obviously, I have sworn off sex entirely until after my SRS.

QuoteMine is extremely homophobic. She gets very angry if you say the word "lesbian" around her

That gives me a glimmer of hope Hypatia. My SO has always been open to other females... I think I posted
a story here a while back where early in our relationship we had cheated on each other with the
same girl. And she often comments on how pretty or attractive other women are. In a lot of ways
I think the reason she was attracted to me was because I've never been a real macho guy. That's my hope
anyway.

But as I morph into a woman I wonder if those feelings will stay the same... the fantasy for her may
be better than the reality.

And all that revolves around attraction, it does not cover how she sees me in other areas of our life... and
that's just as big I'm sure.

Quote
During the first year after I came out, my libido crashed to nearly nothing and sex became very infrequent, maybe once in 2 or 3 months. I wanted it the lesbian way but our experiments along those lines didn't lead anywhere.

That is not too much more often than our frequency our entire marriage. It's obviously not been a priority for
either one of us I guess but we both enjoy it and found a way to make it fulfilling.

This may be more graphic than needs to be talked about but I've always wondered how "lesbian" our sex is. I've
never filled a typical male role in sex as I prefer foreplay and really prefer to be the "giver" and don't
really like being the "receiver" of foreplay. There is no nice way to describe that... sorry, but it's an important
point i think. She has always told me it's not about the "event" for her, (but it happens every time lol) just the
closeness and bonding is enough. And for me the feeling I get from her response is SO much more important than my
needs. So I think we may have been having somewhat typical lesbian sex our entire marriage but I guess I really don't
know what a normal sex life is ... LOL.

So yea... your post gives me hope, thanks :)

Amanda

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 22, 2008, 12:50:46 PM
And for me the feeling I get from her response is SO much more important than my needs...

That may change. I felt the same way, experiencing sex vicariously through my wife. It was the best I could do at the time with a male body. But as I became more and more comfortable with my own body, I also started allowing myself to truly feel and acknowledge my own needs, my own desires.

Because...

QuoteI guess I really don't know what a normal sex life is...

Me neither. IMHO, a lot of what we know, or THINK we know, are just convoluted compensations, trying to make sense of an impossible situation. And once we start solving the underlying problem... well, things may not always be as we once thought ;)

~Kate~

QuoteThat may change. I felt the same way, experiencing sex vicariously through my wife. It was the best I could do at the time with a male body. But as I became more and more comfortable with my own body, I also started allowing myself to truly feel and acknowledge my own needs, my own desires.

[A BIG LIGHT BULB GOES ON]  Wow... I've never thought about it like that... I live so many things vicariously through her... why should
this be any different... LOL... thanks Kate :) I guess I assume too much that I'm going to remain the same through all this
and I guess that may not be the case.

QuoteIMHO, a lot of what we know, or THINK we know, are just convoluted compensations, trying to make sense of an impossible situation.

This is very true...

Amanda

Quote from: Nichole on April 22, 2008, 09:34:48 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on April 22, 2008, 08:46:32 AM
Did your wife have trouble being intimate with you as a woman? 

Never had one.....and the question doesn't relate to me...

That being so, why bother to answer then?


N~

Because I wanted to make the point that not everyone who is TS has been through the process where they wanted to marry a woman......

I felt it was wrong and I didn't want to put anyone through a lot of misery. I knew from an early age where I wanted to be and stuck to it...

QuoteBecause I wanted to make a point that not everyone who is TS has been through the process where they wanted to marry a woman......not everyone here lived through that male existance..

It sounds like your saying because we "lived through that male existence" and wanted to marry a women that
we cannot "be women". I was under the impression that sexual orientation had nothing to do with gender orientation :)

And why do you feel the need to make that point? Is it because you think we are not really TS if we are
attracted to other women?

QuoteI felt it was wrong and I didn't want to put anyone through a lot of misery. I knew from an early age where I wanted to be and stuck to it...

I bet for a lot of us here that married it was for one reason... we fell in love with a girl and before we knew what was happening
we were married. I wish I could plan my life better but that's just not the way it's ever worked for me... I live in the moment. I'm
really happy for you that you were able to make that decision... a lot of us were not able to summon that kind of courage
and have that kind of insight about our lives. :)

Amanda

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 22, 2008, 04:49:20 PM
It sounds like your saying because we "lived through that male existence" and wanted to marry a women that
we cannot "be women". I was under the impression that sexual orientation had nothing to do with gender orientation :)

And why do you feel the need to make that point? Is it because you think we are not really TS if we are attracted to other women?

Not at all.....being married and living a male hetro life is what most TS's have experienced....it's me that's the odd ball.....

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 22, 2008, 04:49:20 PM
I bet for a lot of us here that married it was for one reason... we fell in love with a girl and before we knew what was happening we were married. I wish I could plan my life better but that's just not the way it's ever worked for me... I live in the moment. I'm really happy for you that you were able to make that decision... a lot of us were not able to summon that kind of courage and have that kind of insight about our lives. :)

Amanda

Don't get me wrong....I lived with one girl for 9 years! It wasn't a sexual relationship, we were more like best mates......but I do understand some are pressured into situations like marriage by their families etc....

My reply is quite simple.  My wife, who had lots of gay and lesbian friends, tried to kill me when I mentioned I wanted to be a crossdresser.  Luckily, I wasn't diagnosed transsexual until half a year after we separated, or I probably would be dead now.

And then who would fix my husband's dinner?

Robyn

QuoteDon't get me wrong....I lived with one girl for 9 years! It wasn't a sexual relationship, we were more like best mates...

I'm finding that's kinda what we've been too... just did not know it :)

Amanda

Quote from: Robyn on April 22, 2008, 05:23:48 PM
My reply is quite simple.  My wife, who had lots of gay and lesbian friends, tried to kill me when I mentioned I wanted to be a crossdresser.  Luckily, I wasn't diagnosed transsexual until half a year after we separated, or I probably would be dead now.

And then who would fix my husband's dinner?

Robyn

I don't think gender dysphoria is based purely on cross dressing? There are many crossdressers who would never want to transition.

Quote from: Berliegh on April 22, 2008, 05:29:17 PM

Quote from: Robyn on April 22, 2008, 05:23:48 PM
My reply is quite simple.  My wife, who had lots of gay and lesbian friends, tried to kill me when I mentioned I wanted to be a crossdresser.  Luckily, I wasn't diagnosed transsexual until half a year after we separated, or I probably would be dead now.

And then who would fix my husband's dinner?

Robyn

I don't think gender dysphoria is based purely on cross dressing? There are many crossdressers who would never want to transition.

True.  I thought I was "just" a crossdresser.  Transition didn't enter the equation in my mind until I went to see a gender counselor after we had separated.

When I first told my wife about my GID he didn't want anything to do with being intimate with me while dressed.  But as time went by she got to where she didn't mind and at times actually enjoyed being with a woman; as I got closer to beginning HRT she went back to not wanting to be intimate with a woman.  Now that I've been on HRT for a little over 18 mons & full time she wants to be intimate with me but now I have no interest in sex, it seems to be driving a larger wedge between us.  She is wanting to be with her husband and he just doesn't live here anymore it is only me and things just don't work like they use to and seem to not understand or just don't want to hear that we are trying to make things work and stay together but it is looking more and more like my marriage isn't going to make it.

Quote from: ErickaM on April 22, 2008, 05:59:01 PM
When I first told my wife about my GID he didn't want anything to do with being intimate with me while dressed.  But as time went by she got to where she didn't mind and at times actually enjoyed being with a woman; as I got closer to beginning HRT she went back to not wanting to be intimate with a woman.  Now that I've been on HRT for a little over 18 mons & full time she wants to be intimate with me but now I have no interest in sex, it seems to be driving a larger wedge between us.  She is wanting to be with her husband and he just doesn't live here anymore it is only me and things just don't work like they use to and seem to not understand or just don't want to hear that we are trying to make things work and stay together but it is looking more and more like my marriage isn't going to make it.

So sorry to hear that Ericka, I hope you can find a way.

Amanda

Did your wife have trouble being intimate with you as a woman?

Yes, she couldn't manage it. My partner doesn't have that problem.

N~

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 21, 2008, 11:49:29 PM
I'm trying to fully understand what happens to a relationship as
you transition.

Did your wife have trouble being with "another women" ?

If so, when did it start?

Did she complain about your dressing or makeup?

What were the first clues she was not comfortable?

Did she stop wanting to be intimate or did you?

Amanda

What happens depends on the people involved.  There is no one single track.  But...

My ex did not want to be a lesbian (her words).  She stopped being attracted to me the moment I first came out to her.  The first clues were lack of sex.  The complaining continued as long as we stayed together.  And after enough years of her not wanting me, I stopped wanting her.  We both had other romantic interests for a year before we split.  I had to tell her about mine before she was willing to tell me about hers.  No doubt she felt guilty that she was cheating.  It didn't bother me; I figured it would do her good.

Heh.. interesting topic.. definitely has my wheels spinning!

Heres my situation.. I don't know.. maybe it'll help someone, and thats good enough for me.

My wife and I met right after my last relationship - we met at a party but we're set up through friends. Anyway, We have now been together for 3 years and married for 1 year. Definitely my longest relationship.

At the start of our relationship the sex was great. I don't know if it was as often as most couples, but it wasn't bad. Within a few months our sex life started to slowly fade into once or twice a month. Something she always complained about.

Throughout our relationship my wife and I cheated on each other at different points for one reason or another. I only did for the first couple months of our relationship, as it wasn't that serious to me at the time and I was attempting to play the typical guy role in this society. My wife has a couple of times over the years as well.

Anyway, I had to live separate from my wife for the last 11 months for my job. During this time (as I have recently come to find out) my wife has cheated on me with multiple people on multiple occasions. About 5 people all together.

She could have moved here to live with me a few months back, however didn't because we were doing a "trial separation," which she has been convinced would end in a divorce.

Anyway, with that said, now all at once she wants to move down here and be with me. And, until the last few months, I totally would have been alright with EXCEPT for now I have come to terms with my GID and in all honesty, don't feel that much attraction for her anymore. I love her as a person, but I just don't want to be with her if shes wanting me to be the male she knows.

It'll be interesting to see her reaction when she gets down here.

I crossdressed for the longest time as I thought that would be enough but knew that was not my "problem". I knew deep down that I was female. I wasn't about the clothes. My wife was very much OK with that and we were intimate all the time. When I couldn't take it anymore, I started HRT and my skin started to change and I started growing breasts. I think that was the final straw. We still loved each other but to be intimate was not in her core. She just couldn't get intimate with me. It took me a long time to figure out why she would not be intimate with me. I know now, it would gross me out to. We are still in love but in a different way now. We are still married and we are best friends. I think that if one of us wants to date, then we would divorce. Right now its going OK. I know I'm celebate and I'm pretty sure she is. I know that if she wanted to go out and have sex she would ask for a divorce. We have talked about this.
Sheila

Well, I'm not married, but I've been with my girlfriend for 6 and a half years.  We've lived together alone for the past 4 years.  Technically we're common law.

We have not been intimate for the past year.  Sex has been a rare event.  But to be perfectly honest, that's been my doing.  I haven't been comfortable with my body and it's been getting worse and worse.  I told her about my GID under a year ago and so at least she knows why, even if she doesn't really understand it.  I have a very male body still (not on HRT yet) so she doesn't think of me as a woman, which I understand.

I have no idea what will happen once I start HRT.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 21, 2008, 11:49:29 PM
I'm trying to fully understand what happens to a relationship as
you transition.

Did your wife have trouble being with "another women" ?

If so, when did it start?

Did she complain about your dressing or makeup?

What were the first clues she was not comfortable?

Did she stop wanting to be intimate or did you?

Amanda

In her words, she's not a lesbian.   But no, she doesn't have any trouble at all being with a woman.  She is quite comfortable showing affection in public, and doesn't care what other people think.

She never complained about my makeup, only praised me for looking nice; teases me sometimes for being vain, but she likes it when I look pretty.

She would have a problem being intimate with a different woman, but no problem being quite intimate with me.


Bev

Awesome Bev... a ray of light in the dark tunnel... lol... thanks. Sounds like a you have a wonderful
wife.

QuoteI have no idea what will happen once I start HRT.

It's a mixed bad for sure, I hope it goes well.

Amanda

Quote from: Beverly on April 24, 2008, 10:36:46 PM

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 21, 2008, 11:49:29 PM
I'm trying to fully understand what happens to a relationship as
you transition.

Did your wife have trouble being with "another women" ?

If so, when did it start?

Did she complain about your dressing or makeup?

What were the first clues she was not comfortable?

Did she stop wanting to be intimate or did you?

Amanda

In her words, she's not a lesbian.   But no, she doesn't have any trouble at all being with a woman.  She is quite comfortable showing affection in public, and doesn't care what other people think.

She never complained about my makeup, only praised me for looking nice; teases me sometimes for being vain, but she likes it when I look pretty.

She would have a problem being intimate with a different woman, but no problem being quite intimate with me.


Bev

That is what I am hoping for when the wife realizes that I might want to express my feminine side in a tangible way.

Quote from: BeverlyIn her words, she's not a lesbian.   But no, she doesn't have any trouble at all being with a woman.  She is quite comfortable showing affection in public, and doesn't care what other people think.

She never complained about my makeup, only praised me for looking nice; teases me sometimes for being vain, but she likes it when I look pretty.

She would have a problem being intimate with a different woman, but no problem being quite intimate with me.


Bev

That is what I am hoping for when the wife realizes that I might want to express my feminine side in a tangible way.

your wife is definitely awesome bev, it seemed my wife was going to be the same way, and i was like this will be great and easier than i ever thought at least with her, but then she did a complete 180 and now it's i can't be with any kind of woman. i'll give it to you, you're one lucky woman. i'm still hoping and praying maybe she'll do a 180 again and see that i want to honor my commitment to her.

Best Wishes,
Mickie
Warrior Princess

Quote from: Princess Mickie on April 25, 2008, 02:57:56 PM

your wife is definitely awesome bev............
i'm still hoping and praying maybe she'll do a 180 again and see that i want to honor my commitment to her.

Best Wishes,
Mickie
Warrior Princess

Believe me, I understand fully just how lucky I am.  It seemed like a long time until she was completely happy with me as a woman, but it was really only about six months. And now, she says she has never been happier in our married lives.  She even came full circle on the srs.

Bev
Praying your journey has a happy ending

Hum...My SO left me the next morning after I came out to her. When from being in love to nothing in less then an hour.  I'm still not over that.

Beni

Quote from: Berliegh on April 22, 2008, 08:46:32 AM
Did your wife have trouble being intimate with you as a woman? 

Never had one.....and the question doesn't relate to me...

I'm guessing the OP was asking for input from those that have (or had) a wife.  Why take everything so personal?   8)

Aeron

QuoteBelieve me, I understand fully just how lucky I am.  It seemed like a long time until she was completely happy with me as a woman, but it was really only about six months. And now, she says she has never been happier in our married lives.  She even came full circle on the srs.

Bev
Praying your journey has a happy ending

Thank you, really really awesome Bev, thanks for sharing that :)

Beni.. thanks for sharing that too, so sorry it did not work for you.

Amanda

I'm really curious about this too.. My wife has bi tendencies, and knows about the TG stuff in my past (thinking about transitioning, being with men while dressed, dating mtf women and ftm guys)... I'm HOPING that when I break the news that I want to transition, this all will help us stay together as a lesbian couple.

I'd love to talk to anyone who has a functioning "lesbian" marriage now.

QuoteI'd love to talk to anyone who has a functioning "lesbian" marriage now.

I would say mine has been a functioning "lesbian" marriage from the start... from the aspect
of mental/personality...the physical/appearance changes are just starting though
for me... so in that regard it's not.

Amanda