Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Since about my third week of therapy, I've had a "carry letter", a note on my therapist's letterhead stating that I am under her care, all privileges, etc. I was recently surprised to fnd that some girls (including a few that have been in transition for quite a while) have never heard of such a letter.

Do you have one? Have you ever had to use it?

Annie

I have one as well.  I see it as a CYA for myself.

Chaunte

No, I never had one!!!    Is this something new therapists are doing now?
tinkerbell

I don't know if it's something new or not; mine has been seeing TG patients for 20 years, and I have the impression she's been providing such letters for some time. Just in case anyone is curious, mine reads as follows:

(Date)


Re: Ann Elizabeth Xxxxxxxx AKA Xxxx Xxxxxx Xxxxxxxx (legal name)
DOB: xx/xx/xxxx

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter verifies that the above named individual is in psychotherapy with me for gender reassignment from male to female. As part of the transition process, she is presenting as a female as required by the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association's Standards of Care for Gender Identity Disorders*.

In all instances, this individual should be accorded the consideration of her true gender, which is female.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding, and if you have any questions, please call me.


Sincerely yours,

(Signature)

(Name)

*The Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association's Standards of Care for Gender Identity Disorders is the definitive guideline followed by psychiatric, psychological, medical and surgical professionals who treat gender dysphoric individuals.

Quote from: Annie Social on June 13, 2006, 08:39:29 PM...
Do you have one?
...

No.

Quote from: Annie Social on June 13, 2006, 08:39:29 PM...
Have you ever had to use it?
...

No.


Mind you, it seems like a good idea.

But no, I have not run into a situation where I've needed something like that. ;) Yet anyway (=

 Hi Annie:
As soon as I read your first post on this issue, I emailed a friend of mine;  she says that these letters are given to patients who are just beginning to live fulltime as their chosen gender.  I don't know if this applies to you, but it sounds kind of right.
Thank you for anwering my question.
tinkerbell

Quote from: tinkerbell on June 13, 2006, 11:16:33 PM
she says that these letters are given to patients who are just beginning to live fulltime as the role of the gender they identify themselves with.

That's what I thought and the reason I don't have one.  However, now that I know you can get them before going fulltime, I may just do that as I am living part time as female now.  I don't have anything that says I should be treated as female if something were to happen to me with the police.  Since I'm seeing my new therapist in a couple days, I'll be sure to ask him about that.

Melissa

I know a few who have carried one.

Since I had people trying to throw me out of the men's room prior to transition, I did not feel the need to have one myself.  The police seem to care less, on traffic stops.  An Ohio Trooper looked at my ID and then back at me and just stated that I look a lot different since I had the photo taken (I have since changed it).  Sometimes I get quizzed on the info, including the DL number and when the card expires so I have the entire DL memorised, including the positioning of the background pics.  Curiously enough this does not raise any alarm bells.

There was a topic on this awhile ago, last year I think.  But no I don't carry one, and I haven't asked for one, never needed one.

Steph

Stephanie, most people don't really need insurance when driving around, because they never get into an accident.  But, it's always nice to have "just in case".

Melissa

Hello everyone,

I was reading some stuff that Dr. Harry Benjemin wrote back in 1965 I beleive.  He talked about writing such letters because back in the 60's it was illegal to dress as the opposite sex.  It was called "wearing a disguise".  However, after the arrest of someone carrying one of his letters, the police told him to stop or they would charge him with conspiracy, that he had no legal authority to give such letters, and even if he did, they carried no weight.  They also reminded him that he could be sued.  He said he immediately stopped writing such letters, and recinded all the ones he did write.

This is the first I have heard of such letters in more modern times and I would be curious if they in fact carry any legal weight or if they are just thier to calm us down about our anxiety about having to deal with authorities.  I have never changed my drivers licence photo, and have never been hassled by anyone, about using it.  I mean, if you have this letter and were arrested, would they take you to the woman's jail?  Certainly not in Texas.  In Texas you can not change you gender, even with SRS.  Thier law states that you are the gender of your chromosomes.

If anyone can shed any light on the legal implications of this, I for one would find it quite interesting.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth, I know in the city I work in, if you have one of these letters, but your birth genitals, you will be placed in a cell by yourself or with other TS women.  There is only as much legal weight as the particular region allows.

Melissa

I have one but have never carried it. I'd be concerned that it could cause more problems than it fixes by outing me. The law here is that you use the washroom of your gender identity, so that's not an issue for me. I'm not planning on being arrested (not that you ever know 100% about that), so haven't looked into what difference that would make.

Dennis

I have never understood the point of these letters. I also believe that they can be more problematic then helpful.

There are states that still have it illegal to dress in other sex clothing as stated above considered equal to wearing a disguise. Modern times or not, states are not all up to date on a lot of things. In NC it is still legal to beat your wife on the courthouse steps on Sundays...go figure huh? Not that anyone could get away with it, I seriously doubt! But it remains legal and on the books.

I think too it may be that docs that have been involved with TS/IS people ofr 20 plus years tend to continue to give out letters because it is established in their method of practice. 

Just my thoughts about it.

Peace,
Taylor

Quote from: Melissa on June 14, 2006, 08:13:55 AM
Stephanie, most people don't really need insurance when driving around, because they never get into an accident.  But, it's always nice to have "just in case".

Melissa

Very true Melissa, I didn't say it was wrong I meant that our rights and freedoms as transsexuals are covered sufficiently enopugh in Ontario that one is normally not required.  However having said that yes it doesn't hurt to carry one.

Steph

Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on June 14, 2006, 09:48:14 AM
Very true Melissa, I didn't say it was wrong I meant that our rights and freedoms as transsexuals are covered sufficiently enopugh in Ontario that one is normally not required.  However having said that yes it doesn't hurt to carry one.

Steph

Except, Steph, that it could out you when you don't intend it to. Imagine pulling stuff out of your purse and your carry letter drops on the counter at WalMart. Imagine losing your purse or your wallet with the letter in it and some stranger finding it and reading it.

Mine will stay in my filing cabinet as a quaint souvenir of times gone by.

Dennis

I got a "carry letter" when I first transitioned, but I just put it in my car glove box and never took it out.  I never needed it and finally just threw it in the file cabinet at home.

Sarah L.

Quote from: taylor on June 14, 2006, 09:40:11 AM
I have never understood the point of these letters. I also believe that they can be more problematic then helpful.

There are states that still have it illegal to dress in other sex clothing as stated above considered equal to wearing a disguise. Modern times or not, states are not all up to date on a lot of things. In NC it is still legal to beat your wife on the courthouse steps on Sundays...go figure huh? Not that anyone could get away with it, I seriously doubt! But it remains legal and on the books.

I think too it may be that docs that have been involved with TS/IS people ofr 20 plus years tend to continue to give out letters because it is established in their method of practice. 

Just my thoughts about it.

Peace,
Taylor

I'm inclined to agree Taylor.  I'll have to dig out the original topic that discussed this, however I feel that carry letters run along the same lines as identity papers minorities and the like were forced to carry to identify them as belonging to a certain group.  Not for me thanks.

Steph

P.S. I'll send you a PM on that other topic you mentioned.

I think they're useful if your ID still has your birth gender marked on it.  Otherwise, I would suggest just using that.

Melissa

Quote from: Melissa on June 14, 2006, 11:20:43 AM
I think they're useful if your ID still has your birth gender marked on it.  Otherwise, I would suggest just using that.

Melissa

Very true.  But who is asking for all this ID, I know that some feel that the US is drifting the way of a police state.  There was a state in Euprope not so long ago where the fav saying of their police was "Papers please". 

Steph

I agree that there are not many situation they are useful in, I still can see how they could be potentially useful in a few, like jail.  Just because you don't get pulled over by police everyday, doesn't mean you should drive without your license.

Melissa

I had a letter something similar to that. I got my hormones with it and I also, with my name change document, got my DL changed and everything else. I did carry it around for a long time even after SRS. I even carried my surgery paper around for about 6 months. It wasn't until a lady that I worked with said why do you do that. She told me that if anyone approaches you on that matter, just do what any other woman would do, tell them to f___k off. So I took my letters and filed them in my file cabinet. Made my purse a whole lot lighter. Oh, and by the way, I was approached while in transition. Only one time and nothing became of it. It happened at the Mall. A security guard asked me why I was in the womans restroom. We went to see his boss, on my recommendation, and he was told that he wasn't the potty police. He said that right in front of me. I had told them that I had papers to prove that I'm going through the transition phase, but the man in charge said he didn't care to see them as he believed me. His only concern was that I was trying something when we first walked into his office and after a few minutes it was over with. The security guard was in trouble.
Sheila

Throwing my two cents in here, Steph, it's really the cashiers and bartenders asking for ID if you look under 30 and want a pack of cigarettes or an alcoholic beverage or to see an R rated movie.  Me and Lynn can hardly do anything when she's dressed because of the ID problem.  Not that any one has turned her away but that's mostly because she's too afraid of being outed to ask for a drink when we're out.  I doubt that such a paper would make a difference in that kind of situation, but I think for things that are more serious (i.e. anything with the police involved) I'd have to agree with Melissa on that it's better to be safe than sorry.

I have one and make sure to have it with me when I'm in public dressed as a woman. I figure any instance where I have to show an ID is going to out me anyway, but once I have my name change finalized and a new ID card if anyone mentions the M I can just say "oops looks like I need to go have that fixed." :D And that's not even untrue in the long run; fortunately the state I was born in will change the gender marker on birth certificate for a post-op.

(I have got to find out what DMV's policy on ID cards is here in Arizona. It'd be really great if all it takes is an orchi, as I'm considering getting one anyway.)

Well, I just got my new therapist to write me a carry letter and an ID change letter (for gender marker) today and he'll mail it to me.  I can use the carry letter until I get my new ID.


P.S.  I love your picture angelsgirl.  You are sooo cute.  :)

Melissa

I can see where there is much fear in the US as there seems to be a lot of discrimination, even from the police, but I also understand that this is not widespread and varies from State to State.

One way to counter the need to have carry papers is to get your name changed before you start full time.  This doesn't happen over night but should be time to be in effect/approved around the same time that you go full time, and make sure it's changed on all your documents ID's, D/L's, SSN's and what ever else you carry, credit cards etc...  Going out dressed is all well and good, testing the waters, gaining confidence etc.  But if the fear of being discovered is becoming a road block, keeping you locked up in your own prison then what's the point.

Steph

Everyone seems to have their panties in a wad about a carry letter.  Whats the worst that can happen?  You might be embarassed.

You might want to worry about being incarcerated instead.  In you still have one the best you can hope for is confinement in solitary.  The alternative is being in general lockup with others that have the same equiptment.  Only if you are a postie will you be with other women.

Research your local laws and see if they have special rules.

Leigh

Exactly what I've been saying Leigh.

Melissa

Like others on this board, I have one, too.  In the south-central US, where things can get a bit rural at times, it's an absolute must.  You never know when you might encounter "redneck" attitudes in case that you're pulled over by a cop.  Or, if a lady in a restroom objects to your using it. 

By the way, I'm VERY MUCH part-time at best.  But my "carry letter" is my purse ready to go when I am.

Carol

angelsgirl,

I have an ID problem as well and still fighting the state to get the DL changed.

For ordering a drink... What I do is just order with confidence.  Sometimes I am asked for ID and I make a show of taking out my government ID, social security, and digging through the purse.  I then come up empty, apologise, and order a diet coke.  Most times the manager will give the okay for me to be served.

I got my carry letter in the mail on Saturday.  Here's what it says:

QuoteJune 15, 2006

To whom it may concern:

Melissa [Last name] is a male-to-female transsexual in the process of transition from one sex to another. During this process her documentation may be in the name of either Melissa or [Male Name]. Some of her identification may say "male" and some may say "female," until such time as she is able to fully change all appropriate documentation legally. In all situations she is to be considered female, not male.

Any questions may be directed to me at (XXX) XXX-XXXX or via e-mail at xxxxx@xxxx.xxx

Sincerely,

[Therapist Name]

I crossed out any identifying info, since I may eventally want to try and scrub my name from the internet.  I also bolded my favorite part. ;D

I'll be able to get my DL changed next month.

As for the alcohol, there's a simple solution to that.  Don't order any.  That's what I do, or I go to a GLBT bar where they don't ask for ID, since they know it would be upsetting.

Melissa

Surprisingly, they ID even more at the gay bar because of the problem they've had with underage drinkers, and if you're in a dress everyone assumes you're a guy underneath it, anyway so she doesn't care about the ID too much.  It really must throw them for a loop when the both of us show up in a skirt!

Anywhere else that we drink, the ID thing can get pretty embarrassing, and because she's 22 (and looks younger than that) she gets carded more than I do.  Although, at one of the bars they've stopped asking because she used to go as Josh all the time and I think they figured it out and stopped badgering her after I made a few indignant comments.

I think it'll be much easier when she goes full-time and has her ID changed.  I can't really see what a carry letter will do in the bar situation, anyway.  I'm just griping 'cause I can.  >:D

Melissa: Thank you for your nice comment on my avy.

You're right, a carry letter wouldn't do much in a bar, since they'll treat you how they want regardless.  Like I said though, don't drink.  It will save embarrassment, money, and health.

Melissa

QuoteLike I said though, don't drink.  It will save embarrassment, money, and health.

Yes, yes, but all of those things are so terribly boring!  ;)

But seriously, I feel bad when Jocelyn is the only one not getting to have a single drink because of the ID issue.  At home, we hardly ever drink.  It's part of the fun in going out!   I just don't like her being left out (again) because of her condition.

Ah, I see.  Well, have fun with it then.  If Jocelyn passes well, it's fun to see looks of surprise.  If it makes Jocelyn feel bad, maybe updating the picture on the ID might work.  Your not trained to look at the gender on ID.  I know since I have 2 bartending licenses.

Melissa

Ooooh! That's a really good idea!  They might notice that the name isn't a girl's, but it's better than the current picture in which she's sporting a goattee (she was trying to "blend in" with regular guys at the time).  Thanks!