Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Have your relationships with woman been different?

I realized this about myself a few years ago probably about the time I was admitting that there was something
different about me from normal males. I talked to an old friend today that happens to be a girl... she was never
a girlfriend. It reminded me of this story and also how my relationship with women was even when I was young.
I really felt a NEED to have them as a friend and for some reason they felt the same way.

My friend was actually a stripper in her youth(she prefers dancer) and that is how we met. This was when I was
maybe 22 or 23. It was a bachelor party and I was there being the best man... that's was a joke. I ended up
spending the night talking to the girls more than watching. In fact I had a great time but I don't remember seeing
anyone naked.

I was not real comfortable with in your face naked dancing so I had wandered off and started chatting with
one of the dancers at a back table. My buddies always talked about how intimidated they were when talking to
dancers. I never got that, I think becuase I never thought about them the same way. Even today if I
had to make a choice between girlfriend or friend with my wife I'd not hesitate to choose friend.

Anyway, at one point I looked up and there were four gorgeous girls and me sitting around, laughing, and me having
the time of my life. Not in anyway sexual but just enjoying their stories about customers and things like that. Of
course later I was a "god" in the eyes of my buddies, they assumed I was trying to pick up one of the dancers.

And in fact I did...or she picked me up... but she became a good friend, we talked daily after that, it
never approached a boy/girl relationship, never even kissed, but we just clicked as friends. She did bring it up several years later,
at her wedding actually, and I was married by then too... she said at one time she was obsessed about getting with
me at one point but we had been friends so long and knew things about each other that would have made things
so awkward that she never let me know. I smiled and agreed with her, but the truth is, even though she was beautiful
and sexy and had probably the best body I've ever seen I wanted and treasured her friendship more than any type
of physical relationship. I was more attracted to her girly-girl-ness and personality as a friend. And in fact, I realize
as I write this I wanted to be her... it was a common theme for me I guess. 

We had a chance to talk during the reception and she told me at first she thought I was gay because I never once made any
inappropriate comments and she was SO used to fighting that off. Then she realized that I was not gay because I talked so
much about my girlfriend(now wife) and she said she was jealous at times of our relationship. I was stunned that she was jealous
of me, even though I did not think of her in those terms. But she was a great friend that I feel a closeness to even today. She
calls me or I call her at least a few times each year to catch up. She lives in a different city but we try to have lunch every
couple of years when we are in the others city.  She would want everyone to know that dancing paid for her school including her
masters... LOL... I can hear her telling me to say that. She would also want me to tell you about her two beautiful daughters
that she would not let anywhere near a strip club... and yes... she feels strongly about that.

Other than my SO she knows me better than anyone. I've not come out to her yet but I do plan to, she is actually one
of the people I'm excited to tell, and I'm curious to see her reaction. She went through a period when she had some one
night stands with other dancers that she felt the need to tell me about, I think I was her safe sounding board. Coming
out to her though will clear up a lot of things I hope and her input will be really cool to hear.

Have you had any special relationships or friends?

Amanda

I've always had a hard time with women. I never understood how to treat them as a guy and why guys were so stupid with them. I could never handle going to topless clubs with my friends and the couple times I went I was very uncomfortable. I always felt so jealous of the girls in there and wondered why they were there. Women that beautiful should be lead sales women of major corporations or something. I can understand they are not there for the sex but for the money. If men are stupid enough to pay to look..then why not??

I've had a lot of relationships but nothing that ever laster too long. Women can sense insecurity and if I was anything it was an insecure male. Its ok if you are female and were insecure...but it was hard for me. I've always respected and tried to be friend with women. I don't really have any guy friends and don't do much. I've always wanted to be around women, unfortunately I was always looked at like a guy...maybe a gay one but still a male. I could "never understand" the issues they faced. And that hurts because I could understand just about everything but menstrual cramps. I swear I get them every month anyhow....I get moody and cramp up, go figure.

I've never had a guys relationship with a woman for too long. I could only lie for so long and eventually my true colors would show. (I love those shoes...I love that top...that skirt....you look cute in that...can I go shoe shopping with you?? Can I try that on?? Can you help me with my makeup....)

I've never had trouble making female friends; for awhile there it was rather frustrating as a young guy that instead of having girlfriends I would have girl friends. My wife started out as a friend at work, and it grew from there. Even today I have no trouble making friends with women. I find that they all want to chat with me like i'm one of their gal pals.

I don't know that relationships I have with other women are 'special' or different. It's just the way it works for me. I do much better talking and interacting with other women than with men most of the time, certainly on a friendship-level. It's been that way since I can remember. My first bestest friend was the 2 year old I lived beside when I was 2.

N~

I make female friends just like that *snaps fingers for effect*

I don't know. I think they catch on to the fact that I don't want anything from them but their company pretty early. A few have tried to love me, but I have made sure to become their friend as well. Some of them say it's just because I'm such a good guy, and I'm dependable and stuff and they feel they can talk to me about anything. During some of the more emotional talks I've had with girls (emotional from their side) they've commented "It's so weird talking to a guy about this", but they're not hindered by it.

I've surprised a few girls, I think, by not taking advantage of the situation at parties. I've had girls sleeping in my bed going all "what the hell happened!" and then going very much surprised/impressed when I'd managed to convince them that -nothing- happened. I dunno. They still see me as a guy, of course, but I'm their best guy-friend, then. And it's not even because they think I'm gay. A friend of mine only just found out a month ago that my sexual orientation differed from the norm (of course depending on you point of view) and she was surprised!

I don't know what it is, but I just act natural around girls, I don't need to impress them or flirt or anything. And I think they feel really comfortable around me too, then.


~Moi

QuoteI think they catch on to the fact that I don't want anything from them but their company pretty early.

Yea I think that is it... it's the vibe we put out or something. It is never said... it is just sensed somehow. I also
think that women put guys into two slots pretty quickly... boyfriend or friend only. Maybe we are just
put into the friend category and we don't care so it's not an issue. Whereas a normal guy put into the friend
category would try to make it to the boyfriend category and push too hard. 

Quote
A few have tried to love me, but I have made sure to become their friend as well. Some of them say it's just because I'm such a good guy, and I'm dependable and stuff and they feel they can talk to me about anything. During some of the more emotional talks I've had with girls (emotional from their side) they've commented "It's so weird talking to a guy about this", but they're not hindered by it.

I've gotten "It's so weird talking to a guy about this" more than a few times. And "It's weird to get a guys point of view on this".
My SO always told me... "you are such a great listener". LOL... maybe the truth was I was so mesmerized by her... no... I think
I do listen more than a normal male... I think it's built into our brains.

Amanda

Yeah. My father is...uhm...okay, I think he's split there...

About my girl friends, I mean. Because I have so many that I go out with regularly, he must think that at least -one- is a girlfriend...probably, he's both puzzled and proud. I tease him with it sometimes. I think he'd just really like me to have a girlfriend. By now, even -he- should be catching on to the fact that I'm not like other boys.

Anyway!

My boy friends have commented that I know a lot of girls (I do! Every time we play with the band, there's someone I know there and we hug and smile and the band just stares and goes what-the-hell, hit that you idiot!), but that I'm just the kind of guy who's too nice and ends up in the friends-zone. Which suits me fine, 'cause it's a lot easier to talk to friends about stuff.

For -some- reason, they don't get it. Go figure  ::)

Girls are awesome, and I can't wait to be one.


~Moi

My relationships with "natal girls" (GGs always let me down by falling at that last fence !) is still tenous ... I really identified as female as a teen and had many girl "friends" ... but it was hard to hold on as they dated & married.

So for well over two decades I got by as a "gay / femme" guy .... flirting with guys, guess shying from women ....

Even post-op I can "pull" a cute straight guy and chat with him till the early hours, developing a real male / female relationship, but I still struggle to make more than small talk with women .... guess I find guys just sooo much more interesting to chat and flirt with ...  ??? ....

Girl on girl talk is always loaded with trivialiry, competition and envy ....

Guy on guy talk is plain boring and incomprehensible ....

Girl to guy talk means I can talk "girl feelings or relationships" but still discuss football results, or F1 / cars, to keep him hooked !

So guess as a woman I get on much better with guys than other women ....  ::) .... and certainly no special relationship with women ....

Laura x

I'm so comfortable making new relationships with women that considering
I've been a loner all my life its just incredible!!

I talk about small things, big things, whatever things.

It just seems so incredibly natural, I've got
dozens of female acquantances I keep in touch with,
a few closer friends and one best friend.

None to my knowledge know I'm not born GG.

I'm a bit less comfortable with men when one on one
in a look like a date context,
(mostly because of whole looks like a date when
I've got the thing down there), but otherwise
I feel remarkably open with them to, though I've
only made 2-3 acquaintance I keep in touch with
and one male friend in two year.

my first girlfriend and girl friend was the girl across the street, we'd pretty much do everything togther, and if her older sister was there she'd join in on whtever we were doing at the time. the girls i work with now, when i first started really didn't talk to me, didn't even say hi most of the time, then i started pulling my hair back and then like overnight the really pretty ones started talking to me first. even though the whole store pretty much knows, none of the girls have given me a hard time, in fact a lot more of them come and talk to me, and the female customers i wait on are really nice, last sunday this girl came in and she had a flat tire, poor girl dating this real ->-bleeped-<- of a guy who i use to work with, she said he treated her really nice and she asked me what it was like to work with all guys, u know just girl talk. i pity the poor girl 4 dating that guy, you have no idea how bad i wanted to walk around the counter and hug her so bad, this guy was a total jackass to everyone, i was glad when he left and joined the military, his attitude didn't really fit anywhere else. i have always had excellent relationships with women, some days i wish it could be my own flesh and blood....


Warrior Princess,
Mickie

Looking back, I've had more friends who were females than males. My dad used to tease me that "one of my harem" was on the phone. None of them were girlfriends, but they were girls who were my friends.

In general, I think I find females easier to related to than males. I've always been that way.

Sure, I've always been much more comfortable around girls... although there was a sad lack of girl friends through my teenage years. In early childhood, I at least had a couple girls as neighbors to play with. And much later, once my guy friends started dating more seriously after high school, I had their girlfriends to hang out with. And my wife's friends. Etc.

I hate saying it though, as I don't want to insinuate that it means "I'm a girl inside" or whatever. But... it's what happened. Throw me into a social situation with guys and girls, and sooner or later we'd segregate... and I'd be sitting with the women. I'd go out with my wife and other couples and end up talking with the girls, not the men.

And yes, I've heard the "I can't believe I'm telling you this!" all too often, lol, learning waaaaaaaay more than I wanted to know about their sex lives, etc. But... I was "harmless" to girls, and emotional and willing to listen and sympathize, sooooo... I heard it all. It drove my wife crazy, as she'd always be complaining when I told her, "that's SUCH an inappropriate conversation to be having with you, my husband!" But, to them, I wasn't a "husband." I was just harmless little 'ol me.

Girls were rarely attracted to me. And the few times it did happen, it made me terribly uncomfortable... like finding out your best friend or sister is attracted to you. It was just "wrong" and inappropriate and icky somehow.

I don't "notice" girls, if that makes sense. It's NOT a "special relationship" with them. It just is. But with men, I always feel this pressure to entertain, to keep them fed with pizza and video games or car talk or encourage them to brag about themselves or SOMEthing... which can be amusing too, but I'm *aware* of it. There's a dynamic going on I have to maintain. Girls though... whatever, lol.

~Kate~

From a TG perspective, I always have had an easier time making friends with girls/women than guys.  Any friends I've had that are guys are not usually "typical" guys.  They're usually more intelligent than average, somewhat more introspective and not necessarily adverse to talking about "deep" subjects.  We're not limited to sports scores for example.  Part of the reason for that is that none of us are really sports fans.  That's sort of what I mean by atypical.  None of us are into cars, sports, topless bars, that kind of thing. 

WRT friendships with females, I don't get treated like a typical guy, but I also don't get treated like a typical girl.  The relationship is different.  It is most similar to the relationship that a girl has with a guy who is married or otherwise attached, but I am married so that explains that.  I think that girls seem more comfortable around guys who are attached.  Maybe it makes the guy appear more stable, maybe safe and trustworthy.  Amanda's story about talking up her girlfriend while in the strip club is a perfect example.  Amanda didn't appear like a creepy ogler while chatting it up with the girls, so they were more comfortable around her.  Of course, the easier time she has talking to girls is what allowed her to keep the friends she made.  That's where being TG comes in.  For myself, I've always had an easier time relating to girls.  I just understand them better, and have an easier time talking to them.  Once I can break the ice, I've usually made a friend because I find it so much easier to have a conversation with a girl.

WoW! Great story Amanda and thanks for sharing everyone!

It's so interesting... there's this similar pattern here I find fascinating but, though similar, my relationship with girls manifested itself slightly differently.

Like Kate, when a group of girls and guys got together, we'd soon segregate and I'd find myself sitting with the girls, relating to them and having a gay old time. ( :laugh: pun, I'm funny)
But I grew up uber-hypermasculine. I learned everything I could from these boys (big fighting/military/violent/punch-me-in-the-groin-first-one-who-makes-a-sound-loses type guys) I absorbed it and encompassed the values multiplied 10-fold.

So, here I am, segregated with the girls and what do "guys" do in that situation? So I did. And did often. I had the respect of all the guys as being the one who could "seal the deal," almost without fail. Such a stark contrast of who I am today.

I feel bad now when I think about it. I'd gain their trust and confidence through a "back door" of sorts. They'd always say how they "connect" with me in ways they never have with a guy before. They'd be fascinated, they'd advance... and I did what I was expected to do. But what's funny, looking back, I remember the roles being seemingly switched! I felt like the submissive: "Maybe we shouldn't do this." "I don't think I can." "Will this change our relationship? I don't want to lose you as a friend."

Geez... if the guys saw that...   :icon_punch::icon_zombie:

There are some really great points in this thread. I can relate to many of them.

I grew up super masculine as well. Hunted, fished, joined the army, and looked up to John Wayne and Clint Eastwood and tried to mimic how they acted and treated people. I would latch onto strong guys and try to get advice from them. It makes transition that much harder for me mentally trying to think about how others are going to take this uber "male" figure and see it transform into a female. I work with all women...many know there is something about me that is way off. I'm not like the other guys....then some women see me as uber male. Some think I'm hiding some dark secret.....

This is all so strange...

I must be nucking futs.   :icon_zombie:

QuoteI'm so comfortable making new relationships with women that considering
I've been a loner all my life its just incredible!!

I talk about small things, big things, whatever things.

It just seems so incredibly natural, I've got
dozens of female acquaintances I keep in touch with,
a few closer friends and one best friend.

You know Keira...LOL...  I've always pictured you as a "life of the party" kinda girl... it
sounds funny to hear you say you were a loner. I guess you look like a lot
of my girl friends who seem to always be the center of attention. (That's
a good thing :)) But I know you mean as a guy... but it's just hard to
think or picture you as a guy. But I tend to forget that about EVERYBODY here.

I guess I was a loner too with other guys... I could never BS about
sports... I followed sports but I never understood their hero worship
of the players. I always hated talking about women with other guys...
I'd just stand there silent.


I was also a loner with women to the extent that I did not seek them out... they came
to me. But I see that happen to my wife too... she is like a gay man's magnet. (NO that does
not mean I'm gay LOL.. maybe she's a TS magnet too)

QuoteNone to my knowledge know I'm not born GG.

It is so great to hear things like that. Someday maybe... someday.

QuoteI hate saying it though, as I don't want to insinuate that it means "I'm a girl inside" or whatever. But... it's what happened. Throw me into a social situation with guys and girls, and sooner or later we'd segregate... and I'd be sitting with the women. I'd go out with my wife and other couples and end up talking with the girls, not the men.

LOL... I can SO relate to this Kate... It makes me understand so much when I hear similarities like this.  This happened a lot in my
twenties at social gatherings... I thought it was so weird at the time and so did my wife... I'd be having as good a time with the
other women and they would with me... and I'd tried to join the "guy" groups... but I just did not fit in and it was painful. I would
invariably wander back to a lone girl and start chatting and I'd look up and a group would have joined us... it was not ME they were
joining, but I think I would somehow get them to open up and be the conversation starter. And I liked to ask questions AND listen to
their answers.

And for the most part nothing was "out of bounds" and there was lots of talk about sex, especially in my twenties.
And the irony of that was not lost on me... my sex life was absolutely painful, tame, plain vanilla and barely there but
talking about it was totally open and comfortable and frequent. I guess maybe it was the denial... things I felt my role as a
male made me do opposed to what was actually happening.

I was standing with my wife at a party once... with about 4 or 5 other girls around. The conversation had been about things
guys like to do in bed. I had put in my 2 cents, tainted as it was. My wife, the doll that she is, built me up the best she could.
The conversation had died and I just blurted out to no one in particular "Does your boyfriend/SO like your boobs?"... OMG we spent
the next hour talking about boobs... and get this... the girls feeling each others LOL... whose were firm, how breast implants felt, etc.
One even wanted to show us her implants but was talked out of it. It was uncomfortable but fun all at the same time. I think they
liked being asked questions like that because they wanted to talk about certain things but were afraid to bring them up. I asked
my wife about it one time and she said women love to talk about racy things but no one wants to go first. I guess I was the
first a lot of times. :)

Amanda

Quote from: Lori on May 15, 2008, 12:19:46 PM
There are some really great points in this thread. I can relate to many of them.

I grew up super masculine as well. Hunted, fished, joined the army, and looked up to John Wayne and Clint Eastwood and tried to mimic how they acted and treated people. I would latch onto strong guys and try to get advice from them. It makes transition that much harder for me mentally trying to think about how others are going to take this uber "male" figure and see it transform into a female. I work with all women...many know there is something about me that is way off. I'm not like the other guys....then some women see me as uber male. Some think I'm hiding some dark secret.....

This is all so strange...

I must be nucking futs.   :icon_zombie:

Awwwww... don't worry too much Lori. I was on the same boat. I transitioned from the alpha-uber male at hair school! LoL Good times, it was! When I first started the one-year program, I promised myself not to start intimate (sexual) relationships with anyone. The girls would tell me how 'manly' I was and would "want to hang out." LoL I didn't let it happen. About half way through I came out as "gay." Then slowly started letting myself be more "me." By the end of the year, nearing graduation, rumors of me "wanting to be a girl," "wearing bras," and seemly "having bewbs" were rampant. I went FT three months later.

I always found it easier to talk to or hang out with girls. I was able to be myself and actualy carry on a conversation without them feeling like I just wanted to have sex with them. When ever I was with the guys something dumb always would happen..and at the end of the evening I always found myself saying what a fool I was to do that or say that, and most of the times being pushed into the situation from the rest (basicly being the testosterone poisoned fool that they wanted me to be).

The strangest thing about this was when I was dating or married and talking to my girlfriends friends or my wifes girlfriend it was looked upon them as I was flirting with them....but in actuality I enjoyed it in a non sexual way...I felt like one of the girls. You could imagine how I could not defend myself for my actions, without having my date or later on wife know I have some type of gender problem, so case closed...flirting it was and my sentence was put in order. Life could be so difficult at times.

Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 15, 2008, 12:41:21 PM

Awwwww... don't worry too much Lori. I was on the same boat. I transitioned from the alpha-uber male at hair school! LoL Good times, it was! When I first started the one-year program, I promised myself not to start intimate (sexual) relationships with anyone. The girls would tell me how 'manly' I was and would "want to hang out." LoL I didn't let it happen. About half way through I came out as "gay." Then slowly started letting myself be more "me." By the end of the year, nearing graduation, rumors of me "wanting to be a girl," "wearing bras," and seemly "having bewbs" were rampant. I went FT three months later.

Well my boat is odd. I am married and have a 3 year old son........

And the hardest thing is my wife and I work for the same company  :icon_blink:

I know I should grow some "balls" and just get it over with but I am a worry wart. I already wear sports bras..but judging by how fast "they" are growing...and how big my mom is I'd say that I may be in for it soon.

But growing "balls" would be counter-productive.  :P

Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 15, 2008, 01:24:35 PM
But growing "balls" would be counter-productive.  :P

yes..but I could use some about now  :icon_redface:

some metaphors are just terrible for some people...lol, when i do start hormones, i'm probably in for a real backache myself, i feel for you, Lori. surprisingly my sis offered me some of hers yesterday, she doesn't like hers...lol


Warrior Princess,
Mickie

Quote from: Princess Mickie on May 15, 2008, 02:00:29 PM
some metaphors are just terrible for some people...lol, when i do start hormones, i'm probably in for a real backache myself, i feel for you, Lori. surprisingly my sis offered me some of hers yesterday, she doesn't like hers...lol


Warrior Princess,
Mickie

Tell her to join so we can talk lol.

i would but i don't think she's really ready for ALL of us at least not yet...lol. she's still coming to terms with me and so is her soon to be husband, the only thing they have asked me to do is dress like a man for their wedding and of course i told her i would. it's her wedding and i refuse to ruin it for them, my so is in it too. i wasn't going to go because i didn't want to cause problems and she just doesn't want people to talk bad about me, i love the poor dear.....


Warrior Princess
Mickie

Before I was looked at by girls differently. I was "awww that cute shy boy :D" But now I am not looked at differently. I'm just "haha that cool weird girl"

which is what I want. I dont want anything special.

Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 15, 2008, 12:07:31 PM
So, here I am, segregated with the girls and what do "guys" do in that situation? So I did. And did often. I had the respect of all the guys as being the one who could "seal the deal," almost without fail. Such a stark contrast of who I am today.

I feel bad now when I think about it. I'd gain their trust and confidence through a "back door" of sorts. They'd always say how they "connect" with me in ways they never have with a guy before. They'd be fascinated, they'd advance... and I did what I was expected to do.

I had the exact same experience.  The girls I knew always felt really comfortable around me, and then, well you get the idea.  I've been thinking about that a lot lately, and wondered whether there was someone else with a similar experience... 

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 16, 2008, 05:18:28 PM
Before I was looked at by girls differently. I was "awww that cute shy boy :D" But now I am not looked at differently. I'm just "haha that cool weird girl"

which is what I want. I dont want anything special.

same here

Interestingly, all the years I denied my femininity, I got along great with women and dated a string of them. Since embracing my femininity, I am still interested in women but usually get hit on by guys and not women, go figure! I even find it hard to have women as friends as I cannot figure out the dance between women.