Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm curious how many androgynes feel the need to change there body to show there true selves and how

I still consider myself an androgyne. Yet even so I want my body to match my identity -- which is not completely male or female. I wish the world would be more accepting of this, but of course I'll be perceived as a weirdo for only changing some things.

Regardless my sights are set on doing this. I guess I'm supposed to love my body, but that just isn't the case. It just isn't true.

As I've posted in another thread this morning, I'm now feeling the need to move forward in this regard. Not really sure how far I need to go, I'm sure I'll know what feels right when I get there, lol.

Z

Quote from: Zythyra on July 01, 2008, 10:09:58 AM
Not really sure how far I need to go, I'm sure I'll know what feels right when I get there, lol.

That just about sums it up for me too.

At least for me it's not really a matter of wishing 'a more neutral look' or 'both male and female parts', but rather a conflict between a need to be female and a need to be male. I'm pretty much convinced I have Benjamin's syndrome (that is, the medical syndrome one gets by taking the snobbery and political crap out of HBS), and in that sense a need for a female body is always lurking somewhere in the back of my mind. On the other hand, there are a lot of social reasons to not go all the way -- for instance, a need for intimacy with the person I love is enough for me to appreciate the flesh-and-blood dildo between my legs. What I'm looking for is a compromise between these conflicting needs.

For me, being androgyne is more a matter of social gender than physical sex. Still, that social gender makes me unwilling to fix the physical issues quite as much as I'd otherwise want to. As for how far I'm going, trial and error has worked surprisingly well over the past year or so, but only time will tell if that's going to continue. I still have my hopes.

  Nfr

I would love to be able to change certain parts of my body to appear more in the middle between the binary genders, but it's not something I'll likely do for a long time, if ever. I've taken a few small, inexpensive steps toward a more neutral appearance such as a different haircut and thinking about dressing a little differently/more neutral sometimes.

I kind of never thought about it, but like Je said, we might be perceived as "weird" if we only change -some- things, and not everything. I guess after modern america taking so long to understand TS, adrogyne/third gender is a whole different ballgame that might take a while to understand as well.

I would like to look more neutral.  I don't really care about the body so much as my face/hair...I'd like to look completely androgynous. 

I've been meditating on this for a long time, to be sure I know what I really want out of the body.  It seems that the answer is yes, I do want to change the body, but not "all the way" like a TS.

This desire poses a lot of practical complications.

Quote from: je on July 01, 2008, 10:02:50 AM
I still consider myself an androgyne. Yet even so I want my body to match my identity -- which is not completely male or female. I wish the world would be more accepting of this, but of course I'll be perceived as a weirdo for only changing some things.

Regardless my sights are set on doing this. I guess I'm supposed to love my body, but that just isn't the case. It just isn't true.

Thats how i feel to
wanting to change doesn't make you not an androgyne

for me a fem body +beard


if any 1 wants a new option just say so I'll add it

Quote from: Kinkly on July 02, 2008, 07:23:27 AM

Quote from: je on July 01, 2008, 10:02:50 AM
I still consider myself an androgyne. Yet even so I want my body to match my identity -- which is not completely male or female. I wish the world would be more accepting of this, but of course I'll be perceived as a weirdo for only changing some things.

Regardless my sights are set on doing this. I guess I'm supposed to love my body, but that just isn't the case. It just isn't true.

Thats how i feel to
wanting to change doesn't make you not an androgyne

for me a fem body +beard


if any 1 wants a new option just say so I'll add it

I'd love to be able to have facial hair :( I actually think I'd look quite well with a 'stache :D

For me, i've come to the conclusion that being androgyne is mostly a mental "thing" for me moreso than a requiring physical body changes thing. Still, i'm working on a few body tweaks here and there  :laugh:

I've always been androgynous mentally and emotionally, and I feel my body should reflect that as well. I've taken steps (and still am) to become genderless physically, and though I may never be completely genderless (internal organs etc) there is an outer appearance that first opinions are made on; which is something I try to make neutral.

Enjoy what my money, time, and therapy have created and molded, or I should say corrected. No other way.

I am neutrois and have been on testosterone blockers and a low dose of estrogen for a little over a year.  I've gained a little breast growth from this which I don't really like but I deal and am small enough that binding is easy (breasts removal is an option later if I feel I need it).*  My appearance is probably more on the female side of androgynous now but not so much that I cant easily appear ambiguous with appropriate clothing.  I've also had a lot of laser so am nearly clear of facial hair.

Today is the biggest step, losing the male genitalia.  Getting pretty close to my body being the way I feel it should be now.

*The alternative was going on T-blockers only which would have had health impacts and I would have still looked basically male, so in the long term this seemed the best option, and I'm glad i took it.  Though if I hadn't been able to access surgery in a fairly short time frame I probably would have taken a slower transition path starting with just T-blockers.

Quote from: Andra on July 03, 2008, 06:12:35 AM
Today is the biggest step, losing the male genitalia.  Getting pretty close to my body being the way I feel it should be now.

Congratulations Andra! I hope your surgery goes well today!

Z

Quote from: Andra on July 03, 2008, 06:12:35 AM

Today is the biggest step, losing the male genitalia.  Getting pretty close to my body being the way I feel it should be now.

congratulations Andra
good luck with a fast recovery

Congrats Andra, I hope you recover quickly.

That's awsome andra. How did it go? (and don't say *snip* ;))

If I were to 'transition' I would not have any surgery. I think all I need could be achieved with hormones.

I'm currently in a really low dysphoria 'phase' coming off the back of a horrendous dysphoria 'phase'. My body is good -I feel once again that I am a goddess of a man.

I think I have transitioned to some extent. My facial hair is almost gone thanks to lazer. My hair is getting real long so I have something to play with. I removed my flesh tunnels and the holes have shrunk so that I can now wear pretty earings. The ultimate would be social androgyny but I'll settle for social oddity for now.

I too am wondering, how are you Andra?


Glad to see you doing better Nicksister.
Sounds like you accomplished or learned something from the experience.

Quote from: sd on July 06, 2008, 04:33:16 PM
Glad to see you doing better Nicksister.
Sounds like you accomplished or learned something from the experience.

Thank you. Yes, I do feel like I have learned something. What that is I can't quite articulate, but I feel like I have the tail of something elusive. I'm starting to see that my ultimate 'end point' is not a distinct thing and that this is ok. I feel like if I can allow myself some fluidity, to express things that are purely me rather than see them as expressions of male or female, I will be much better off than trying to force myself into one hole or live up to some 'ideal'.

Quote from: NickSister on July 06, 2008, 04:29:53 PM
That's awsome andra. How did it go? (and don't say *snip* ;))

Went fine thanks, very little pain.  Still very swollen down there (par for the course) and peeing through a catheter but I am mobile and have a fair amount of energy.  Being discharged tuesday if all is well.  :)

Quote from: Andra on July 06, 2008, 05:08:03 PM
Went fine thanks, very little pain.  Still very swollen down there (par for the course) and peeing through a catheter but I am mobile and have a fair amount of energy.  Being discharged tuesday if all is well.  :)

Does this mean you are now a eunuch? I wonder if that name even applies to a neutrois?

I read somewhere about Turkish eunuchs of the 16th century keeping a hollow silver quill in their turbans that they use to help them pee. Sorry - random I know.

Quote from: NickSister on July 06, 2008, 07:16:14 PM
Does this mean you are now a eunuch? I wonder if that name even applies to a neutrois?

I read somewhere about Turkish eunuchs of the 16th century keeping a hollow silver quill in their turbans that they use to help them pee. Sorry - random I know.

Not really sure eunuch applies, as I don't have a penis (eunuch generally seems to just refer to castrated men these days) and I don't regard myself as male. 

About the Turkish people, I can see how a penectomy without urethral relocation would lead to difficulty peeing.  My urethra has been re-routed down to where it is in female genitalia so I should be able to sit down and pee easily once healed.

Quote from: Andra on July 07, 2008, 01:27:29 AM
Not really sure eunuch applies, as I don't have a penis (eunuch generally seems to just refer to castrated men these days) and I don't regard myself as male. 

Look up nullified eunuch.
There is more than one way to make a eunuch.

Quote from: Andra on July 07, 2008, 01:27:29 AM
Not really sure eunuch applies, as I don't have a penis (eunuch generally seems to just refer to castrated men these days) and I don't regard myself as male. 

I figured the same thing. On a similar vein you can't really call a MtF that had SRS a eunuch.

i went for both male and female parts, but would have been happyer with more nutrual really but i dont think this is achivable as when you take hormones or have ops you mostly either add or take away sexual carictoristics from one sex or the other so end up looking more like the other well naked at least what you choose to do with clothing and binders and stuff is another matter. so realisticly i go for both. if i get on hormones there will be some breast grow which people will see as female while also some lessening of male bits too. its a balance of the 2.

I definitely feel like I need to change my body to match who I feel I am.  I'm interested in doing what Andra did (though orchiectomy and low-level estrogen might be enough for me), but I'm very afraid that I won't be able to find therapists and doctor(s) who will help me.  I guess they exist, but how do I find them?

i would like a more of a neutrality in my life, instead of being unquestionably physically female with all my clothes on and then consequently presumed to be the lesbian i am not since they "accidentally" took me for a boy.  my social transition may be seen a binary one, as i definitely plan to go on testosterone to deepen my voice and get top surgery and pass as male consistently causing a pronoun change.  for me, that is a part of my androgyny.  i am an androgynous being trapped in a pretty androgynous but not quite enough body.  the androgyny i had in childhood is what i'd like to strive for these days. but i'll be an old man one day, if i'm blessed enough to make it that far.   my history might look like it would have left me, but my androgynous spirit will always be there.

Quote from: IHPUN on August 09, 2008, 01:58:53 AM
I definitely feel like I need to change my body to match who I feel I am.  I'm interested in doing what Andra did (though orchiectomy and low-level estrogen might be enough for me), but I'm very afraid that I won't be able to find therapists and doctor(s) who will help me.  I guess they exist, but how do I find them?

Best thing to do first I think is to search around online for information about genderqueer/non-binary friendly therapists in your area.  If you find a therapist who'll help you and write the necessary letters then getting endos and doctors to deal with you shouldn't be much more difficult than for binary TSs.  The alternative is to e-mail/ring various therapists and ask.  There are a few who mention on their websites that they will help non-binary people.

Getting someone to do the surgery once you have letters is less of an issue since you can travel further for something that's a one off.

I'm happy with everything down there, but I'm still debating whether I'd prefer a full-on top surgery or just some sort of liposuction/breast reduction to get me down to an A cup, if even such a surgery exists, especially as I'm a large B, small C, and reduction surgeries are usually for those with DDD chests.

so andra's gone for playing with knives...blimey. Does it feel right now?

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 10, 2008, 01:22:26 PM
so andra's gone for playing with knives...blimey. Does it feel right now?

It feels like I have loose bits of stitching rubbing against my sensitive parts.
...
Otherwise, yes.  Feels very very right  :)

right is good

I hope I feel right in my body someday.  I'm starting to look for gender therapists in my area, but I can't find any information on whether or not they acknowledge non-binary genders, especially in terms of recommending hormones and surgery.  I guess I'll just have to start calling all of them.   :-\

Congratulations to Andra who did achieve their goal!

I'd like to congratulate Andra too, of course!  I can't believe it wasn't the first thing I said.  I'm so glad you finally reached this goal and feel right in your body!   ;D

Dear Kinkly,

Actually I am not sure where I fit on the gender spectrum.  Medically I would be an androgyne but I am not sure of my classification.  Therefore I did not vote so that I do not mess up your statistics.  If I voted it would be "yes other". 

I did find the comments very interesting on your thread.

I do find the social pressure to perform "as expected" in your birth gender unbearable.  However since I do my best to hide my feelings from the outer world, I am unable to find where I fit or what would make me comfortable.

I have medically/chemically induced breasts and have for the most part permanently removed my beard.  These seem the correct decisions for me.  In public I present only as male and have not done any surgeries.  Since the social consequences of sharing my secrets with the world will be significant I continue to hide how I feel.  Therefore I remain unsure if I am both a male and female hence an adrogyne, or a female with a male body. 

Wow Wendy.

I always thought you'd go all the way. Interesting.

Quote from: Rebis on August 11, 2008, 10:49:42 AM

Wow Wendy.

I always thought you'd go all the way. Interesting.

Oh Rebis.  You know I'm a good girl and only bad girls go all the way! :angel:

Actually I always thought my wife would give me the boot.  We have a very unusual relationship at this point but we are actually close friends.  I am asexual and she is "not a lesbian".

If my wife and I divorced last year I would have taken a trip abroad and been TS regardless of it being correct or not.  I do not need the permission of some American whitecoat to be a girl.  I certainly am not a guy even though the world thinks I am a guy.

However my wife and I love each other and she can accept me being TG as long as I hide it.  If I can not hide it I will need to leave to protect the family from danger. 

Here is an interesting note I read on this site from a TS: "All TS must at one point pass through being an androgyne."

I am really trying hard to put my life back together.  I may never find where my gender lies because if I do any more I can not hide my differences.  I will continue taking the hormones because they make me feel better.

W

Quote from: Wendy on August 11, 2008, 09:41:55 PM

Here is an interesting note I read on this site from a TS: "All TS must at one point pass through being an androgyne."

that shows more that the ts didn't understand androgynes then. because the ts person always knew what gender they were, they just passed through an androgynous phase.

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 12, 2008, 01:12:45 AM

Quote from: Wendy on August 11, 2008, 09:41:55 PM

Here is an interesting note I read on this site from a TS: "All TS must at one point pass through being an androgyne."

that shows more that the ts didn't understand androgynes then. because the ts person always knew what gender they were, they just passed through an androgynous phase.

it also seems like the think it is only a parsing phase for some it is but others its a destination

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 12, 2008, 01:12:45 AM

Quote from: Wendy on August 11, 2008, 09:41:55 PM

Here is an interesting note I read on this site from a TS: "All TS must at one point pass through being an androgyne."

that shows more that the ts didn't understand androgynes then. because the ts person always knew what gender they were, they just passed through an androgynous phase.

Pica thank you for that clarification!  I am now androgynous but I may or may not be an androgyne.  At the SCC last year I overheard people asking each other if I was male or female.  They decided "he is androgynous".  Now I understand their comments.

O.K. therefore it was good that I did not vote since I am androgynous but not necessarily an adrogyne.

I also read on this site from an androgyne that a genetic male can be not male in their mind and believe in a binary system and conclude they must therefore be female.  However it is possible to transition to female and then feel they are not female.  This would be an androgyne.

I also read from a TS that you know if you are a female.  I asked how do you know and they replied oh you just know.

These thoughts go around and around in my head tormenting me.  I think the only way for me to find out would be to "test" these things.  However if I test much more, then my wife says I can leave.  I also would not be able to ever find gainful employment again if I present as two genders.

I have an inclination to believe I am MTF but maybe my analysis is not correct.

Thanks for clarifying the distinction between androgynous and androgyne.  In mathematical terms we would say an androgyne is androgynous but an androgynous person does not have to be an androgyne.

W