Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I want to kill this person, it seems like the only appropriate thing to do. The pregnant "man" who gave birth.

by John Doe
_____@gmail.com
    * Age: 32
    * Gender: Male
    * Astrological Sign: Sagittarius
    * Zodiac Year: Rabbit
    * Industry: Telecommunications
    * Occupation: Sprint/Nextel Blackberry Support
    * Location: Des Moines : Iowa : United States
About Me
I'm just a guy, I like flirting and hanging out with hot girls and even not-so-hot girls, I like friends and family and my cat Kittles.
Which is more important to you and why: flexibility or expandability?
Both if she's hot.

Quote[The American media, God bless 'em, make me sick.
They are giving all sorts of attention to this confused mental patient in need of a mental hospital bitch who turned herself into a guy, and then had a baby, via emergency c-section.
They shouldn't let her raise the kid because she's obviously a nut-job who can't accept reality.
There are some things people just are not.
She, for instance, is not a man.
Rather than dealing with that reality like a normal person, she had a penis built and had her boobs removed (which should be a capitol offense, punishable by death, in itself because boobies are sacred) and became a "man", although a man that has a flawed sense of reality and no perception of logic or ability to accept responsibility or disappointment.
In other words, still a woman.
Princess complex with a penis.

---

The link to the original blog is:
http://beastshepherd.blogspot.com/2008/07/i-want-to-kill-this-person-it-seems.html

I had intended it to be a part of the original topic posting.  However, something went wrong in making a graphic into the link to the original blog.  I skipped a step, thinking I'd already completed it, or omitted an equals-sign to link the blog URL to the BBS URL tag, and didn't catch it.  I then left the house for fourth-of-July festivities...

Without that link, yes, my post did look like an outing of the writer of that screed.  It had the appearance of supplying personal information I'd obtained by nefarious means for the purpose of harassment.  That was not my intent.  But in the public affairs business, perception is reality.  I stand guilty for what you determined my intent to be from the evidence in that initial post, and offer my deepest apologies for the distress it caused you.

Please, forgive me;

Karen

Interesting.

With just a few changes, those words could be used to describe Mr Waters.

Example:

Quote from: Leiandra[The American media, God bless 'em, make me sick.
They are giving all sorts of attention to this confused mental patient in need of a mental hospital imbecile who turned himself into a laughing stock, and then had a total eclipse of the head, via the medium of opening his mouth.
They shouldn't let him raise his voice because he's obviously a nut-job who can't accept reality.
There are some things people just are not.
He, for instance, is not living on the same planet as everyone else.
Rather than dealing with that reality like a normal person, he had a know-it-all attitude built and had his brains removed (which should be a capitol offense, punishable by death, in itself because intelligence is sacred) and became a "moron", although a moron that has a flawed sense of reality and no perception of logic or ability to accept responsibility or other people.
In other words, still an idot.
Superiority complex from a dick.

 Haha, that gave me a good laugh,  Leiandra!  :laugh:

Uhm, giving out peoples full names and photo, even if they have stupid opinions about us is not right. Even tho he's obviously an idiot, we have freedom of speech. I think it would be better if you removed his full name and photo, and perhaps even gave us a link to wear he wrote this.

After defecating his little pellets in the open, that rabbit should bolt back into his cosy little hole where he can feel smug and secure.  :D

LLL&R

Maebh

c'mon you guys!  This poor shlub has absolutely nothing going for him.  Look at the picture.  He has the sex appeal of a potato!  Thomas Beatie is handsome even when pregnant.  No question about which one I'd sleep with!  :laugh:

Quote from: Drik on July 04, 2008, 08:11:01 PM
Uhm, giving out peoples full names and photo, even if they have stupid opinions about us is not right. Even tho he's obviously an idiot, we have freedom of speech. I think it would be better if you removed his full name and photo, and perhaps even gave us a link to wear he wrote this.

I'll have to second this opinion.  People still have a right to their opinions even if they are bigots. Posting this kind of information amounts to little more than the lists some sites post with information of doctors who perform abortions hoping that someone else will do their dirty work for them. Giving no actual link to the statement makes it pure hearsay also which is even worse.  :\

I'm looking into your concerns JC and Drik...

I edited out the personal info, Lynn just beat me to the punch on posting hehe..

The griping about 'The pregnant "man" ' thing really irks me too... "man" my ass.. I hate the gender police. :(  He's a man, and he got pregnant....  why does that bother people so much..

because it's not their definition of normal, dear. or did you forget that... :D


Warrior Princess Mickie

Quote from: Alison on July 05, 2008, 12:49:11 AM
I edited out the personal info, Lynn just beat me to the punch on posting hehe..

AWWWWWWWW!! *pouts* thanks a lot, Alison!! Now I can't go through with my brilliant plan of having pizzas that he did not order sent to his house around the clock.  :D

I disagree about people having the right to voice this kind of opinion.  In the US, the SC has recognized that freedom of speech does not extend to "fighting words."  This type of hate speech should not be permitted.

I'm didnt say that it should be permitted.
What I meant is that.. giving out peoples full names and email isnt the proper way of dealing with this.
It is childish and makes us no better than him.

I agree about re-publishing it here, Drik; but, he does post the info on his blog. Perhaps he wants his own "15 minutes of fame" in a way?

Karen didn't have to do any sleuthing to find it, one click on the profile give's you exactly what was seen here. He, in that case, is the moron, as though it wasn't evident from his blog.

Of course he may actually WANT trans-people of all sorts replying to him at his email, or searching reverse addy directories for his town in Iowa to visit him at home. Who knows?

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on July 05, 2008, 02:25:03 PM
I agree about re-publishing it here, Drik; but, he does post the info on his blog. Perhaps he wants his own "15 minutes of fame" in a way?

See, I didnt even know that
cause there was no link to his blog included in the first message.
The photolink was just "http:///"

Still dont think its right tho.

Freedom of speech ain't got anything to do with the issue of posting his info here.  Giving out personal info isn't right regardless.  whether or not he should be allowed to say it is completely seperate.

And him posting the info on his blog isn't quite the same as posting here.  I doubt he's had 250 people viewing it, let alone people who would find him offensive.
Come to think of that, posting his comments here has probably given him a much larger audience than he's used to.

Google Mistress that I am, I found his blog.

Quote from:  Claire's comment to the OP blogBeattie is not the first man to do this.  I know of several trans-couples where the father bore the child conceived of the mother's sperm. 

What I can't understend is why you care.  The Beatties have broken no law; no people or property were damaged.  Don't people have the right to live their lives in the manner they choose?  You say you're a father as am I.  I'm guessing you share with me the memory of the incomparable joy that comes with the birth of your child.  Why would you deny Thomas Beattie that same experience?

Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 06, 2008, 05:53:07 PM

Quote from: Diane on July 06, 2008, 05:13:57 PM
Just imagine what this poor , poor child will have to go through growing up and for it's entire life. I find it REPOLSIVE REPULSIVE.

You're worse than John Doe in the original post.  At least he didn't turn on his own kind!

Um... maybe she was saying she finds the abuse levied on the child's father repulsive, not the choice of the guy to transition.

The link to the original blog is:
http://beastshepherd.blogspot.com/2008/07/i-want-to-kill-this-person-it-seems.html

I had intended it to be a part of the original topic posting.  However, something went wrong in making a graphic into the link to the original blog.  I skipped a step, thinking I'd already completed it, or omitted an equals-sign to link the blog URL to the BBS URL tag, and didn't catch it.  I then left the house for fourth-of-July festivities...

Without that link, yes, my post did look like an outing of the writer of that screed.  It had the appearance of supplying personal information I'd obtained by nefarious means for the purpose of harassment.  That was not my intent.  But in the public affairs business, perception is reality.  I stand guilty for what you determined my intent to be from the evidence in that initial post, and offer my deepest apologies for the distress it caused you.

Please, forgive me;

Karen

Where did he get the ECS from? When the article he quotes expressly mentions that the delivery wasn't by Caesarian section. Proving that his thinking is as sloppy as is reading... or conversely!

LLL&R

Maebh

Quote from: Karen on July 06, 2008, 06:48:59 PM
The link to the original blog is:
http://beastshepherd.blogspot.com/2008/07/i-want-to-kill-this-person-it-seems.html

I had intended it to be a part of the original topic posting.  However, something went wrong in making a graphic into the link to the original blog.  I skipped a step, thinking I'd already completed it, or omitted an equals-sign to link the blog URL to the BBS URL tag, and didn't catch it.  I then left the house for fourth-of-July festivities...

Without that link, yes, my post did look like an outing of the writer of that screed.  It had the appearance of supplying personal information I'd obtained by nefarious means for the purpose of harassment.  That was not my intent.  But in the public affairs business, perception is reality.  I stand guilty for what you determined my intent to be from the evidence in that initial post, and offer my deepest apologies for the distress it caused you.

Please, forgive me;

Karen

Apology accepted! 

While i still think that the posting of the photo and email publicly did cross a line.  Knowing now that the thread title and first sentence of the post were from the actual blog takes much of the percieved nefariousness out of the picture.

It is a nice thing to see someone in an administrative position owning up to their mistakes and attempting to make things right. Thanks karen.  ^^

There's always a "nutjob" willing to create controversy.  If there is no response to them what happens?

Cindi

well, I flagged the blog. ^^

Can you clarify some thing for me?

If I understand the story, there's this woman who's had a sex change to turn herself into a man, who has since met and married a woman. They wanted a child, but his "wife" couldn't have any, so he got pregnant, carried it for nine months or so, and then gave birth via c-section.

I think that's the general gist of the story

But, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process. In which case, and I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere it's possible to implant an embryo on the large intestine where it'll grow and develop normally, but require a C-section to give birth.

If that was how he got pregnant, couldn't they of done that to his "wife"?

Or am I just missing the point?


Posted on: 07-07-2008, 13:55:44

---

Quote from: Cindi Jones on July 06, 2008, 11:34:39 PM
There's always a "nutjob" willing to create controversy.  If there is no response to them what happens?

Cindi

if no one made mistakes, no one will learn anything.

Shazz,

He kept his female parts and was artifically inseminated. He gave birth through his vagina.

Quote from: shazz on July 07, 2008, 08:00:02 AM


But, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process. In which case, and I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere it's possible to implant an embryo on the large intestine where it'll grow and develop normally, but require a C-section to give birth.

If that was how he got pregnant, couldn't they of done that to his "wife"?

Or am I just missing the point?

I know a number of FtMs that opt not to have the bottom surgery.  It's expensive, dangerous and T generally renders one sterile.

About the intestine thing; I thought I was the only one who'd heard that story!  But, yeah, I saw it in some newspaper eons ago.

Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 07, 2008, 09:46:56 AM
I know a number of FtMs that opt not to have the bottom surgery.  It's expensive, dangerous and T generally renders one sterile.

In Europe (at least Norway, Sweden, Netherlands and Belgium) hysterectomy is obligated.
You cannot get a new gender marker without having one. In Sweden and Norway,
you'll also get a new social security number (they are gendered). Its common in Norway to do the mastectomy and the hysterectomy at the same time. Oh yeah, I guess I should mention that all the surgeries here are covered.

Quote from: shazz on July 07, 2008, 08:00:02 AM
But, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process. In which case, and I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere it's possible to implant an embryo on the large intestine where it'll grow and develop normally, but require a C-section to give birth.

If that was how he got pregnant, couldn't they of done that to his "wife"?

I've read something like that as well, where a foetus can develop outside of a womb, but its really risky cos the baby could damage vital organs.  I don't think its been done by implant though for that reason or at least not in significant numbers, (it can occur naturally though).

Quote from: Drik on July 07, 2008, 10:37:12 AM

Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 07, 2008, 09:46:56 AM
I know a number of FtMs that opt not to have the bottom surgery.  It's expensive, dangerous and T generally renders one sterile.

In Europe (at least Norway, Sweden, Netherlands and Belgium) hysterectomy is obligated.
You cannot get a new gender marker without having one. In Sweden and Norway,
you'll also get a new social security number (they are gendered). Its common in Norway to do the mastectomy and the hysterectomy at the same time. Oh yeah, I guess I should mention that all the surgeries here are covered.

Sounds like a good news, bad news thing.  Remember, the United States is nominaly 1 country.  In fact it's 50 small countries and each one has its own set of rules.  The federal government has some authority but the day-to-day laws we live under are made and enforced by the states.  In California the law is one must ave had some kind of "gender enhancing surgery".  That can mean a number of things.  Mastectomy for a FtM would definately meet the legal requirements.  It's ultimately upto the judge listening to the petition.

I don't know much about the medical aspects of this so I am not qualified to state an opinion.
But...

I want to kill this person, it seems like the only appropriate thing to do.

The sentence above is what concerns me.
Where will it end if we get a mind frame where we decide who is worthy to live and who is not?
And quite frankly, I am offended with that.
My road has been one of many possibilities, stops and self analyzations along the way that still hasn't had a final determination.
At what point along that path would I or anyone living in like manner be deemed worthy of a bullet or back-alley stabbing?

DH

Quote from: DH on July 07, 2008, 10:01:54 PM
I don't know much about the medical aspects of this so I am not qualified to state an opinion.
But...

I want to kill this person, it seems like the only appropriate thing to do.

The sentence above is what concerns me.
Where will it end if we get a mind frame where we decide who is worthy to live and who is not?
And quite frankly, I am offended with that.
My road has been one of many possibilities, stops and self analyzations along the way that still hasn't had a final determination.
At what point along that path would I or anyone living in like manner be deemed worthy of a bullet or back-alley stabbing?

DH

I worry about it too, luv. When someone feels entitled to title their blog that way and then publish it at a place like WordPress, well, it's pretty much too bold. Nice I suppose that Mr. Russell outs himself in his own sense of entitlement, but that he has such feelings is really just beyond the pale imo.

Hugs,

Nichole

Quote from: jenny_ on July 07, 2008, 06:42:50 PM

Quote from: shazz on July 07, 2008, 08:00:02 AM
But, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process. In which case, and I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere it's possible to implant an embryo on the large intestine where it'll grow and develop normally, but require a C-section to give birth.

If that was how he got pregnant, couldn't they of done that to his "wife"?

I've read something like that as well, where a foetus can develop outside of a womb, but its really risky cos the baby could damage vital organs.  I don't think its been done by implant though for that reason or at least not in significant numbers, (it can occur naturally though).

I believe that's called an ectopic pregnancy, and it usually happens when the embryo lodges in the Fallopian tubes.  As you said, it can be dangerous for the mother.

Theoretically, you can implant the embryo just about anywhere in the body where it'll have a sufficient blood supply and room to grow - even into a genetic male, although no one is sure what effect the differing hormonal balance will have on the embryo's development.

If a workable process for implanting embryos in genetic males is developed, I'm sure a lot of M2F's (myself included) will be very happy girls.

Well you learn something everyday!

Reading your replies reminded me of a programme I saw on television a long time ago (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth or just before), I think it was called the "show me show", it was a weekly science type programme.

One week they just happened to mention male pregnancy and how the embryo could be implanted and so on. I think they said the "father" will need estrogen injections, and since testosterone will mess things up they'll have to come off.

Quote from: Nephie on July 07, 2008, 10:26:09 PM

If a workable process for implanting embryos in genetic males is developed, I'm sure a lot of M2F's (myself included) will be very happy girls.

I'm not sure about that; some women will hate you, since you'll be pregnant with out a womb, which means no menstrual cycle (which I've heard is a pain).

Over the years I've heard a lot about pregnancy, everything from pregnancy as prove of the existence of God (who but a divine creator could make something so miraculous?) even God exists, he's a man and he hates women (if God was a woman, the men will get pregnant).

I heard women describe pregnancy as "the greatest feeling in the world", "The feeling you get from knowing you've got a new life growing inside you is the greatest in the world". There again I've heard pregnancy is horrible, back pains, morning sickness, swollen ankles, strange cravings, mood swings, lack of energy, morning sickness (I know I've said it twice, but, I've heard its so bad I thought I better say it twice), non-stop trips to the toilet (or the john).

I could go on, but if I don't stop I'll end up with a novel.

Then there's childbirth, which you'll skip by having a C-section, I heard it's like pushing a melon through an opening the size of a lemon and feels like you pushing a porcupine out back wards. I heard childbirth is the most physically and emotionally demanding experience a human body can do through. Why any woman would willingly give birth more then once I do not know other then my last sentence.

I've heard no matter how bad pregnancy was, how painful or long childbirth was, as soon as you see your child for the first time, it all seems worth it.

this I think is getting of the thread, so I'll shut up

Shazz

Back on topic, I just can't understand the mindset of these frothing idiots who think complete strangers are obligated to accept their authority.  Just what is so hard about respecting the life, liberty, and property of others?  Why do all the rules of polite society go out the window when people are faced with something different?

It seems similar in kind (but certainly not degree) to that phenomenon where perfectly normal people become blithering idiots around computers - "Yeah, the power is out across the neighborhood, but what's that have to do with why the PC isn't running?"  How do they suddenly forget that electronic devices need electricity to work?  They know that a PC is electronic, so how do the normal rules get suspended?

Or, how about the people who don't know their way around power tools*, and get scared & back away when they're in use nearby?  "Someone might get hurt!"  Really?  How?  Why?  Since when is ignorance a sound basis for judgment?  At the risk of sounding like an Objectivist, people really need to check their premises more often.

"So, what is the minimum safe distance for ignorance?"
"You know, I''m not really sure."
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff200/fv00168.htm (http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff200/fv00168.htm)

*Or guns, at the risk of being divisive >:D

Quote from: shazz on July 07, 2008, 08:00:02 AMThey wanted a child, but his "wife" couldn't have any, so he got pregnant, carried it for nine months or so, and then gave birth via c-section.

Most of this has already been covered, but just to clarify...

Thomas Beattie and his wife are legally married, as he legally changed his sex.  She's not a "wife".

You are correct that she could not get pregnant, due to a hysterectomy for medical reasons some time ago, this is why she could not carry the child.

Also, the child was delivered vaginally.

QuoteBut, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process.

Nope, as has already been stated, this process is expensive, dangerous, and often with very unsatisfying results.  It is often not done, and not necessary for a legal sex change in the U.S.


As to the post which started this thread, I left a very polite post telling him that he's an ->-bleeped-<-. :)

I don't hate Tom. I do think Tom is a bit more disturbed than most transmen, though.

Now, Tom did what SOME men would do if they could. His wife couldn't carry, so he did it for her. But it wasn't just that. Tom's got other problems, too. I know I personally could never carry a child. But that doesn't make me more of a "man" than Tom. I think what might make me more of a man is that I wouldn't have exploited my condition for the tabloids. Tom has ruined the privacy of his life, his wife, and his child. That was a very irresponsible thing to do.

As for what this person in the blog says-- MORON!
I do not have trouble dealing with reality. That's not what having a sex change is about. Having a sex change IS about dealing with the CONFUSING reality of my situation. The fact is, I am internally a man, and my body says otherwise. It takes some real wit, intuition, and honesty for a transgendered person to accept their gender, and realize it is different from their sex. There is nothing EASY about that, male, female, or whatever.

The person reading the article is ignorant. Tom did not have complete bottom surgery. That is why Tom was able to carry a child.

Also, I have a question. Someone said removing the womb can be a problem. Why? I thought at least removing my ovaries would help me so I wouldn't have to fight the estrogen in my body.

As for MtFs having children, I have no problem with it. But after they do that research, I'd like them to figure out how I can have a kid. :P I mean, transmen can't produce male gametes without having bone marrow removed.

...Guess I'll be going to Sweden! I spoke to some people at a LGBT meeting and I was told most surgeries are done out of the US.

And just to be a little anal on the issue, I don't like this "woman turning into a man" talk. I personally don't feel like a woman who's becoming a man.

Quote from: Elwood on July 11, 2008, 10:25:45 PM
I don't hate Tom. I do think Tom is a bit more disturbed than most transmen, though.

Now, Tom did what SOME men would do if they could. His wife couldn't carry, so he did it for her. But it wasn't just that. Tom's got other problems, too. I know I personally could never carry a child. But that doesn't make me more of a "man" than Tom. I think what might make me more of a man is that I wouldn't have exploited my condition for the tabloids. Tom has ruined the privacy of his life, his wife, and his child. That was a very irresponsible thing to do.

I think that is EXACTLY what a man would do.  Mr. Beattie will be rewarded with several $100,000 in royalties from his book and fees for speaking engagements.  Being a father is all about providing for the safety and security of one's family.  This is a major step in that direction.  The public will soon forget about Thomas Beattie; half of them probably already have.  10 years from now there will be a news segment "Whatever Happened to...", about this.

Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 12, 2008, 02:31:32 AM

Quote from: Elwood on July 11, 2008, 10:25:45 PM
I don't hate Tom. I do think Tom is a bit more disturbed than most transmen, though.

Now, Tom did what SOME men would do if they could. His wife couldn't carry, so he did it for her. But it wasn't just that. Tom's got other problems, too. I know I personally could never carry a child. But that doesn't make me more of a "man" than Tom. I think what might make me more of a man is that I wouldn't have exploited my condition for the tabloids. Tom has ruined the privacy of his life, his wife, and his child. That was a very irresponsible thing to do.

I think that is EXACTLY what a man would do.  Mr. Beattie will be rewarded with several $100,000 in royalties from his book and fees for speaking engagements.  Being a father is all about providing for the safety and security of one's family.  This is a major step in that direction.  The public will soon forget about Thomas Beattie; half of them probably already have.  10 years from now there will be a news segment "Whatever Happened to...", about this.

His actions have nothing to do with him being a man.  Lots of people exploit their conditions or unusual personal situations to get money from the tabloids and book sales, both men and women.  I wouldn't have done what Tom did, but thats just me, it doesn't say anything about my gender.

Providing for the family being a man's job is a very old-fashioned view.

Quote from: jenny_ on July 12, 2008, 11:33:27 AM


His actions have nothing to do with him being a man.  Lots of people exploit their conditions or unusual personal situations to get money from the tabloids and book sales, both men and women.  I wouldn't have done what Tom did, but thats just me, it doesn't say anything about my gender.

Providing for the family being a man's job is a very old-fashioned view.

So, I'm a very old fashioned kind of father.  I won't lose any sleep over it.

Meh. I'd say they were well off enough. I don't think this was his way of "being the man" and "providing" for the family. He was a pussy (excuse my language) for not standing up for himself and EARNING to provide for his wife and child. It's what a dumb man would do. And women do it too. Like the ladies who say, "OMG, I had an affair with this senator 10 years ago, give me money."

Quote from: Elwood on July 12, 2008, 01:09:46 PM
Meh. I'd say they were well off enough. I don't think this was his way of "being the man" and "providing" for the family. He was a pussy (excuse my language) for not standing up for himself and EARNING to provide for his wife and child. It's what a dumb man would do. And women do it too. Like the ladies who say, "OMG, I had an affair with this senator 10 years ago, give me money."

Unless you're Warren F-ing Buffet, you don't have enough!  Thomas Beattie can create and support his family any way he chooses.  Who are you to pass judgement on him?  He's a man who's making it in this world as the person he wants to be.  Can you make the same claim?

You do make a valid point, Ms. Claire.

Although, I just don't see why any man would want to be famous because he used to be a woman. I know I wouldn't. But if that's what Tom wants, then I guess that's what Tom gets, right? Being his own man, it's up to him to make his own choices (and mistakes).