Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Should Transgender(used as a blanket term) people move from a hostile area for safety or stay because how else is that community learn to accept TG people? OK I been thinking about this a little well because Tennessee  has been in the news a lot lately with violence against transgender people.

Also I'm a TS and feel that won't I completely pass as woman when the time comes to go full time. So this would this affect how you feel about staying in an area?

Anna

I voted to move -- It seems to me that lowering your risk of being on the receiving end of discrimination and violence is an important survival step.

But be advised moving is not without risk.  I spoke to a transwoman last evening who had moved to San Francisco.  Although the City's tolerance of transgender is legendary, she had been unemployed since arriving a few years ago, she said.  I thought she passed well, btw.

Karen

Quote from: Karen on July 27, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
I voted to move -- It seems to me that lowering your risk of being on the receiving end of discrimination and violence is an important survival step.

But be advised moving is not without risk.  I spoke to a transwoman last evening who had moved to San Francisco.  Although the City's tolerance of transgender is legendary, she had been unemployed since arriving a few years ago, she said.  I thought she passed well, btw.

Karen

I also voted to move.  There is a reason queer folk flock to major urban areas; there is community and tolerance.

For those coming to San Francisco the thing you need to understand is the labor market is highly competitive.  Our major industries are banking and finance, technology and bio-tech.  All require a high level of education.  The workforce here is highly educated also.  There are a dozen universities and institutes churning out new graduates every year.  If you don't have skills or a lot of ambition it can be hard here.

On the plus side it's a flecking awesome place to live!  :laugh:

Move!  Claire is spot on what you need if you are planning to move here (San Francisco).  This city is expensive, particularly rent.  Some of us are extremely lucky to be old tenants and be living in a decent neighborhood.  So before you move to the city by the bay, get a college degree because lousy wages won't do you any good here.

tink :icon_chick:

P.S.  and yes, there's no place like home!  :P

Do whatever you have to do to be safe and enjoy your new life. You deserve it.

~Kate~

I think one should move if the environment seems dangerous enough to warrant the trouble of doing so but I feel that one should go by actual evidence rather than assumptions on how they might pass or be accepted if they don't.

I live in a small city, with less than 35,000 inhabitants.  The newspaper is unabashedly Republican.  We have a great deal of churches of various denominations, some accepting, most are very conservative, even hateful.  When I transitioned I expected to receive a great deal of trouble and discrimination.

But it didn't happen!

Yes, I experienced a few snide remarks and snickers from some young people and my former employer was discriminatory in how they applied health care benefits but these things could happen in the most accepting places as well.  The point is, if the discrimination and prejudice are real, experienced events, and if they prove to be frightening enough, then by all means, move.  But, as I said to my spouse this afternoon, give people the opportunity to do the right thing before you judge them by assuming they would do the worst.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

I say move. I think hatred is not a rational thing. You won't change it by being there. But you can change it by being a part of an accepting community and keep growing that community until it becomes the norm - change the lowest hanging fruit first.

I voted for move, but i really think it depends on your situation, and you should do whats right for you.

And imo nobody has a duty to stay in a community just to try and make it more tolerant, especially if it involves a lot of sacrifices.  Looking after yourself is more important.

Get out of there if you can. Don't risk it.

This is something I have been struggling with myself. I live in a very rural and very very redneck county in the south. I love my home and many things about where I live( the forest, the fact folks around here don't have to lock their doors, Etc.. ) but its not a good place to be "different". I have had several folks say some mean and nasty things to me while out shopping in the closest small town to me. :(  At this point I just live here I shop at a city about 30 mins away and the few friends I have live  in towns over a hour from here. Honestly I want to move in someways since I spend most of my time alone and have yet to meet anyone around here to hang out with. With the housing market like it is I just can't sell my place for enough to pay off the mortgage so I guess I am stuck for now regardless of how I feel.
K

I cannot pick one of those three choices.  The decision to move or not depends on whether you feel safe or not.  Your safety comes first always.  This I learned from my Women's Self-Defense classes.

No place is completely safe (without any form of hostility) - even if you're sis-gendered...

That said, some regional areas are more liberal than others.  Typically, it appears the more rural, the more uneducated, and therefor the more fearful the people are. However, there are some small towns that can be found as more accepting, such as depicted in The Sopranos (the town (http://www.reason.com/blog/show/119882.html) that Vito "vacationed" in), or Gernville/Monte Rio (http://www.russianrivertravel.com/gay/).
 
In all, if you don't "sport the colors" of the neighborhood you're in, maybe you're in the wrong neighborhood.  Personally, I like living in an area where people are open, educated, and supportive, rather than ignorant, closed-minded, and abusive.

If you have to ask, I'd say leave.

Guerneville and Monte Rio are rural, but they are rural parts of Sonoma County, California, an extremely liberal place - and in that reflect more of Sonoma nature than a rural nature.  Both were also, BTW, big countercultural places back in the hippie days, with Morningstar just outside of Guerneville, and Wheeler Ranch in the hills between Monte Rio and the Pacific.  One section of Monte Rio, called Camp Meeker was a total hippie encampment just a few miles away from the Bohemian Grove (yes, that Bohemian Grove) so strange neighbors for sure.  In its current incarnation Guerneville is a major gay resort destination. So they are not similar to rural towns in real rural areas.

But, as was said above, the SF Bay Area is expensive (though wages are a bit higher than other places too) and the job market is extremely competitive - if not a bit dog-eat-dog - as a lot of people want to live here for various reasons.

You know, there are plenty of other places other than SF. ;) Almost anywhere is better than the South.

But even in the classic South I know people who lived in pre-Katrina New Orleans who loved it and a lot in the Miami-Dade-Keys places too.  I think that the West Coast, Seattle to San Diego is pretty liberal and livable, but the Northeast corridor is pretty good also.

Quote from: tekla on July 28, 2008, 04:06:16 PM
But even in the classic South I know people who lived in pre-Katrina New Orleans who loved it and a lot in the Miami-Dade-Keys places too.  I think that the West Coast, Seattle to San Diego is pretty liberal and livable, but the Northeast corridor is pretty good also.

I would add Austin TX to the list of cool places to live, too.

Always loved Austin, on the other hand, it is surrounded by Texas.  But Houston has a huge gay population, and I'm sure that many TG persons live in part of Texas that are not Austin and get along fine.  And, though its got that glossy bleeding hearts and artists deal, SF has a lot of not liberal artists types too.  No place is 100%.

Quote from: Ellie's Lisbeff on July 28, 2008, 08:39:54 AM
I cannot pick one of those three choices.  The decision to move or not depends on whether you feel safe or not.  Your safety comes first always.  This I learned from my Women's Self-Defense classes.

There is now that choice on the poll.

Anna

I live in a subdivision on a fairly large property, with some space between neighbors.  By and large (why do people say that?), my neighbors only notice that Marcy has a woman living with her, and don't ask about Mike.  When I'm doing yard work, and it looks like an old neighbor is watching too closely, trying to make a decision, I throw a twig or something, perfectly girly-style, then they turn away. Girl face, earrings, women's tops and skirt, boobs, butt, etc equals girl.  They just mind their business.
If I felt we were certainly physically in danger, we would move, of course.

Bev

I know for me, there are areas, well, most, of this country, which I would not live in.  I grew up in Sonoma County, CA, and there are places in CA I wouldn't live either. :P

The bay area is nice (Oakland is entirely under rated, there are some really NICE areas, I live there now), but San Francisco is over rated.  It's great, don't get me wrong, but, it's also over rated.  It's so expensive to live there and the job market is not spectacular.  Oakland is a bit better job market wise, and WAY cheaper to live. 

I saw someone mention Guerneville, I LOVE Guerneville.  LOVE.

But you know where my hubby and I really enjoyed living, was Seattle.  And I've heard very good things about Portland (including from trans friends).  Seattle's job market is also considerably better (relatively speaking) than California right now.

I'm not comfortable telling people they need to just up and move...That's a big and expensive decision and not everyone can.  But if you have the means?  I would if it were me, yah.

I agree with Karen, take your abilities and contributions to society elsewhere if that is a possibility. I also have to agree that even in areas where its better for us, its not perfect. I pass well enough and, due to the 'street economy' rep for our community, was asked if I was 'working'.... At SF Pride no less. However, I would take liberal California over most of the southern areas just by reputation. Safety is basic need.

Quote from: Karen on July 27, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
I voted to move -- It seems to me that lowering your risk of being on the receiving end of discrimination and violence is an important survival step.
But be advised moving is not without risk.  I spoke to a transwoman last evening who had moved to San Francisco.  Although the City's tolerance of transgender is legendary, she had been unemployed since arriving a few years ago, she said.  I thought she passed well, btw.

Yeah I was out just east of Gureneville just yesterday kicking back on the tubes, doing the rope swing, watching the sun through the redwoods and the hawks circle above me.  Near perfect.  Except for doing the 10 mile one way bike ride there (and the 10 miles back), River Road on a bike is murder.  But, its nice to break at Korbel.

Anywhere on the West Coast, near the coast, or the Northwest tend to be OK, but pockets of cool people are everywhere.

Quote from: whatsername on July 30, 2008, 12:05:16 AM
I know for me, there are areas, well, most, of this country, which I would not live in.  I grew up in Sonoma County, CA, and there are places in CA I wouldn't live either. :P

The bay area is nice (Oakland is entirely under rated, there are some really NICE areas, I live there now), but San Francisco is over rated.  It's great, don't get me wrong, but, it's also over rated.  It's so expensive to live there and the job market is not spectacular.  Oakland is a bit better job market wise, and WAY cheaper to live. 

I saw someone mention Guerneville, I LOVE Guerneville.  LOVE.

But you know where my hubby and I really enjoyed living, was Seattle.  And I've heard very good things about Portland (including from trans friends).  Seattle's job market is also considerably better (relatively speaking) than California right now.

I'm not comfortable telling people they need to just up and move...That's a big and expensive decision and not everyone can.  But if you have the means?  I would if it were me, yah.

There really is no accounting for taste.

Since nobody's mentioned this, I recalled that about a year ago a great list was posted by Aeyra discussing TG Friendly States. It was kind of surprising in that states like Illinois, Minnesota, and New Jersey rated tops in TG Friendliness. Do review this string:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e2cnf5qe20n2vrjkfqm0og35t2&topic=16044.0 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e2cnf5qe20n2vrjkfqm0og35t2&topic=16044.0)

I meant for the poll for anyplace that is hostile towards tg and ts not just the south.

for me
What is keeping me in a hostile place(the south)?
Family I would like spend as much time with them before I get shunned.
My mom has deep emotional and financially problems.
My niece she is a baby.
My 8 cats actually their moms but I take care of them.
An unfinished education
I don't have a regular job(I have 15 application out this summer) and very little money which makes moving a little hard.
I do love the weather in Tennessee.

What so bad about it here?
I'm getting older and just want start living my life. I don't think I can do it here.
I live 100 miles from any gender therapist or support group.
Most of the people are nice except for the evil ones which most the nice people ignore their actions.
I can't find a job.
Spiders.
I feel isolated.
I'm get some hateful looks from some people. I don't go out in female mode but I just give a gay vibe to some people.
As for my safety I feel somewhat safe now but if I get outed or go full time I would not feel at all safe.

A place I will never move to is Michigan I was tormented there until I was 15 actually the kids in Tennessee were much nicer than the kids in Michigan.


Here in the south for now but not forever.
Anna

PS
To any mods out there could you add an option for people to change their vote because I added another choice.
Thanks 

I vote to move or stay as to whether or not you feel safe.  Only you can determine if you have to move or not.  Your safety is of paramount importance.

Family ties should not come into account unless you feel that you are safe with them.  Any region of the country can be safe or hostile.

Spiders

Oops, the Bay Area has a huge spider population.  The redwoods in particular are like ground zero for spiders.  Arachnid heavy for sure.

I guess that means bay area out of question because of the spiders. Just kidding but I really can't stand spiders reason I even mention it I had come across what a few in last couple weeks I would let stop me from moving to an area.

Quote from: Kara Lee on July 31, 2008, 04:23:09 PM
Yea, there is a real big reason that I am wanting to move out when/if I can.

I really hope if I move some place more accepting I open up more but I worry that there could be something wrong with me.

Anna

I believe that the decision to move or not move really depends on how a person feels.  We recently made the decision to move not because of my gender, but because 2 thugs and a thugette threated my SO in a department store.

As far as our neighbors, I really am not bothered whether they accept me or not.  It is about a 50-50 split, but then I live in redneck heaven in central Florida

Laura

I voted "depends on whether you feel safe".  Personally, I plan to stick to the more cosmopolitan, liberal areas.  But then, I'm not picking up and leaving friends and family to do so.  For me, having resources close at hand where I know I can get safe medical care, and being where I am unlikely to be beaten to a pulp by my neighbors is important.

I lived in the SF Bay Area for many years, but it just got so expensive that I couldn't even dream of buying a house some day.  So I moved to the Midwest. So far I've found Minneapolis, of all places, to be a pretty trans-friendly place.  In fact, it was the first city to include trans in its anti-discrimination laws, and it has a very active trans-community, with a number of resources specifically for trans-folk.

Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 30, 2008, 11:08:25 PMThere really is no accounting for taste.

Hey c'mon, I said SF was great. :P  But it's hailed as some sort of bastion for "rebels" and as far as that goes I just don't think it's the only one.  It is the second most expensive though!  And there are ways to have access to that (or a similar environment) without actually living in the city itself, which the money issue has to be excluding a good number of people besides myself from.

I transitioned in the south in a small town, and asked myself this question many times. I ended up staying where I was. I had no desire to live in a gay/trans ghetto. I no longer live in the south, but have continued to live in a rural area, which suits my desire for a peaceful, quiet environment.

Z

I said move, but its your choice, because you should do it based on how you feel.  As for trying to make others tolerant, you have no obligation or responsibility to change those people, it would be too much sacrifice on your part for almost no reward.  Sure it might make everyone more tolerant in the long run, but that is happening naturally anyway due to the urban areas.  Soon their backwater ignorant crap will be looked down upon and they will stop eventually.

Me, I moved out of TN, because not only were they not tolerant in the least, but the economy was so bass ackwards that I could go nowhere with my life.  I'm in IA now, and I'm finally starting to get somewhere, about to get electro started in the next weekish, and now have my ears pierced which is neat.

I voted move. Even if you feel physically safe, it's not worth it to stay in a place that still makes you feel bad about yourself, to put up with intolerant behaviour all the time.

I would say that it truly depends on how you feel in the area.

Bottom line, your safety and happiness comes first.

Personnaly, I was told i had better move, because someone like me wouldnt be allowed to live there. Ya know what, I stayed, no one forces me out of my home. Yes, they came for me; Yes, everyone of them i called my freind before; Yes, I showed them why they use to fear me. Its really a personal choice, and staying is not for the faint of hart. In my former male life, I was a canadate for the Olympics for wrestling, and pre-hormones so I could defend myself. I beleive if standing strait and tall no matter what. I should also add I had a death wish back then as well, most of us did before(durring) transition. When death seemed like such a better option than living in shame of who you are. When shame passes so does the wish. I was forged in fire, and I feel am a better person for it. No one can shake me now, exept myself.

My advise is if you get threats, they ARE real, dont dissmiss them. I was lured to a party i wasnt suposto walk away from, a house FULL of people got me good and drunk and tried to kill me.

But remember that intollerance is a child of ignorance, and hate is love in the absence of understanding.
You just being you, and acting like a normal person...Is your greatest weapon.

I saw myself as an ambasitor of trans people, being visable(back then atleast) and always conducted myself as such. I would encourage anyone in this situation to do the same. It is not the for the faint in hart, but if you change one persons mind; isnt that woth it?

congrats, its good to see someone who has been able to withstand, I could not though, and chose to move.  I am happier for it.

If safety is an issue, move.  That is very simple.

If one wishes to get past and stop living in an area where one is known as TG and rather be just a man or woman, move.

For those who recreationally crossdress, and who wish to be out, you may want to find some place more tolererant of that kind of activity.

For those looking at transition, the perceptions of what a hostile enviorment may differ greatly from reality.  For example, areas with low awareness, when one is marginally passable, that person is more likely to be read as they wish as compared to an area where awareness is high.  Where awareness is high one is more likely to be identified as trans.

A small conservative town is more likely to be oblivious to a trans person and just accept that person as any other normal male or female.

A big city may offer a degree of being a face in thousands, but when there is a significant community of trans folk and awareness is high, there are more likely to be people who are out spotting trans folk that might do them harm.  So is that really safer?  Does is really matter if the state has special protections for trans folk?  Does that reduce the chance of violence, or does it perhaps increase awareness at the cost of engendering a backlash?

This is a complex decision.

Personally, I'll take a small town any day.


Posted on: September 06, 2008, 07:54:46 PM

---

One more thought.

Before moving, try staying first.

If you wish to get a clean start...well it helps getting some experience first before up and moving and then worrying about people finding out.  If you get experience living, its much less risky.  Same applies for the job.