Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey boys and girls of all stripes or spots another amusing topic! Don't you love it!
A thread in Spirituality went completely off the rails and begged for a new topic to be posted so here we are!
"God's Plan for me" or some sound ended in a little tussle re: do right-wingers do the gay thing/is that why they are so concerned with the subject. Of course immediately someone on that side of the aisle voiced some vehement objections. Hey!

No poll; no statistics will be compiled.

Bart Simpson in General Bart: "I can't promise you victory, I can't promise you good times. (all recruits make for the exits) Wait! I CAN promise you victory I can PROMISE YOU GOOD TIMES!"

No promise of victory for either side. Just some GOOD TIMES!

The word for this is PROJECTION. Just like Miss Marshall Mathers' sentiments EG: "do I hate ->-bleeped-<-s? the answer's YES" (Transphobia's all up in that riff too, there are def. some folx here remember that one.)

SO: DEFINE HOMOPHOBIA/TRANSPHOBIA et cetera. Why are we some people's worst nightmare?

Quote from: jan c on July 24, 2006, 04:28:51 AM...
SO: DEFINE HOMOPHOBIA/TRANSPHOBIA et cetera. Why are we some people's worst nightmare?

Fear of the unknown.
Or at least, that is my take on the subject.

... does not compute. ;)

Quote from: cindianna_jones on July 24, 2006, 05:28:41 AM

That's right, we actually will wack
off the johnson.

(That's off the hook!)

We can hijack mojor too. Scary stuff.

Cheech and Chong:

"Bailiff! Whack his pee-pee!"

You have inspired me to cite, from Bobby Brown Goes Down, these patriotic sentiments:

(Girl Juice offerer. That's illegal in 9 states, you know that right?)

Women's Liberation
Came a creepin' all across the nation
I tell you people I was not ready
When I ->-bleeped-<-ed this dyke by the name of Freddy
She made a little speech then
Aw she tried to make me say 'when'
She had my balls in a vice but she left the dick
I guess it's still hooked on, but now it shoots too quick

OH GOD I AM THE AMERICAN DREAM
But now I smell like Vaseline
And I'm a miserable son-of-a-bitch
Am I a boy or a lady, I don't know which
Oh God Oh God I'm so fantastic
Thanks to Freddy I'm a sexual spastic
And my name is Bobby Brown
Watch me now, I'm goin' down
And my name is Bobby Brown...


That's right the whole American Dream goes down with Mr Johnson out-of-place like that.
It's a scientific fact.


Posted at: July 24, 2006, 04:34:24 AM

---

All seriousness aside

Kimb, may be that transSEXUALism is an unknown or an X factor to R legislators, but come on. Homosexuality? I bet they've seen that one before at least on cable.

oie, good point!

Um, alright then, I'll call it stupid moralistic blindness then.

Righteous presumption?

That doesn't account for the agnostic lot though.

^*ponders*

Social pressure, caused about by aforementioned moralistic presumption?

I.e. the folks who want to run your life for you.
An the fools who let them.

^*shrug*
Society is weird.

People are afraid of the unknown.  That is why religions exist in the first place.

Quote from: jan c on July 24, 2006, 04:28:51 AM
SO: DEFINE HOMOPHOBIA/TRANSPHOBIA et cetera. Why are we some people's worst nightmare?

What It Feels Like For A Girl
written by Madonna and Guy Sigsworth
-------------------------
Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
'Cause it's OK to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading
But secretly you'd love to know what it's like
Wouldn't you
What it feels like for a girl

We're all humans and we are attracted to other humans (most of us hopefully :)).  Many of the people who are homophobic, were raised that way.  They were taught that a man should be with a woman and 2 of the same shouldn't be together.  However, nature plays a nice little trick and makes some of us attracted to the partners of the same sex and sometimes to partners of both sexes.  I believe that the majority of people are bisexual (perhaps repressed) if they are not outright homosexual and these people tend to be the open-minded ones that are not homophobic.  The homophobes are actually in the minority and they are taught that everyone else thinks as they do.

So, why are they homophobic.  Simple.  They have small closed minds that are taught to be that way.

Melissa

Quote from: Kate on July 24, 2006, 09:21:18 AM


But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading
But secretly you'd love to know what it's like
Wouldn't you
What it feels like for a girl

(Kate that is a fantastically subtle reading of my implication.)

Yes, I think that all 'phobes like this are *CURIOUS/YELLOW*. (at the very least; could be they are already there.) and project that onto the whole of their experience. "WE NEED LEGISLATION. I JUST CAN'T DEAL WITH IT"

Kimb:

"it is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to such a sick society"
Jiddu Krishnamurti

"my brain hurts"
Gumby

Quote from: jan c on July 24, 2006, 11:39:56 AM...
"it is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to such a sick society"
Jiddu Krishnamurti
...

Oh, now those are true words.

Sad, I suppose.

But heck, humanity is young, give them time...

But, I digress.

Quote from: Melissa on July 24, 2006, 11:38:13 AM
Simple.  They have small closed minds that are taught to be that way.

But is it simple?

Sure, fear can be taught. The whole "God" sound is a terrific tool for this.
But for the lesson to stick so amazingly well, maybe there's something internal to really fear.

Another possible explanantion is that it forces them to face their own issues with their sexuality.

Melissa

Quote from: Melissa on July 24, 2006, 11:38:13 AM
We're all humans and we are attracted to other humans (most of us hopefully :)).  Many of the people who are homophobic, were raised that way.  They were taught that a man should be with a woman and 2 of the same shouldn't be together.  However, nature plays a nice little trick and makes some of us attracted to the partners of the same sex and sometimes to partners of both sexes.  I believe that the majority of people are bisexual (perhaps repressed) if they are not outright homosexual and these people tend to be the open-minded ones that are not homophobic.  The homophobes are actually in the minority and they are taught that everyone else thinks as they do.

So, why are they homophobic.  Simple.  They have small closed minds that are taught to be that way.

Melissa

Nice theory, but I have a hard time believing "the majority of people are bisexual (perhaps repressed)", some men and some women are hetero with latent homosexual feelings. True bisexuality is actually rarer than heterosexuality and homosexuality. Also, fantasies are not the same as "repressed homosexuality", you can fantasize about a million crazy things - doesn't mean you'd ever do it, or ever even want to do it in real life.
Ever notice how it's the GLBT community that's always perpetuating the myth that "most or all people are repressed homosexuals or bisexuals"? That's because they think, "I'm gay, therefore everyone must be a closet homosexual."
Please don't be offended by this example, it's the only one I can come up with at the moment.:
It's been noted that serial killers believe "everyone is a repressed serial killer". In other words, everyone really wants to walk around killing people at random, they just don't have the balls. The serial killer thinks, "I am like this, therefore everyone really must be like this."

And before everyone jumps on me for that example, I am not comparing homosexuals with killers. I am a "biological female" who sleeps with other females, I have nothing against gays.

That being said, I do believe bisexuality may be more prevalent amongst transpeople - we do have "mixed brains" after all.

As for homophobia and transphobia - people are prejudiced against the unknown, period.
Think of racism. Racists are not prejudiced because they are afraid they too, might be a minority. They are bigots, plain and simple.

Nero

Quote from: Nero on July 24, 2006, 01:05:09 PM
Nice theory, but I have a hard time believing "the majority of people are bisexual (perhaps repressed)", some men and some women are hetero with latent homosexual feelings. True bisexuality is actually rarer than heterosexuality and homosexuality. Also, fantasies are not the same as "repressed homosexuality", you can fantasize about a million crazy things - doesn't mean you'd ever do it, or ever even want to do it in real life.

Nero, I think this is closer to what I meant.  I guess "have bisexual tendencies/fantasies" would have been a much better term than "bisexual".  I don't think people are necessarily like me, what I said is based on what I've heard many people say.  Perhaps my sampling for this may not be of sufficient size or quality to justify establishing a new scientific principle, but is suits my purposes.

Melissa

I understand, Melissa. It's not really the comments on this thread so much as I'm tired of hearing people say (always GLBT) that bisexuality exists in all humans. I read a ridiculous article last night that stated "All humans are bisexual." It simply isn't true. Another article said "86% of humans are bisexual and 11% are homosexual." What so only 3% are heterosexual? Please.
And these articles were not written by scientists, mind you, they were written by members of the GLBT. Personal opinions stated as fact.

Nero

I wasn't even thinking that high of a percentage when I said most.  I was thinking closer to 55-60%.

Melissa

Quote from: Nero on July 24, 2006, 02:09:31 PM
I understand, Melissa. It's not really the comments on this thread so much as I'm tired of hearing people say (always GLBT) that bisexuality exists in all humans. I read a ridiculous article last night that stated "All humans are bisexual." It simply isn't true. Another article said "86% of humans are bisexual and 11% are homosexual." What so only 3% are heterosexual? Please.
And these articles were not written by scientists, mind you, they were written by members of the GLBT. Personal opinions stated as fact.

Nero

This is also one of the issues that infuriates me, people making statements of fact based on opinion or belief.  I read statements like "Most TS started as CD", where are the facts to back up this claim claim? There are none, as the statement was made based on belief or heresay.  Words are "all", "every", and "most", are porrly used and better substituted by, "many", "several", or often.

Steph

By paraphrase: 'I think that all homophobes have some homo in them.' This is what they are afraid of in the first place.'
I'm standing by that statement 100%.

The implication that many are not seeing here is the classical definition of the word itself.
Phobia is an irrational fear. Unconscious mixed in with the conscious brain.
Fear, actual sensible fear is learned in a different way than fear of something that will not necessarily hurt you. What's so scary about a '->-bleeped-<-' or a '->-bleeped-<-'?
Why's it bug Eminem so damn much?
How's it to do with passing legislation?
What's the DEAL here?

Per a previous topic, Steph you pointed out some C&W singer's songs IMPLIED dude was turning down a ->-bleeped-<- making a pass. It wasn't up front in the lyric, we had to kinda sorta parse that one out.
Dude was not dealing honestly with his ->-bleeped-<--->-bleeped-<- tendency.

That's what it is. That's what I'm saying. Straight up.

It's not even that hard to see, if you look at it without the filter of 'is this a correct thing to say'.


Posted at: July 24, 2006, 01:04:09 PM

---

Quote from: Melissa

Another possible explanation is that it forces them to face their own issues with their sexuality.

Is more subtle, is nicer, is more careful...

I'm trying to hit the nail on the head.

(This is not a scientific analysis. I sardonically addressed that in an earlier post. An argument on scientific accuracy is a little off-topic here.)

Quote from: jan c on July 24, 2006, 03:11:55 PM
By paraphrase: 'I think that all homophobes have some homo in them.' This is what they are afraid of in the first place.'
I'm standing by that statement 100%.

The implication that many are not seeing here is the classical definition of the word itself.
Phobia is an irrational fear. Unconscious mixed in with the conscious brain.
Fear, actual sensible fear is learned in a different way than fear of something that will not necessarily hurt you. What's so scary about a '->-bleeped-<-' or a '->-bleeped-<-'?
Why's it bug Eminem so damn much?
How's it to do with passing legislation?
What's the DEAL here?

Per a previous topic, Steph you pointed out some C&W singer's songs IMPLIED dude was turning down a ->-bleeped-<- making a pass. It wasn't up front in the lyric, we had to kinda sorta parse that one out.
Dude was not dealing honestly with his ->-bleeped-<--->-bleeped-<- tendency.

That's what it is. That's what I'm saying. Straight up.

It's not even that hard to see, if you look at it without the filter of 'is this a correct thing to say'.


Posted at: July 24, 2006, 01:04:09 PM

---

Is more subtle, is nicer, is more careful...

I'm trying to hit the nail on the head.

(This is not a scientific analysis. I sardonically addressed that in an earlier post. An argument on scientific accuracy is a little off-topic here.)

Umm, Jan, I wasn't necessarily talking about homophobes, rather I don't agree with the statements some have made that all or most humans have homo in them. That's the point I was trying to make.
I believe some homophobes are afraid of that, yes. Case in point - my friend who is so adamantly against gay men and so outwardly hostile to them. He panics if any man so much as glances his way. If we see two men together in a restaurant, later he'll swear they were checking him out. He is so uncomfortable with the subject, that I suspect he might indeed have a problem.

But, in general, I just think prejudice is prejudice. People are afraid of anyone who is different.

Nero

I know dude, "most humans", it's somewhat absurd, prima facie.

How did that even get in here.???

Quote from: Nero on July 24, 2006, 03:51:02 PM
Case in point - my friend who is so adamantly against gay men and so outwardly hostile to them. He panics if any man so much as glances his way. If we see two men together in a restaurant, later he'll swear they were checking him out. He is so uncomfortable with the subject, that I suspect he might indeed have a problem.

But, in general, I just think prejudice is prejudice. People are afraid of anyone who is different.

Nero

Ok semantically speaking (pardon moi but you MIGHT see why I'm overstimulated if you go over to blogs. Western Union calls, dude) then: case in point = homophobia.

"People are afraid of anyone who is different" = to me, something more innocuous and/or benign.
FEDERAL LEGISLATION that, for the first time in our history, is designed to limit freedoms, is malignant.
I'm investigating the root of this cancer.

capisce?

Quote from: jan c on July 24, 2006, 03:11:55 PM
By paraphrase: 'I think that all homophobes have some homo in them.' This is what they are afraid of in the first place.'
I'm standing by that statement 100%.

And I agree with you 100% Jan because you qualified your statement with the words "I think", clearly indicating that this is your belief, based on what ever.  If you had said " All homophobes have some homo in them,...." then that would be a different story :)

Quote"People are afraid of anyone who is different" = to me, something more innocuous and/or benign.
FEDERAL LEGISLATION that, for the first time in our history, is designed to limit freedoms, is malignant.
I'm investigating the root of this cancer.

Very true, look at the back lash against muslims world wide.  :)

Steph

Homophobia is an aversion to gay people and their lifestyle or culture. Most people who are homophobic are closeted homosexuals themselves, for they use their hatred as a shield to hide their true sexual preference.


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

Believe it or not, I think it's the "EWWW!" factor in many cases.  Maybe not in the virulent kind of homophobia but in the kind where a straight guy, who happens to see two guys kissing, says, "That's just disgusting."  meaning that HE would never do that and how could anyone else?  Yes, narrow mindedness - or maybe a simple lack of enough imagination to get that someone may actually LIKE to do that sort of thing.  This really was said to me and I answered, "Maybe it feels that way because it's not something you normally see?"  He changed the subject after that.

Never kissed a guy but is beginning to think it may not be all THAT bad
helen

Quote from: cindianna_jones on July 25, 2006, 12:24:58 AM
Girls are better kissers.

Cindi

Yes, I can attest to this. :)

Melissa

And when two of 'em go at it, well it's all about aesthetics isn't it? It might even appear, it could feel, I don't know,  *poetic* when girls display some love.
But there are some who want to stamp that out.

What's that all about?

A lotta authorities around and about.

A lotta sexual frustration can't find no release.

Whole lotta toppin' goin on;

Only it must be called something else.

When some people get a glimpse of the chaos that is the universe,

They find a way to impose some kind of artificial controls on it.

Whether it's the daily intake regimen of food/drink/medicine, what-have-you

Or whether it's the language you can't bear to hear

Or the behavior of others that partially reveals to you your own SIN.

You find a domme

You find a sub or two or three

You define your GOD

accordingly

it's some real sick st*ff

(oops used a bad word, MASKED it, but there it is

Me I'm trying to lose the mask. But that's just me.)