Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So I'm pre-T (due to start in November, hopefully) and I don't shave alot anyways.

But I got to thinking when I am on T, I'm not going to be shaving my legs and under arms. Do you pre-T guys still bother with shaving? Or even post T guys do you still shave (other then your face ofcourse)?

Never have, never will. Haha. :laugh:

No. I only started shaving in middle school cause I'd get harrassed about it. Don't do it anymore. Too itchy.

I shaved my legs in middle school and high school. I wanted to pass as a girl. I did it to avoid being teased.

I stopped shaving my legs... a couple months ago, I think. I stopped shaving under my arms like a week ago, as an experiment. To see where it goes. If it isn't to my satisfaction, I'll start shaving under my arms again. It's irritating right now, the pokey hairs, but I'll give it time to grow out.

When I'm on T, I will also do the same thing. Experiment with the under arms, see if I like it. If I don't, I'll shave 'em. If I don't like having a hairy torso, I might try waxing and see if I like a hairless torso. After comparison, I'll make an educated decision. If I get a lot of hair on my back I'll probably do something about that. It's the one place that hair creeps me out.

I used to also always shave the bikini area. Just like my under arms, I stopped, to experiment. I don't like how it looks, though. I hope with T I'll have a bit more of a trail so i looks more even.

Not anymore. And if you think I'm shaving this beauty of my legs tonight just because I head back to school tomorrow, you're wrong. I don't really care who teases me or asks questions. Not even for gym will I shave this off. The guys don't and believe me, some of thier legs look like forrests.

I do try one thing.

Recently I shaved my thighs. Waiting to see if the hair appears darker. People say it's a myth but...

I'd shave the knees and down when I shaved. I'd avoid the thighs. My thigh hairs were blond and the other hair was darker. So I'm testing to see it it really is just a myth. The hairs are coming back to my thighs, and they appear to be slightly darker. I think it only works the first time, though. I don't think it continues to get darker.

Well I have noticed the hair on my legs to be thicker then before, so it might work. It doesn't hurt to try, and if it's on your thigh, no one will notice.

Pre-T: Haha NO I love all the hair I can get.


But I gave into the peer pressure thing 2 or 3 times vvv I was blatantly ignorant of it til college. I agree.  Too itchy.

Quote from: Nero on September 01, 2008, 06:00:19 PM
No. I only started shaving in middle school cause I'd get harrassed about it. Don't do it anymore. Too itchy.

Dan, when I shaved my calves, the hair came back much longer/thicker than before. But on my thighs for some reason, they came back a lot shorter. In the beginning I thought it was just because they hadn't finished growing back yet, but it's been like three years and the thigh hair is the same length, aka much shorter than it was to begin with.

Quote from: freespeechz on September 01, 2008, 08:41:32 PMDan, when I shaved my calves, the hair came back much longer/thicker than before. But on my thighs for some reason, they came back a lot shorter. In the beginning I thought it was just because they hadn't finished growing back yet, but it's been like three years and the thigh hair is the same length, aka much shorter than it was to begin with.

Hmm. Interesting. Since the hair was really short and blond, I figured if I lost anything I wouldn't be loosing much. So I took the chance.

Quote from: freespeechz on September 01, 2008, 08:41:32 PM
Dan, when I shaved my calves, the hair came back much longer/thicker than before. But on my thighs for some reason, they came back a lot shorter. In the beginning I thought it was just because they hadn't finished growing back yet, but it's been like three years and the thigh hair is the same length, aka much shorter than it was to begin with.

Do your pants rub on your thighs in that area?  I have a bald patch on each of my thighs near where the crotch of my pants rubs against them constantly.  My dad's once hairy calves have become smooth and hairless because the boots he wears rubs off all of his hair to the point where it does not grow back. 

Quote from: noxdraconis on September 01, 2008, 08:57:43 PMDo your pants rub on your thighs in that area?  I have a bald patch on each of my thighs near where the crotch of my pants rubs against them constantly.  My dad's once hairy calves have become smooth and hairless because the boots he wears rubs off all of his hair to the point where it does not grow back.

My pants rub my calves, so there's a bald spot on each of them, lol! Just like my dad.

A lot of guys actually do shave their legs, not as often as a women would,
but enough to keep them short (say a 1/8-1/4 inch).

I don't really like a lot of hair on a guy, but I don't want them to have none
also.

I am undecided about how much I will keep. Right now it's just a little. If I turn into a Sasquatch, I'll probably manage the hair somehow. Either use an electric trimmer or go as far as waxing. Guys look great his hairless chests but it's also very 70's to have a hairy chest. And  you guys all know how bad I want to live in the 70's. Lol.

Yah, I'm sure we'll all find ways of hair managment once we start T, but right now, there's not much of a point.

i used to shave to pass as a girl.  i havnt for a few months now though.  i looove it.  lol  i dont have to spend time on it, and i like to play with it.  idk.  like im pettin my dog or something.  im so weird. >_<

lol when my mom rubs my legs, she says I'm like the cat's brother.

When I moved in with my mom, I stopped shaving my legs because I was tired of it, but I kept shaving my underarms 'cause I was still in girl mode. I went back to doing my legs for a while during my last fling, but once that was over, I stopped altogether. Now the only thing I shave is my face (I don't need to, but it makes me feel good). I'll never shave my legs again. Too much trouble. And anyway, I'm Italian; I'm inherently hairy. I can't wait 'til I start T and can grow a beard--I just know it'll come in red like my bio-dad and my brother. I don't really care for the hair on my toes, though. Makes me feel vaguely hobbitish. >_>

Quote from: noxdraconis on September 01, 2008, 08:57:43 PM

Quote from: freespeechz on September 01, 2008, 08:41:32 PM
Dan, when I shaved my calves, the hair came back much longer/thicker than before. But on my thighs for some reason, they came back a lot shorter. In the beginning I thought it was just because they hadn't finished growing back yet, but it's been like three years and the thigh hair is the same length, aka much shorter than it was to begin with.

Do your pants rub on your thighs in that area?  I have a bald patch on each of my thighs near where the crotch of my pants rubs against them constantly.  My dad's once hairy calves have become smooth and hairless because the boots he wears rubs off all of his hair to the point where it does not grow back. 

Uhm. Maybe? I wear fitted jeans, but they're not tight, so I have no idea.

About chest hair, I'd prefer to wax everything except my happy trail. :) I like it.

Is it possible to judge the placement/thickness of your chest hair by the chest hair you already have? Because I do have hair on my chest, it's just peach fuzz, just like everyone has on their face, really thin and basically invisible.

Quote from: Yochanan on September 01, 2008, 10:13:55 PMWhen I moved in with my mom, I stopped shaving my legs because I was tired of it, but I kept shaving my underarms 'cause I was still in girl mode. I went back to doing my legs for a while during my last fling, but once that was over, I stopped altogether. Now the only thing I shave is my face (I don't need to, but it makes me feel good). I'll never shave my legs again. Too much trouble. And anyway, I'm Italian; I'm inherently hairy. I can't wait 'til I start T and can grow a beard--I just know it'll come in red like my bio-dad and my brother. I don't really care for the hair on my toes, though. Makes me feel vaguely hobbitish. >_>

I dread having a beard. BUT I will enjoy side burns. It's unfortunate, I think those come last... And some guys never get 'em.

Sideburns! ;D

And I want a soul patch. Maybe.

Quote from: freespeechz on September 01, 2008, 10:21:42 PM
Sideburns! ;D

And I want a soul patch. Maybe.

I was thinking along the same lines.

What bugs me is that my facial hair will probably be darker than the hair on my head.  :-\ I'll probably dye my hair. *shrug*

Well if I ever decide I want to bleach my hair again, then my facial hair won't match.

Sorry for walking into the room.
A lot of men shave their entire bodies.  Kinda like a weigh-lifters look.  Personally I like a man that has a hair chest, something to play with when snuggling.

Shaving is a personal choice.

Janet

To be honest, I'd be majorly grossed out if anybody played with hair other than the stuff on my head. I guess I don't really know for sure, but that's what I feel would happen.

I think my facial hair will be the same as on my head hah. Maybe more black than dark brown. Only judging by the hair above my lip, which looks like a 5oclock shadow in my opinion. I dunno. Does it? -prods picture to the left-

I definitely want a soul patch.

Looking at my dad, it'll probably be the same colour as the hair on my head. Which is fine by me, my hair has a unique colour that I like.

I used to shave until I realized I was trans and started dressing male.  Then I stopped shaving my legs and pits and started shaving my 5 chin hairs and peach fuzz.

Someday I do hope to have facial hair and to let my hair grow longer.  But not until I'm passing 100% first.

Jay

I stopped shaving my armpits and legs long before I started T.  I did it so infrequently that I'm not sure I could say I ever 'stopped'- that would imply starting to begin with.

I now shave my face/neck/head only.

So many people don't like a man with hair on his body... tsk tsk  :-\

The Naked Update with Chevy Chase would not have been any good if he was completely hairless.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy168%2Fpenguin_furuba%2FPeople%2F1weupdate.jpg&hash=655b42c47e927f56e3bab6880d8d22b0a8c508c4)

Quote from: Elwood on September 02, 2008, 05:47:54 PM
So many people don't like a man with hair on his body... tsk tsk  :-\

The Naked Update with Chevy Chase would not have been any good if he was completely hairless.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy168%2Fpenguin_furuba%2FPeople%2F1weupdate.jpg&hash=655b42c47e927f56e3bab6880d8d22b0a8c508c4)

*sigh* What do people have against hair? Do they thick we've trying to reverse evolution so we can be monkeys?

I don't like hairy men either. maybe just a bit on the chest like the Chevy Chase pic. That's attractive.
But not a whole forest or anything.

I've never shaved and don't think I will, except the face of course, but perhaps T might change that. I don't mind body hair, though I probably wouldn't be too keen on being excessively hairy, either. Having a beard doesn't seem very appealing to me, but a moustache I'd like to have at some point in my life at least.

I agree that there is such a thing as too much. But I don't like men to be like, hairless and feminine looking. Like emo boys (no offense to the emo boys here).

None taken, Dan. -grin- I think I'm an emo boy because it's the easiest way for me to pass rightnow. The Fall Out Boy look seems a bit immature to me, but I figure it works since everyone thinks I'm younger anyway. As for shaving, my mom used to make me sometimes. Y'know..."Ohh, if you have armpit hair it holds smell...and while you're at it, shave your legs." She tries to pretend it's not a trans issue, but it obviously is. So...when I can, I don't shave my legs or underarms, and I shave my face to get rid of peach fuzz. When I start T, I'm hoping I'll look good with a bit of five o'clock shadow. And maybe a bit of chest hair. I'm hoping for a bit more everywhere else. Except my back. Nothankyou.

So, how many guys plan on shaving their ass hair? :P

Quote from: gravitysrainbow on September 02, 2008, 10:51:41 PMNone taken, Dan. -grin- I think I'm an emo boy because it's the easiest way for me to pass rightnow. The Fall Out Boy look seems a bit immature to me, but I figure it works since everyone thinks I'm younger anyway. As for shaving, my mom used to make me sometimes. Y'know..."Ohh, if you have armpit hair it holds smell...and while you're at it, shave your legs." She tries to pretend it's not a trans issue, but it obviously is. So...when I can, I don't shave my legs or underarms, and I shave my face to get rid of peach fuzz. When I start T, I'm hoping I'll look good with a bit of five o'clock shadow. And maybe a bit of chest hair. I'm hoping for a bit more everywhere else. Except my back. Nothankyou.

You don't look like the "omg I'm so depressed that I wear dresses" kind of emo, though. You look like a dude to me, not a dude that looks like a chick, lol.

And I agree with you on the back thing. I think back hair is pretty bad. So I'd be getting it waxed, probably. At least while I'm still young and pretty.

Quote from: Nero on September 02, 2008, 06:02:09 PM
I don't like hairy men either. maybe just a bit on the chest like the Chevy Chase pic. That's attractive.
But not a whole forest or anything.

Same. When my mom gave me sex-ed books as a kid, and it mentioned guys feeling "inadequate" or something during puberty just because they didn't grow any chest hair, I always thought.... "....So? It looks better that way."
I'll take the beard tho fo-sho!

But with what Janet mentioned....I already remember the painful horror of shaving my crotch. Should I grow hair on my chest, I will not be bothered with shaving it off. THE ITCH...THE BURN..... PASS.

Quote from: Elwood on September 01, 2008, 10:17:47 PM

Quote from: Yochanan on September 01, 2008, 10:13:55 PMWhen I moved in with my mom, I stopped shaving my legs because I was tired of it, but I kept shaving my underarms 'cause I was still in girl mode. I went back to doing my legs for a while during my last fling, but once that was over, I stopped altogether. Now the only thing I shave is my face (I don't need to, but it makes me feel good). I'll never shave my legs again. Too much trouble. And anyway, I'm Italian; I'm inherently hairy. I can't wait 'til I start T and can grow a beard--I just know it'll come in red like my bio-dad and my brother. I don't really care for the hair on my toes, though. Makes me feel vaguely hobbitish. >_>

I dread having a beard. BUT I will enjoy side burns. It's unfortunate, I think those come last... And some guys never get 'em.

Whaaaaaat?! Growing a beard is one of the things I look FORWARD to!! I'm still messing around trying to figure out which style I might like the best. Hell, maybe I'll wait til I actually grow it then try out different ways of shaving to achieve the different styles until I settle on one I like.

For now I favor....chin only styled goatees or a goatee and mustache combo

Quote from: trapthavok on September 02, 2008, 11:06:15 PM

Quote from: Elwood on September 01, 2008, 10:17:47 PM

Quote from: Yochanan on September 01, 2008, 10:13:55 PMWhen I moved in with my mom, I stopped shaving my legs because I was tired of it, but I kept shaving my underarms 'cause I was still in girl mode. I went back to doing my legs for a while during my last fling, but once that was over, I stopped altogether. Now the only thing I shave is my face (I don't need to, but it makes me feel good). I'll never shave my legs again. Too much trouble. And anyway, I'm Italian; I'm inherently hairy. I can't wait 'til I start T and can grow a beard--I just know it'll come in red like my bio-dad and my brother. I don't really care for the hair on my toes, though. Makes me feel vaguely hobbitish. >_>

I dread having a beard. BUT I will enjoy side burns. It's unfortunate, I think those come last... And some guys never get 'em.

Whaaaaaat?! Growing a beard is one of the things I look FORWARD to!! I'm still messing around trying to figure out which style I might like the best. Hell, maybe I'll wait til I actually grow it then try out different ways of shaving to achieve the different styles until I settle on one I like.

For now I favor....chin only styled goatees or a goatee and mustache combo

Every guy's got his different quirks. I personally don't love chin hair myself. I'm a sideburn, soul patch kind of guy. I MIGHT try a mustache. And I'll probably hate it.

Omg I forgot sideburns. I NEED THEM. o.o;; Um. -cough- I mean. Sideburns would be nice. And thanks for the compliment, Dan. I've sortof been needing that lately.

Quote from: gravitysrainbow on September 02, 2008, 11:14:07 PMOmg I forgot sideburns. I NEED THEM. o.o;; Um. -cough- I mean. Sideburns would be nice. And thanks for the compliment, Dan. I've sortof been needing that lately.

Sideburns are hot. For serious. Not just are they hot, but they are a universal symbol of manliness.  :icon_twisted:

pits yes... but for some reason, it's happening less often. I guess I forget. Legs occasionally. but eh... I've got fibromyalgia. *shrugs*
Will I once I take T? I dunno, I'm not the only guy I know that shaves.  I used to live with another spooky guy who shaved EVERYTHING everything neck-down (and OW MAI GAWD THE TUB!!!). But he wasn't gay. Us spooky boys tend to be a bit more effete, unless we're rivets.

I do still shave my pits, I just think it looks better...since I'm not on T yet if I don't shave it just looks weird and gross. Legs, no. Other...regions...trimming is good.

And I'm definitely growing out some awesome sideburns as soon as it's feasible. Sideburns = win.

Heck no, legs and pits go au naturel. I'm not even very good about keeping up with my face. I grew a goatee because that's the only area that grows fast. My sideburns I can let go a bit, and my moustache is blond, so not visible from a distance.

Dennis

Quote from: iFindMeHere on September 03, 2008, 06:02:58 AM
Us spooky boys tend to be a bit more effete, unless we're rivets.

Eh?  Please translate for those of us who aren't hip to the lingo.  ;)


I've never been much of one for shaving, mainly because I can't be bothered.  I will, though, shave my legs on those rare occasions when I am going to wear shorts, or if I am going to be wearing that one pair of snow boots that always pulls the hairs.  But then, I probably will shave my chest, and sometimes my legs even after T, just because I prefer a guy who's smooth.  Unfortunately, I come from pretty hairy stock.  :-\  I may eventually spring for laser hair removal.

Quote from: Jamie-o on September 06, 2008, 02:04:03 AM

Quote from: iFindMeHere on September 03, 2008, 06:02:58 AM
Us spooky boys tend to be a bit more effete, unless we're rivets.

Eh?  Please translate for those of us who aren't hip to the lingo.  ;)

Wikipedia is a good place to look up rivetheads ... you may wish to google romanti-goths... round it out with a touch of the old death-rock and we're good!

Posted on: September 06, 2008, 04:20:37 AM

---

Quote from: Jamie-o on September 06, 2008, 02:04:03 AM
:-\  I may eventually spring for laser hair removal.

i agree! I refuse to have back hair and i really don't want a beard with my manliness. chest, probably not either.

I dont like under arm hair at all. I grow it but I trim it occasionally. Leg hair well thats wild and wonderful got lots of hair everywhere really except my face which is taking a while... I have never shaved religiously only when needed if things where showing when I dressed like a girl.

I don't shave my leg hair anymore. I do shave my armpit hair, but that's mainly for my girlfriend who doesn't like the look and feel of it. She thinks it is "icky". Since I don't want her to think I have any icky things, I shave it off.  :P

Some of you mention underarm hair... I've seen it mentioned before that some people shave it, but I have never heard of it around these parts. Are the Dutch backwards in this area or am I misunderstanding it? We are talking about the lower arms? Those things connected to the wrists? It seems odd to me to shave them, but as I mentioned, I never heard of it before. I have very fine white-blond hairs on them. I think they're fine the way they are.

Should I go on T, I am fairly sure I will get a hairy chest, and I am not looking forward to it. I think a smooth chest is nicer.
And I agree with a lot of you, sideburns are great! I love to have some! And a soulpatch as well, thankyouverymuch.
(perhaps a mustache, but I'm not sure it will look good on me.)

Quote from: PolarBear on September 06, 2008, 10:55:14 AM
Some of you mention underarm hair... I've seen it mentioned before that some people shave it, but I have never heard of it around these parts. Are the Dutch backwards in this area or am I misunderstanding it? We are talking about the lower arms? Those things connected to the wrists? It seems odd to me to shave them, but as I mentioned, I never heard of it before. I have very fine white-blond hairs on them. I think they're fine the way they are.

Underarm hair is the same thing as armpit hair.

Quote from: noxdraconis on September 06, 2008, 11:09:01 AM
Underarm hair is the same thing as armpit hair.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Nox! I felt like a doofus for not knowing.  :-\

QuoteI felt like a doofus for not knowing. :-\

Don't worry mate, it's inevitable that a term'll appear that people don't understand. Like "rivets" (which I have yet to look up :icon_paper:).

Sideburns... I don't know, my cousin has them, and it just looks like two great inch-wide trails of pubic hair are creeping down each side of his face, so I've sort of been put off them... :icon_omfg:  Same with the beard, my friend has a beard, and whenever we hug (platonically, of course :P) it's always really scratchy... But then, if it helps you pass... :icon_suspicious: Moustache I wouldn't mind, so long as it's small. Nothing big and bushy. Haven't shaved peach fuzz off yet, though planning to soon.

Underarm hair...personally, I think it just looks gross generally (particularly when people have their arms down by their sides and it's *still* long enough to poke out in all directions :icon_omfg:), so I usually try to remain hairless. As a physical guy, I'd want to be hairless there anyway.

Have't shaved my legs for months. Since 'round April, I think, though it may have been May. Don't have hairy feet, so no problem there, and everywhere else I never shave. Ever.

Quote from: Lutin on September 07, 2008, 10:10:53 AM
... Like "rivets" (which I have yet to look up :icon_paper:)...

Especially for you, Lutin: (from Wikipedia)

A rivet is a mechanical fastener. Before it is installed it consists of a smooth cylindrical shaft with a head on one end. The end opposite the head is called the buck-tail. On installation the rivet is placed in a pre-drilled hole. Then the tail is "upset" (i.e. deformed) so that it expands to about 1.5 times the original shaft diameter and holds the rivet in place. To distinguish between the two ends of the rivet, the original head is called the factory head and the deformed end is called the shop head or buck-tail.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F90%2FRivet01.jpg&hash=1d7298f8f6c6bf2cbd893ededa7b8efd877338ea)
(hotlinked because I'm lazy)

We will now commence with the original discussion.

PolarBear.

Pits yes, only because. Along with the binder, they tend to wiff abit.
And i dont wanna stink so i shave em :P lol
legs, naaah. Cant be bothered xD

I bet as a fashion deal we could convince men to start shaving their legs long before we could ever get them to do the pits.  So they smell.  Just means you've been working.  Really, nothing screams GIRL like shaved armpits.

I haven't shaved for a while and so far I don't smell worse. I'm starting to think it's one of those urban myths. Then again, I'm not big and hairy like most of you guys. I'm smaller than most girls.

i do it occasionally

Quote from: Elwood on September 07, 2008, 01:07:14 PM
I haven't shaved for a while and so far I don't smell worse. I'm starting to think it's one of those urban myths. Then again, I'm not big and hairy like most of you guys. I'm smaller than most girls.

insert anecdotal evidence of myself here.

Also, RIVETS = Rivetheads.

Per Wikipedia:

A rivethead is a person associated with the industrial music scene. Though industrial music emerged in the post-punk period, the identifiable stereotype of an Industrial fan would only emerge in the 1990s.[1] Rivetheads are sometimes associated with the cybergoth scene, though the development of the subculture occurred independently of goth. Dress style is typically militaristic.

etc etc

Aesthetics
The dress style of rivetheads is inspired by military aesthetics, complemented by modern primitive body-modification (tattoos, piercings and scarification) or borrowed visual cues from goths (mainly androgyny, fetishism and black hair dye), as well as punk themes (such as the fanned Mohawk hairstyle, worn by Sascha Konietzko of KMFDM).

Below are some of the main characteristics of the rivethead dress style, as indicated on parody sites such as Industrial 101[6] and Sykospark's "Insta Rivethead Kit"[7][8][9][10], and specific topics off the Side-Line[11] and industrial.org forums.

Boots: combat boots, Tanker boots, knee-high military dress boots, steel-toe boots (such as Dr. Martens, Gripfasts or Grinders), which are usually the centerpiece of the rivethead wardrobe. They are alternatively called "->-bleeped-<- stomping boots", "stompy boots" or "->-bleeped-<-kicking boots"
Pants: cargo pants or BDUs, often but not always black or urban camo, usually tucked into boots, pants rolled at the bottom cuffs, or as cut-off shorts. Also, leather pants and bondage pants.
Tops: Band T-shirts, Black Wifebeaters, flight jackets, leather jackets ("old school"). Bulletproof Vests, Trenchcoats are also frequently seen.
Hair: Long and black, dyed bright colors, shaved bald, partially shaved (undercut), or in a few cases, dreadlocked* and cyberfalls*.
headgear or facegear: sometimes masks are used, gasmasks, helmets and Welding goggles

Comparison to goth subculture
It should be noted that rivetheads are different from goths in ideological and musical terms, as well as in their visual aesthetics. Goths were a romantic outgrowth of punk, while the industrial counterculture was largely a pre-punk entity.

Confusion regarding the boundaries of those two youth cultures has heightened because of recent (mid-1990s onwards) hybridization, [12] which has led some people to believe that Rivetheads were actually a Goth offshoot[13][14]; the Canadian novelist Nancy Kilpatrick calls them "Industrial Goths".[15]). That assumption is incorrect. Industrial counterculture came to be in 1977[16] while Goth subculture gelled around the London's Batcave club in the summer of 1982[17][18][19].

The rise of cybergoths further contributed to this cross-boundary issue.

Rivethead culture is highly violent and sometimes totalitarian in its visuals, but not necessarily in practice. Goth culture is, however, devoid of any appreciation for violence[20][21]. The most important difference is the related types of music. They were grouped due to how small the Industrial scene was plus the fact of dark themes and further the merging of the music.


[edit] Columbine massacre
In the aftermath of the Columbine massacre, groups such as Marilyn Manson[22], Rammstein and KMFDM[23] were blamed for the tragedy. (According to a friend of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the Columbine shooters listened to the above artists, and the media has wrongly accused others that listened to these bands of heightened violent activity.[24]). Because of their liking for black clothes and trench coats, Harris and Klebold were labelled by the media as goths, something which many goths resented.[25]

According to musicologist Bret D. Woods in his Master Thesis about industrial music-[26]

"It is (...) important to note that some industrial artists use Marxist, socialist, and/or communist imagery in a shocking and satirical way to represent tyranny and their protest against tyranny. These are not to be seen as endorsements of particular ideologies, but are to be taken in context to their intent, a commentary on oppression".

– Bret Woods, Industrial Music for Industrial People (2007)

so:

Gothnote the shiny, black-black fabric - effeminate style, natural texture to hair
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fqueso.philadelphiaweekly.com%2Fgoth1.JPG&hash=c027d309618b30a6160f5b683b0803314d8ba53f)  this guy's fabric could come from a factory jumpsuit and his makeup's aggressive... synthetic look to hair

I havent Shaved anywere since i was 15... Yes I look just like King Kong LOL

so, a subgroup, of a subgroup, of a subgroup.  Ever narrower till we all get to be in a group of one.

Quote from: tekla on September 07, 2008, 07:14:30 PM
so, a subgroup, of a subgroup, of a subgroup.  Ever narrower till we all get to be in a group of one.

i think you misread it.

people mistake Rivetheads as an offshoot of Goth. Rivetheads came around before Goths did. Before about 1997, they were extremely distinct socioculturally. After that they started blending. Now instead of having clusters of one and clusters of the other in the same club, you have some mixed nuts too!

Posted on: September 07, 2008, 07:45:11 PM

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Quote from: Hazard on September 07, 2008, 07:13:24 PM
I havent Shaved anywere since i was 15... Yes I look just like King Kong LOL

I wish my hair would have come in like that. I grew minimal hairs but that got very long...

Yeah, all those bands you've mentioned, I've worked with all of them, some of them on several tours, and I can't tell the difference, except for Thrill Kill Kult, but you didn't bring them up.

I dont shave nothin :laugh: I got some hair on my legs & I dont wanna mess it up shavin

Quote from: Hazard on September 07, 2008, 07:13:24 PM
I havent Shaved anywere since i was 15... Yes I look just like King Kong LOL

lmao :laugh: same here.  king kong dont like shavin :laugh:  >:D

I shaved my legs once and hated it. Never did it again. I used to shave under my armpits too, but I don't anymore. If I have to go swimming or change for PE, I just keep my arms down.

My friend asked me why my leg felt hairy one day while I was swimming with her. My leg had brushed up against her's, and she was like 'Shave your legs!'. She's aware of my 'manliness'  :) but she doesn't know I'm trans yet because I'm to afraid of what might happen If I confirm her 'jokes' are true. Anyway, I could care less that people think I should shave my legs. But when I finally get my surgery, I think I'll keep my chest not hairy, because that's just creepy to me.

My armpit annoys me, though, cause I don't have enough hair to make it look ok, so it just looks weird. But I guess I don't really care.

I kind of liked shaving. Even jeans felt like silk after a shave, lol.

But I'd get really cold in the winter. I learned what "winter legs" are and why girls don't shave during the holidays!

My armpits aren't like "OMG FOREST OF HAIR" but I don't care, really. Men come in all sorts of shape, sizes, and hairiness. Having more hair doesn't make someone more of a man.

For serious. Apollo's* a hot steaming piece of man sex and he's not covered in a fur vest:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy168%2Fpenguin_furuba%2FPeople%2Fjamie_bamber400.jpg&hash=a6e03b488126ed6de6fe2b3c2397d86d60731298)

Although he's got a little.
*Jamie Bamber, in case you're wondering.

PS: Any buffer than that and you're too buff.  :-X In my opinion.

Quote from: The_Unforgiven on September 07, 2008, 11:48:07 PM


My armpit annoys me, though, cause I don't have enough hair to make it look ok, so it just looks weird. But I guess I don't really care.

exactly.

Don't ignore Lee!  :icon_anger:

Heheh. :icon_smile:

Quote from: Elwood on September 07, 2008, 11:57:29 PM
I kind of liked shaving. Even jeans felt like silk after a shave, lol.

But I'd get really cold in the winter. I learned what "winter legs" are and why girls don't shave during the holidays!

My armpits aren't like "OMG FOREST OF HAIR" but I don't care, really. Men come in all sorts of shape, sizes, and hairiness. Having more hair doesn't make someone more of a man.

For serious. Apollo's* a hot steaming piece of man sex and he's not covered in a fur vest:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy168%2Fpenguin_furuba%2FPeople%2Fjamie_bamber400.jpg&hash=a6e03b488126ed6de6fe2b3c2397d86d60731298)

Although he's got a little.
*Jamie Bamber, in case you're wondering.

PS: Any buffer than that and you're too buff.  :-X In my opinion.

That is my dream body. I'd love to be that buff... I'd take it hair and all!

I prefer moderately hairy. That right there seems about what I'd be fine with. :)

Quote from: Monty on September 08, 2008, 01:01:05 PM

Quote from: Elwood on September 07, 2008, 11:57:29 PM
I kind of liked shaving. Even jeans felt like silk after a shave, lol.

But I'd get really cold in the winter. I learned what "winter legs" are and why girls don't shave during the holidays!

My armpits aren't like "OMG FOREST OF HAIR" but I don't care, really. Men come in all sorts of shape, sizes, and hairiness. Having more hair doesn't make someone more of a man.

For serious. Apollo's* a hot steaming piece of man sex and he's not covered in a fur vest:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy168%2Fpenguin_furuba%2FPeople%2Fjamie_bamber400.jpg&hash=a6e03b488126ed6de6fe2b3c2397d86d60731298)

Although he's got a little.
*Jamie Bamber, in case you're wondering.

PS: Any buffer than that and you're too buff.  :-X In my opinion.

That is my dream body. I'd love to be that buff... I'd take it hair and all!

I prefer moderately hairy. That right there seems about what I'd be fine with. :)

Heheh. Not quite my dream body, but I sure love looking at him, haha. He's got a very interesting face, too, which strangely enough is what usually catches my attention.

Personally, that's a little over the top for me. It takes A LOT of work to get your body to look like that. Working out for hours every day. Would I hate myself if I looked that way? No. But... it's not really a goal of mine, either. Heheh.

He does indeed have an interesting looking face.

Some people like to be, some people like to look and some like both. Which is just fine. :)

Quote from: Elwood on September 08, 2008, 01:09:42 PM

Quote from: Monty on September 08, 2008, 01:01:05 PM

Quote from: Elwood on September 07, 2008, 11:57:29 PM
I kind of liked shaving. Even jeans felt like silk after a shave, lol.

But I'd get really cold in the winter. I learned what "winter legs" are and why girls don't shave during the holidays!

My armpits aren't like "OMG FOREST OF HAIR" but I don't care, really. Men come in all sorts of shape, sizes, and hairiness. Having more hair doesn't make someone more of a man.

For serious. Apollo's* a hot steaming piece of man sex and he's not covered in a fur vest:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy168%2Fpenguin_furuba%2FPeople%2Fjamie_bamber400.jpg&hash=a6e03b488126ed6de6fe2b3c2397d86d60731298)

Although he's got a little.
*Jamie Bamber, in case you're wondering.

PS: Any buffer than that and you're too buff.  :-X In my opinion.

That is my dream body. I'd love to be that buff... I'd take it hair and all!

I prefer moderately hairy. That right there seems about what I'd be fine with. :)

Heheh. Not quite my dream body, but I sure love looking at him, haha. He's got a very interesting face, too, which strangely enough is what usually catches my attention.

Personally, that's a little over the top for me. It takes A LOT of work to get your body to look like that. Working out for hours every day. Would I hate myself if I looked that way? No. But... it's not really a goal of mine, either. Heheh.

That's definitely my goal in terms of buffness. My arm muscles are already beginning to bloat a little bit and I'm concentrating on getting rid of the gut to make room for the six pack ;)!!

In terms of hair, I said before that I'd like hair on my legs, arms, face, underarms.....I just dont want any on my chest (with the exception of a hairier happy trail!)

But if I looked like that guy, I could learn to like having hair on my chest...if it happened to be in the exact same position as his.

Quote from: trapthavok on September 08, 2008, 01:33:40 PMThat's definitely my goal in terms of buffness. My arm muscles are already beginning to bloat a little bit and I'm concentrating on getting rid of the gut to make room for the six pack ;)!!

In terms of hair, I said before that I'd like hair on my legs, arms, face, underarms.....I just dont want any on my chest (with the exception of a hairier happy trail!)

But if I looked like that guy, I could learn to like having hair on my chest...if it happened to be in the exact same position as his.

Heheh. I do sit ups every damn day and I can't manage a six pack. I don't know what it is. I hope testosterone will help. I have been told it makes muscle gain a lot easier.

If I looked like Apollo, I'd have so much fun um, impersonating Apollo. Lol. I seriously don't know what else I'd do will looking like him. Lmao.

Yeah, testosterone is a muscle builder. So it should help.

I'd rather have a more prominent happy trail than a hairy chest, too... but we'll see how that goes.

Elwood, you won't get six packs from sit-up unless you're lean and you use weights behind your head
and do less repetitions at a higher weight. Say 15x but very though ones.

If one sit-up is easy, you're not using enough weights.
Every sit-up should demand a good effort.

In my guy phase, I was doing 15x with 50 pounds behind my head on those inclined benches with my legs being held (way way inclined, at least 45% );
that very very hard.

I had the best six pack I've ever seen in anyone :-).

Is body is awesome I would love to be that buff and the body hair is awesome! I have a happy trail and a lot of hair on my stomach and over my lumps so hopefully when they are contemded then I will be complete! Need to shift at least 3 or 4 stone to look like that though! *sighs* Damn Crisps and chocolate! I look like I am carrying a keg!

Need to really get it sorted!

I want to have big arms but because of my wrists I cant lift weights normally and am dieing to find some other way to build them!

Quote from: Keira on September 08, 2008, 02:57:56 PMElwood, you won't get six packs from sit-up unless you're lean and you use weights behind your head
and do less repetitions at a higher weight. Say 15x but very though ones.

I tend to put a weight on my chest... so maybe it's in the wrong spot?

I wouldn't mind looking like that, that's a bit of an understatement. I would love to look like that. What do I need to do the look like that?

Quote from: Adam on September 08, 2008, 05:05:52 PMI wouldn't mind looking like that, that's a bit of an understatement. I would love to look like that. What do I need to do the look like that?

Work out. :P It takes consistency and determination to look like that.

Quote from: Elwood on September 07, 2008, 11:57:29 PM
PS: Any buffer than that and you're too buff.  :-X In my opinion.

I agree. I don't want to be totally buff, but I do want to at least not have a beer belly like my uncles do. I'd be fine to look like my dad, he's kinda in the middle, not completely buff, but some muscle, and skinny. Although, he does have a good amount of chest hair.... anyway, getting off topic. I'm pretty strong without T, so hopefully with it, some muscles will come so people can see that.  :)

Quote from: alexkidd on September 01, 2008, 05:55:33 PM
So I'm pre-T (due to start in November, hopefully) and I don't shave alot anyways.

But I got to thinking when I am on T, I'm not going to be shaving my legs and under arms. Do you pre-T guys still bother with shaving? Or even post T guys do you still shave (other then your face ofcourse)?

Old thread, I know.

I generally only shave when I'm going to be running around in shorts or something showing my legs or a tank-top.

It came up so I reply.

Only really shaved/waxed/whatever to please my mom. Once I sort of accepted my male identity, I stopped as a sort of act of rebellion. Since I came out, I don't even have to pretend to care (I don't, so it's cool.)

This one comes up a lot, doesn't it?

If you had my hair growth pattern, you'd shave too. I literally only grow visible adult hair in approximately a five-inch band around the lower half of each calf. It looks...odd. When I get proper male leg hair I'll have to reconsider, but for now, I have to shave so I don't look like a mutant.

Never shaved, why start now?

Pit hair grosses me out so I shave them. I don't do it religiously. Just every couple weeks when I think about it. I didn't shave pre-t but now they get a bit excessive

Pre-T I'd go back and forth, randomly shaving my legs here and there. I would keep my arm pits and pubic area trimmed but not shaved. Sometimes I shaved my legs only because it looked weird to have a trimmed pubic area and hairy legs lol.

Now that I've been on T for a few years I manscape. I still have to keep my pits trimmed because of sweating and smell (I am an extreme sweater but I also live in Nebraska where it's very humid during the summer). My legs I keep the hair longer but I do trim it about once a month because I swear it just doesn't actually stop growing at a certain length... I think I'd look like cousin It from the Addam's family if I wasn't careful lol. I also trim my stomach, chest and arm hair for the same reason. I don't have thick or heavy hair, it's still pretty light and fuzzy like peach fuzz in most places except the little trail on my tummy (which I proudly keep of course... I just have to shave the fuzzy half that goes upward for it to look right).

I actually just began manscaping about 4 months ago and was immediately surprised at the change, it actually made me look a lot more masculine once I trimmed my stomach and chest hair.

Armpit hair bugs me if it gets too long, so I shave it every couple weeks or so.  I've never had any desire to shave my legs, though.  I did in high school to prevent avoidable bullying, but once I finished my gym classes I've never seen reason to do it again.  I actually hate the feeling of having smooth hairless legs...  It creeps me out.

I've actually got quite a bit of leg hair, and it disturbs my family that I let it grow into a forest.  More fun for me to gross them out when I wear shorts, I say! :D

I don't shave anymore since coming out, I always found it odd when I had to shave my legs as I had to shave my iner thighs as I've got dark almost black hairs going down my towards my knees I was like are women ment to have hair here like this?

I only ever shaved if I had PE at school so I wouldn't get bullied but sometimes i'd skip PE just so I could keep my leg and arm pit hair. I never shave now though and don't intend to.

i used to because my mom would push me to, but basically i'm old enough to say 'screw it' and do what i want.

i only shave if i KNOW i'm going to be in a situation where i need to, say... if one of my mom's friends was having a wedding and i was being drug along, i'd shave for that because forcibly wearing a dress  ::) (tell yourself it's drag...tell yourself it's drag)

but otherwise. it's pointless to risk cutting yourself and missing places

I haven't been shaving for the past few weeks, but this has been awkward for 3 reasons:
1. The parts where it is growing right now doesn't look like it's going to be thick enough.
2. I only pass about 50% of the time and if they've already decided "female", I don't think the wimpy leg hairs will sway them. They'll just think I'm a hairy female hippie.
3. It's summer and too hot to wear pants most of the time, so I've been discouraged from running/general exercise lest someone see my developing leg hair.

Ugh, does anyone else have the weird nipple chest hair problem? I barely have any chest hair and I've always had SOME hair around my nipples but ever since I started T it's like a private ->-bleeped-<-ing forest! The chest hair I do have is dark and decently long but very soft and fuzz like at the same time. However around my nipples it's the thick black coarse hair.

I feel like it looks absurd. I should take a picture and show you guys lol. I would have to work up the courage, though I am pretty flat chested naturally so with the right angle it wouldn't be too embarrassing or awkward I guess.

Quote from: Cowboi on June 29, 2010, 11:29:16 AM
Ugh, does anyone else have the weird nipple chest hair problem? I barely have any chest hair and I've always had SOME hair around my nipples but ever since I started T it's like a private ->-bleeped-<-ing forest! The chest hair I do have is dark and decently long but very soft and fuzz like at the same time. However around my nipples it's the thick black coarse hair.

I feel like it looks absurd. I should take a picture and show you guys lol. I would have to work up the courage, though I am pretty flat chested naturally so with the right angle it wouldn't be too embarrassing or awkward I guess.

HAHAHA yeah. I had that until top surgery.  My surgeon removed that area of skin, which I'm a bit thankful for  ;D.  It looked hilarious

Quote from: alex408 on June 29, 2010, 11:51:10 AM
HAHAHA yeah. I had that until top surgery.  My surgeon removed that area of skin, which I'm a bit thankful for  ;D.  It looked hilarious

Phew, I was hoping that surgery would help that problem. Wouldn't it have been weird to have a nipple graft and then still have hair in the little spots where the nipples used to be? Every time I imagine that it makes me laugh.

I hate shaving, with a passion. I get self conscious though as I don't pass and probably won't until I start T and I can't do that til I move out. *sighs* So frustrated.

Quote from: ~Jay~ on June 29, 2010, 06:16:19 AM
I don't shave anymore since coming out, I always found it odd when I had to shave my legs as I had to shave my iner thighs as I've got dark almost black hairs going down my towards my knees I was like are women ment to have hair here like this?

I think if the female sex weren't meant to have hair, then they would never grow it :P

Hair is just a natural part of being a human, everyone will have it to some degree unless you happen to be born with a rare disorder where you do not grow hair at all.

I'm not on T at all and I have some 'typical male pattern hair growth'. About a year ago my inner thighs were hairless and since then it's been growing outwards from my pubic region and all along my inner thighs and down close to my butt and I'm also getting some belly hairs. I also haven't shaved my legs in about 3 years and don't plan to do it. If I have to go to some sort of event I will cover my legs as best I can and hope for the best that nobody gets in my face about it.

Recently I've started to not care as much about showing my hairy legs and underarms. The only time the underarm hair bothers me is if I'm sweating a lot but I can't really be bothered to shave it.

I have never really been a person to shave. I've always considered it too much a hassle. I shaved occasionally if i were going to go swimming or something like that. Now that i'm out (still pre-T), i don't ever shave. I don't shave any part of my body. my body hair is what makes me feel like i look manly.

I'm kind of scared to start T after looking at my legs after only 3 weeks of not shaving.  They're starting to look little forests...it's really odd...probably doesn't help that the hair is black as can be.

I actually did research on this topic since I was curious of to how many men actually save their pits and legs and all and if there are any girls out there who would find that sexy (I mean come on, we're all doing this for the ladies right?  ;) LOL!! Big j/k there.)

But what I have found out that most men don't really save their legs and when they do it's usually for the sports they're in, such as swimming/water polo/most water sports.

As for the pits, not many men shave them however it is not abnormal for guys to do it. Apparently it keeps their pits smelling better and for longer periods of time.

Honestly I can't stand the idea of having pit hair, so I'm shaving that off. Other than that I'm leaving my leg hair as it is. Being Asian and all, you can't really grow hair in the first place...I'm saving what I can man!

Quote from: Sameth on September 01, 2008, 06:05:09 PM
I don't bother with legs anymore since I like it. Underarms I will shave if I wear a tank top or am in a situation where people are going to see them, mainly because I have enough pit hair to be easily noticeable, but not enough for it to look decent. I don't pass anyways, so it just looks gross.

same here, my pitt hair is enough to be noticeable, but it looks like female pitt hair.. and even though I'm a guy, I just feel like female pitt hair is gross.. is that weird? lol

I shave my pit hair and i still shave my calves, but not my thighs only when i have to wear shorts. i absolutely hate shaving though.

Well, hairless pits take less deoderant.

You could do it in the name of being extremely cheap.

Quote from: Elijah on June 30, 2010, 01:58:06 AM
same here, my pitt hair is enough to be noticeable, but it looks like female pitt hair.. and even though I'm a guy, I just feel like female pitt hair is gross.. is that weird? lol

No thats not weird, well i agree at least

Yeah, on the pits I do need to shave them for the sweating/smell. Antiperspirant, for no discernible reason, actually causes me to start pouring out rivers of sweat- and I barely sweat normally. (That's weird, isn't it? I don't get it.) So I use just regular spray deodorant and shave. I think I'd shave anyway, though, just for aesthetic reasons.

I never liked the puberty hair growth. Maybe I'll like it in my second puberty, but as of right now I see what body hair I have as feminine, not masculine. It was the girl parts that made it develop.

The last time I shaved anything (besides my head) was when I was maybe 17...which was pre-realization of transness, post-not giving a f**k about body hair. So, I shaved for maybe 2 years of my life. Out of those 2 years I only shaved when absolutely needed (summer time).

I'm pre-T and I don't shave my legs, but I do shave under my arms, and probably will do when finally on T, more for the fact that I already sweat an awful lot under there, and the hair just makes it worse.

I havent for ages. I've never liked shaving my legs but a girlfriend gave me ->-bleeped-<- about it so I did it for a while in summer.. didn't like it though. So I haven't for year or so, I like how it looks and feels :P   Plus I'm lazy, haha.

Nope, never, not at all.

One thing I do though: I pluck the unibrow. I prefer to have two eyebrows, lol.

Indeed I do. It's a cleanliness thing, something about being hairy feels gross to me. But trust me, if Istopped shaving, I would be hairier than most bio-guys.
I'm not concerned that shaving my body hair is a girly habit. I know plenty of guys who shave.

*facepalm*

I'm on girls tennis - since there's both a boys and a girls team i have to be on the girls team. Joy joy.

I'm gonna have to shave the pits until October.
fuunnn...

that little thing slipped my mind.

Quote from: insanitylives on July 03, 2010, 07:27:52 PM
*facepalm*

I'm on girls tennis - since there's both a boys and a girls team i have to be on the girls team. Joy joy.

I'm gonna have to shave the pits until October.
fuunnn...

that little thing slipped my mind.

Required? Can't you just be the odd one out?

Not with miss republican homophobic girl who has HONESTLY said that our current president should "crawl up in a hole, shoot himself, and die" as well as telling me that I should "go drown in the ocean, you're going to die in fire anyway"

She might be half my size, but I'm gonna avoid confrontations, because I WILL be blamed [yknow, cuz it's easier to blame the 5'9 dyke than the 4'11 prim&proper girlygirl]


oh.. and the uniforms. Forgot about those.
Hope i can get away with black sweatpants this year...[skirts -.-]

Haven't shaved anything since I came out over a year ago.

The only thing I shave is the peach fuzz on my face.

I never did it in the first place.

Pre-t and no I do not shave.  Haven't shaved the legs in a long time.  Stopped shaving armpits last semester as an experiment.  Ever since no shaving.  My thoughts is it will help me pass, and it makes me feel better that I have more pit and leg hair than some grown guys I know.  Haha, yay for confidence.  Howeevverrr, there leaves the problem of when I'm around people who know me but don't know I'm a guy.  I love wearing sleeveless shirts, but I don't wear them in that situation.  I will present myself as guy as much as possible...short of showing body hair.  I'm afraid they'll think it's gross and not understand why I have it (and they won't cuz they don't know). 
After I'm on T I'll start shaving now and again (I like clean hairless skin too), but as I said, for now to help with passing around strangers I don't shave.  Ever.  (less work for me!)

I don't shave anything and some of the people who think I'm just a lesbian don't even make a big deal with me not shaving, this one boy wanted to compare our leg hair lengths lmao.

pre transition I shaved my legs, I dunno why, just did it.  and pre T i shaved my armpits, I am 1 week on T and don't plan to shave anymore, but I will probably shave my pits untill I get more hair there (cause semi pit hair is dumb IMO)

I shave everything. When I don't it's itchy and if I let things get out of hand I dislike the smell. When I stop shaving my legs I don't get itchy, but I feel awkward letting them be furry when everything else is shaved.

I personally cannot stand to shave anything anymore. I trim the underarm hair sometimes if it gets too much but I cannot stand the feel of clothing against shaved skin. It drives me up the wall.

I've never bothered with shaving. To me it's not natural. Even on T I will refuse to shave.

I haven't shaved anything in the last few months or so. Shaving makes me feel very feminine. I think it's because I'm pre-everything, so body hair is the only physically masculine thing I've got. Before I start T, I'm going to shave my legs and armpits, so when the hair grows back, it's more coarse, and less feminine looking.

I rarely even shaved my legs before I came out. Maybe once or twice during the summer. Underarm hair, I don't have to worry about, which I really don't care for. I had surgery when I was 15 to remove infection and lost all of my hair in my underarms. Kind of wishing I had a choice now but it is one little thing I don't like. Now the only thing I shave is my face :)

I shave the bottom part of my legs, below the knee and my armpits.  The reason for the bottom part is, I can't seem to get any sort of male hair growth on my lower legs. HOWEVER my thighs look pretty darn manly lol. So go figure.  :P

And I shave my armpits because I just prefer it lol. I am a gay guy so maybe the primping is just in my blood lol.