Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So I am starting T in October and although my gf already refers to me in the male sense she is heaps worried about how me starting T is going to affect our relationship. She wants to stay together and understands why I need to take T, but worried about how that will affect her. She is like a die-hard femmey lesbian, and loves the lesbain/gay lifestyle and culture and likes to let pppl know she is gay, her major worry is that when she talks about me or introdcues me in the "he" sense that ppl will assume she is straight, which has big issues for her. She is more then happy that I am tranisioning and being the person I want to be and we both think our relationship will be ok, but the being gay thing is a a big issue for her.

Some of you other ftms must have lesbian/gay girlfriends. How do they deal with this sort of thing? In the gay scene I think she'll be fine, but like at work they know she is gay, how can she take her "boyfriend" Alex to the work get togethers without them thinking she is straight or bi.

Is this something we should even be worries about? I want to take her concerns into account and address them properly so there is no major dramas between us, but is she maybe over anyalising things to much?

Yep, she's overanalyzing. She's not gay, she's bi and shouldn't be ashamed of it.

No dude, she is not bi. She is 36 and has been a lesbian her whole life.

She is not bi at all.

She feel in love with me as a girl, we've been together for four years now that I am transioning she can't just fall out of love with me, our relationship is too powerful for that. But she needs to know how to deal with being a lesbian but having a trans/guy partner.

I'm thinking this is something she's been struggling with for a while and she's being more vocal about it because she's getting closer to needing to make a decision. Choose you, or the lifestyle she's happy living.

Unfortunately I don't think there's really anything you can do except be ready for the possibly that you may be going your own way.

We both fully understand that we might have to go "our seperate ways"

But there must be other ways to cope and deal with issues together.

I mean MfF sometimes stay with there wives, how does the wife maintain the fact she is straight? even though she is now with a woman?

Quote from: alexkidd on September 15, 2008, 10:48:50 PM
No dude, she is not bi. She is 36 and has been a lesbian her whole life.

She is not bi at all.

She feel in love with me as a girl, we've been together for four years now that I am transioning she can't just fall out of love with me, our relationship is too powerful for that. But she needs to know how to deal with being a lesbian but having a trans/guy partner.

Oh ok. Well I imagine that that would be hard then. Buuuut, doesn't insisting she's a lesbian kind of disrespect you?

Posted on: September 16, 2008, 12:09:50 AM

---

nevermind, that wasn't exactly helpful. it's just what i would be thinking.

I see what you're saying, but it's going to be difficult for someone who puts so much emphasis on her sexuality to adjust, not everyone can do this. For anyone staying with a transitioning person they have to be ready and willing to at least someway identify as the opposite sexual orientation, or they're just lying to you and themselves.

If your girlfriend isn't ready to do this then there's going to be some issues.

Quote from: Osiris on September 15, 2008, 11:22:18 PM
If your girlfriend isn't ready to do this then there's going to be some issues.

I'm sorry bro but I'm going to have to agree.

Being an out and proud lesbian is a big part of who she is I suppose, so it will be hard for her to let that go if she thinks that's what she has to do to stay with you. That's what it sounds like. Lines blur for us, we're just people who want to be with other people, but sometimes we get with people like this who feel lesbian is who they are and having the world see them as anything but makes them worry.

I'm not going to give an ultimatum and say some garbage like "if she really cared about you she wouldn't care what you were" because I understand that lesbian is WHO she is. If that's the way she feels, she's going to have to take a step back and examine her priorities before she can go any further with you. It is evident that you still care for each other greatly but this may present a problem. SHE has to work things out bro.

It's great that you care about how she feels and you want to help. So offer your help in whatever ways you can. But mostly this sounds like something she's going to have to figure out for herself.

has anyone whos been in this situtation out there got any ideas? Surely Im not the only FtM with a lesbian partner?

Or even if your MtF I'ld like to hear you view on how and if your partner coped ok?

Quote from: Osiris on September 15, 2008, 11:22:18 PM
I see what you're saying, but it's going to be difficult for someone who puts so much emphasis on her sexuality to adjust, not everyone can do this. For anyone staying with a transitioning person they have to be ready and willing to at least someway identify as the opposite sexual orientation, or they're just lying to you and themselves.

This seems to me as if it's a very concise assessment of any relationship that pairs transitioning people with those who have identified themselves strongly as either gay or straight. Bi would probably not have the associated perceptual problems.

What we have found in our relationship is that the quality of the relationship itself overrides whatever "people think." We've paid with family on both sides: with mine because of transition and with hers because of the lesbian relationship. Both sides saying "it's against God & we refuse to recognize what's against God."

It wasn't a huge change for either of us and our own relationship trumps for us how others perceive us. And since we were both to some extent bi before, we never had the intense "orientation" problems that so many get from partners. It simply hasn't come into our relationship because we place one another on a separate level than we place sexuality issues.

But, that is often not true for folks. Who they are perceived as being sexually can be a huge emotional issue for most or many people.

I'd say you both have some conversation to get underway about how important your sexual orientation is as it is viewed from the outside.

Nichole

Quote from: alexkidd on September 16, 2008, 02:00:40 AM
has anyone whos been in this situtation out there got any ideas? Surely Im not the only FtM with a lesbian partner?

Or even if your MtF I'ld like to hear you view on how and if your partner coped ok?

im a mtf who is married to a female.  I dont think there is a way for her to remain 'straight' if she continues to stay with me throughout transition.  I'm pretty sure the way she has accepted this is by going with the whole "im attracted to who I am, regardless of gender"  But i do think she has had bi-sexual tendencies before I came out.
I also think that if she would insist she was straight, yet was still attracted to me, then that would just make me feel like she views me as a man.  And that would be rather sad and or insulting

I honestly think that if she insists she is a lesbian.. and you are a guy, then it probably isn't going to work out either because she IS only a lesbian so being with a guy wouldnt work for her, or because she WANTS to maintain being a lesbian, and even if she is attracted to you, then it would cause problems for you because you are a guy.  (if that made any sense at all)

now, she does seem to be attracted to you, and in that aspect she is Bi, and has to come to terms with the fact that she may not be a full on hard core lesbian.

sorry if this isnt what you were looking for, but i hope it helps

Hi, Alex! I am the SO of a MtF, so I can relate a bit to what your GF feels, only I had to deal with being perceived as lesbian :P

Unfortunately, your GF is going to have to deal with being *perceived* as "straight", because people are going to see a guy and a girl and *think* that, even if they don't say it. I'm talking general public here, not just her co-workers. Anytime you go out as a couple, people will see a regular hetero couple, because that is what you will appear to be.

For me, I decided in the end that what people call me doesn't matter. What matters is that I'm happy and Dani is happy and we're happy together. Dani and I both know that we'll face some challenges as a lesbian couple, but we'll face them together. I found through examining my feelings on this issue that I'm probably not "straight" (although I think very few people are exclusively so - but that's another discussion :) ) I fall somewhere near the lesbian side of bisexual...perhaps that made it easier...but I also have a track record of not caring very much about what the 'general public' thinks.

However, since your GF seems to have made her lifestyle a statement of sorts, I can see the problem. If she suddenly starts showing up at functions with a guy, it would make her appear to be a liar and she will take a major credibility hit. There are a few ways out of this predicament I can see. She either goes by herself to business functions or doesn't go to them at all (not ideal, if she has close friends there.) She can explain how you came to be Alex (again not ideal either. :/ ) After that, I'd suggest that she not make being lesbian such public knowledge (IMHO, you really shouldn't bring your private life to work, but I do tend to be conservative in those things.) In conversations, she can always use generic pronouns such as "partner" which will allow the listener to make their own assumptions as to the gender of the partner.

Your therapist or your GF's (if she has one) may be able to offer additional suggestions.

I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help....

*hugs*

WR

A lot of lesbians have asked me out. I refused to date any of them... heck, even one I liked... because they see me as a woman. We've got to be on the same page about my gender identity...

Wish I could help with personal experience, but my lesbian partner dumped me 15 minutes after I told her.

I think Windrider's advice is sage. I do see a lot more lesbians very invested in lesbian identity than straight women invested in straight identity, but there is going to have to be some flex on both sides. Maybe in queer space, you can define yourselves as queer and leave it at that? I suspect your partner is not going to be the only one in the lesbian community who has problems with this. I think I've only retained two lesbian friends, and they weren't really part of the local community much anyway.

Dennis

Windrider - Thanks heaps for your input, its always good to see how the other person views things

Quote from: Dennis on September 16, 2008, 07:42:27 PM
I think Windrider's advice is sage. I do see a lot more lesbians very invested in lesbian identity than straight women invested in straight identity, but there is going to have to be some flex on both sides. Maybe in queer space, you can define yourselves as queer and leave it at that? I suspect your partner is not going to be the only one in the lesbian community who has problems with this. I think I've only retained two lesbian friends, and they weren't really part of the local community much anyway.

Dennis

I know alot of lesbians dont like FtMs and such, for a open minded group they seem very closed minded on this topic. But my partner is totaly not like this, the queer thing might appeal to her. We both want our relationship to work, so hopefully we'll adjust ok

Thanks guys for your input

H'mm..

Well, my situation is a bit different, as I'm a gay woman dating a mtf gay woman.. but.. we started dating before she decided to transition, sooo.. I kind of know what the idea of dating a guy is like to a gay woman.. at least, in the identity sense.

The thing is, that when someone realizes they're straight, it's no biggie.  They don't have to come out to anyone, they don't have to keep a running tally of who they are and aren't out to.. etc.  All kinds of things.  But when someone realizes they're gay.. it's a big part of their life, just because.. people have to be told eventually.  With all the stress and complications that entails.  Which may be part of the reason why we hold on to that identity more than straight people do.  It's a more important part of our lives.

So when me and her started dating, way at the beginning when I thought she wouldn't transition, I realized.. my family wouldn't get it.  At all.  And I was really terrified that they would all think I was 'only joking' when I said I was gay, or that I'd 'changed my mind,' because that would've been an absolute lie, and part of coming out is that you don't have to live the lie anymore.  And I also can't stand when someone tells me who I am instead of letting me define myself.  I didn't want to be seen as a straight woman.  After coming out to basically my whole family and all of my friends, how could I explain to them I was dating a [to outward appearances] guy?  Even the thought of going to a restaurant and not hearing "what would you ladies like?" felt strange to me.

Of course, that wasn't enough to make me choose not to date her.  Not at all. :) But it was definitely.. something stressing me out a little bit.  I understand why your girlfriend feels worried about it.

What I thought of, and what your girlfriend might be able to do.. is I figured, that if anyone needed/deserved an explanation, I would just tell them, "Yes, I am still gay.  I've just made an exception for him because he's so damn amazing."  How can anyone argue with that? ;)

And.. I wanted to mention.. I have never stopped identifying myself as a gay woman, not since I came out to myself 6 years ago.  Never stopped being gay.  It's not disrespect.. it's who I am.

Not sure if you've figured this out yet or not but here's my advice. Sit her down, time to have a talk. Explain that even though she is very much a lesbian, she's either going to have to say she doesn't do labels but mostly prefers girls, or say she is a lesbian and immediately launch into a speech about how the brain matters more than the body. Simply saying that she's gay with a boyfriend probably won't cut it for general society. Maybe for close friends, they'd get it, but otherwise. I'm guessing those are her only options. Gluck man. :)

Quote from: alexkidd on September 15, 2008, 11:01:53 PM
We both fully understand that we might have to go "our seperate ways"

But there must be other ways to cope and deal with issues together.

I mean MfF sometimes stay with there wives, how does the wife maintain the fact she is straight? even though she is now with a woman?

I've kind of been having this same thing with my girlfriend (I am an MtF). I was really worried she couldn't cope with it for awhile and prolonged our heart to heart about the issues. She kept saying things like...I don't like girls; I'm not bi; etc. She has basically come out as gay now, to me at least anyways. We are both from a highly conservative town where gay people are basically non-existent and thought very lowly of, and I think she was just scared of actually being in love with a woman. I wouldn't have kept pushing her if I didn't know it was true (too many things just did not add up with her being straight sometimes...she even asked me to set up a threesome with another girl).

So, this is just my opinion, but I think to stay together she has to be able to admit she is either straight or bi. After all, she is in love with a man.

Quoteshe is straight, which has big issues for her.

This is strange.. at the end of the day you are male and are changing your body into male.

QuoteIs this something we should even be worries about? I want to take her concerns into account and address them properly so there is no major dramas between us, but is she maybe over anyalising things to much?

I dont think it is something you both should be worrying about at all. And I think she is over thinking about it way to much!

Alex-

A lot has been said in this thread that is excellent advice, so I'll keep mine short.

Ultimately, the decision is her's. She has to decide if she still loves the person inside when you go on T. After spending 4 years with you, I think she does, but no one else can answer that for her.

I think the best thing you can do is to continue to love her, be yourself, and not rush her into a decision. If you just let it evolve organically instead of forcing the issue, it's more likely she'll stay with you out of inertia and adapt, if you force the choice then deeply held convictions often hold sway, and from the little description you've provided of her, she may choose her lesbian identity over her love for you.

Also - forcing her into a decision may seem like an act of male aggression/perogative to her, and that may be exactly what she's afraid of.

sexuality is fluid.  i can't really believe that anyone is 100% attracted to any one gender forever and always.  as i imagine your girlfriend might as well, i hate the term bisexual and refuse to catagorize myself as such.  if a label must be put on her sexuality, it would have to be pansexual which is all encompassing and includes trans.

this isn't really a good answer for you, but all my life i have considered myself straight.  now, i am with a mtf and have never been happier.  i was at first nervous to introduce her as my girlfriend but now it doesn't matter.

i don't really care what people think about me or my sexuality.  i care that i am in a good relationship with someone who cares about me.  i hope your girlfriend can look past how others may view her.

additionally, i have noticed that many trans/lesbian couples are still really involved in the lgbt community so she won't have to lose her sence of belonging if she doesn't want to.

i'm just curious if you started the T and how the relationship is going. my spouse is trans and we have a 4 year old that i gave birth to in a heterosexual relationship He wants to start T next year and my identity does come into question. (i'm very femme and dated multiple women, but don't identify as lesbian or bi - it's always a discussion as to what i am exactly - gender queer has been a possibility) just wondering how it's going for you.

I have been  half of a "lesbian" relationship and have been for over 15 years. My partner and I have never really been in the gay community for years now and she is not attached to being gay. She is very supportive of me and doesn't care what people label her, so we are not having the issues you and your girlfriend are. I think she will either have to  be ok with people calling her bisexual or the relationship wont work. They are all just labels and not who you are, but what someone calls you. If she is in love with you regardless of your gender then it will be fine. It may be too much for her. I guess I am lucky my GF identified as Bi to begin with. The lesbian community definitely has a hard time with FTM's at least the old school die hards do.
Myles

foxymcqueen - I started T about six weeks ago and I think my partner is more excitted about it then I am! ;D

She has been great though-out the whole thing and I now that i have started T and she has been introducing me as her "partner" and using male pronouns - its not as bad as she thought it would be. Everyone thinks I am a guy anyways, so its pretty cool. She is still fairly active in the GBLT community, but because I work alot and I am fairly shy, it is something she can do without me anyways. The main thing is our relationship is just fine. Which is good for both of us

Congratulations. I am glad it is working out for you!
Myles

I can 100% relate to this situation..I myself am an FTM's girlfriend and I was a lesbian for many years before meeting my current boyfriend...the only way of advice to help through this time is not to label her or push her to label herself in any way shape or form..I simply consider myself...marleen..I am who I am...it is no one's business to label me as anything...my co-workers (I work at a gay/lesbian bar) call me a "fairy" because I do what I want and no one can stop me..I am attracted to who I am attracted to...there is no shame in that...so my advice..stick with her through it she will come accustomed to whatever people want to call her...some will call her bi..some will call her a lesbian...some will call her straight..no matter what they say..the only thing that will matter in the end is if she is happy with you and who you are before during and after your transition...good luck!!

I think that she just needs your reassurance that your gender identity has nothing to do with her sexual orientation. Your transition does not make her any less "her".  She can maintain her autonomy while still supporting you in your transition but its a fine balance that she will have to just come to terms with over time.  I would venture to say that she, like my partner, will bend and sway with the "labels" that come with being in love with a trans person.

if her label is more important to her than her relationship with you...

::)

that says a lot.

  I am currently in a relationship with a VERY gender confuse (currently a )Girl. (We'll call her Ryan.) Her whole life has been turned upside down by her feel to become more masculine. This isn't to say she is butch. That is quite the contrary. She wants to go through top surgery and has been going FTM research crazy. Because of her identity crisis alot has happened, but we are getting through it.

  I am a newly out lesbian and pretty naive to alot of what it entails, but I know I'm a lesbian and that I love women and I love her very much. I don't have that sense of community like your partner, but I know that with any relationship or connection, that it hurts to break that bond.  She's probably held onto the "lesbian" label for years now and has made it part of her self so I can understand why she is afraid to take on the whole straight thing.

And really she isn't straight. She fell in love with you when you were a woman and she still loves you now. I think the whole idea of T scares alot of women in her situation. I know if Ryan started it that I'd be afraid of her becoming a whole new person. Even her voice would change and i'd have to take another look when ryan tells me they love me. That would be hard, but in the end if she is willing to fight for you, she will.

and Either way, a label is a label. It's like, I know that's a part of who she is, but who cares if people think that she's straight. You are a man yes? She's still a lesbian at her core, but you are her love. Her one and her only and that should really be what counts because as long as she knows who she is and is comfortable with herself than that's all that matters. ^^

I know i'd be hard for both of you. Big changes are, but you both are in a relationship and just need to work through it together~! ^^

I hope I've Helped out at least a little and this is a little scatterbrained. If you want you both can contact me at Kisschittybangbang@gmail.com. ^^ Hope everything works out.

Quote from: kisschittybangbang on March 02, 2009, 02:52:44 PM
I'd be afraid of her becoming a whole new person. Even her voice would change and i'd have to take another look when ryan tells me they love me.

I've had issues with that, myself.  I just have to keep remembering that no matter what, she's still the same person on the inside no matter what happens with anything else.. and that's what matters. :) That's the important thing.

I am a So of a FTM i understand how ur gf is saying that she is a lesbian but if she wants to stay with u shes gonna have to understand that she is now dating a male so she is either gonna have to just not define herself which she doesnt have to do she doesnt need a label to go by she could just be a girl that loves whoever she falls in love with no label but i mean i have only dated girls but i am now datin a FTM and i absolutley love him so i look at myself as straight now.. is that wrong?

hey everyone,
i'm an SO of an FTM.

from my perspective i'd like to say that, from the lesbian perspective, getting with my boyfriend has opened my eyes, and taught me a lot about perceptions of other people. i've learnt that as much as i feel wrong saying that i'm now bisexual perhaps, it doesn't matter what you're labeled as, as long as you're happy with whoever you're with, then everyone else will just have to deal with it. getting with my guy certainly shocked the majority of people i know, however they've seen how happy we are together. my guy classes himself as a bisexual transexual. i feel that labels like that are for the benefit of other people to understand you better, and so on that basis, i don't label myself as anything now, and let people make their own judgements. i'd rather not be tied down to a label because i don't know who i'm going to end up with next. getting with my guy was a surprise to me, and it took me a while to realise that i was very definitely attracted to him, which in turn confused me because i have always thought of him as a guy, not a girl.

someone posted near the beginning that they stayed away from lesbians because they see you as female. i'd just like to clarify that that is some serious stereotyping! not every lesbian is the same! just like every transgendered person isn't mentally unstable. as a self identified lesbian (previously) and having always seen my guy as a bloke, i feel that you're being silly by saying no to every single self identified lesbian! not everyone is going to see you as female, or think of you as female! and the other part of it is, if you're comfortable with having sex (pre-op), as my guy has told me, lesbians make the best lovers in bed.

i've had my mind opened a lot in the past year.

Congrats =)  It's been about a month since my {FTM} fiance told me about *his* want and need to transition, only days before our big {lesbian} engagement party.  I was instantly supportive, but it did take me about a week to truly 'digest' the whole idea.  I had SO many questions running through my head and felt very vulnerable, which wasn't easy for my independent, strong self.  I researched everything like crazy during the first week as we struggled to Ace-bind his chest.. I also bought us both journals to record our emotions and thoughts about this entire process, which has been a great outlet for us both.  Eventually, days later as we got into bed, I burst into tears, as an emotional release, and let him know I am in it for the long haul, and his gender will not change my love and devotion to him.  As a full-blown, femme lesbian, I was able to recognize my undying love for my "butch" girlfriend could not be shaken by a transition.

I know this isn't the case for everybody, but I know in my case I feel stronger about my love for this person, than I do about the slight changes that are slowly being made.  If this is what my fiance needs to live a full and happy life, then I will offer nothing but pure, honest support.  I am more dedicated to our relationship than I am to a label, even if this label has been a part of my life longer than he has.  I can proudly say that in less than a month, I now feel weird using the FEMALE words when speaking about him and I feel odd when I have to use his original female name. 

I think an equal amount of support and understanding needs to beo ffered to the SO of anybody going through a transition, which can be easy to forget at times.  I know I felt an instant mass of confusion, soon followed by a sense of mourning.  I felt as if a piece of the person I love, a large piece, was being taken away from me.  Just the feeling of the sense of possible loss can be overwhelming when you're talking about the person you are madly in love with.  I was scared to death that I was losing the person I was closest to in the entire world.  As the days went on I quickly discovered while many things would change, some small and some large, the foundation of what truly mattered would remain the same.  While the hormone therapy has not started, this journey has very much started in our home, and I can happily say we've settled into it more and more every day. 

It does take time, it does take patience, and it is scary, but all you can really do is reassure your SO that your heart and soul will remain the same--and all they can do is wait for time to prove you right.

Hi
And welcome. SO take a particular battering no matter what the relationship is. I do hope that your love remains strong, in both directions. He also needs to understand the honesty and strength that you are bringing to the relationship.

I wish you both well, Oh and welcome to Susan's, a nice place with (mainly) really nice supportive people.

Hugs

Cindy

It has not been a problem with us becasue we are an FTM.MTF married couple who both came from hetero lives.

With that out of the way, though, I DO have TWO suggestions to add to WR's.

1) Ask your GF to try the TransFamily Spouses List. It is for spouses and SOs of transpeople. There will be other lesbians there with whom she can relate.  Either or both of you can also join TransFamily Couples.  But the Spouses list is where your gf can really get support.  TransFamily is in our Links Section under Support Groups (or use the search box).

2) Plan on both attending Gender Odyssey in Seattle next Labor Day weekend. You'll meet many couples in the same boat.

Bright blessings

Robyn

I agree with some of what has been said. She shouldn't focus so much on being labeled as a lesbian or not, she should focus on your relationship and supporting you through this. If, after some time, she isn't able to do that, I don't think your relationship will end up working.

Quote from: alexkidd on September 16, 2008, 02:00:40 AM
has anyone whos been in this situtation out there got any ideas? Surely Im not the only FtM with a lesbian partner?

Or even if your MtF I'ld like to hear you view on how and if your partner coped ok?

I'm FTM and my straight male partner takes the view that my gender doesn't affect what orientation he is. He'd be cool with being a gay man if that is what he was born as but he wasn't. He doesn't think one relationship with someone the same gender makes him a gay man, he's just in a relationship that some people would describe as "gay".  What I look like in 10 or 20 years time might bother him but that's a different matter.

Hi, i'm asian and it's quite conservative where i live. i'm SO to an FTM on T, pre-op. personally i identify as bi, bt when we go out, i'd get a little confused cos socially i either have to be straight or gay. when i knew her, she was a butch. and now, she's on T and sometimes i i stil use the wrong pronoun. i'm still getting used to the transition of her to him and also on his new procurement of prosthetic, er... private parts... i guess sometimes it would be good if you could gv each other support and encouragement and to check in with each other periodically cos such issues can wear us down as time passes...