Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Some of this ground was covered on the "When to tell" thread but I think that op status makes a HUGE difference for those trying to date plain straight guys (not "admirers") so I was interested in your thoughts and experiences.

This guy and I started talking online and we became very friendly. We could (and can) talk for hours online about all kinds of stuff with always something interesting to pursue. He asked me out and I agreed. So far we have gone out twice, once on a picture-taking stroll (we both love photography) and once to the movies. The dates were great, we both had a great time. No kisses or anything of the sort yet, though I can see it would not be a stretch for that to happen.
I'm pretty much taking that possibility as a given and enjoying the relationship until that moment comes. He's really nice, but I'm not optimistic. So I'm trying to stretch the time before the proverbial hammer falls, having him know me and enjoy my company because there's always the little possibility that he may actually stay with me. Hopeless, I know.

Any thoughts? Have you any good stories to convince me he will not just reject me out of hand when I tell him I'm trans, preop and with surgery still far?

You know what I think, if he is really attracted to you then it will not neccessarily make a difference.  You can't also know 100% his sexual orientation.
Even if he is str8 he could (and should) accept you as a woman.  That being said if he is str8 he is not going to want to do anything genitally with you which I can understand so maybe that part of your relationship would have to wait until surgery.
If you are going to disclose to this guy though I would be really careful as lots of people have really repressed feelings that translate into some pretty nasty transphopbia.
I mean think about it, this guy is obviously attracted to you so when/ if he finds out that you are a pre -op trans woman that is going to make him question how he could be attracted to you in the first place.
Sounds like a total hypocrisy but some people can't handle what that says about them and so they take it out on the messenger if you know what I mean.

Be careful, stay safe and I wish all the best for you and your new relationship.

I do have a happy story...

I fell in love with a good friend, we are madly in love, and i told him everything... we are still very much in love, and he has even offered to help me save for surgery... he doesnt care when, he just cares that he has me... im the luckyest girl alive... happy endings do happen... Just because hes a man, doesnt mean he will be a retard... Some get trained well by thier mothers...

i was very touched by a movie i saw called, "a girl like me".  this story was and is very provocative..if anyone hasn't seen it, please do!  there's a powerful picture of tell/not tell in there.

personally i think it's good to tell before anything gets real serious.  sure, it might be the catalyst for making things not get serious, but, to me, it's surely worth the risk.  from my experience with transsexual relationships the feelings the untold get about trust and betrayal are often stronger then their negative feelings about transsexualism.  of course each case is individual and there is no one size fits all, but...it's something to consider.

i told my annie on our second date.  we've been married nearly 29 years, through years of denial, then transition and then surgery.  we're closer then ever.

milliontoone: Thanks for your words. I have the courage but I think that it's probably out of my control


rachael: Thanks for such a nice story, I wish you the best :)


pennyjane: I don't know. Telling really early is a surefire way of caricaturising yourself and I really don't want that. Been there. Though truthful and honest, doesn't really work. Thanks for your comment, glad to hear you guys have been together all this time :)

In my teens (17 I think) I was living away from home (en femme) and just beginning to figure out who I might be. (This was YEARS before SRS was possible.) I hung out with a bunch of 'party girls' and eventually got introduced to a young man of about 21. He was nice and we went out quite a few times but (of course) I had strict limits on how far I would let things go. After a few months, he PROPOSED to me. Of course I said no. I wasn't in love with him and of course marriage wasn't possible but he kept pressing me for a reason why I wouldn't marry him so eventually I had to tell him. The poor guy was so head over heels he offered to pay for my surgery in Morocco (like $30,000 U.S. in 1966!!!) if only I would marry him. (I have never come closer to selling my soul than I did that day!) But I wasn't in love with him and I hadn't really LIVED yet so I could not accept his proposal and broke off our relationship (for his sake).

About two years later one of my friends told me he had married a girl that reminded her of me. I thought that was sweet!

The power of love is really incredible. I hope he found happiness.

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 20, 2008, 08:34:35 PM
In my teens (17 I think) I was living away from home (en femme) and just beginning to figure out who I might be. (This was YEARS before SRS was possible.) I hung out with a bunch of 'party girls' and eventually got introduced to a young man of about 21. He was nice and we went out quite a few times but (of course) I had strict limits on how far I would let things go. After a few months, he PROPOSED to me. Of course I said no. I wasn't in love with him and of course marriage wasn't possible but he kept pressing me for a reason why I wouldn't marry him so eventually I had to tell him. The poor guy was so head over heels he offered to pay for my surgery in Morocco (like $30,000 U.S. in 1966!!!) if only I would marry him. (I have never come closer to selling my soul than I did that day!) But I wasn't in love with him and I hadn't really LIVED yet so I could not accept his proposal and broke off our relationship (for his sake).

About two years later one of my friends told me he had married a girl that reminded her of me. I thought that was sweet!

The power of love is really incredible. I hope he found happiness.








What a lovely story Jane, its even more beautiful because he excepted you where trans, my dream, I'v given it a lot of thought, we discussed it in another thread, Im very nervious about the whole issue, Im going to tell him, you'v posted a lot on it, and you ex husband fully surpport you.
Myself and future hubby have a wedding date set in January 2009, I love him and he says he love me, at the moment Im enjoying all the planing for the wedding, myself and nieces have agreed I won't wear white lol we've narrowed it down to 2 colors, cream or pink, I'II probably go for pink, but before I become his blushing pink bride, I have to tell him, Im going to tell him soon, its just picking the right time, I'v a good feeling about it, tell him and hopefully things just go well, wish me luck.
p

Quote from: pretty pauline on October 21, 2008, 03:50:08 PMI have to tell him, Im going to tell him soon, its just picking the right time, I'v a good feeling about it, tell him and hopefully things just go well, wish me luck.
p

Well for gawd's sake don't do it the way I did!!!! - in bed, after making love for the first time - that was STOOPID!

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 21, 2008, 05:03:02 PM

Well for gawd's sake don't do it the way I did!!!! - in bed, after making love for the first time - that was STOOPID!

She's pre-op.  I think he'd notice.  ;D


Jay

 :eusa_doh: D'oh! Your probably right!

Trust me... not always....

after we had sex for the first time, my man asked if i still had you know what.... it was deffinately staying hidden XD

How in heaven's name did you do that??? Poke it inside out???  :o

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Quote from: sneakersjay on October 21, 2008, 05:12:27 PM

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 21, 2008, 05:03:02 PM

Well for gawd's sake don't do it the way I did!!!! - in bed, after making love for the first time - that was STOOPID!

She's pre-op.  I think he'd notice.  ;D


Jay

Im 23years post op, so that issue it doesn't arise, Im all woman

Posted on: October 22, 2008, 02:56:45 pm

---

Its a pity this discussion is not taken serious, just all a joke, maybe I should have posted here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,41242.0.html Im not feeling very funny, Im a nervious wreck, anyway just hope it works out, as well as pre wedding neves, can't see the funny side at the moment sorry.........
p

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 22, 2008, 07:23:04 AM
How in heaven's name did you do that??? Poke it inside out???  :o

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Its tiny, and it tucks flat in just a pair of panties...

Well, I'm of the belief to be upfront with people I plan on being in relationships with.  It doesn't always work out, but they generally respect you for telling them.  Also, if you feel uncertain about what reason they attracted to you, then discuss it with them.  The key to relationships is communication (whether you're TS or not) and I think when you do feel comfortable about who you're with and how they see you, it takes A LOT of stress and discomfort out of the relationship because you know they love you for who you are rather than what you are.

Quote from: Rachael on October 23, 2008, 02:05:50 AM

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 22, 2008, 07:23:04 AM
How in heaven's name did you do that??? Poke it inside out???  :o

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Its tiny, and it tucks flat in just a pair of panties...

Oh.  When I think sex I think naked intercourse...

Quote from: sneakersjay on October 23, 2008, 01:44:42 PM

Quote from: Rachael on October 23, 2008, 02:05:50 AM

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 22, 2008, 07:23:04 AM
How in heaven's name did you do that??? Poke it inside out???  :o

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Its tiny, and it tucks flat in just a pair of panties...

Oh.  When I think sex I think naked intercourse...

not sure she meant that. there are some male bodied folk whose penis hides almost completely when soft. and if you take an organ that's naturally small anyway and add E, well there ya go.

Quote from: Rachael on October 20, 2008, 12:05:36 PM
I do have a happy story...

I fell in love with a good friend, we are madly in love, and i told him everything... we are still very much in love, and he has even offered to help me save for surgery... he doesnt care when, he just cares that he has me... im the luckyest girl alive... happy endings do happen... Just because hes a man, doesnt mean he will be a retard... Some get trained well by thier mothers...

I can support this sentiment (despite my tendency to be sexist against men >.> ).

I'm a lesbian, but I met a guy who "straightened" me out. ;) He's straight, no gay tendencies or anything (at least none he'll admit to, and he's not homophobic or anything like that). We started off online, which may be part of how I was able to get past the whole "He's a guy" thing (he plays female chars in the game we met in, which probably set me at ease a bit, even though he told me the first night we met that he's really a guy). Anyway, he and I were together as a couple for a year (and had known each other a few months longer than that) before I came out to him. Now, I wasn't just pre-op. I was pre-transition. That's part of why it took me a year to come out to him. I was terrified, not just of how he'd respond to me being trans, but to the fact that I hadn't even been able to start transition yet.

Suffice it to say, it hit him hard. Not so much that I was trans, but more that I had "decieved" him for a year (though I hadn't been quite as deceptive as his initial reaction suggested...I'd actually shown him a real picture of myself early in the relationship >.> ). He technically dumped me within an hour of my coming out, and then asked to be together again before the day was over. It still took him a couple weeks to fully come to terms with everything (though the whole time, the biggest issue for him was the deception). We've been together almost 2 years since that day now. He views me as a woman, pure and simple. He's changed his major in school from Art to Psychology (focus on Transgender issues). He's supporting me in my transition as best he can. He even came to visit me a couple months ago (i'd been on HRT for exactly 3 months at that point). Even though I had trouble being intimate, due both to being a lesbian and personal issues with my own body, he was patient and gentle with my feelings. He had no problem at all with my "bad plumbing" and did everything he could to help me feel like I really am a woman anyway. It was really the first time I got to feel like the woman I am. It was, quite simply, the best week of my life.

I have been dating a guy now for about 3 1/2 months, I threw in 1/2 cause we started getting pretty serious after about 2 weeks 1/2 a month :) I told him EVERYTHING I was totally open and honest with him, the only mistake I may have had was telling him EVERYTHING in my apartment, alone, but for me I had a good feeling about him we had joked some about sexual things and he seamed good to go not homophobic or anything like that in fact he may have had gay or bisexual feelings at one time, still working on that one ;) but he has been great treats me like a lady a real gentleman he asked me to move in with him so I can save money towards my corrective surgery, corrective cause I have some girl parts and some other parts not really girl and not really boy kinda alien looking LOL and he wants me to be as happy as I have made him  >:-)

Thanks all for your great replies, it does give me some hope :)
In regards to men not finding out when you're having sex (or close) while not naked, I can attest to that. It was a strange moment of joy, excitement and... mortal fear.

Yesterday we had dinner together and finally kissed for the first time. We were snuggled in the couch watching the first episodes of Futurama (which I hadn't seen in millennia) and he inched closer and closer; finally we eskimo-kissed as he held my hand and then full-on kissed. We stayed there talking and snuggling for a couple hours. Since my last boyfriend knew about me from the start and had no problems, it was a little weird being on guard again but he was very sweet and seems to like me a lot.

He's having a Halloween party later this week where I'll be meeting his friends. Right now I'm more worried about putting together my costume but thinking of the time when I have to tell him (and how) never really leaves me.

isterriis: "alien" is one good word ;)

OK I grilled him this weekend, not the grill literally but none the less I had to know more about his past, I showed him my post here and told him I use Susans as a guide sometimes, he was intrigued to say the least and thought this place was cool.... Well after the grilling he told me he used to think he was gay, he had sex with a few other men but still liked women, so he figured he was bisexual, he had been with another man about a week before we meet then when he found out I had alien parts he told me I was the perfect woman ??? I told him I'm far from perfect but I am a woman :) we had a great weekend never really left the bedroom LOL ;)

be careful... the whole relationship built around you being a woman with ladypole may colapse post srs..

LOL lady pole thats hilarious, if you are refering to the very limp small extra piece of alien skin that hangs down lifeless as my lady pole then we have nothing to worry about LOL

ROFL @ "ladypole"...

So last Sunday we went out halloween costume hunting. We walked around the stores hand in hand, not a care in the world but finding cool costumes. We then went for japanese food and ended up kissing in the car to the Pulp Fiction soundtrack.
Because everything has been so nice, I've planned to come out next week. He has the potential of me really falling for him so I think I should bring the moment to its proverbial crisis.

I'm thinking of doing it via email... is this a good idea? or is it better at a restaurant and face to face? This is so complicated :(

Quote from: soldierjane on October 28, 2008, 09:40:06 AMI'm thinking of doing it via email... is this a good idea? or is it better at a restaurant and face to face? This is so complicated

NO, NOT BY EMAIL! That is too impersonal!

You need to be face to face with him but you need more privacy than a restaurant but where there are people not too far away. Maybe a park? It is REALLY important for him to be there close to you so he can see how much it upsets you and how afraid you are. With any luck at all, his protective instincts will kick in and he can be the gallant knight coming to your rescue.

Quote from: soldierjane on October 28, 2008, 09:40:06 AM
ROFL @ "ladypole"...

So last Sunday we went out halloween costume hunting. We walked around the stores hand in hand, not a care in the world but finding cool costumes. We then went for japanese food and ended up kissing in the car to the Pulp Fiction soundtrack.
Because everything has been so nice, I've planned to come out next week. He has the potential of me really falling for him so I think I should bring the moment to its proverbial crisis.

I'm thinking of doing it via email... is this a good idea? or is it better at a restaurant and face to face? This is so complicated :(

Definitely not by email. I came out to my boyfriend via IM, but that's because we started out online and hadn't met in person yet.

Face to face is definitely the way to go, but I would also advise against a restaurant unless you can get a fairly private booth. However, even with that, it'd be very easy for him to make things incredibly embarassing and difficult for you if he turns out transphobic. Have people around, though.

Another issue with something impersonal like email: If he happens to turn out transphobic, he could give you an innocuous reply via email and then attack you alone in private in person. If you tell him face to face, you can see his immediate reaction. Unless he's got an incredible poker face, he's not likely to be able to trick you with a faked "positive" response. You'll know if he reacts positively or negatively.

I hate to sound pessimistic (especially considering how well my relationship has turned out), but better to be prepared than unprepared. As the Shin'a'in say, "That which is prepared for never happens." ;)

Quote from: soldierjane on October 28, 2008, 09:40:06 AM
So last Sunday we went out halloween costume hunting. We walked around the stores hand in hand, not a care in the world but finding cool costumes. We then went for japanese food and ended up kissing in the car to the Pulp Fiction soundtrack.
Because everything has been so nice, I've planned to come out next week. He has the potential of me really falling for him so I think I should bring the moment to its proverbial crisis.

I'm thinking of doing it via email... is this a good idea? or is it better at a restaurant and face to face? This is so complicated :(

Definitely not by e-mail, even tho' given that's how you met it makes a kind of sense, but I think things have got too personal between you for that anymore.

I'd suggest a quiet restaurant, you need to be in a public place just in case things turn really sour, but from your description of your guy that doesn't seem likely.

You've read my story from last Sunday (Just for us forum) ... I didn't pre-plan to "reveal" but we were one of the last couples left in the candlelit Italian restaurant, he was asking searching questions like why he'd never been introduced to my oldest and closest friends who I so often talked about, I felt I was deceiving him, and the dutch courage made the moment seem appropriate ...

Guess if I'd gone out with a plan to "reveal all" during a particular date I'd have been a nervous wreck by the time it came to telling ... maybe its better to have your words ready and pick the moment when the situation seems right ?

All I know was that when I told John and he realized I was serious, the first thing he asked was whether I still had a certain part of my anatomy ... asked twice ... despite having explored there with his hand more than a few times.  It was clearly important to him and its why I so fear for your outcome.

John reassured me that I was a woman as far as he was concerned, that what was in the distant past was not important, that he loved my smile, but what would have been his reaction if I was pre-op ?  Or when he finds out that I'm only four years transitioned ?  Or when he's had a few days to take it in ?

But I strongly believe that as a pre-op you are doing the right thing by coming out early, its something that you can't hide and you need to know your boyfriend's feelings before you invest your emotions.  Unlike me you don't have the luxury of four months to "hook" him, and the option never to tell if you don't feel the relationship will really last.

Laura x

Thank you for your thoughts, Laura, again I hope John stays with you:)
Today we went out for lunch together (we work in the same area of town) and I think that if I protract this too much I'll go bonkers. I have to either face his rejection or accede to the next step which seems to be a steady slide into head-over-heels country. I wasn't really going to see him today, but since these might be our last days, I just wanted to enjoy some time together, and that I certainly did.

The points you make in regards to the importance of being  postop are pretty much what drives my pessimism about the outcome.
I'm quite sure that if I was postop he'd be ok with it as he's pretty open minded and seems to like me a lot, but then again, preop is just not some people's cup of tea sexually, no matter how open minded they are. It's not a situation even *I* want to be in, really.

I hate being preop :(

Quote from: soldierjane on October 29, 2008, 04:04:20 PM
Thank you for your thoughts, Laura, again I hope John stays with you:)
Today we went out for lunch together (we work in the same area of town) and I think that if I protract this too much I'll go bonkers. I have to either face his rejection or accede to the next step which seems to be a steady slide into head-over-heels country. I wasn't really going to see him today, but since these might be our last days, I just wanted to enjoy some time together, and that I certainly did.

The points you make in regards to the importance of being  postop are pretty much what drives my pessimism about the outcome.
I'm quite sure that if I was postop he'd be ok with it as he's pretty open minded and seems to like me a lot, but then again, preop is just not some people's cup of tea sexually, no matter how open minded they are. It's not a situation even *I* want to be in, really.

I hate being preop :(

well how long have you known him? if he has fallen for you, maybe he's willing to wait for you until your surgery.

Quote from: soldierjane on October 29, 2008, 04:04:20 PM
Thank you for your thoughts, Laura, again I hope John stays with you:)
Today we went out for lunch together (we work in the same area of town) and I think that if I protract this too much I'll go bonkers. I have to either face his rejection or accede to the next step which seems to be a steady slide into head-over-heels country. I wasn't really going to see him today, but since these might be our last days, I just wanted to enjoy some time together, and that I certainly did.

The points you make in regards to the importance of being  postop are pretty much what drives my pessimism about the outcome.
I'm quite sure that if I was postop he'd be ok with it as he's pretty open minded and seems to like me a lot, but then again, preop is just not some people's cup of tea sexually, no matter how open minded they are. It's not a situation even *I* want to be in, really.

I hate being preop :(

One thing that's also true is people often won't even entirely accurately predict their own responses to such situations.

My BF is Californian. He's a liberal democrat and very open-minded. He's also very much straight, but would've never pegged himself for having a problem with dating a transwoman, especially not due to any homophobic reasons. Even though he was intellectually okay with my being a transwoman, it took him a while to really come to grips with my physical status, which was rather shocking to him.

On the other hand, he has since become so comfortable with it, that he was able to even make me feel comfortable enough with my current physical status to get intimate with him, something I didn't think I'd ever be willing to do until after surgery.

It's been almost two years since I came out to Nic, though, and I wasn't even on HRT back then.

I hope things go even better for you and your guy, soldierjane, than they have with me and Nic. ^^

And I agree, being pre-op sucks.

Well, well... it happened. While snuggled up in the couch at 3AM and after all his friends had left for the night, I told him. I am glad we got to know each other before the revelation happened, this is how I was able to gauge whether he was worth telling and he whether I was worth staying with.

I said I had to tell him something and broke into tears. I said "I wasn't born female". (Now, I do think that I was born female in my brain but such distinction would have been purely academic at the moment)

He was hugging me really close and he did not let go but went silent, almost too silent. He gives me little kisses every so often but he completely stopped. Obviously it was unexpected so he thought about it for a little while. There was a moment when I almost heard him in my mind saying that he would explain how he liked me but that unfortunately it would not work. He asked me if I had been afraid of telling him, and I responded that yes, I was pretty sure I was going to lose him. So he said "Well, I still want to date you", which floored me, but also did confirm a lot of good things I had thought about him. We eventually snuggled up together for the night.

Being preop is still a major downer personally, but having an accepting boyfriend really does take some of the pressure out of it. I'm in the clouds right now :D

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

~Simone.

That really is uplifting news. I'm so happy for you, honey, for both of you. *big hug*

I wish you much love and happiness in the future. :)

Quote from: soldierjane on November 03, 2008, 10:03:29 AM
Well, well... it happened. While snuggled up in the couch at 3AM and after all his friends had left for the night, I told him. I am glad we got to know each other before the revelation happened, this is how I was able to gauge whether he was worth telling and he whether I was worth staying with.

I said I had to tell him something and broke into tears. I said "I wasn't born female". (Now, I do think that I was born female in my brain but such distinction would have been purely academic at the moment)

He was hugging me really close and he did not let go but went silent, almost too silent. He gives me little kisses every so often but he completely stopped. Obviously it was unexpected so he thought about it for a little while. There was a moment when I almost heard him in my mind saying that he would explain how he liked me but that unfortunately it would not work. He asked me if I had been afraid of telling him, and I responded that yes, I was pretty sure I was going to lose him. So he said "Well, I still want to date you", which floored me, but also did confirm a lot of good things I had thought about him. We eventually snuggled up together for the night.

Being preop is still a major downer personally, but having an accepting boyfriend really does take some of the pressure out of it. I'm in the clouds right now :D

Awesome, soldierjane! It's so wonderful having an accepting boyfriend, isn't it? I hope things continue to go good for you.  ;D

I really love hearing nice love stories, especially coming from transwoman!
Good luck with your abviously great boyfriend Soldierjane!  :D

Quote from: soldierjane on November 03, 2008, 10:03:29 AMBeing preop is still a major downer personally, but having an accepting boyfriend really does take some of the pressure out of it. I'm in the clouds right now :D

Heh, I told ya.

Quote from: Melissa on October 23, 2008, 11:14:23 AMI think when you do feel comfortable about who you're with and how they see you, it takes A LOT of stress and discomfort out of the relationship because you know they love you for who you are rather than what you are.

Im comfortable with how my boyfriend sees me... but it will NEVER stop me feeling awkward about the fact im preop.... i hate it on its own, with my boyfriend its a constant reminder that im not right... that i wont be for a while... if you can totally forget about it, thats good for you...

I am also pre-op.....well, rather "non-op", and I find that there are many, many guys attracted to bodies like mine.   Many of these guys consider themselves straight, even though they are attracted to a feminine body with a penis.  And that's OK with me, I feel that people have a right to self-identify as they wish.
That being said, I would always tell the guy very soon into our relationship.  If it is a deal breaker I would rather know sooner rather than later.
Also, there are also many women attracted to "->-bleeped-<-" bodies.  We are actually quite unique, and unicorns are very desired by magical people.

ok... we differ there... i Would NEVER date a man who liked my body BECAUSE it had a penis.... I'm not unique... im just a girl. While i can apreciate that my body is rather attractive, and the presence of a penis and the combination of the two would make me prime meat to that sort of man, they claim to be straight, but if they want penis they are gay.




I have no interest in a man who wants me for man parts.

Quote from: Starbuck on November 07, 2008, 12:19:28 PMok... we differ there... i Would NEVER date a man who liked my body BECAUSE it had a penis.... I'm not unique... im just a girl. While i can apreciate that my body is rather attractive, and the presence of a penis and the combination of the two would make me prime meat to that sort of man, they claim to be straight, but if they want penis they are gay.

I have no interest in a man who wants me for man parts.

Strongly agreed.  That's always been my biggest hang-up with dating guys.  That's why discussing why he wants to be with me was so important.