General Discussions => General discussions => Polls => Topic started by: cindianna_jones on October 21, 2008, 04:38:28 PM Return to Full Version
Title: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: cindianna_jones on October 21, 2008, 04:38:28 PM
Post by: cindianna_jones on October 21, 2008, 04:38:28 PM
So let's hold our own little election. It doesn't matter if you are in the USA or a citizen. I just want to see how WE transgender people feel about this.
Post a comment if you like. BUT Pulease people... don't go after anyone else for their opinion.
Cindi
Post a comment if you like. BUT Pulease people... don't go after anyone else for their opinion.
Cindi
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Sarah Louise on October 21, 2008, 04:42:41 PM
Post by: Sarah Louise on October 21, 2008, 04:42:41 PM
My transgendered issues have nothing to do with how I vote.
Sarah L.
Sarah L.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: NicholeW. on October 21, 2008, 04:50:49 PM
Post by: NicholeW. on October 21, 2008, 04:50:49 PM
I don't know if my trans-issues have anything to do with my voting preference or not. My experience will certainly form my inclination. This one I simply find unreasonable to vote any way other than I did in this poll.
Nichole
Nichole
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 21, 2008, 04:53:04 PM
Post by: tekla on October 21, 2008, 04:53:04 PM
Given the shape of things, trans related issues are about #13 on my top ten things I vote on, or because of. It's one of those 'having solved all other problems...." deals.
And I'm not even looking for good. I'd settle for 'less bad' at this point.
And I'm not even looking for good. I'd settle for 'less bad' at this point.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: cindianna_jones on October 21, 2008, 05:28:10 PM
Post by: cindianna_jones on October 21, 2008, 05:28:10 PM
For me it's all about a real energy production plan. If it were big enough, it could solve many of the economic problems.... sort of like FDR's New Deal. But it would have to be massive.
Neither presidential candidate comes close to what I'd like to see in this arena. But it seems to me that Obama at least is willing to commit some substantial funding for alternative energy sources.
Cindi
Neither presidential candidate comes close to what I'd like to see in this arena. But it seems to me that Obama at least is willing to commit some substantial funding for alternative energy sources.
Cindi
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 21, 2008, 05:30:14 PM
Post by: tekla on October 21, 2008, 05:30:14 PM
You know Carter started all of that, and Reagan gutted it. How much further ahead would we be now if we had not elected Republicans back then?
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: debbie j on October 21, 2008, 06:22:51 PM
Post by: debbie j on October 21, 2008, 06:22:51 PM
frist off thanks Cindi for the poll . iam usa myself and i know whom iam voteing for . which is odd this election yr cause i was able to
make my choice after i had looked and both plains of both the canadates. needless to say it was a no brainer. and when the debates
came and everything. that just proved to me even more with out any questions at all whom i will be voteing for. and normaly i dont
make this choice untill the last minit. and iam at the voteing place
make my choice after i had looked and both plains of both the canadates. needless to say it was a no brainer. and when the debates
came and everything. that just proved to me even more with out any questions at all whom i will be voteing for. and normaly i dont
make this choice untill the last minit. and iam at the voteing place
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Pica Pica on October 21, 2008, 06:47:28 PM
Post by: Pica Pica on October 21, 2008, 06:47:28 PM
This sounds ignorant, but is that all the choice? One pair or another pair?
True, we don't vote for the PM here so I spose even less choice, but still.
True, we don't vote for the PM here so I spose even less choice, but still.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: flutter on October 21, 2008, 07:09:37 PM
Post by: flutter on October 21, 2008, 07:09:37 PM
Quote from: Pica Pica on October 21, 2008, 06:47:28 PM
This sounds ignorant, but is that all the choice? One pair or another pair?
True, we don't vote for the PM here so I spose even less choice, but still.
Well, you can vote Nader.
And, since we have the electoral College, and I live in a state that is gauranteed blue - I may just lodge a protest vote for good ole Ralph.
If McCain manages to win NY by one vote, then I guess I'll just have to shoot myself, but I really doubt it.
Electoral college needs to go before the elections mean anything, what we have right now is 50 separate elections, and that requires the candidates spread themselves too thin and pay a disproportionate amount of attention to the rural areas because the big states are locked up.
So, we get platforms that are designed to cater to special local interests, rather then focused on the big issues, like the environment or healthcare.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Janet_Girl on October 21, 2008, 07:17:05 PM
Post by: Janet_Girl on October 21, 2008, 07:17:05 PM
I am a registered Republican only because it was more of a protest against Billy than anything else. But I do not trust the republicans at all, especially with McCain and Palin leading the way.
In Oregon we already have our ballots and Yes I am voting for Obama/Biden. After the election I will most likely change parties again, back to Democrat.
In Oregon we already have our ballots and Yes I am voting for Obama/Biden. After the election I will most likely change parties again, back to Democrat.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: joannatsf on October 21, 2008, 07:37:24 PM
Post by: joannatsf on October 21, 2008, 07:37:24 PM
Everytime I see or hear Ralph Nader I'm reminded of this dialogue between Lara and Monsieur Komarovsky ( Rod Steiger) in the movie Doctor Zhivago.
Oh yea, to quote another great writer, Mae West, When given a choice between 2 evils, I usually pick the one I haven't tried before. Obama
Quote
Komarovsky: [speaking of Pasha Antipov] Lara, I am determined to save you from a dreadful error. There are two kinds of men, and only two, and that young man is one kind. He is high-minded. He is pure. He is the kind of man that the world pretends to look up to and in fact despises. He is the kind of man who breeds unhappiness; particularly in women. Now, do you understand?
Oh yea, to quote another great writer, Mae West, When given a choice between 2 evils, I usually pick the one I haven't tried before. Obama
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: flutter on October 21, 2008, 09:00:49 PM
Post by: flutter on October 21, 2008, 09:00:49 PM
I know Ralph doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell.
It's about keeping the Democrats honest.
Every vote they lose to the green party is a vote they need to court next election. It keeps them from drifting too far to the center.
It's about keeping the Democrats honest.
Every vote they lose to the green party is a vote they need to court next election. It keeps them from drifting too far to the center.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Janet_Girl on October 21, 2008, 09:09:15 PM
Post by: Janet_Girl on October 21, 2008, 09:09:15 PM
Or it can help put the Republicans in office.......Again.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Buffy on October 21, 2008, 09:27:15 PM
Post by: Buffy on October 21, 2008, 09:27:15 PM
As a non-American, I normally find the US presidential elections boring, mainly as I dont understand the college voting system (and how someone can get the least votes % wise and win).
However, this year I have been reasonably interested in the whole process starting with the Obama / Clinton battle, the appointment of the two deadend vice presidents and the presidential debates.
Who will win ?, my money would be on Obama. America needs change and I cannot see that happening with McCain, but it will be close.
Ohhh and whats Joe Plumber got to do with it all?
Buffy
However, this year I have been reasonably interested in the whole process starting with the Obama / Clinton battle, the appointment of the two deadend vice presidents and the presidential debates.
Who will win ?, my money would be on Obama. America needs change and I cannot see that happening with McCain, but it will be close.
Ohhh and whats Joe Plumber got to do with it all?
Buffy
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Hypatia on October 21, 2008, 09:30:04 PM
Post by: Hypatia on October 21, 2008, 09:30:04 PM
Ralph Nader? Forget that has-been. The actual Green Party candidate this year is former congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. Her running mate is Rosa Clemente. I actually like what these two women are saying, you can hear them sometimes on Democracy Now with Amy Goodman. If I lived in a state that was safely blue for Obama, I would vote for McKinney/Clemente. But I'm in Virginia which is teetering on the knife edge. So I'm voting for Obama because every Democratic vote counts here.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: flutter on October 21, 2008, 09:53:38 PM
Post by: flutter on October 21, 2008, 09:53:38 PM
Quote from: Janet Lynn on October 21, 2008, 09:09:15 PM
Or it can help put the Republicans in office.......Again.
NY is a blue state. There is no way in hell it's going to anyone but Obama.
If my protest vote is the one that throws the election, I will personally fall on my knife.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Hazumu on October 22, 2008, 12:01:46 AM
Post by: Hazumu on October 22, 2008, 12:01:46 AM
Quote from: Pica Pica on October 21, 2008, 06:47:28 PMSorry, that's the way us yankers play the game. ;) =K
This sounds ignorant, but is that all the choice? One pair or another pair?
True, we don't vote for the PM here so I spose even less choice, but still.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: shanetastic on October 22, 2008, 12:08:25 AM
Post by: shanetastic on October 22, 2008, 12:08:25 AM
Quote from: Buffy on October 21, 2008, 09:27:15 PM
Ohhh and whats Joe Plumber got to do with it all?
Buffy
Joe the plumber is just a symbol of the regular working class American. McCain (i think i'm not 100% hehe) uses him to make connections to Obamas taxing I believe. His whole argument was on the aspect of something like, take Joe the plumbers money and give it to Obama so he can disperse it, that sounds right. . . or something like that.
Don't hold me to any of this haha my mind can only hold so much information and it's at it's caps for right now :]
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: The Bri Girl on October 22, 2008, 12:53:01 AM
Post by: The Bri Girl on October 22, 2008, 12:53:01 AM
Hi!
The electoral college process was created with a dual role in mind. First it was intended to keep the population at large from voting a demagogue into office and throwing the republic away through "bread and circuses" as happened in ancient rome, and secondly to allow for balance among the states within the Union. I think it was also to allow the wealthy/educated segment of Colonial society to have a veto on the public election of chief magistrate. It's not a bad scheme, but it was hijacked in the 1800's by the growing political party system. Currently most states' party apparatus APPOINTS people to College positions, not my understanding of the intent.
Anyways, I'm certainly voting the Obama ticket. Living as I do right next to Wasilla, and recently in that ugly little burg, I can't concience voting the republican ticket. I see way too much greed, denial, outright ignorance, and willful misgovernment, and willingness to abuse others for personal gain. Besides, Ms. Palin barely passed Highschool at all, is abusive of power, having used her office to settle personal vendettas, made extremely poor choices in public spending (Wasilla has a new skate park and sports center paid for with funds the Federal government provided us to build a sewage treatment plant- um, we still don't have that), and thinks she's been personally selected by God to spearhead the Endtimes. *shudder*
Nonetheless, She's personable, and remembers names and faces like nobody's buisness. I guess that's something nice.
If McCain chose her to run with him, then it was an appalling lack of judgement. If people within his party forced her on him, then it suggests he is a puppet of unseen powers. Either way, not good.
Obama is human, so he has failings, but he seems intelligent and well intentioned, and willing to work hard. He's been in the position of a poor person before and I think he has compassion for others. How can that not be a good choice under any circumstances?
-Brianne
The electoral college process was created with a dual role in mind. First it was intended to keep the population at large from voting a demagogue into office and throwing the republic away through "bread and circuses" as happened in ancient rome, and secondly to allow for balance among the states within the Union. I think it was also to allow the wealthy/educated segment of Colonial society to have a veto on the public election of chief magistrate. It's not a bad scheme, but it was hijacked in the 1800's by the growing political party system. Currently most states' party apparatus APPOINTS people to College positions, not my understanding of the intent.
Anyways, I'm certainly voting the Obama ticket. Living as I do right next to Wasilla, and recently in that ugly little burg, I can't concience voting the republican ticket. I see way too much greed, denial, outright ignorance, and willful misgovernment, and willingness to abuse others for personal gain. Besides, Ms. Palin barely passed Highschool at all, is abusive of power, having used her office to settle personal vendettas, made extremely poor choices in public spending (Wasilla has a new skate park and sports center paid for with funds the Federal government provided us to build a sewage treatment plant- um, we still don't have that), and thinks she's been personally selected by God to spearhead the Endtimes. *shudder*
Nonetheless, She's personable, and remembers names and faces like nobody's buisness. I guess that's something nice.
If McCain chose her to run with him, then it was an appalling lack of judgement. If people within his party forced her on him, then it suggests he is a puppet of unseen powers. Either way, not good.
Obama is human, so he has failings, but he seems intelligent and well intentioned, and willing to work hard. He's been in the position of a poor person before and I think he has compassion for others. How can that not be a good choice under any circumstances?
-Brianne
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 01:10:57 AM
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 01:10:57 AM
The electoral college process was created with a dual role in mind. First it was intended to keep the population at large from voting a demagogue into office and throwing the republic away through "bread and circuses" as happened in ancient rome, and secondly to allow for balance among the states within the Union. I think it was also to allow the wealthy/educated segment of Colonial society to have a veto on the public election of chief magistrate.
No more calls, we have a winner. Its not that the people elect the president, in fact, the states do, which is why its THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and not just America.
No more calls, we have a winner. Its not that the people elect the president, in fact, the states do, which is why its THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and not just America.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: flutter on October 22, 2008, 09:55:20 AM
Post by: flutter on October 22, 2008, 09:55:20 AM
Quote from: tekla on October 22, 2008, 01:10:57 AM
The electoral college process was created with a dual role in mind. First it was intended to keep the population at large from voting a demagogue into office and throwing the republic away through "bread and circuses" as happened in ancient rome, and secondly to allow for balance among the states within the Union. I think it was also to allow the wealthy/educated segment of Colonial society to have a veto on the public election of chief magistrate.
No more calls, we have a winner. Its not that the people elect the president, in fact, the states do, which is why its THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and not just America.
I recognize the origin of the electoral college, but I feel it's an outdated concept. It leaves people feeling disenfranchised because their votes truly don't matter. If you're in a solid red state and you're a democrat, you have no incentive to go to the polls. You have no incentive to become informed, because no matter what you think/feel/know - your vote is eventually going to aggregate into the tally of the other party.
I think the Parliamentary election process actually leads to a government that is more closely representative of the peoples wishes.
I also love watching BBC to see the PM answer a volley of questions from parliament. If our leaders had that kind of direct accountability, we'd see a different caliber of leader. I know Bush could never handle it the way Tony Blair did.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 10:02:56 AM
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 10:02:56 AM
Had the system been allowed to work in 2000, the Florida vote would not have passed the certification process in time, been discounted, and the election would have gone to the House. Though I'm sure that even in that process Bush would have won, it would have been a very different deal had he been put into power via Congress instead of the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Pica Pica on October 22, 2008, 02:35:48 PM
Post by: Pica Pica on October 22, 2008, 02:35:48 PM
Quote from: flutter on October 22, 2008, 09:55:20 AM
I think the Parliamentary election process actually leads to a government that is more closely representative of the peoples wishes.
I also love watching BBC to see the PM answer a volley of questions from parliament. If our leaders had that kind of direct accountability, we'd see a different caliber of leader. I know Bush could never handle it the way Tony Blair did.
I wish I had your confidence :)
If our government followed people's wishes Britain would be different - in some ways worse if you listen to the people calling for the death penalty - or better if they listened to the huge antiwar marches....
I am have also been an avid viewer of prime-ministers question time, but for me it's entertainment, skilled players of a long played game.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: flutter on October 22, 2008, 02:43:21 PM
Post by: flutter on October 22, 2008, 02:43:21 PM
I may not have agreed with Blair on the issues, but he was definitely eloquent and fun to watch. (I guess it's easier to enjoy the performance when the decisions don't really effect you)
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 02:58:10 PM
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 02:58:10 PM
skilled players of a long played game
Thank you Pica for that insider look, I think in the end that if I understood the issues and policies that like our press shows over here its far more posturing then it is truth.
Thank you Pica for that insider look, I think in the end that if I understood the issues and policies that like our press shows over here its far more posturing then it is truth.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Sephirah on October 22, 2008, 03:10:34 PM
Post by: Sephirah on October 22, 2008, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: Pica Pica on October 22, 2008, 02:35:48 PM
I am have also been an avid viewer of prime-ministers question time, but for me it's entertainment, skilled players of a long played game.
This is true, and the media even draft in pundits to rate the various players' performances each week. Ex politicians, political correspondants... none seeming particularly bothered by what is actually being discussed but seemingly more intent on who 'won' or 'lost'.
"Oh, Brown got slaughtered by Cameron this week! Totally battered."
or
"Gordon scored a few points with that answer, he held his own under a very flacid Tory performance."
It's like political baseball. Tony Blair was a charismatic man, and could make PMQs a show of personality and bravado... same thing with William Hague and David Cameron to a lesser extent, they are all skilled orators and capable of thinking on their feet. And when Blair was PM, it was like the Tories were constantly trying to strike him out while he attempted to knock their questions out of the ball park. Entertaining, if ultimately style over substance.
Gordon Brown doesn't really have a personality though, in my opinion. He's like political wallpaper. And now it seems more like poking a bear with a stick to see how angry you can make it. :-\
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 03:20:36 PM
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 03:20:36 PM
We just ask Sara Palin simple questions and see how bad she can screw them up. It would be funny if it were not so true.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Pica Pica on October 22, 2008, 03:32:10 PM
Post by: Pica Pica on October 22, 2008, 03:32:10 PM
The more I hear about Palin, the more worried I am that she will 'do a Boris' and win because people find her gaffes amusing. (Which is pretty much how the mayor of London, Boris Johnson found himself in that position).
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: TamTam on October 22, 2008, 03:37:44 PM
Post by: TamTam on October 22, 2008, 03:37:44 PM
I just read an article about how Palin is actually McCain's largest liability. She has a less than 50% approval rating, now that things have calmed down after the "OMG SHE'S SO HAWT" nonsense during the first few weeks, and the vast majority think she's not ready to become president in the event McCain dies.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Nero on October 22, 2008, 03:42:03 PM
Post by: Nero on October 22, 2008, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: TamTam on October 22, 2008, 03:37:44 PM
I just read an article about how Palin is actually McCain's largest liability. She has a less than 50% approval rating, now that things have calmed down after the "OMG SHE'S SO HAWT" nonsense during the first few weeks, and the vast majority think she's not ready to become president in the event McCain dies.
In that event, think I'd flee the country.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: TamTam on October 22, 2008, 03:45:01 PM
Post by: TamTam on October 22, 2008, 03:45:01 PM
I was just telling a friend the other day, how I honestly never thought that anyone could be more incompetent a president than George Bush- but that Palin could probably manage it.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: flutter on October 22, 2008, 04:01:40 PM
Post by: flutter on October 22, 2008, 04:01:40 PM
If McCain wins, I'm out of here.
Canada is starting to swing right as well, so that's not an option.
I'm thinking Denmark or France.
Canada is starting to swing right as well, so that's not an option.
I'm thinking Denmark or France.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Pica Pica on October 22, 2008, 04:36:16 PM
Post by: Pica Pica on October 22, 2008, 04:36:16 PM
I'd choose Denmark
Enlightened welfare state, little wage gap, cafe's and they all speak english
(and aren't french).
Posted on: October 22, 2008, 04:35:29 pm
oh, and no sarkozy in denmark of course.
Enlightened welfare state, little wage gap, cafe's and they all speak english
(and aren't french).
Posted on: October 22, 2008, 04:35:29 pm
oh, and no sarkozy in denmark of course.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: flutter on October 22, 2008, 04:41:26 PM
Post by: flutter on October 22, 2008, 04:41:26 PM
I should start boning up on Danish just in case.
I could even switch to my mom's maiden name when I go for the name change - blend in better. (mom is danish/french)
I could even switch to my mom's maiden name when I go for the name change - blend in better. (mom is danish/french)
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 05:26:17 PM
Post by: tekla on October 22, 2008, 05:26:17 PM
win because people find her gaffes amusing
Funny, that's how we picked our city supervisors.
Funny, that's how we picked our city supervisors.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: joannatsf on October 22, 2008, 06:33:32 PM
Post by: joannatsf on October 22, 2008, 06:33:32 PM
Quote from: tekla on October 22, 2008, 05:26:17 PM
win because people find her gaffes amusing
Funny, that's how we picked our city supervisors.
I voted on that incredible array of local propositions (22 for SF alone) using the reverse Newsome indicator. If Gavin is for it, I should probably be against it. I vote absentee and it took me a couple hours to wade through all of the combined state and city issues. By the time I got to the end where they put the non-binding resolutions I voted against them just because I was pissed at the amount of time I wasted reading them! :icon_blahblah:
Title: adios, gringos
Post by: Hypatia on October 23, 2008, 01:43:32 AM
Post by: Hypatia on October 23, 2008, 01:43:32 AM
If Palin is elected, I'm heading for Spain. Less corruption than in Italy, less racism than in France, better climate than in Scandinavia, and food I like, plus for once I would be in a country of people who look like me. And I'm much more familiar with the Spanish language than Danish. But best of all, Spain has the most advanced LGBT rights in Europe, including same-sex marriage and transgender equal rights.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 23, 2008, 10:08:27 AM
Post by: tekla on October 23, 2008, 10:08:27 AM
This is my country too. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let a bunch of pinheaded pukes take it away from me without a fight. We have gay marriage here too, and are fighting them to keep it. We have a pretty good LGBT rights deal going on too. Also worth fighting to keep.
And if they really win here, do you think the forces of darkness are not going to try elsewhere?
And if they really win here, do you think the forces of darkness are not going to try elsewhere?
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Melissa on October 23, 2008, 11:30:49 AM
Post by: Melissa on October 23, 2008, 11:30:49 AM
I would vote Obama, but it's pretty irrelevant since the state I live in is strongly democratic anyways.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 23, 2008, 11:37:29 AM
Post by: tekla on October 23, 2008, 11:37:29 AM
Yeah, one more vote for Obama in SF is going to be a teaspoon into the ocean, but as Claire said above, we have ballots that read like novels. So its more than one issue.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: goingdown on October 23, 2008, 12:59:17 PM
Post by: goingdown on October 23, 2008, 12:59:17 PM
In 2000 Florida was the state that made the president, in 2004 it was Ohio and in 2008 it would be.... I am not sure Virginia or Colorado?
Posted on: October 23, 2008, 12:53:51 pm
Posted on: October 23, 2008, 12:53:51 pm
Quote from: Melissa on October 23, 2008, 11:30:49 AMNot sure. The governor race of your state is probably #2 second race in the nation. And it will energize GOP supporters.
I would vote Obama, but it's pretty irrelevant since the state I live in is strongly democratic anyways.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: tekla on October 23, 2008, 01:06:26 PM
Post by: tekla on October 23, 2008, 01:06:26 PM
I think its going to be Penn and the old Northwest - Minn, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Indinana and Ohio. If Obama carries that swath of states then Colorado and Nevada are not going to matter. Its interesting that McCain is being forced to run in North Carolina, Virginia, and even his home state, all long standing Red voters.
But the real deal is that Obama has a pile more money than McCain does, and its going to pour into those states in the last week.
For us in SF, unless I see them on some national news show, I've never seen a McCain or Obama ad, they just don't buy any local time here.
But the real deal is that Obama has a pile more money than McCain does, and its going to pour into those states in the last week.
For us in SF, unless I see them on some national news show, I've never seen a McCain or Obama ad, they just don't buy any local time here.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: cindybc on October 23, 2008, 01:21:47 PM
Post by: cindybc on October 23, 2008, 01:21:47 PM
Well, let's see, I belive it must be close to thirty years since I voted, ehhh, well, I truly don't recollect. The last time I voted was when my mate who lived in Washington DC at the time was up for a visit drove me to the polls to vote. Before that I believe it was back in 18 and 62 when my old grey mare got shot in butt the civil war..... er that's another chapter in another story.
Cindy
Cindy
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 23, 2008, 02:23:58 PM
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 23, 2008, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: flutter on October 21, 2008, 07:09:37 PMIf McCain wins NY by 1 vote, I'm sure that we will be happy to shoot you. :P
Well, you can vote Nader.
And, since we have the electoral College, and I live in a state that is gauranteed blue - I may just lodge a protest vote for good ole Ralph.
If McCain manages to win NY by one vote, then I guess I'll just have to shoot myself, but I really doubt it.
Electoral college needs to go before the elections mean anything, what we have right now is 50 separate elections, and that requires the candidates spread themselves too thin and pay a disproportionate amount of attention to the rural areas because the big states are locked up.
So, we get platforms that are designed to cater to special local interests, rather then focused on the big issues, like the environment or healthcare.
and don't think we're going to forget to do it, either.
Posted on: October 23, 2008, 02:07:32 pm
Quote from: flutter on October 22, 2008, 09:55:20 AMI don't know. If your state is red (like the commies) then you would think it would inspire people to get out and work against that within the state. If you give up and let the reds win there will never be a change. Somebody needs to get out there and try to educate people. Because if you can change one state, you can make a difference of some kind.
I recognize the origin of the electoral college, but I feel it's an outdated concept. It leaves people feeling disenfranchised because their votes truly don't matter. If you're in a solid red state and you're a democrat, you have no incentive to go to the polls. You have no incentive to become informed, because no matter what you think/feel/know - your vote is eventually going to aggregate into the tally of the other party.
I think the Parliamentary election process actually leads to a government that is more closely representative of the peoples wishes.
I also love watching BBC to see the PM answer a volley of questions from parliament. If our leaders had that kind of direct accountability, we'd see a different caliber of leader. I know Bush could never handle it the way Tony Blair did.
Posted on: October 23, 2008, 02:16:40 pm
Quote from: TamTam on October 22, 2008, 03:37:44 PMHow can a woman have all the qualities of a babe, but I still am not attracted to her? I'm capable of being attracted to a tree stump if you toss a skirt on it. Maybe I see the inner person before I see the chocolately outer coating.
I just read an article about how Palin is actually McCain's largest liability. She has a less than 50% approval rating, now that things have calmed down after the "OMG SHE'S SO HAWT" nonsense during the first few weeks, and the vast majority think she's not ready to become president in the event McCain dies.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: cindybc on October 23, 2008, 02:24:41 PM
Post by: cindybc on October 23, 2008, 02:24:41 PM
Oh! Neglected to say, to busy straying off topic I guess, I put my little dot in the circle in front of Obama name. McCain has already shot all his toes off with his six shooter. Geeee I guess he had ugly toes. ;D
Cindy
Cindy
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 23, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 23, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
Quote from: TamTam on October 22, 2008, 03:45:01 PMThe difference between bush and palin is that bush had a fortune and a family that provided him with connections to powerful people. Palin doesn't have that. If she became president, I sense that congress would address that issue with impeachment. They would have no choice.
I was just telling a friend the other day, how I honestly never thought that anyone could be more incompetent a president than George Bush- but that Palin could probably manage it.
My thought at this time is that if McPalin wins, Palin will do something that gets her investigated and booted anyway. Then McCant can choose his best bud, joe Leiberman.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: flutter on October 23, 2008, 05:11:19 PM
Post by: flutter on October 23, 2008, 05:11:19 PM
Rebis -
I'm in a solid blue state, I could drive a couple hours and go stumping in Pennsylvania, but I don't think I'm gonna help all that much. ;)
My state is going to Obama, McCain hasn't even tried to campaign here. Voting for a third party candidate not only registers a dislike for this monopoly of only two choices we have today, it forces the campaigns to consider alternative view points, and why those people didn't vote for them.
I've protest voted in 2 out of 3 elections. Perot, Gore, Nader. I was pissed at "Don't ask, Don't tell" so I refused to vote for Clinton (I was only 20), Gore/Bush I actually liked Gore. Bush/Kerry...... I thought Kerry was a marginal improvement, but I knew the state was going to him, and I was pissed that the media railroaded Dean out of the campaign (I *did* door to door signature gathering for Dean).
I don't regret my decisions, because in each case, Clinton, Gore and Kerry carried the state, just like Obama will.
However, I actually like Obama - so I'm still deciding if I'm going to protest vote or just straight up vote.
Since the electoral college negates the meaning of my vote in actually choosing a president, I chose to use it in a way that gives it meaning to me.
I'm in a solid blue state, I could drive a couple hours and go stumping in Pennsylvania, but I don't think I'm gonna help all that much. ;)
My state is going to Obama, McCain hasn't even tried to campaign here. Voting for a third party candidate not only registers a dislike for this monopoly of only two choices we have today, it forces the campaigns to consider alternative view points, and why those people didn't vote for them.
I've protest voted in 2 out of 3 elections. Perot, Gore, Nader. I was pissed at "Don't ask, Don't tell" so I refused to vote for Clinton (I was only 20), Gore/Bush I actually liked Gore. Bush/Kerry...... I thought Kerry was a marginal improvement, but I knew the state was going to him, and I was pissed that the media railroaded Dean out of the campaign (I *did* door to door signature gathering for Dean).
I don't regret my decisions, because in each case, Clinton, Gore and Kerry carried the state, just like Obama will.
However, I actually like Obama - so I'm still deciding if I'm going to protest vote or just straight up vote.
Since the electoral college negates the meaning of my vote in actually choosing a president, I chose to use it in a way that gives it meaning to me.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: TamTam on October 23, 2008, 05:16:37 PM
Post by: TamTam on October 23, 2008, 05:16:37 PM
Quote from: Rebis on October 23, 2008, 02:23:58 PM
Maybe I see the inner person before I see the chocolately outer coating.
Hear, hear! :eusa_clap:
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: goingdown on October 24, 2008, 05:01:07 AM
Post by: goingdown on October 24, 2008, 05:01:07 AM
In 2000 Florida was the state that made the president, in 2004 it was Ohio and in 2008 it would be.... I am not sure Virginia or Colorado?
Posted on: October 23, 2008, 12:53:51 pm[hr
I think that that is the outcome. In case Obama wins Virginia he is a clear frontrunner. In case Obama wins all states that Gore and Kerry carried before but no more Colorado will probably give victory to McCain.
Posted on: October 23, 2008, 12:53:51 pm[hr
I think that that is the outcome. In case Obama wins Virginia he is a clear frontrunner. In case Obama wins all states that Gore and Kerry carried before but no more Colorado will probably give victory to McCain.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Hypatia on October 24, 2008, 04:58:16 PM
Post by: Hypatia on October 24, 2008, 04:58:16 PM
Currently, here in Virginia, Obama is ahead in the polls, but I don't feel we can afford to relax, so I'm going and volunteering at the local Obama campaign office. Both Virginia and Pennsylvania are getting an influx of volunteers from our (safely Democratic) neighbor Maryland. The level of enthusiasm and outpouring of activism in the Obama campaign is the most phenomenal thing I've seen in my whole life. There has never been a campaign like this before. The nation is onto something, it feels like a spiritual reawakening.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Shana A on October 24, 2008, 09:02:44 PM
Post by: Shana A on October 24, 2008, 09:02:44 PM
Not only am I voting for Obama, I'm also volunteering for his campaign locally. I'd rather get dental work done than make phone calls to complete strangers, but I'm making the calls. Am going out to canvass door to door this weekend. It feels really important. It's typically very close in NH.
Z
Z
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: annajasmine on October 24, 2008, 09:10:52 PM
Post by: annajasmine on October 24, 2008, 09:10:52 PM
I already voted The 'O' got mine along with 2 other Democrats and a Independent. Place was pack with bunch of older religious people.
Anna
Anna
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: joannatsf on October 25, 2008, 01:20:17 AM
Post by: joannatsf on October 25, 2008, 01:20:17 AM
The presidential race was done before it started n California. The real race was between Barack and Hillary, which Hillary won. Congress? Nancy Pelosi is my Rep. I don't even know who the Republican Sacrificial lamb is. But we gots ballot propositions! Over 30 of them. I'd like to have an initiative to do away with initiatives. Make our state leges grow some balls and resolve problems for us like we pay them to do. Prop 8 on gay marriage is the biggy. Personaly I think gay people should have the right to be just as miserable as straight people. >:-)
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: cindianna_jones on October 25, 2008, 06:39:48 AM
Post by: cindianna_jones on October 25, 2008, 06:39:48 AM
Quote from: tekla on October 22, 2008, 10:02:56 AM
Had the system been allowed to work in 2000, the Florida vote would not have passed the certification process in time, been discounted, and the election would have gone to the House. Though I'm sure that even in that process Bush would have won, it would have been a very different deal had he been put into power via Congress instead of the Supreme Court.
If you get a chance, see the movie "Recount". I DID NOT KNOW. Did you know that they never did recount the votes (actual ballots) even though the first tally was only a couple thousand different votes? They did retally the machine memory cards which brought it to within 300.
And then, there were 175,000 cards from mostly Democratic counties which were NEVER counted because they were rejected the first time through the machines. They didn't even feed these through again.... much less look at them.
Cindi
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 25, 2008, 01:35:16 PM
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 25, 2008, 01:35:16 PM
Quote from: flutter on October 23, 2008, 05:11:19 PMUh oh. I did the Nader thing in 2000 because I knew my state would carry Gore anyway. I really agreed with Nader, but if Gore had actually had a message that was interesting, I would have considered him more seriously. It's funny. If Gore had been the man he is now back in 2000, I think he would have gotten many more votes.
I've protest voted in 2 out of 3 elections. Perot, Gore, Nader. I was pissed at "Don't ask, Don't tell" so I refused to vote for Clinton (I was only 20), Gore/Bush I actually liked Gore. Bush/Kerry...... I thought Kerry was a marginal improvement, but I knew the state was going to him, and I was pissed that the media railroaded Dean out of the campaign (I *did* door to door signature gathering for Dean).
Sometimes people get all mad when you tell them you voted for Nader. I keep telling them you're supposed to do what you feel is best.
I live between cape cod and boston.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: flutter on October 25, 2008, 02:01:45 PM
Post by: flutter on October 25, 2008, 02:01:45 PM
Quote from: Rebis on October 25, 2008, 01:35:16 PMQuote from: flutter on October 23, 2008, 05:11:19 PMUh oh. I did the Nader thing in 2000 because I knew my state would carry Gore anyway. I really agreed with Nader, but if Gore had actually had a message that was interesting, I would have considered him more seriously. It's funny. If Gore had been the man he is now back in 2000, I think he would have gotten many more votes.
I've protest voted in 2 out of 3 elections. Perot, Gore, Nader. I was pissed at "Don't ask, Don't tell" so I refused to vote for Clinton (I was only 20), Gore/Bush I actually liked Gore. Bush/Kerry...... I thought Kerry was a marginal improvement, but I knew the state was going to him, and I was pissed that the media railroaded Dean out of the campaign (I *did* door to door signature gathering for Dean).
Sometimes people get all mad when you tell them you voted for Nader. I keep telling them you're supposed to do what you feel is best.
I live between cape cod and boston.
A Nader vote only mattered in Florida
if you protest vote in a battleground state, you are actually throwing your vote away... it's only in the solid states where protest votes are kosher. ;)
I saw the man Gore is today in that man that was campaigning in 2000. He's probably the greenest main party candidate we've seen since Carter.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 25, 2008, 02:08:18 PM
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 25, 2008, 02:08:18 PM
Carter made an attempt to get us moving toward energy independence, then that winged baboon, Reagan, dismantled the project.
I can't believe how shortsighted and greedy some people are.
I can't believe how shortsighted and greedy some people are.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: Shana A on October 25, 2008, 05:29:42 PM
Post by: Shana A on October 25, 2008, 05:29:42 PM
Quote from: Rebis on October 25, 2008, 01:35:16 PMQuote from: flutter on October 23, 2008, 05:11:19 PMUh oh. I did the Nader thing in 2000 because I knew my state would carry Gore anyway. I really agreed with Nader, but if Gore had actually had a message that was interesting, I would have considered him more seriously. It's funny. If Gore had been the man he is now back in 2000, I think he would have gotten many more votes.
I've protest voted in 2 out of 3 elections. Perot, Gore, Nader. I was pissed at "Don't ask, Don't tell" so I refused to vote for Clinton (I was only 20), Gore/Bush I actually liked Gore. Bush/Kerry...... I thought Kerry was a marginal improvement, but I knew the state was going to him, and I was pissed that the media railroaded Dean out of the campaign (I *did* door to door signature gathering for Dean).
Sometimes people get all mad when you tell them you voted for Nader. I keep telling them you're supposed to do what you feel is best.
I live between cape cod and boston.
I also voted for Nader in 2000. If Al Gore had been saying then what he did later I would've voted for him, but in '00 the DNC and democratic party seemed barely discernible from the repubs. I would still very much like to see a break from the two party stronghold, but this time I'm voting Obama.
Z
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 25, 2008, 06:16:18 PM
Post by: RebeccaFog on October 25, 2008, 06:16:18 PM
I think there is a different motivation for people in this election.
Plus, many people are used to the idea of Gay marriage thanks to Ellen and the other high profile people who showed it isn't world ending.
This time people understand that the future is in the balance. Over on Huffpo, you see more conservatives endorsing Obama every day. Obama carried out my plan of a politician actually breaking from the traditional lame campaign mode and going right to the people instead of playing to pundits and the base.
Plus, many people are used to the idea of Gay marriage thanks to Ellen and the other high profile people who showed it isn't world ending.
This time people understand that the future is in the balance. Over on Huffpo, you see more conservatives endorsing Obama every day. Obama carried out my plan of a politician actually breaking from the traditional lame campaign mode and going right to the people instead of playing to pundits and the base.
Title: Re: The upcoming election in the USA
Post by: J.T. on October 25, 2008, 06:36:58 PM
Post by: J.T. on October 25, 2008, 06:36:58 PM
QuoteMy transgendered issues have nothing to do with how I vote.
Me either... i am voting for what is best for the country. It would be selfish of me to vote otherwise.