Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi. I am so happy that I found this site! My husband of almost 21 years came out to me in July that he is TG. I knew that he liked crossdressing at home occasionally but he always assured me that it was "normal" and I guess I just didn't want to go there and just accepted it as long as he didn't do it around me. In July he told me that he had been doing it regularly and had gone out many times on his frequent business trips. He had purchased a wig, makeup, full wardrobe, and had had several professional makeovers. He also had a separate email address and Myspace account, I later found out. I had no idea about any of the purchases, since he pays the bills and I am too busy with work and grad school to check the bills and he knew it. I felt very taken advantage of and betrayed but I didn't kick him out because we have kids. We made the agreement that he could continue to dress on his business trips but that he needed to stop buying female clothes in my town, since my kids go to school here and I work as an elementary school teacher here. Also, no HRT.
He agreed to all conditions although he asked me to reconsider the meds. Eventually I did research on spiro and said it would be all right with me if he went on an extremely low dose if it made him feel better, but absolutely no estrogen ever, and I would not change my mind about that, since his MD admitted to me that 80% of TG that go on estrogen cannot stop. He seemed grateful that I spent the time to meet with his MD and therapist and that I agreed to the spiro. That was in late August. A couple of weeks ago I opened a letter from the lab where he gets bloodwork done and saw that his estrogen level was almost 1000. I confronted him and he said it must be a mistake but I persisted and eventually he admitted that he was buying estrogen internationally without a prescription since January. I felt horribly betrayed. Why did he ask my opinion on meds if he had already made a decision to start without me? He said that he didn't tell me in July because he knew that I would have thrown him out immediately and he wanted time to change my mind. By lying to me??? I felt he had been horribly manipulative to someone he supposedly loves. I am a very honest person and I despise liars. I had gone to the trouble to meet with his doctors and then with the pharmacist to determine the safety of the spiro interacting with his other "legal" medications, all the while he was lying to me. Not only was I concerned about the illegal and unregulated meds he was taking (I felt it was extremely irresponsible and selfish of him - we have minor children who are dependent on him) but I was horribly hurt by the blatant disregard of my feelings. I have asked him to move out at this time. I am concerned about my kids' reaction (we are telling them this weekend) but I no longer believe a thing he says. I'm not really asking any questions, just looking for support and advice for me and my kids. Thanks so much!
Susan

Well, I agree it was wrong for him not to tell you about the meds, but I think it's important that you let him express himself. If that will let him feel better, than you should let him do it. Because trust me, it is the worst thing in the world to be trapped in a body that you feel doesn't belong to you, and to not be able to take steps in the direction of fixing it.

And telling children might be difficult... how old are they? Most young kids are pretty excepting, but it can have a negative affect on older children and teens. It is a lot of stress to take on, as you probably know. But good luck to you, I hope it gets sorted out.

We are not telling the kids at this point, just that dad is moving out because he and I aren't getting along (which they have seen). My kids are teenagers, my daughter is 14 and my son is 16. Bad ages for this info, I know. I think my daughter already "knows" on some level. As for my son, I am pretty sure that if he were told this now he would cease speaking to his father immediately and for a long time, if not forever. My husband feels that this would happen as well.

I am not stopping him at this point from doing anything that he wants. That's why I asked him to move out. This obviously means so much to him that he would sacrifice his family for it so he needs to be able to explore his options. Unfortunately, that is not possible while living in our house. There have already been too many questions from my kids about where he goes and what he does ...
Susan

I am sorry to hear that he lied to you and I know that it is hurtful.  But being MtF, I can understand his need.  I am not condoning his actions, but I understand the need.  And I would hope that you two can come to some kind of agreement, because family support is important.

I don't know his mind set, but if the is that driven, you need to get him to talk.  If not to you then to a therapist.

I know you are hurt and that too is understandable.  Hopefully the other SOs will be able to help you work out your feelings and the problem.

I am hoping the best for him, you and your family.

I think you are handling this as well as can be expected, Susan.

To lie to you about his meds, take them even though he knew it would bother you, and then do it illegally without medical safety.. the first two are, in my opinion, inexcusable in a committed and serious relationship- lying is never the right way to go when it comes to something this serious and drastic- and the last one is simply irresponsible, as you said.  Estrogen can be very dangerous if it's not regulated. :-\

That said, I do wish it would have been possible for him to transition and everything while still holding on to you and your children.  Kids can adapt to and accept more than we think; if you tell them the truth without passing judgement or acting like their dad is doing something inherently wrong, then they should be fine with it, at least in time.  [I'm not saying you would pass judgement or anything, I just wanted to mention it.]  Kids are resilient.  The real problem I see is that he lied.

Anyway, as for advice.. I don't really know if there's anything I can say, as I haven't had this experience. :-\ But just.. try to make sure your kids understand that it's not their fault, that there's nothing wrong with it, that their dad still loves them and still wants to be in their lives [I assume], that it won't make them uncool at school, and that it doesn't mean they have to be transgendered, too.  If they feel mad or confused or upset, that's okay, let them feel it.  Maybe see if he will let them ask any questions they have, if they want to know more?   I wouldn't advise telling them the whole story about him lying at first and stuff, they don't need to know that.. it would just make things harder to take.

Finally.. is there any possibility of reconciliation?  I mean.. can you two go to couples therapy and try to work it out?  I know you hate liars.. but with something as inherent and powerful as the feeling of being transgendered, he may have felt as though he had no choice.  It could be worth it to see if what you have is worth salvaging.

Quote from: Emme on November 13, 2008, 05:45:02 AM
So my apologies to any I offended.

Don't apologise for being right.

The thing is, while it's clear that her husband is in a lot of pain over this, and e may feel e has to take steps towards eir transition, it is also very clear that e should be honest about it, both to emself and to her. Otherwise it just cannot work, as has become clear by now. It may still be possible for them to get back together, but only if they both can get over the deception and regain trust in both themselves and each other.

I must say, though, that coming out to my wife was by far the scariest thing I've ever done -- but it was also one of the things where there really was no other option.

I hope it works out, in one way or another.

  Nfr

Hi Charlie1 ... I am so sorry to here about your SO's lieing and sneaking around.  It's  never good to lie and the trust issue is probably the biggest and hardest thing for you to rebuild.  The other commentor's before me have said it very well.

For me, I am in a very real and similiar situation to that of your husband/significant other.  I am also a transgender male-to-female who has been lieing and sneaking around on my wife.  The reason I believe we do this is because at first we don't know what it's all about, nor is it very accepting in society although it is getting better, and there are not very many people we can talk too about it early on.  So we hide it away and begin searching for answers.  That's no excuse for not telling your significant other, but if the peson doing it can't necessarily accept it themselves, how are they suppose to expect or ask others to accept it.  The very limited discussions I've had with my wife involve her believing I do it because I am Gay or it's a fetish of some sort even though I've tried telling her it's not.  She say's it's all my problem and she won't do therapy with me to try and understand or learn about it.  So for me, I am stuck between my transgender being and stay in a somewhat depressed male form and remaining my marriage.  I also, like you, have two children, although mine are somewhat younger than yours.  I have two daughters ages 7 and 5.  So talking to them about it really wouldn't be an issue and probably more than they'd be able to understand at their ages anyways.

It was over fours years ago that my wife first found out about me being a cross-dresser/transgender.  I have gone to several different therapist, both gender and non-gender.  I concluded on a gender one several years ago and she has been good to me.  I know that I am transgender and would probably be farther along with my transition if I were not married or had an accepting and approving spouse.  I have stayed to keep my family together.  I still dress and go out when I can, although it';s not very often.  I have the full wardrobe of clothing, shoes, makeup, wigs, jewerly, etc.  Most of it I have gotten through thrift stores or second hand shops at significantly reduced prices.  My wife doesn't know.  So, I am lieing to her as well.  I do it because it's me and I am fearful of losing her and my kids.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I believe we do it early on because we are fearful of coming out and the understanding of others.  It's hard enough for us to accept and we think it's the same or worse for others.  I pray for you and your family.  I know from the reverse angle what you are going through because I've tried to be understanding to my wife and family.  I see her pain and anguish in it and it hurts me, but in the same respect I wish for her to see the pain that I am in.  As I hope you see the pain and stress it's caused your significant other in dealing with his transgender side.  The trust will be a hard thing to rebuild, if not impossible.  I wish you luck.

Jennifer

Quote from: Charlie1 on November 12, 2008, 11:49:12 PM
We are not telling the kids at this point, just that dad is moving out because he and I aren't getting along (which they have seen). My kids are teenagers, my daughter is 14 and my son is 16. Bad ages for this info, I know. I think my daughter already "knows" on some level. As for my son, I am pretty sure that if he were told this now he would cease speaking to his father immediately and for a long time, if not forever. My husband feels that this would happen as well.

I am not stopping him at this point from doing anything that he wants. That's why I asked him to move out. This obviously means so much to him that he would sacrifice his family for it so he needs to be able to explore his options. Unfortunately, that is not possible while living in our house. There have already been too many questions from my kids about where he goes and what he does ...
Susan

Don't think about this "sacrifice," As if it is some sort of choice. It isn't, trust me. A large percentage of the TG population attempt suicide for a reason...
Your transitioning partner needs this. The choice they made to self medicate may have been irresponsible, but it should show to you how desperate they are to be what they need to be. Imagine if your brain suddenly had mostly testosterone running around in it? You'd be driven nuts by it, and try to fix that.

I think that moving out may be the best choice, but that you must also forgive them because this is just as hard for them as it is for you.

Emme - I never meant to direct anything at anyone.  I was just trying to help Charlie1 out.  I happen to completely agree with you.  Marriage should be built upon a solid foundation of communication, understanding & trust (not necessarily in that order).  Lying to keep a marriage together isn't right and you are correct in that what does it teach.  For me, after the holidays this year I am going to have that full disclosure discussion with my spouse and let the chips fall as they may.  I can not personally continue to hide myself away and she has a right to make the decisions that best fits her life, whatever that may be.  It's not fair to either person involved, but it's for the best.  Same in Charlie1 situation.  She needs to decide for herself what is best for her and move forward accordingly.  No two situations are identical, but there is alot of similiarities amongst all of us.  The paths have been taken before and the information is out there to be learned from.   Good luck.

Emme,

You did not come across as unfeeling.  You are a caring person and Charlie1 needs an ally.  I agree with you 100%.  I hope I did not come across as being 'on his side'.  I just understand the need.  My wife and I separated after Ii came clean on my GID.  It was a running battle for us.  We don't have kids together.  So that was never in the equation.

You right to set your foot down.  It would be the same as if he cheated, which I guess he kinda of did all though he was the other woman.

A marriage that can survive this, can survive anything.

I still wish you and your family the best and I hope it can be resolved.

I have to agree with Emme.  He lied repeatedly.  Surely knowing her as he does, he had to know the damage his lies would cause in their relationship.  I feel for you and your children this is not an easy road for any of you to have to travel down. 

When he decided to do this on his own for himself and what he needs to feel good about his life.  He had to know it was going to affect everyone in his family.  No one with a wife and kids transitions alone.  Each person in that situation goes through their own emotional rollercoaster once it all comes out in the open.  It is not easy for the TG person to live their life day after day tormented by being born in the wrong body.  Nor is it easy for the wife who married a man to now be told I want to be YOUR wife and not your husband.  That entire future is now changing.

Yes, children can be resilient and accepting.  As a teenager it will be pretty hard to let go of Daddy and have a new mom.  Then have to deal with that with all their friends.    Being a teen is hard enough and now they have something huge to deal with.  I know it can be done and I wish you all the best. 

Once you have been out and out lied to it is very hard to repair that betrayal.  I hope you can work it out and that he realizes what is at stake by not being honest.   Ok, so at this point he knows it cost him his home with his family.  Was it worth it to him?  Can you find a way to forgive him and move on from here?  Only you and he can do the tough work that lies ahead.  Is the love you have for him worth saving and fighting for?  Or did his betrayal destroy too much?  He was wrong to do that to your faith and trust in him.

Roxi

QuoteDon't think about this "sacrifice,"

I agree.

Many TS have such a desire for change that it's not even a choice to them.  Male or female aren't really "options" in the sense that the word has been used here.  Sure, a choice is still made.  But to the TS it's like a choice of life or death.  Anyone who didn't choose transition would be a fool, because they feel like they die a bit each day that they don't implement change.

Quote from: Charlie1 on November 12, 2008, 10:59:08 PMWhy did he ask my opinion on meds if he had already made a decision to start without me?

I'm going to make this perfectly clear so there is no confusion.  Your husband is a ticking time bomb.  Really, he is.  From what you've posted so far, it is clear that he is a true TS, and that no amount of reasoning or concessions will convince him not to seek transition.  He lied to you because he knew that talking wouldn't help, because his mind is already made.  It may have already been made even before you married him.

His choice is certain, of that much you can be sure.  There is only one choice to be made here, and that is yours.  Can you live with a transsexual or can you not?  If the answer is no, then just get a divorce as soon as possible.  If the answer is yes, then both of you have a lot of adjustments to make.

The drive of transsexualism should not be understated.  It gets worse as time goes on.  What seems like selfish and erratic behavior to you is simply the result of someone who has probably lived an entire life of denial.  If you've already lived most of your life in denial, then you have to be a little selfish.  Or rather, a lot selfish.  Because when you've lived forty years giving yourself up for what other people think of you, you don't have much time left for yourself.

I agree with Emme. As much as I can relate to the pain Susan's husband is feeling, si betrayed a trust. I've seen too many people here in South Africa charge ahead into transition without taking others into consideration and losing everything as a result. Transition needs to be an honest, open process, and as much as we need to move forward, we need to consider the speed at which others are able to move. If we leave them too far behind we lose them.

Susan's husband should've been honest from the beginning about self-medding, something along the lines of "honey, I've started taking medication to transition. This is something I have to do, it's that or die, but I don't want to lose you either, so I'm willing to do what I can, but I can only slow down so much."

I know it still sounds ultimatum-ish, but from my own experience I know that you get to a point where it really is a case of transition or die. Hopefully though, you give yourself enough time to come out of the closet early so you can give others the time and space they need to accept and adjust.

Of course, it's all easy to say that, but fear, frustration and hurt can make us do terribly silly things. Susan, as much as your husband has hurt and betrayed you, I hope you can forgive hir. Si is going through a tremendously difficult situation now, and it's so easy to act foolishly. Believe me, I know.

Hugs, and I hope it works out.

~Simone.

Thanks to all those who replied to my original email. When he told me that he was TG he asked me what I would be able to live with and I said dressing out of town on trips and that's all. He agreed to that but said someday he'd like to take the meds. I said not with me and he said he understood. At least he TOLD me that he understood. Apparently all the while it was bull, since he was already on the (illegal) meds for 8 months. He lied to me solely because he knew I would ask him to leave if he told me the truth. He knew what he was doing and honestly it is the lying more than anything which has put an end to our marriage. It isn't the first time that he has lied to me but for my own sanity it has to be the last. Those of you who responded that TGs have to be selfish at this point must understand that if you are selfish then you have to understand that there are consequences for that selfishness. Elle, you are right --- I did not cause the TG in my husband. I have been a good wife for 20 years. I have supported my husband emotionally as he lost job after job (5 jobs in 10 years). I have lived as a single parent as my husband has taken jobs with 60% travel or actually jobs where he lived out of state. Every anniversary he would give me a card saying "Good things happen to those who wait for it. This will be our year." Meanwhile, he was taking these jobs purposefully to "try out" his new life. My 21st anniversary is Friday. There will be no card this year. I feel so taken advantage of and it really has very little to do with the TG issue, but with the deceit of all of this. I guess I am a little bitter. I am now going to be a medically challenged (I have lupus)single fulltime parent (who works 50 hours a week at a new job I took on my husband's urging) to 2 learning disabled children while he is trying out his new life as a "single woman". Deep down, I think that's what he wanted anyway. So he can be who he "really" is, without his annoying family to tie him down. What kind of woman, what kind of person is that? I know this is a rant and sorry if I have offended anyone. I'm just so frustrated by all of this and the fact that I have been duped so badly for so long by someone I thought cared about me.
Susan

It's okay, Susan.  It's a horrible situation. :(  Do what you need to do to get through this, nothing you said was offensive at all.  You have every right to be upset.

Quote from: Charlie1 on November 19, 2008, 06:48:50 PM
Those of you who responded that TGs have to be selfish at this point must understand that if you are selfish then you have to understand that there are consequences for that selfishness.

Being "selfish" through a transition doesn't mean lying and cheating and being deceitful. It just means having to be honest that we ARE going to transition, no matter what. When, how, and at what rates are negotiable to a point... but not IF.

It's possible to be "selfish" in the sense of making it clear we MUST do this, yet be considerate enough to *include* a spouse on the process itself, always, ALWAYS being as open and honest as possible about *everything* going on.

~Kate~