Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Transsexual Quebec inmate serving time in men's prison after complaints from women

Wed Dec 24, 2:22 PM
By The Canadian Press

MONTREAL - A transsexual Quebec inmate who hasn't physically completed the transformation to a woman is serving her jail time in a prison for men.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081224/national/que_transsexual_inmate_1 (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081224/national/que_transsexual_inmate_1)

This shows how strong the genital rule is. And I think that in case post-ops are in some state put to male prisons it is a case for civil right litigation.

this is awful, i can only imagine the mental anguish she is going through, not to mention the guarenteed physical abuse that the good inmates and corrections officers will deny ever giving her. it may be Canada, but that doesn't change the people in prison or how they treat transwomen. >:(


i apologize as i didn't get to read the entire article because my computer froze. i don't condone the violence against children as most of you know i have three.

my father was a corrections officer so whether this person is trans or not, it is most likely she will not live to see next year. my dad has told me many stories of inmates killing child molestors in prison.  I DO NOT CONDONE THE VIOLENCE OF CHILDREN!!!  >:(

Canadian federal prison system demands that transwoman has undergone SRS to be located as woman( As U.S. federal system even there are no written rules).

This woman has not had SRS. She can even die because they sent her to a rough male prison.

It is questionable has the court decision Kavanagh vs. Canada (2001, 2003)
helped notable pre-op transwomen in Canadian system. Other way than that Ms. Kavanagh won the surgery.

The charge ain't helping the case gain sympathy.  Trans or not, in a male or female prison or not, that kind of charge is going to make prison life about as hard as it gets.

Objectivily she is getting too harsh punishment. I agree that she should go to prison but in female prison to with some special arangement (like isolation from other inmates).

If you are in isolation, what's it matter what kind of jail it is?  Second, given the charges she's not going to be in any better shape in a womens jail, matter of fact, she might be worse off.  Just imagine what her life would be like surrounded 24/7 by women who feel exactly about it like Emme, except a lot bigger, meaner, and extremely violent in many cases. 

The problem in this case is her legal status. In case somebody is legally woman she deserves same punishment as any other woman from her crime. Because of her anatomy and crime she must put in isolation/solitary. Isolation in female prison is a different sentence than isolation in male prison. Less cruel.

No punishment is too good for someone that assaults a child. I don't give a flyin' rip who or what they are. An adult hurting a child is unforgivable. 

However she is legally woman in Quebec and deserves same punishment not harsher than other legally woman. Solitary confiment even in female prison would be a real punishment for her. She should also serve more than 40 months at least 120 months.

I don't care if she is legally a woman or not. She f-ing sexually assaulted a child!!! ....sexually what part of that does not stir up anger in you? Who knows how she did but if she used he "male" member to do it then I think it only right she serves her time in a prison with men.

Perhaps you would feel differently if you were the child. Do you have any freekin' idea what that does to a child??!?!!? NO! APPARENTLY NOT!!!

However sending her to male prison is torture.  I do not support torture for anyone.

After SRS she will be moved to female prison. ( She may get her SRS while in prison, it is Canada, not the USA)

So that sends the message. "commit a violent crime against a child and get free medical treatment" all on the tax payers dollar.

Sorry, but I disagree. Strongly.

My quit distant fried Synthia Kavanagh got her surgery and was moved to female prison. She killed a person with crushing her skull dozens of times. And the person was another transwoman. Still I think that she got what she needed as necessary medical treatment.

I think in goingdown's case it has to do with refusing mandatory military service, and in that I support GD.  No one should be forced to serve in the military.  Ever.  Anywhere.

We could end a lot of war that way.

Finland
Main article: Conscription in Finland
Finland has mandatory military service for men of a minimum duration of six months (180 days), depending on the assigned position: those trained as officers or NCOs serve for twelve months (362 days), specialist troops serve for nine (270 days) or twelve months, while rank and file serve for the minimum period. Unarmed service is also possible, and lasts eleven months (330 days). The obligation to enter into service begins at the age of 19, and may be postponed to the age of 29, when it becomes either mandatory, or the conscript is exempted.

Since 1995, women have been able to volunteer for military service. During the first 45 days, women have an option to quit at will. Having served for 45 days, they fall under the same obligation to serve as men except for medical reasons. A pregnancy during service would interrupt the service but not automatically cause a medical discharge.

Non-military service of twelve months is available for men whose conscience prevents them from serving in the military. Men who refuse to serve at all are sent to prison for six months or half the time of their remaining non-military service at the time of refusal. In theory, male citizens from the demilitarized Åland region are to serve in customs offices or lighthouses, but since this service has not been arranged, they are always exempted in practice. Jehovah's Witnesses' service is postponed every two years until they, at the age of twenty-eight, are exempted from service. Military service has been mandatory for men throughout the history of independent Finland since 1917. Soldiers and civilian servicemen receive a daily salary of 3.80 € (days 1 – 180), 6.50 € (days 181 – 270) and 9.00 € (onward from day 271).

Approximately 20% are trained as NCOs (corporals, sergeants), and 10% are trained as officers-in-reserve (second lieutenant). In wartime, it is expected that the officers-in-reserve fulfil most Company Commander positions. At the beginning of the service, all men go through same basic training of eight weeks. After this eight week period it is decided who will be trained as NCOs or officers.

Having completed the initial part of the service as a conscript, the soldier is placed in the reserve. Reservists may be called for mandatory refresher exercises. Rank and file serve a maximum of 40 days, specialists 75 days and officers and NCOs 100 days. Per refresher course day, the reservists receive a taxable salary of about fifty euro. The salary depends slightly on the military rank: officers receive €56, NCOs €53 and rank-and file 51€ per diem. The service is mandatory; it is not possible to refuse an order to attend the refresher exercise, only postpone. As of late though, the option to opt for non-military service has been made available as the Finnish Defence Forces has made ongoing budget cuts, reflected in the number of reservist exercises annually.

There are no general exemptions for the conscription. Study, work or other civilian activity is not grounds for exemption nor automatic postponing. The law requires employers, landlords etc. to continue any pre-existing contracts after the service. For medical reasons, exemption or postponing can be given only by a military doctor. If the disability is expected to be cured, there is no exemption, and the service is postponed. The basic doctrine is that the great majority of each age cohort serve, and the size of the active army can be adjusted by changing the maximum age of reservists to be called up, instead of using selective service.

The option to military service is civilian service, where a conscript finds a job at some public institution, where he serves 12 months, the same as the longest rank-and-file service (drivers). Before 2008, the law required 13 months, which was criticized for being punitive.

Over 80% of Finnish males serve in the military. Often there is great pressure from family members to do armed instead of civilian service. Finnish World War Two veterans are highly respected in Finland, and not undertaking military service may be considered an offence towards veterans in the family. There has also been a prevailing social assumption that masculinity can only be proved by army service, and, consequently, not doing so can lead to the stigmatisation of non-conscripts as not "real men". This has recently started waning as being considered an old-fashioned perspective, but it still holds in some more traditional occupations such as teaching.[citation needed] Additionally, the youth are often frightened that employers do not hire men who have performed civilian service.

The national security policy of Finland is based on a credible independent defence of all Finnish territory. The maximum number of military personnel abroad is limited to 2,000 (out of the 900,000 available reserve). Contributions to the UN troops comprise only professional soldiers and trained, paid reservists who have specifically applied to such operations. Therefore, there is no "expeditionary wars" argument against conscription.

Draft dodging is nearly non-existent, as failure to show up to conscription immediately leads to an arrest warrant and is prosecuted as absence without leave, or desertion after five days of absence. Showing the military pass is required to obtain a passport.

Political opposition to conscription is rather marginalized and heavily associated with Communist or anarchist groups. Particularly, the "Defenders of Peace" (Rauhanpuolustajat), who opposed military readiness, were supported by the Soviets during the Cold War era. Therefore, opposition to conscription is still heavily associated with anti-patriotism and Communism.

QuoteThe option to military service is civilian service, where a conscript finds a job at some public institution, where he serves 12 months,

QuoteFor medical reasons, exemption or postponing can be given only by a military doctor.

The cost of government health care has to come from some service to the government.

QuoteCis-woman get free healtcare and they do not have to do anything.

You think it is morally correct to receive handouts from other people's work and time as you are capable but do not contribute at all? Then you rather sit in prison than contribute some kind of work to society?

Perhaps every able bodied person should perform some kind of service.

Perhaps every able bodied person should perform some kind of service.

Isn't that kinda opposed to the notion of a free society that there ought be mandatory work - that you owe some duty to the state? 

Some call it taxes, voteing, jury duty, etc.

Huge difference between taxes and forced military conscription.  Huge.

Quotefinds a job at some public institution,

It against many beliefs to do military service and that is fine. But it costs to provide government services and everyone's time has the same value to them. So service is more fair than money. There are many public jobs including poets everyone could be fitted into some useful position.

Personally, GD, I think your using a fabricated GID as a way of getting out of doing somthing that your law requires. If it truly is your mission to be equal then you should be fighting for the equal rights of all people in your country regardless of their gender. If one gender is not required but the other is, then that is not equal. That, I think that should be your true mission, not bending the rules because of cowardice. 

Gender's are not equal here mainly because of conscription. In my equality thinking does not include that the only real responsibilities given by law are only for the other sex. And because I am woman inside and military has a very little women here in vluntary service the hole issue is very emotional for me.
In case I would live in the USA I would rather go prison than register for draft.

Cami?  Do you remember what happened the last time we had a draft? 

We no longer have a draft. its irrelevant. If enough people don't like the way a government runs they take action to change it. 

Draft would not leave from here It has support from people. And you should understand that forced military service is extremely unjust against those who are different than normal masculine male. They get marked rest of their life because they choose alternative service. In Finland tolenrance towards alternative service is strongly assosiated to tolerance for gendervarianve GV.

Well the draft was abandoned here because it was about to rip the nation apart, with riots on many campuses and disruptions at induction centers, and widespread civil disturbances like pouring blood on draft files.  During the Civil War, draft riots in New York ran for days and the military had to shell the Five Corners area to stop it.  Outside of WWII, a unique situation, its always been very unpopular.

There is widespread support against Transgender rights, and gay rights in the United States, so you accept that?  After all, it enjoys widespread support.  Gay marriage couldn't even win, in California in a very liberal election, what are its chances in say Alabama?  But hey, widespread support, what more do you need to make it right?

QuoteI hope that I will get SRS in 2009 then I will not be charged. In that situation the case will be dismissed.

It sounds that the number one reason to have sexual reassignment surgery is to avoid service to your country. There are many here that would gladly give a year service to their country to just become women and have their body match their mind. Just being a gay femme male does not mean you need SRS.

QuoteIt usually leads that family abonded these men and they are second class citizen rest of their life. Many women do not marry them.

Duh! And if you have SRS that will not also happen?

QuoteIt is about draft avoidance and I have a year to show that I did not lie about GID to get exeption.

Lets get this straight. You did not need doctors letters to the military doctor to get an exemption from the draft, all you had to do is file a form? Then you used the free government health care system to finagle two shrinks to give you letters to get SRS surgery which the government provides fro free? All that to avoid working for civil service for a year? The moon is made of green cheese.

Perhaps you need to take your lawyer's advice and find an asylum.

QuoteI can show it by giving a surgical declaration statement from other than Thai surgeon to court at least 12/31/09.

What is wrong with Thai surgeons?

Surgery, jail, military service or some make work deal, at least you have choices.

You are wrong. I have only two options now: surgery or jail.

QuoteI had a statement that I was mentally too unstable to serve

That is not a lie. So many governments including yours update each year and want to know if you still have that condition. As soon as you are well the exemption goes away. You can just go to your shrink and get another letter saying that you are still mentally too unstable to serve. I sure would not want to see a gun in your hands.

I don't want a gun in anyone hands except my own, and I'm iffy on that sometimes.

Quote from: goingdown on December 26, 2008, 07:41:57 PM
I had a statement that I was mentally too unstable to serve. However husband of my mother's friend made an inquiry about me lately. We made non-official deal with prosecutor that the case could be dismissed in case I provide surgical declaration letter before 12/31/2009. I can even got passport that I can travel to surgery.

QuoteSitation: What is wrong with Thai surgeons?

I do not know those were the terms.

Your grandmother is going to die if you have surgery and your mother's friend makes a deal but you can not use Thai surgeons.

I think you are getting the wool pulled over your eyes by your family. The best thing is to move away from them and find out the truth with you own abilities not your family's.

QuoteThe statement was permanent because of I was classified long termly unstable.

Then you do not have to make any deal with the courts. You have done nothing wrong and the court has no reason to prosecute you.

When did this turn into a question about whether or not goingdown is trans?  I see no reason to doubt her. :-\

QuoteThe mother's friend did not make the deal it was a prosecutor who wanted to give a chanche.

What could the prosecutor do you are within the law he can not send you to jail. No deal is necessary unless he can prover that you are not "mentally too unstable to serve".

And you want to be a lawyer?

And you want to be a lawyer?

No but with the qualification mentally too unstable to serve you could run almost any church in the US, or be pope, or you could have been Bush or Cheney.

Quote from: TamTam on December 26, 2008, 08:05:19 PM
When did this turn into a question about whether or not goingdown is trans?  I see no reason to doubt her. :-\

It has nothing to do whether she is transsexual or not. It has to do with having SRS to get out of the draft. When the reason she was exempt from the draft is for being "mentally too unstable to serve" not transsexual.

As News moderator, I'd like to remind everyone, no personal attacks, as per site rules. Also, this discussion of goingdown's military service or trans status has little to do with the OP. Please keep the discussion in this section on topic. Thanks.

Z

Criminal law is designed to punish people for certain crimes, child abuse being one of them. It doesnt matter if the person is transsexual or not, they go to prison to be punished, in solitary confinement if required to protect themselves from others or others from them.

Lets not get into this is ""discrimiation against transsexuals"', if the person concerned is still legally male they should go to a male prision and be punished for the crime that has been committed. All this person does for many of the general public is re-enforce the belief that we are a bunch of sexual deviants.

I would also withhold all medical treatment for this person until they came out of prison as part  of the punishment. The World has become to liberal and politically correct and pamper to much for the human rights of people who break the law and totaly forget the victims of crime and their eternal suffering.

Personally, I would just leave this person to rot in jail.

Buffy

Quote from: The Only Warrior Princess Mickie on December 26, 2008, 08:32:40 AM
this is awful, i can only imagine the mental anguish she is going through, not to mention the guarenteed physical abuse that the good inmates and corrections officers will deny ever giving her. it may be Canada, but that doesn't change the people in prison or how they treat transwomen. >:(


i apologize as i didn't get to read the entire article because my computer froze. i don't condone the violence against children as most of you know i have three.

my father was a corrections officer so whether this person is trans or not, it is most likely she will not live to see next year. my dad has told me many stories of inmates killing child molestors in prison.  I DO NOT CONDONE THE VIOLENCE OF CHILDREN!!!  >:(

In case she they would have done a right thing and sent her a female prison. She would not face death or worse form of abuse.  Pure cruelty is for revengence is never a thing that makes us more humane. I will pray for this women. And in case she dies it could have been avoided. In case we want a capitol punishment we should use it, not be cowards and get someone die for violance that any human should never face.

Yes. She deserves to go prison and for a long time.  Even in female prison she would be the most hated inmate and in solitary also after SRS because of her crime.

Any male who commits sexual offences against a woman or child should have their penis surgically removed so they can never hurt another person then just let the go their way. Lot's of folks outside of prisons don't like molesters and rapists either. I have seen people banned off the res for life for such an offence, It considered even more offensive then murder or manslaughter on the heat of passion is forgivable if returned to the res after parole.

Cindy

No hon, May I suggest that maybe you leave all of this prison stuff asside for now. You are only one woman, you cant fix the problems that go on in all the prisons as one woman. The only thing or force that can change that is inmates and the legal system and the general public.

As for this military thing again I don't know what the laws are there but here if you just tell the military that you are transsexual and undergoing transition they couldn't escort you out of the recruiting office fast enough. They don't want sissies in the military and I would sooner be labeled a sissy and not qualify for service and then tell them to kiss it and go on your merry way.

Cindy

She harmed a child, it was a choice, she knew the risks, i have no sympathy that she is in a male prison, either way she will not make it as mikey said... oh well.

QuoteAccording to my knowledge

You knowledge is mostly from hearsay. You refuse to check the facts and get a lawyer that is not connected with your family. You have no solid  answers for many of your fears. Your excuses do not make sense and do not follow the legal system. The military does not take people with mental problems and does not put them in prison. I suggest a good doctor to iron out your fears.

They aint in the US...

No militery takes those diagnosed mentally ill... and none are put in prison for that fact...

It wasn't that long ago in this nation that GID was held as a mental illness - opps, turns out we still have a lot of people fighting to keep it as a mental illness, arguing only over the cure (and who should pay).  During the Vietnam war, acting gay was a pretty good way to get out of the draft, at least in the beginning.  Matter of fact, if you come out as gay, don't you still get kicked out of the military in the US?  Do tell.  I'm sure they would not take a transperson either.

QuoteFor medical reasons, exemption or postponing can be given only by a military doctor. If the disability is expected to be cured, there is no exemption, and the service is postponed.

QuoteI had a statement that I was mentally too unstable to serve.

QuoteThe statement was permanent because of I was classified long termly unstable

So your permanent exemption is based on being unstable not GID. You been unstable way before you was diagnosed as GID. You got your original exemption before you was declared GID.

It seems the Army has the right to review your case at anytime and declare you cured. So your original exemption was not permanent. I can only figure that you changed  your condition from being mentally unstable to transsexual in one of these reviews. I suggest that you get a letter from your doctor that states both mental problems. That will buy you time till you become 28 and will need another letter.

Quote from: tekla on December 27, 2008, 10:10:45 AM
It wasn't that long ago in this nation that GID was held as a mental illness - opps, turns out we still have a lot of people fighting to keep it as a mental illness, arguing only over the cure (and who should pay).  During the Vietnam war, acting gay was a pretty good way to get out of the draft, at least in the beginning.  Matter of fact, if you come out as gay, don't you still get kicked out of the military in the US?  Do tell.  I'm sure they would not take a transperson either.

Don't you get a dishonorable discharge? Those things you have to explain on work applications?

QuoteDon't you get a dishonorable discharge? Those things you have to explain on work applications?

That is a myth. All you do when asked about military duty is say None. N/A  Not everyone was drafted or had to serve. Medical deferment is, and was very common. No questions asked even in government jobs.

In a time when information on people is so easy to get for a few bucks, lying on a job ap, not a good idea. 

That is why our information age has so exactly caught all the corruption with computers. The facts are the more information available the less it is paid attention to.

One of the theaters I work at now runs credit checks and background checks for all employment apps.  Not a big deal, they always did that for people who worked in the box-office and handled money.  Now they even do it for the janitors.  At every company there is someone who does pay attention, because they lose their job if they mess up.  And a dishonorable, or less-than-honorable discharge is pretty much a fast ticket to jobless city.

QuoteAnd a dishonorable, or less-than-honorable discharge is pretty much a fast ticket to jobless city.

That is a rare situation. Most dishonorable discharges turn into a general discharge after a year. Most gays never make it to military justice they are rejected by classification and do not pass the physical. Thereby never being in the military and are not lying by saying no military experience.

My brother went AWOL during basic training after they told him how to fold toilet paper. He turned himself in after a month was put on KP duty for 3 weeks and given a dishonorable discharge that turned general after a year he now works for the post office. The Government does not care of the circumstances of discharge just how much government experience you have.

He also worked for the NYC police dept. He quit for the better pay at the post office.

QuoteNow they even do it for the janitors.  At every company there is someone who does pay attention, because they lose their job if they mess up.

Yes, like the accountants at AIG.

Quote from article, "Veilleux was sentenced earlier this month to 40 months in prison for sexually assaulting a child."

I feel sorry for the child.  The women in the women's prison might fear Veilleux might sexually assault them since Veilleux still has her male sex organs.

I think its not the fact they have male sex organs... people are reading too much into the 'zomg trans discriminashunz' side...

the person is a convicted sex offender, AND has a penis, in a womens jail.... im sorry, but thats just asking for trouble... if id been one of those women, id have been uncomfortable as hell around them...

in this case the woman sexually assaulted a child and it's little wonder the other women don't want her there.
however, if she were a genetic female pedophile, she'd still be in the women's and the other women would have no say.

I'm sorry, call me cruel but some one that sexually assaults a child does not deserve human rights. For anyone thats been "that child" you know exactly how I feel.

Quote from: eliza beth on December 27, 2008, 06:48:54 PM

Quote from: Nero on December 27, 2008, 06:36:36 PM
in this case the woman sexually assaulted a child and it's little wonder the other women don't want her there.
however, if she were a genetic female pedophile, she'd still be in the women's and the other women would have no say.

I just think there has to be a sensable solution to this problem and since when do inmates have any input into who else is in prison with them? it's not up to them, it's up to the governing body of the prison and I implore them to reconsider their decision here.

I just want to point out that I am not defending pedophiles, only human rights.

oh i was agreeing with you. it's pretty ridiculous that she's considered a legal female everywhere but in prison. of course the other inmates don't like her, but would they like another female pedophile any more? in this case her birth status is being used against her and not her crime.

Quote from: Cami on December 27, 2008, 07:00:14 PM
I'm sorry, call me cruel but some one that sexually assaults a child does not deserve human rights. For anyone thats been "that child" you know exactly how I feel.

yes, but it's not about just this woman. she's a monster, but if she can be carted off to a male prison because of fellow inmate complaints, all transwomen imprisoned in that city are in danger no matter their crime.

I guess thats true. I just can not feel sympathy for for anyone that hurts a child. Its a subject matter that is very close to me and because of it my emotions cloud my logic at times.

In these cases there is no hard and fast rules. Each one usually has a psychological exam and is evaluated in court and by the dept of corrections and put where they think is best. As behavior is evaluated they adjust and change things. Look at Hilton she was put in the prison hospital till things quieted down. As prisoners prove they are trust worthy they are given more privileges if they are not they get some taken away. Prison is to protect the citizens and hopefully correct bad behavior of the guilty. Some correction ideas also try to get restitution for the victims.

It pains me a bit to see that everyone assumes she is truly guilty of molesting someone, given the discriminatory nature of juries and the fact that the molestation supposedly happened in the 1990's.  Something doesn't smell right there.  I can just hear a prosecutor telling the jury that this "perverted transsexual MUST have done this crime, I mean, just LOOK at her/him/it."

When I see the lenient sentences given to those who assault and murder trans women I have to come to the conclusion that getting a fair jury trial for a trans woman is as unlikely as having a trans person's murderer being sent up for life imprisonment.  It may happen, but it sure looks like it doesn't happen all that much.

In light of these circumstances I think that putting this person into a criminal male general population is cruel and unusual punishment.  If she is guilty or not, the incarceration ought to be punishment enough.  The added "enhancement" of beatings and anal rape, while it may make us feel good that "the bastard is getting what he deserves," ought not to be encouraged by a fair and compassionate society.

It also irks me that the female prison's occupants were allowed to use "discomfort" as an excuse to send someone to that sort of torturous punishment.  The whole thing is based on their prejudice and discrimination,  Nothing in the story suggested her behavior in the female prison was less than acceptable.  It was the other prisoner's prejudices that were allowed to rule the situation.

I hope we can get to the point of seeing that, "There but for the grace of the Deity go I" and that news stories ALWAYS need to be taken with a grain of salt before accepting them completely.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

Quote from: Emelye on December 27, 2008, 08:35:21 PM
It pains me a bit to see that everyone assumes she is truly guilty of molesting someone, given the discriminatory nature of juries and the fact that the molestation supposedly happened in the 1990's.  Something doesn't smell right there.  I can just hear a prosecutor telling the jury that this "perverted transsexual MUST have done this crime, I mean, just LOOK at her/him/it."

The fact that the person is serving 40 months after being convicted of raping a child is the telling point here.

Quote from: Emelye on December 27, 2008, 08:35:21 PM
When I see the lenient sentences given to those who assault and murder trans women I have to come to the conclusion that getting a fair jury trial for a trans woman is as unlikely as having a trans person's murderer being sent up for life imprisonment.  It may happen, but it sure looks like it doesn't happen all that much.

Child, adult, black, gay, transwoman or man, doesnt matter, the maximum scentance should be given for murder full stop.

Quote from: Emelye on December 27, 2008, 08:35:21 PM
In light of these circumstances I think that putting this person into a criminal male general population is cruel and unusual punishment.  If she is guilty or not, the incarceration ought to be punishment enough.  The added "enhancement" of beatings and anal rape, while it may make us feel good that "the bastard is getting what he deserves," ought not to be encouraged by a fair and compassionate society.

Unfortunately even amongst prisoners there is a hierachy of crimes, Sexual offences being the worst, Solitary confinement will ensure this person remains without harm.

Quote from: Emelye on December 27, 2008, 08:35:21 PM
It also irks me that the female prison's occupants were allowed to use "discomfort" as an excuse to send someone to that sort of torturous punishment.  The whole thing is based on their prejudice and discrimination,  Nothing in the story suggested her behavior in the female prison was less than acceptable.  It was the other prisoner's prejudices that were allowed to rule the situation.

The needs of the many will always outweigh the needs of the few. The issue is with someone who has been convicted of being a rapist and still has male parts. If full SRS had been carried out, I doubt the issue would have arisen.


Buffy

They were keeping her in isolation in the woman's prison, so that tells me she was not all that safe either.  Prisons are not full of 'good girls gone wrong' they have plenty of woman that are just as cruel, just as violent, just as cold bloded just as pycho as their male counterparts.

Womens prisons are worse than male prisons in many ways... we can be so much more cruel, coniving and devious...
Tbh, i think if she was in isolation in the womens jail, why complaints? why a problem?

And emelye: Why CANT she be guilty? maybe ther is dicrimination, but is it impossible for a transwoman to be guilty of child rape? Transwomen are not innocent, pure, law abiding creatures... its like here on the forum some transwomen assume that all others are equally extreme librals etc...

QuoteIt pains me a bit to see that everyone assumes she is truly guilty of molesting someone

You are presumed innocent until proved guilty. In this country it takes a trail jury of unanimous decision beyond a shadow of a doubt and right to appeal. After that you "are guilty". Now there have been very few mistakes, which have most been corrected. Nothing is absolute but for all practical purposes a guilty person is punished. Where is the compassion for the victim?

Jail is never a nice place. If a person is in danger or dangerous they isolate them the best they can with the resources that the taxpayer allows. Our system is a democratic compromise some would like much harsher treatment.