Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I normally don't discuss problems with members with anyone but the member in question as a courtesy however in this situation I am going to do so because the user in question tried to rally public support on their blog...

Vexing has lost privilege of accessing this site for the next 30 days.  She received this punishment for repeated violations of the Terms Of Service.

Lets start with the final straw and the reason for the ban.

Quote from: Vexing on January 06, 2009, 07:22:01 PM
I wasn't aware of anything particularly 'trollish' about my posts; considering I've done my utmost to help others in various threads - i.e. pointing out the depression effects of general anesthetics, offering my support to non-op MtF's, explaining the benefits of therapy, etc, etc.
I feel rather...well, dejected about the whole deal.

But apparently I'm now branded with the description of 'Troll'.
One could assume, however, that if one is given the role, then one should act it out to the best of their abilities, yes?
What say you, fellow forumites?  ???

This message was posted as a public sympathy stunt. What's that you ask? A tactic used by someone in trouble to try to get public support on their side and to pressure the administration of this site to relent on a decision.

That doesn't work here. I specifically wrote rule #2 to target situations like these.

Quote2. Any attempts to stage protests, dispute the site policy, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; in the public areas of this site will not be tolerated and will result in your removal. If you have issues I suggest you contact susan@susans.org and not bring your issues into the public spaces on this website. For the proper way to raise issues see term #20 below.

Now lets move on to my first contact with Vexing.

After a post report spree between her and another user I sent her the following private message.

Quote from: Susan on December 29, 2008, 02:05:31 PM
Stop being so antagonistic in your messages.

To which she replied...

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 02:06:40 PM

Quote from: Susan on December 29, 2008, 02:05:31 PM
Stop being so antagonistic in your messages.

Could you provide an example, please?

Fairly tame response and I happily complied with her request and sent her oh five or so examples quickly culled from her recent posts.

Quote from: Susan on December 29, 2008, 03:15:14 PM

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 01:51:58 PM

Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=50121.msg324935#msg324935 date=1230551417
We could always just junk D&D and play World of Darkness or Shadowrun instead

I'd rather stab myself in the face with a broken bottle.

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 02:03:49 PM

Quote from: soldierjane on December 29, 2008, 02:01:18 PM
You know, I'd never have thought that worshipping the military and joining their ranks with fervor had anything to do with "bucking against authority". Are we talking about the same person? You know, her life's her life, but what you said was kinda funny.

I joined the military too - spent 6 years in the army. What's your point?

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 01:46:43 PM

Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=52303.msg324955#msg324955 date=1230559595
You must know a rough crowd. ;)

You must live in a convent.

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 01:38:21 PM

Quote from: Starbuck on December 29, 2008, 03:55:38 AM
Vexing fails at analogies

Starbuck fails at comprehension.
Unsurprising.

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 02:08:43 AM

Quote from: Starbuck on December 29, 2008, 02:02:26 AM
ever considered that might be why you are so damned depressed?

Care to qualify that?

Some examples....

Here's her response...

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 03:21:48 PM

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 01:51:58 PM
I'd rather stab myself in the face with a broken bottle.

That was humour.

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 02:03:49 PM
I joined the military too - spent 6 years in the army. What's your point?

What's antagonistic about this? I asked what her point about the military was.

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 01:46:43 PM

Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=52303.msg324955#msg324955 date=1230559595
You must know a rough crowd. ;)

You must live in a convent.

Again, humour.
I trust you gave Mina a warning as well, if you considered that exchange 'antagonistic'?

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 01:38:21 PM

Quote from: Starbuck on December 29, 2008, 03:55:38 AM
Vexing fails at analogies

Starbuck fails at comprehension.
Unsurprising.

Again, I trust Starbuck also received a warning for initiating the antagonism?

Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2008, 02:08:43 AM
Care to qualify that?

Calmly asking for clarification is antagonism?
Pull the other one Susan. Even you don't buy that.

Let's not beat around the bush here.
State you issue with me and be done with it. I'm not interested in playing games with you.
If there is a real issue, I'll do my best to help you resolve it.
Don't scapegoat me for the behaviour of others.

I banned her for 1 day with the reason "We can do it this way if you prefer..." I have no problems with her just feel her messages were intentionally brusk. Yes it's a word look it up.

When she returned she started using a banned avatar which mocked/mimicked our site's banned user avatar and was told by staff to change it...

Continued in the next post...

The following posts are from an staff thread on Vexing's banned avatar and following stunts...

Quote
Title: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: mod1 on January 04, 2009, 07:48:18 pm

This may be covered in places I don't have access to, and if so, I apologize.  But why is Vexing listed as banned but continuing to post?  On her profile it says nothing about being banned.  Now the "BANNED" sign is spinning on her avatar.  Is this her protest about Annwyn or something?   It appears (to me anyway) that she just copied the BANNED avatar and is flaunting it.  Whatever, it just looks very disrespectful to Susan.

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: mod2 on January 04, 2009, 07:58:48 pm

It's left over from when she was actually banned. She's done animated it though. But yeah, it does kind of look bad, her flaunting the banned sign.

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: admin1 on January 04, 2009, 08:34:04 pm

She is pushing things a little too far.  She is definitely flaunting the fact that she was banned, she wears it as a badge of honor so-to-speak.  She is also continue to protest the fact that Annwyn was banned.

Personally I don't think that she should be allowed to use the avatar.  In fact I'm going to PM her asking her to change it (Politely of course) and if she doesn't I think one of the Admins should let her have it.

Here's what I'm going to PM her...

QuoteHello there.

    The avatar that you are now using is causing some confusion amongst some of the members.  The avatar is very similar to the one the site uses to indicate a member who is banned.  You in fact are not banned therefore I would ask that you change the avatar to something less confusing.

    Thanks in advance.

Sent

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: admin1 on January 04, 2009, 09:02:32 pm

This is  her reply to my PM:

Quote
    It's not the same avatar; mine is animated, rotated and spans over 12 total frames, ending in a completely red frame.
    The 'banned member' avatar is not animated and it tilts upward on a roughly 40 degree angle.
    The difference should be clear immediately:

    (Susan's)


    (Mine)

    If you like, I can add a message at the end of my animated gif to clear up confusion.

    Thanks,

I replied with:

Quote
    What will the message say?

more to follow:

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: admin1 on January 04, 2009, 09:06:06 pm
Her proposed message:

Quote
    Something along the lines of:
    - No Vexings were banned in the making of this GIF
    - Vexing Rules (and isn't banned)
    - BIG RED WORDS!!!

    Kinda ruins the joke if I have to be too explicit, yeah?

So what does everyone think?

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: mod1 on January 04, 2009, 09:56:51 pm

Thanks, admin1, for trying.  Great job on that.

Well first of all, she just animated it today, while I was online it changed.  The intention seems to have been to thumb her nose at the rules here, and at Susan's authority.  Even the new one portrays this same message.  If this is her idea of a joke, I'm not laughing.

Sorry to sound like a killjoy.

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: admin1 on January 04, 2009, 10:11:23 pm

No need to apologize Hon you haven't done anything to apologize for.  I agree with you and I'll PM her to remove it as follows:

Quote
    I read your proposal but it would be best if you simply changed the avatar all together.  That way any intentional or unintentional inferences will be avoided.

    Thanks a bunch.

and we'll see what happens.

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: Susan on January 04, 2009, 10:17:30 pm

Ban her again for 3 days with the message that she will be re-banned each time we see a banned avatar or a parody thereof on her profile. So we suggest she remove it asap when the ban expires... Then if the avatar is still there in 4 days reban for 3 days each time...

Actually cancel that she just lost the ability to edit her profile...

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: mod3 on January 05, 2009, 09:03:59 pm
She now has an entire novel written under her custom title "They didn't like my other avatar so I made...blah, blah, blah"  ::)  She's surely my next candidate to win a special place under my ignore list!

QuoteTitle: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: mod2 on January 05, 2009, 09:25:58 pm

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53029.msg328454.html#new (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53029.msg328454.html#new) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53029.msg328454.html#new (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53029.msg328454.html#new))

vexing had the banned image she animated on her sig. i removed it.

pm

Quote
    removed the banned image from your signature. you can't use the site's banned image in your signature, hon.

her reply:

Quote
            I can't have an avatar either.
            If the mods insist on treating me like a child, I'll behave like one.

            Is the new sig more to your liking?

The new sig is just a bunch of rocks.  :)

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: mod1 on January 05, 2009, 10:05:59 pm

Well I do agree she is acting childish.  It is obvious she wants to be banned, and is just daring someone to do it.  I would remove her silly words.  Maybe she needs a new icon like:

(http://fc47.deviantart.com/fs4/i/2004/185/b/0/Baby.gif (http://fc47.deviantart.com/fs4/i/2004/185/b/0/Baby.gif))   or

(http://fc83.deviantart.com/fs10/i/2006/127/e/f/baby_by_THiC.gif (http://fc83.deviantart.com/fs10/i/2006/127/e/f/baby_by_THiC.gif))

Edit:  Sorry if that was uncalled for, just my feeble attempt at a bit of humor to lighten things up.

Quote
Title: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: admin2 on January 06, 2009, 12:56:19 am

I absolutely agree mod1!

Perhaps we should create a new sub board just for Vexing and user1 so they continue their own personal battles in peace, the "Stupid, childish, infant, flamming board" sounds about right.

It often worries me what any outsider (therapist for example) would think about how some people here behave, many of the people here would never get the go ahead to transition.

At times there seems the same level of discrimination and hatred we all fear and complain about, from within our own community.

QuoteTitle: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: mod4 on January 06, 2009, 01:03:00 am

A kid with a chip? Prolly, lots have 'em. I suspect a lot of us were just as brash in some ways at that age -- just didn't have an internet forum to play on. :)

She's getting strokes for doing it from somewhere, maybe only from herself. But yes, I'm sure the idea is to call attention to herself and to rouse the ire of someone, prolly Susan, maybe anyone. Prolly sees ire toward her as some badge of honor and importance. "The True Radical" :laugh:

Perhaps she could go somewhere like Palestine and protest Israeli tanks. Er, no that's prolly too radical for her.  >:-)

She does seem to be able to find ways to get under someone's skin, especially Rachael's!! I imagine that the lack of attention would eventually help her to move along on her own, so I like Tink's notion of ignoring her. Of course, before she realizes that no one is paying any attention she'll prolly aggravate the bejesus outta everyone on the board, so ignoring her will have it's own price.

Anyone have any growth hormone we could slip her in a drink? That might make her reach maturity a bit faster and she'd outgrow the entire phase of development!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

P.S.

Quote
    It often worries me what any outsider (therapist for example) would think about how some people here behave, many of the people here would never get the go ahead to transition.

    At times there seems the same level of discrimination and hatred we all fear and complain about, from within our own community.

:) From a newly licensed one whose just discovered she can practice privately within her state *yah* and is thinking about it, admin2, yep, some wouldn't get my go-ahead. But, my feelings about gate-keeping haven't been exactly quiet either. :)

There does seem to be that lil problem you mention of hate and discrimination amongst ourselves. Sadky, seems to be par for the course for groups who are generally repressed by the larger society. Sometimes it seems like we're our own worst enemies! *sigh*

QuoteTitle: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: Susan on January 06, 2009, 06:53:09 pm

(troll image)

...I created a new punishment group No Profile which removes the ability to edit additional profile information...

QuoteTitle: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: mod5 on January 06, 2009, 08:02:33 pm

Hmm,

I understand your reason Susan but can we mark her with something other then troll. Maybe "Loud Mouth", "Emotional Girl". Technically she is not a troll as she does say on topic, It just that her emotions get in the way of sensible discussion.

QuoteTitle: Re: OK, So I had to ask
Post by: mod6 on January 06, 2009, 08:11:41 pm

While Vexing may be reaping what she sowed I think that the use of the avatar "Don't feed the Troll" is a little too far in fact any form of branding is not appropriate.  Personally I feel that a long term ban would be more effective (Out of sight, out of mind) as the avatar has generated a topic of conversation in Vexings Blog:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53086.msg328965.html#msg328965 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53086.msg328965.html#msg328965) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53086.msg328965.html#msg328965 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53086.msg328965.html#msg328965))

and in this Newbie post here:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53095.msg329031.html#msg329031 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53095.msg329031.html#msg329031) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53095.msg329031.html#msg329031 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53095.msg329031.html#msg329031))

that seems to be getting her some sympathy from other members, possibly generating ill will in the forums with members taking sides.  I don't think this is what we want.

Just my 2 cents.

Ok the posts above were from one of serveral staff forum threads on this issue...

She sent me the following pm...

Quote from: Vexing on January 06, 2009, 07:13:00 PM
What is your problem?
Can we actually discuss it like adults, or are you just going to keep randomly making whimsical decisions without any justification?
What was wrong with my signature?
What IS your problem?

I replied to it

Quote from: Susan on January 06, 2009, 09:12:18 PM
Your banned avatar, signature, and custom titles all violated The TOS specifically #2.

Quote2. Any attempts to stage protests, dispute the site policy, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; in the public areas of this site will not be tolerated and will result in your removal. If you have issues I suggest you contact susan@susans.org and not bring your issues into the public spaces on this website. For the proper way to raise issues see term #20 below.

As for the ability to edit your profile, you might earn it back one day provided you stop being argumentative towards the other members and staff, stop pushing people and the rules to see just how long you can get away with it. Become a part of this community, stop trying to tear it down.

It was just before seing the message from mod6 that I saw her blog post on the site and removed her blog. I notified her of this via pm.

Quote from: Susan on January 06, 2009, 09:17:39 PM
You have lost your blog for violations of TOS #2.

That was exactly the situation that part of the TOS was written to address.

While re-reading the post in her blog I decided that removing the blog wasn't enough and banned her for 30 days.

The morale of this story is don't think you are getting the whole story from a user whining about being punished for actions on this site, you most likely havn't gotten the "Full story" As Paul Harvey would say Good day...

Thanks for sharing that Susan. Her posts had me intrigued on what had happened. I figured she'd done some major rule breaking. :D

With regard to some of the posts made by Vexing, I'd agree that some may be viewed as only humor. However, that being said I do think that Vexing, along with some others, tend to instigate and antagonize to a point beyond a reasonable level that begins to depart from the core reason for this site and these forums...which is support. These forums, like most others, go through their ups and downs and stages with more rowdy users, but with this site dealing with such personal and emotional issues, the rules cannot afford to be broken as easily as on a generic message board.

Vexing does provide valuable support and comfort to other users which I would hope she continues to do when her account is re-instated. But maybe a little more restraint with regard to handling a topic that is spiraling out of control and getting into the realm of personal attacks is necessary. For instance, if I notice a thread is getting too heated, or starting to drift off point I usually try to leave it be and move on to others instead of continue an endless and hopeless battle with someone else.

Anyways, thanks for the update Susan.

- Sarah

I like Vexing, it sounds like she accidently pushed the invisible panic button as flaming ants are running everywhere. Maybe if it were all handled a little more diplomaticly in the first place it would not have gotten this far.

Interesting, I hadn't noticed she'd replied to my post.

Too bad, I kind of liked her before she took up this whole Annwyn issue. And those MS Paint drawings were killer, man ;)

Thanks for the update by the way, I was curious as to what had happened but surmised it was something like this.

Vexing was one of the few who gave me any sort of workable advice on here. Because of her I am now chilling with a hot little trans girl hottie. Lol ... I don't think that helps her case any.

To some extent I think someone may actually enjoying the attention, she probably had at least 3 profiles running by now under different names......

Just an observation.... ::)

Well she sure lived up to her name.....  :icon_poke:

I Like her personality, she can be a cool cat when her claws aren't out.

I never read some of the quoted posts written here though.

Not cool Vex!  :eusa_naughty:

Thanks for posting the whole story.

I realize now that my post may have seemed like I was taking a side on this whole Vexing issue, which really wasn't the case. It was the inboard hostility (definitely contributed to on her side) that was making me uncomfortable. That said, I'm glad this thing will be quieting down.