Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I mean sure, the almighty shaft is much celebrated but compare that to the whole female body.
And I'm talking on the whole, for those about to protest - we have only to turn on the tv or the magazine stand to see the difference.
Women's bodies sell (in more ways than one) - much more than men's.
Women's bodies are pretty. Women's bodies are hot.

What IS it about the curve of the breast, the width of the hips, the roundness of the ass, the shape of the legs, etc?

For someone about to buy the less curvacious and less celebrated model of the human body, I really want to know.

A lot of it is a power thing. It's mostly hetero men in power, so they get to objectify women. Everything is tied into the straight male sex drive. So a lot of this "celebration" is merely sexism, objectification.

(Personally, I've always preferred the male body, but that's because I like men.)

Quote from: Nero on January 24, 2009, 03:54:29 PM
For someone about to buy the less curvacious and less celebrated model of the human body, I really want to know.

Lol, I like how you put that.  I've wondered about this, too.  It is more common to see half-naked women in advertising than half naked men.  Y'know the old saying "sex sells."  The question then is: why are women so much more prominent than men?  Maybe it is a straight male power thing, like Arch says. However, it does leave those who are sexually interested in the male body out in the cold.  An exception I've noticed: Abercrombie & Fitch, where the windows are decorated with half-nude young men... perhaps even more men than women.  I dunno, do more straight girls & gay guys shop at Abercrombie & Fitch than lesbians and straight guys?  Would straight girls/gay guys be put off by a shop plastered with half-nude women--is the objectification of any sex in advertising simply a marketing ploy to target a certain group?  (Edit: I just looked at the A&F website, and the *ONLY* pictures of females on that site's gallery involve the female kissing some male model... are they perhaps advertising wishful thinking to girls, ie 'if I wear A&F clothes, hot boys will be interested in me'?)

From an artistic standpoint, I think both the male & female form can be very beautiful.  In fact, I find it impossible to say that one is more beautiful than the other; they have different physical qualities, sure, but both can be a wonder to look at *thinking of Michelangelo's David & Goya's Naked Maja, among others*

Though I will confess, as of right now I am not terribly interested in looking at female bodies.  They remind me of what I currently have, and I find it painful to see.  Maybe that will change on T; I don't know.

It's a cultural norm I guess. What saddens me about it though is how it seems like women have to hide parts of their bodies, but only show the cleavage or legs as some sort of peep show.
Actually I wouldn't say women's bodies really are celebrated in our society. Like Arch said, they're more objectified.

I'm with Arch. It's not as much celebration as objectification. Straight guys lust after women, and because they are in the dominant position in this society, it's much more easy for them to force what they desire to go on display. And the big problem is that many women buy into that idea and try their best to become the objects men desire, because they in turn believe subconsciously that this will bring THEM more power and wealth and stuff. Sadly many women believe this to be the only way.  :-\

Mina.

I agree
I think T makes people more aggressive and desire to be dominant. Men are turned on by visual images, women not as much. I've noticed since I started E I'm a lot more emotinal and less aggressive in everyway. I look at women and think, I would like to look like her, or I like her clothes ,hair style et etc. I look at guys and either think they are cute or not.

Be interesting to see how you feel after T, Nero.

LoL
Cindy J

The gentle curves of women are generally considered more pleasant to look at.

Advertising with a woman targets both genders. Men want the girl, girls want to be the girl or look like her. If you advertise with guys, it fails on the male side as they don't care to be the guy.

I have never felt anything else except envy looking at women, as early as I can remember. As for admiring I can just as easily admire only, men as I do women. I had girl friends but they were friends to hang around with not to go on dates with. But from the boy talk I heard, it was all mostly a sexual arousal thing, *pigs.* Small wonder I'd only had but a select few guy friends. But there are some guys that can be gentlemen and are appreciative of a woman's body like a work of the finest of art, and will treat you as such.

Cindy   

Quote from: Leslie Ann on January 25, 2009, 03:43:13 AM
Advertising with a woman targets both genders. Men want the girl, girls want to be the girl or look like her. If you advertise with guys, it fails on the male side as they don't care to be the guy.

I would agree with that, to a certain extent. In terms of advertising, a lot of men have a certain... arrogance (I don't mean that in a bad way) when they see other men advertised. They see them perhaps as competition or a threat to their own masculinity, whereas a lot of women see advertised women as an aspiration.

Maybe it's an evolutionary instinct going back to males competing with each other for leadership of the group. They don't want to copy another male, they want to prove they're better, more able. So to see an idealised male figure presented, it may cause subconscious feelings of inferiority, resentment, aggression.

The aspirational aspect with women isn't just in terms of looks, either. I would guess it depends on what's being advertised. Portraying women in positions of power and authority, assertive and decisive, appeals to those women who may not have outlets for those qualities in their lives... a sort of "Girl Power" effect, (although I really dislike using that term).

The attraction/sexual aspect is pretty self-explanatory. But that may be why advertising with women appeals to a wider audience, and thus, a more appealing prospect for ad companies.

Quote from: Nero on January 24, 2009, 03:54:29 PM
What IS it about the curve of the breast, the width of the hips, the roundness of the ass, the shape of the legs, etc?

It's said that nature doesn't do straight lines, and maybe there's something in that. Although who knows... on some level, maybe it's more Freudian and simply a desire for a replacement mother, and maternal love. Maybe we all just miss being breastfed, lol. ;D

I enjoy the balance of the female body, and I enjoy the internal setup versus the testes and stuff... Cause I don't like... Er... Saggy stuff...

I know breasts are kind of that way too, but they're just part of everything. They don't look like gross little alien egg things that hang inside a TINY piece of skin. Balls are kind of gross I think, to be honest. Penises are freaking sweet...  Just not my cup of tea.


I really like its form and balance, and grace. Male bodies can be interesting too, but unless accessorized, they're just so boring and straight in comparison.

Boobs are pretty much exactly the same as testicles... just a bigger target :( Big glands that hang weightily off a womans chest and get in the way, hurt when unsupported and you move too fast... yeah, totally streamlined and internalised.


Spend a night in the pub with your best mate.... watch an international rugby match perhaps?

We did... by the end of the game, we didnt know who played, what the score was... but we sure knew who had a nice arse ....

Straight women celebrate the male form just as much imo.... and men flaunt it as much, its just less socially 'erotic' being a patriarcal society... men rule so thier desired sex (for the majority) is placed on the highest pedestal.

Plus, i see nothing wrong with being told im pretty, or i have a good body, or being looked at by men... it afirms my sensuality and self worth... I LIKE being attractive, i LIKE to be admired... If thats shallow or lacks personality... those who know me know thats bull....

Quote from: Arch on January 24, 2009, 04:15:04 PM
A lot of it is a power thing. It's mostly hetero men in power, so they get to objectify women. Everything is tied into the straight male sex drive. So a lot of this "celebration" is merely sexism, objectification.

(Personally, I've always preferred the male body, but that's because I like men.)

Had it in one!

I know you Starbuck hon, don't post back and forth much but I know you. Reading your post just made me wish I was 20 years younger. ;D

Cindy

Undoubtedly tastes vary but few things will have me gawking at pictures like a fire fighter's calendar!  ;D

My favorite thing I even learned at school when I was doing photography was "the girl is the model, the guy is the accessory".
Its because the female body is a work of art while the male body looks like the spare parts.

I have to disagree.... The male body has its own beauty... just as a classical romance would compare to a impressionist scene... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so far, men are the holders ;)

Yeah, its two different standards of beauty, one soft curves, the other a more angular strength.  Guys may only be accessories in photos, and I think that's true, but in classical sculpture there are some amazing males, and in movies its almost all about the guys.  Music too, I think there are a lot more 'pretty boys' in rock than 'pretty girls.' 

depends... most of the good bands have hot guys... and usually in the grungy genuinely awesome musician way... as for girls... theres a fair share... Nightwish, evanesence, lacuna coil, paramore, flyleaf, etc....

tbh, nothing gives me that drooling daydreaming feeling like a really cute guy with muscle bulging in his teeshirt... that big square jaw, the stubble... its not the Mercedes Benz... but god armoured vehicles turn me on.... XD

Ted Nugent?  The Nuge man, he's all about the hunting stuff.  Performs in camo and all that. 

But sure, I love that tough girl deal, and Joan Jett and others pull it off well, and Amy Lee is fantastic, but I like Shelia E. too, all that beauty and she plays like a goddess.

Well, if there's anything that art and studying the anatomy of the human body has taught me...

Both bodies are lovely in their own ways.

The female body is supposed to be perfected beauty whereas the male body is supposed to be perfected anatomy. That doesn't mean the male body is any less beautiful, though.

Quote from: tekla on January 26, 2009, 09:11:44 AM
Ted Nugent?  The Nuge man, he's all about the hunting stuff.  Performs in camo and all that. 

But sure, I love that tough girl deal, and Joan Jett and others pull it off well, and Amy Lee is fantastic, but I like Shelia E. too, all that beauty and she plays like a goddess.

Amy lee doesnt do the tough girl act, her music is honest and vulnerable... especially considering her history... Evanesence's latest album has so much feeling and emotion in... its true music as it was meant to be. From the soul

i agree (with Starbuck?)

women do look at guys, and are judging them and rating them, qualifiying and disqualifying them, *all* the time.

guys get objectified or worse (ignored) by women wherever they go.

Quote from: Starbuck on January 26, 2009, 11:30:06 AM

Quote from: tekla on January 26, 2009, 09:11:44 AM
Ted Nugent?  The Nuge man, he's all about the hunting stuff.  Performs in camo and all that. 

But sure, I love that tough girl deal, and Joan Jett and others pull it off well, and Amy Lee is fantastic, but I like Shelia E. too, all that beauty and she plays like a goddess.

Amy lee doesnt do the tough girl act, her music is honest and vulnerable... especially considering her history... Evanesence's latest album has so much feeling and emotion in... its true music as it was meant to be. From the soul

Her stuffs ok. I kind of prefer Amanda Palmer though. She's hilarious and beautiful. I love how she combines pretty vocals of clarity with a jaded tired vocals... They are tragic and beautiful...

Quote from: CindyJames on January 25, 2009, 02:16:21 AM
I think T makes people more aggressive and desire to be dominant.

Cindy J

You need only to look at that show on TV called Human Wrecking Balls where two burly men destroy things without tools.  It's pretty funny watching these guys!  And they are so proud of themselves when they have destroyed something with only their hands, feet and bodies.  :P

Julie

Quote from: Starbuck on January 26, 2009, 07:53:48 AM
I have to disagree.... The male body has its own beauty... just as a classical romance would compare to a impressionist scene... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so far, men are the holders ;)

I was always told that beauty was in the eye of the beer holder ;)

Quote from: Kara-Xen on January 26, 2009, 12:52:57 PM

Quote from: Starbuck on January 26, 2009, 11:30:06 AM

Quote from: tekla on January 26, 2009, 09:11:44 AM
Ted Nugent?  The Nuge man, he's all about the hunting stuff.  Performs in camo and all that. 

But sure, I love that tough girl deal, and Joan Jett and others pull it off well, and Amy Lee is fantastic, but I like Shelia E. too, all that beauty and she plays like a goddess.

Amy lee doesnt do the tough girl act, her music is honest and vulnerable... especially considering her history... Evanesence's latest album has so much feeling and emotion in... its true music as it was meant to be. From the soul

Her stuffs ok. I kind of prefer Amanda Palmer though. She's hilarious and beautiful. I love how she combines pretty vocals of clarity with a jaded tired vocals... They are tragic and beautiful...

not heard of her... i might have? but im not pos... Either way, my point wasnt voice, it was the meaning, Amungst her fans, its common knowlage that during the period of the 'fallen' album, she was  and before then, sexually abused by her boyfriend, the then guitarist, and physical abuse by her manager, the woman suffered imense torture, but remained strong, and the open door is literally that... shes exposing her soul in song, and its so beautiful... i have nothing but respect for her... one of my personal heroines.

Quote from: Starbuck on January 26, 2009, 09:38:30 PM

Quote from: Kara-Xen on January 26, 2009, 12:52:57 PM

Quote from: Starbuck on January 26, 2009, 11:30:06 AM

Quote from: tekla on January 26, 2009, 09:11:44 AM
Ted Nugent?  The Nuge man, he's all about the hunting stuff.  Performs in camo and all that. 

But sure, I love that tough girl deal, and Joan Jett and others pull it off well, and Amy Lee is fantastic, but I like Shelia E. too, all that beauty and she plays like a goddess.

Amy lee doesnt do the tough girl act, her music is honest and vulnerable... especially considering her history... Evanesence's latest album has so much feeling and emotion in... its true music as it was meant to be. From the soul

Her stuffs ok. I kind of prefer Amanda Palmer though. She's hilarious and beautiful. I love how she combines pretty vocals of clarity with a jaded tired vocals... They are tragic and beautiful...

not heard of her... i might have? but im not pos... Either way, my point wasnt voice, it was the meaning, Amungst her fans, its common knowlage that during the period of the 'fallen' album, she was  and before then, sexually abused by her boyfriend, the then guitarist, and physical abuse by her manager, the woman suffered imense torture, but remained strong, and the open door is literally that... shes exposing her soul in song, and its so beautiful... i have nothing but respect for her... one of my personal heroines.

So her abusive boyfriend helped her make music about her struggles because of him?!
I used to listen to Evanescence, lol.
Thats messed. And I didn't just mean voice either. :) I also love lyrics. Amanda Palmer was in the Dresden Dolls. That is where you may have heard. Good songs by her and them include Gravity, Half-Jack, Runs in the Family, Guitar Hero. Hilarious and touching songs, or just plain addictive and depressing like Half-Jack

No, fallen was very comercial in the gothrock scene... it was pushed out, not really anything to do with thier relationship, or the abuse she suffered at the hands of the bands manager. The later album, when both were gone from the picture is more, expresssive, without saying the words... she doesnt have to.

Wow. I guess it makes sense that Fallen was more marketed than personal.

Quote from: Starbuck on January 26, 2009, 09:04:43 AM
tbh, nothing gives me that drooling daydreaming feeling like a really cute guy with muscle bulging in his teeshirt... that big square jaw, the stubble... its not the Mercedes Benz... but god armoured vehicles turn me on.... XD

Totally true!!  Hard to contain myself when I'm at a concert. =D If you want to meet some hot guys go to concerts!!!  Trust me, they travel in flocks there! 

Quote from: Arch on January 24, 2009, 04:15:04 PM
A lot of it is a power thing. It's mostly hetero men in power, so they get to objectify women. Everything is tied into the straight male sex drive. So a lot of this "celebration" is merely sexism, objectification.

^ this.

Quote from: Starbuck on January 26, 2009, 07:53:48 AM
The male body has its own beauty... just as a classical romance would compare to a impressionist scene... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so far, men are the holders ;)

^ and this.

^-^

Because women take better care of theirs and wear nicer clothes ;)

Z