Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have had two different friends say they feel I only want to transition because I think my life will be easier as a man. One of the actual phrases was "you failed as a woman, so you're taking the easy way out."

My mind is blown at how they can possibly think any of this is easier than being cisgendered.

I would understand their point if transitioning just involved magically switching genders. "I'm not getting along in life too well....I know...I'll try being a man today, see how that goes!"

I can't even put into words how angry and disappointed in my friends this makes me  :-\

I've heard people use this excuse before. Not on me, but I've heard it with others.

The easy way out? I don't see how it really is. It just seems like a ploy to make people stay uncomfortable in their own bodies. They don't want you to be a man so they try to reason with you so you fit their bill.

Um, if this were a "way out," it would definately be the hard way out.

Don't be angry with them, honey, they don't know how it feels. Their ignorance is not altogether their fault. You can try and explain it to them, but you can't understand it for them. And if they haven't actually experienced the feelings and needs you have, they can't fully know why you have to do this. Their views are coloured by their gender identity, just as yours are coloured by your own. And with something this deeply personal and integral to the psyche of the individual... it's hard for others to grasp on the same level that you feel it by instinct.

Monty may be onto something, in that they may feel a certain level of betrayal, too, and a part of their comments may stem from feeling hurt and lashing out.

Just... try and be patient. *hugs* If you want these friendships to work, don't give up on them.

Just be yourself and let the negative comments roll of your back and disapate.  :laugh:

What prompted the anger is more the fact the second friend said it behind my back  :( Why couldn't she have said it to my face? I would then at least have the opportunity to explain it to her.

Have you talked to them? Told them how you're feeling? Open, honest communication can solve a lot of things and often dissolve problems before they become insurmountable. Maybe it would be a good idea if you all sat down together and cleared the air.

Don't bottle it up and harbor resentment towards them, honey, as warranted as it may or may not be. Remember why you chose to be friends with them to start with.

Make an opportunity to explain now, before things go any further. :)

The guy who said it to my face I had a long long long discussion with, and I think he may get it. He's started treating me like one of the guys now. (which generally means talking to me about chicks but whatever :P)

If I bring it up with the girl who said it behind my back then she'll know that someone told me. Not sure how to bring it up, I don't like bringing it up  :-X

Don't bring it up. Just smile and say B!tc# every so often when you do talk to her  :laugh:

I really would not recommend doing that unless you want to start a bunch of >-bleeped-<. She doesn't get it, and that hurts enough to begin with but now she's going behind your back and that can hurt the worst.

If you want to confront her you could try mimicking the techniques of motivational interviewing (google it). Try asking her questions like why she thinks that, why she feels she can't say it to you etc.

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 19, 2009, 07:10:05 PM
I have had two different friends say they feel I only want to transition because I think my life will be easier as a man. One of the actual phrases was "you failed as a woman, so you're taking the easy way out."

Heh, friends can easily become not friends by projecting their insecurities onto others this way.

It sounds like they're jealous that you're courageous enough to live the way you want to live.  If your mental response to, "You failed as a woman" is, "Damn straight I did," then it sounds like you're on the right track.

Also, I agree with the rest: most people are ignorant and won't take the time to find out what it feels like to be assigned a gender role by society that you don't want to play.

Find new friends?

In my experience, this is a pretty darned common response. While I'm not sure I can give you any good comebacks, I can say that in my 2 1/2 years living as a man, I've noticed it's actually far tougher to live this way.

As a "girl," people always assumed I was kind and gentle, even when I was being a bitch. I got jobs quite easily, despite looking butch, because jobs in retail are often (in my experience) given to women over men. When I got into an altercation with a girl, it would be an argument between the two of us, and no one else. When I got into an altercation with a guy, the argument was dead in the water. No physical threats were made toward me, regardless of how hostile I was toward whatever guy in question.

As a dude... everything I say, even if it's entirely honest and spoken in what I believe to be a kind manner, is taken in the worst possible way. I can't get a job in the female-oriented arenas I used to, despite my lengthy experience in the field. If I have an altercation with a girl, any guy nearby has to get involved with maximum machismo, regardless of whether the argument was something as simply as whether 2+2 equals 4 or 5. The second a guy gets involved, whether or not my problem was with him in the first place, things get threatening and physical. I'm a pretty passive guy... I don't like to fight. It's not too fun when everything turns into one.

Trust me... it's not easier to be a guy, especially when you've lived as a girl for so long. Sure, perhaps men get ahead in business... but that's about it. People who say any differently are simply ignorant.

SD

Quote from: chrysalis on February 19, 2009, 11:48:50 PM
I really would not recommend doing that unless you want to start a bunch of >-bleeped-<.

Ain't life a bitch. The >-bleeped-<'s already been started with someone talkin' smack behind your back. Sure, try to reason with her? A back stabber never changes. And yes, being a guy is a rough and tumble biz. There is no walk in the park or pleasure cruise. Everyone, male and female will be on your >-bleeped-< 24/7. Especially if your a nice guy. Sorry, just speaking from experience  :laugh:

Well in this society there are still a lot of female vs male. And its "common knowledge" that guys have an easier life (yeah sure)

Mostly its the retrograde behavior.

I think your "friend" thinks that how hard a girl has to fight in this society to get recognized and stuff, and then using that she feels betrayed at you taking the "easy route"

Duh, like being a guy its really easy... Plus you having to transition its not peaches and cream.


I wont recommend telling insults to her. That would just get her on the defensive and use another weapon telling you how "female" that behavior is.

Well no, don't insult her. Just lay your cards on the table and call her on it. "Well, watcha Got?"  :laugh: A true friend will come clean. Your guy friend seems to be trying to get along and be supportive in his own guy way. Prob. because he cares about you and keeping you as a friend. He may not know how to act right away but is making an effort.  :laugh: Most of my behavior is rather fem. I'm just trying to help because I hate that behind your back stuff. It brings out the bitch in me  >:-)

Quote from: Monty on February 19, 2009, 07:13:29 PM
I've heard people use this excuse before. Not on me, but I've heard it with others.

The easy way out? I don't see how it really is. It just seems like a ploy to make people stay uncomfortable in their own bodies. They don't want you to be a man so they try to reason with you so you fit their bill.

Exactly. And if your so called "friends" truely think that.. then they aren't work sticking around for.

Quote from: Virginia Marie on February 20, 2009, 12:10:16 AM
Ain't life a bitch.

I don't think we know enough about the situation to assume such a negative stance...yet. I agree it isn't friendly, but it doesn't sound like there has been much dialogue between them about the subject and I'm assuming he found out about this comment through someone else so we know even less about the context etc. of the comment.

Trans isn't something many people are acquainted with and so there will be some rough patches in the coming out process. It's possible that her friend is more confused etc. by this and a good face to face conversation could possibly iron things out. I'm not hopeful, people don't seem to take stuff like this very well, but friends are among the greatest external means to happiness and a good one is hard to come by. It's worth it to confirm she's a bitch before you cut her loose.

And just to add credibility to my statement I've had my best friend backstab me about this and some other deeper secrets in an even worse way, and personally I asked him about it before I decided to cut him off. He lied to me, but I've known him long enough to be able to tell when he's full of >-bleeped-<. He's a >-bleeped-<ing bastard but I'm very glad that I found that out for sure before cutting him out of my life.

PLease cut down on the swearing and you kids behave yourself.

Quote from: Natalie3174 on February 20, 2009, 04:37:19 AM
PLease cut down on the swearing and you kids behave yourself.

Kids? and how old are you miss star wars?

Quote from: Ashling on February 19, 2009, 11:54:02 PM
It sounds like they're jealous that you're courageous enough to live the way you want to live.  If your mental response to, "You failed as a woman" is, "Damn straight I did," then it sounds like you're on the right track.

haha yeah my response to "you failed as a woman" was like....well done sherlock...that's because I'm a freakin boy  :D

oh and you guys, if you ever try to explain this stuff to a bio-guy, never use the phrase "how would you feel if you woke up one day and suddenly you had a womans body?" - apparently having boobs to play with 24/7 would be a dream come true  :P

But yeah, the girl who said it is generally known for thinking she's right about everything and that she's seen it all and done it all - I don't think there's much point trying to convince her. She can just be one of those friends who's fun to hang out with but not the kind of friend I can call at 3am with my problems  ;D

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 20, 2009, 11:38:13 AM

oh and you guys, if you ever try to explain this stuff to a bio-guy, never use the phrase "how would you feel if you woke up one day and suddenly you had a womans body?" - apparently having boobs to play with 24/7 would be a dream come true  :P

Uh-huh, until they realize that they cannot just put them in a closet and keep them there when they want to.

Besides, I'm sure they'd find wonderful ways to mess up toilets even more as they stood trying to hit the thing with a cat. LOL

Nichole

That's not someone I'd call a friend. She's an acquaintance and now a threat as well. Buy 30 hits of liquid LSD and slip it in her drink, it won't teach her much, but revenge is oh so sweet.

Quote from: Leiandra on February 19, 2009, 07:42:50 PM
Don't be angry with them, honey, they don't know how it feels. Their ignorance is not altogether their fault. You can try and explain it to them, but you can't understand it for them. And if they haven't actually experienced the feelings and needs you have, they can't fully know why you have to do this. Their views are coloured by their gender identity, just as yours are coloured by your own. And with something this deeply personal and integral to the psyche of the individual... it's hard for others to grasp on the same level that you feel it by instinct.

Monty may be onto something, in that they may feel a certain level of betrayal, too, and a part of their comments may stem from feeling hurt and lashing out.

Just... try and be patient. *hugs* If you want these friendships to work, don't give up on them.

Leia said it so beautifully here.  I adamantly agree.  Don't let people like this get you down, man.  Keep your own good foremost in your mind at all times.  There will always be people who say things like this.  Leia's advice is "right on!"  Hugs!

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 20, 2009, 11:38:13 AM

oh and you guys, if you ever try to explain this stuff to a bio-guy, never use the phrase "how would you feel if you woke up one day and suddenly you had a womans body?" - apparently having boobs to play with 24/7 would be a dream come true  :P

Heh, it feels like we're ships crossing in the night. 

It wasn't too long ago (just a few months ago) that I was objectifying women, looking at them in a lusty way, basically thinking in a stereotypical male way.  I always knew "having boobs to play with" wouldn't be fun if they were YOUR OWN boobs, and now I'm starting to understand what that means in terms of my own body image. 

Having to act like a guy all the time (still not living alone yet, still not out of closet at work) SUCKS.

Here's some things you're probably noticing suck about the guy world: 1) the constant homophobia and using the word "gay" used to represent anything that isn't masculine, 2) swearing more than a dirty sailor, just to match the other guys, 3) every guy knows everything about every sport, but you have a complete lack of knowledge about sports or anything sports related, 4) you have to lust after every girl you see just b/c she has tits/ass.  I swear, can't I just be friends with the girl buying something at the grocery store?  Why do I have to want to "do her"?

Those are the things that bother me, I'm sure everybody's different.  But the female "world" is looking really appealing to me right now....

Quote from: Ashling on February 21, 2009, 01:24:12 AM

1) the constant homophobia and using the word "gay" used to represent anything that isn't masculine, 2) swearing more than a dirty sailor, just to match the other guys, 3) every guy knows everything about every sport, but you have a complete lack of knowledge about sports or anything sports related, 4) you have to lust after every girl you see just b/c she has tits/ass.  I swear, can't I just be friends with the girl buying something at the grocery store?  Why do I have to want to "do her"?

That's only applicable if you're hanging out with the typical dude crew. The guys I know conform to none of these. Then again it is a university crowd where mostly everyone considers themselves bi to a degree.

My group is more of an arty intellectual bunch. We don't watch sports, 'gay' isn't a pejorative, cussing happens but we try to make sure it's with a certain imagination, and lusting as you describe it is non-existent. Heck even the more rough and tumble crew of mechanics etc. I know is like that.

I don't feel like you can be angry at people who are uneducated.  Sit down and have a really frank discussion with them to clear it up.  You're gonna want as many people in your corner as you can so don't go alienating cisgendered people because they have no frame of reference for GID.

Quote from: Mister on February 21, 2009, 03:28:24 PM
I don't feel like you can be angry at people who are uneducated.  Sit down and have a really frank discussion with them to clear it up.  You're gonna want as many people in your corner as you can so don't go alienating cisgendered people because they have no frame of reference for GID.

EXCELLENT point!!!  Taking an understanding rather than a defensive attitude toward others can go a long way.  People will eventually have to accept who you are.  If for some reason they can't, then that's their problem, but I think at least giving others the chance to understand you is absolutely critical.

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 20, 2009, 11:38:13 AM
if you ever try to explain this stuff to a bio-guy, never use the phrase "how would you feel if you woke up one day and suddenly you had a womans body?" - apparently having boobs to play with 24/7 would be a dream come true  :P

Yes.....I learned that lesson the hard way too.  I got, "Holy >-bleeped-<!  First, I'd play with myself all day...."

*sigh*  not a good example for a guy.



Bev

Quote from: Ashling on February 21, 2009, 01:24:12 AM
Here's some things you're probably noticing suck about the guy world: 1) the constant homophobia and using the word "gay" used to represent anything that isn't masculine, 2) swearing more than a dirty sailor, just to match the other guys, 3) every guy knows everything about every sport, but you have a complete lack of knowledge about sports or anything sports related, 4) you have to lust after every girl you see just b/c she has tits/ass.  I swear, can't I just be friends with the girl buying something at the grocery store?  Why do I have to want to "do her"?

Those are the things that bother me, I'm sure everybody's different.  But the female "world" is looking really appealing to me right now....

I apologise XD I'm one of the kind of guys you would hate. I say everything is gay just as a general term. "My computer is being gay" .... that kind of thing. I swear constantly. I'm not particularly interested in sports but I can explain the offside rule so I guess that's something...and I do end up objectifying woman when I hang with other guys  :-X

QuoteHere's some things you're probably noticing suck about the guy world: 1) the constant homophobia and using the word "gay" used to represent anything that isn't masculine, 2) swearing more than a dirty sailor, just to match the other guys, 3) every guy knows everything about every sport, but you have a complete lack of knowledge about sports or anything sports related, 4) you have to lust after every girl you see just b/c she has tits/ass.  I swear, can't I just be friends with the girl buying something at the grocery store?  Why do I have to want to "do her"?

this sounds like my lady more than any of my male friends.

I to have had a friend say i sucked as a female so now I am going to give being a male a try as the easy way out. I have also got this as a response to a conversation.
"Please calle me Jake now. I no longer want to be identified with the name Jessica"
"Well you are always going to be Jessica to me no matter what. I dont do the call me by another name stuff. You were born with a VJJ get over it."

When that conversation was held I was totally blown away. Mind you the person who said this to me was an ex girlfriend who I dated for 3 years and she is no married to a guy and has a kid from him. When we were together she use to call me Jake.

People fear what they dont understand so to make themselves feel better they have to trash talk it and try to make thier way sound better.