Susan's Place Transgender Resources

No good can come of this news,


BANGKOK, Thailand  — The suspect in the murder of American child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey was treated at a Bangkok clinic specializing in sex-change operations and cosmetic surgery, clinic officials said Sunday.


     http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209480,00.html

I read about this and was very dismayed.  No matter what the truth is about this person,from now on for a long while all transgendered people will be child molesters and murderers in many people's eyes. >:(

It's possible that John Karr was trying to get SRS in order to alleviate the urges he had towards children or to escape prosecution, all the wrong reasons of course, or it may just be another symptom of a unique psychosis but the damage has already been done.

I suppose it will just be another point that we'll have to educate people about.  As if we didn't have enough to work against!

helen

 :icon_no:

Nero

Oh that's so not good :(

I suspect the guy didn't do it too and is just one of these whackos who has made a false confession. Mind you, I suspect teachers are equally unhappy with this guy.

Dennis

Quote from: Dennis on August 20, 2006, 12:04:35 PM
Oh that's so not good :(

I suspect the guy didn't do it too and is just one of these whackos who has made a false confession. Mind you, I suspect teachers are equally unhappy with this guy.

Dennis

Curious.  Why do you suspect that this is a flase confession?

Chaunte

Chaunte,
    I agree it is a false confession as well. Mainly because his story does not fit the time frame. He says he picked her up from school, mind you she was found on December 26, no school that week. And  says he drugged her, but there were no drugs found in her system. Among other things. The guy is a loon. But not innocent. :(
                                 Marco

                   I cannot believe what I just heard on a cable news show. A forensic psycologist said "his seeking a sex change shows mental instability and taking hormones add to that instability"   The news has sunk to new lows, what they put out is no where near the truth on any subject.




beth

They are now trying to say the freak that has admitted to killing her was a transsexual, and that may have been linked to his actions. If you want to let the AP know how we feel about this blantant smear email them (info@ap.org)!

JonBenet Suspect Heads to U.S. in Style (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060820/D8JKD9U00.html)
Aug 20, 5:32 PM (ET)
By JOCELYN GECKER

As Karr wined and dined in style and chatted with the three U.S. officials escorting him, another bombshell emerged: Reports that Karr sought treatment at a Thai sex-change clinic...

...Just hours before Karr's departure, a doctor at a seedy but popular clinic in downtown Bangkok specializing in sex-change surgery said Karr had come in for treatment.

"He was one of my patients," Dr. Thep Vechavisit of the Pratunam Polyclinic said. He refused to provide further details. 
Another employee at the clinic, who spoke on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak to the media, said Karr had talked with the doctor about a sex-change operation. This could not be confirmed by other sources.

Bangkok, where Karr lived on and off for two years, is regarded as a major global center for sex change operations. The Pratunam clinic advertises sex-change surgery for $1,625 - a bargain compared to U.S. prices, where male-to-female reassignment surgery can cost tens of thousands of dollars.

Thep has received considerable publicity for his male-to-female operations and the clinic is one of the sponsors of an annual beauty pageant for transsexuals in the seaside resort of Pattaya.

Karr appears to have been shadowed by gender issues since his early years, according to excerpts of e-mails published in the Rocky Mountain News that Karr wrote to University of Colorado journalism professor Michael Tracey.

Karr said his father was a "strong influence but rarely around," and responded to Tracey's question about whether his "fascination with little girls - which clearly has a strong erotic component - is a way of going back."

"Maybe I am not going back but have simply stayed consistent," Karr responded. "My peer group has not changed since I was a little boy, and girls were the people I was with always. Referring to them as a peer group is somewhat incorrect, but might also be the very definition of what they continue to be in my life." [Read More] (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060820/D8JKD9U00.html)

It would not surprise me that this transvestic fetishist wanted SRS.  It seems correct that "Paraphilias run in groups."  I hope that they never use the word transsexual to describe that piece of crap! (I may get pilloried for this but what the heck this guy deserves it) He is an autogynephile.  Such is how the media should address him.  Not wanna be transsexual-peadophile.  He desreves much more than the "a" bomb I just dropped he deserves to be tossed feet first into a wood chipper!

It angers me that a little girl was killed.  Her mother blamed for it, untill she died of cancer.  Her father and brother suspected (i thought the bro did it).  I am angry at myself for blaming her Brother.  But I am especially angry that in the public mind transsexuals are about to be associated with another bad sterotype.  Not just the wierd fruitcake in a dress or the "chick with a dick".  At least they are harmless.  Now people will hear transsexual and think murderer!

I also agree that no good can come of this and I also suspect that the confession is false.

Oddly enough, he reminds me of a person that Joss and I had been friends with.  He was in our circle of friends, but had this kind of bad reputation for inquiring about how to get GHB and having kiddie porn on his computer.  However, we hadn't been witness to this firsthand and it seemed to be entirely hearsay, so we gave him the benefit of the doubt. 

Shortly after Jocelyn came out to all of our friends, he came to us and told us that he feels he also is transexual and asked us to help him dress up.  At first, we were more than happy to help, but then as Jocelyn talked to him more and more, she felt that he wasn't sincere. (I'm not sure what it was precisely, she would have to tell that part of the story).

He showed up at the karaoke bar in "half-drag" (his word, not mine) to guilt us into going (we were planning on staying home that night because he never told us he was planning to go out that night, but he called us from the bar to tell us this)  because he had the idea that none of our mutual friends would say anything to him with Jocelyn present (because she is completely accepted by our group and nobody would want to offend her in the process of telling Jim to get his own life)   After that, he left women's lingerie, sex toys, and a journal about his "female self" in plain view around the apartment for his roommates to find.  Joss was really upset because she felt that he had used her and the condition that tortures her everyday of her life in order to get attention from people.

I learned that prior to this, he had been going into great detail about having auditory hallucinations and the like after making friends with a schizophrenic.

It seems like some people crave attention above all else and will go to extraordinary means in order to obtain it.  Being that a sex-change would be quite shocking to most people they use it and it is most unfortunate that these types of people are frequently giving transexuals a bad name.  The same thing with the false confessions.  Look at all the attention that Karr guy has now.  It sounds false to me, and I am greatly saddened that the real killer is still out there somewhere while some nutjob is taking the fall for him simply to satisfy a abnormally great need for attention of any kind.

                                      (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi100.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm37%2Frianmarze%2Fjawdrop.gif&hash=3c2006869fbf27f484c7c0a3974d22ef5cce1fdd)


This is bad, very bad... :(
I'm just fed up with all this    &$%#$


tinkerbell
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi100.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm37%2Frianmarze%2F172x172avatar027_LTthumb.jpg&hash=c549ad55119ffc9939b042bc0060876351f7f4c0)

Unfortunately this is an example of the truism that reporters write to sell papers, not necessarily to tell the truth.  Transsexuals are "exotic" and "wierd" to most of our population so their inclusion into any news story makes it all the more compelling.

I also wonder about the motives of Dr. Thep Vechavisit, who outed Karr and then refused to say more.  It seems an obvious exploitation of the story for publicity.  I suggest that we pass the word to avoid his practice at all costs.  Send a message that we will not put up with being used for other's gain.  >:(

helen

Susan,

I read this story on the online version of USA Today and was quite upset, for obvious reasons.  I was glad to see you post about this, had you not, I certainly would have.  The use of inuendo and pretense to discredit the transsexual community really upsets me.  I hope this Dr loses a lot of business, since giving such information out is beyond unethical and irrisponsible.  Anyways, thanks for posting.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Quote from: Susan on August 20, 2006, 05:53:10 PM



  The Pratunam clinic advertises sex-change surgery for $1,625 - a bargain compared to U.S. prices, where male-to-female reassignment surgery can cost tens of thousands of dollars.

For $1,625.00 it would have served "HIM"right.

Leigh

As far as I know there isn't a correlation in literature between transsexualism and violence, but unfortunately reporters take advantage of situations like this to mislead those who already see us as threats......
......and talk about doctor-patient confidentiality; too bad he is not a US doctor; otherwise he would be in deep ....um....trouble....now.  


tinkerbell(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi100.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm37%2Frianmarze%2F172x172avatar027_LTthumb.jpg&hash=c549ad55119ffc9939b042bc0060876351f7f4c0)

................................................
........................................................
and ........................................................again

I cant put what I think and feel on this into words.... and If I could I certantly would be able to post them here.........

what ever happened to journolists publishing the newes rather than createing a circus.... and what right does this Dr have doing what hes done.... Isnt it against there code of ethics?  I hope he goes out of buisness as painfuly as possable....

It would be interesting to see what this alleged killer has to say about this whole sordid affair as the jury is out on this persons mental state.  I'm sure this whole issue is going to be a hot topic as soon as the tabloids get a hold of it, this could be very unpleasant to say the least. :(

As far as the Pratunam clinic is concerned I can only hope that they do go under and go under very quickly.  As soon as we can get the word out the better that the/a doctor and an unidentified staff member identified one of their clients/patients.  I would also hope that as soon as TS saw this revelation that they would drop this clinic like a hot potato as not only would they risk being outed by the clinic but what would stop the clinic from trying to blackmail a client with outing them.

Steph

I have to agree that his confession does not hold water.  I think he is one of those wachos that wants his 15 minutes of fame and is willing to say anything just to get it.  I doubt if the authorities can get a conviction based on circumstantial evidence.  Granted he is certainly no poster child.  He is also accused of sex crimes against children in Bangkok.  People like him are the kind I like see locked away in a room and then they throw away the room.   >:D

Shannon 

I hope that clinic does go out of business.  I don't care if it was that Doctor or one of his staff members who leaked this stuff to the press.  They should be held accountable.  The media always will put a slant on something that they do not understand and play it up that way no matter what.  They have always done this for years.  As a good example of their misrepresentation of hard facts, when there is a plane crash that makes world news, it amazes me just how many aviation experts the media gets to come out of the woodwork.  Their aviation experts know so much more than all the investigators at the crash site will ever know.  Yeah Right, sure it happened just like you said!!!!   Almost makes me want to laugh...NOT!!!  >:(  As for Mr. Karr, I don't see his confession holding water.  I think he is one of those wachos that will say and do anything just to get his 15 minutes of fame. 

Shannon

Quote from: Shannon on August 20, 2006, 08:51:06 PM
I hope that clinic does go out of business. 
Shannon

Oh it will go down, very deeply and quickly, for it is just a matter of time.  Like Steph says, we just have to get the word around (and enjoy my addition to the sentence >:D)


tinkerbell

Quote from: Shannon on August 20, 2006, 08:51:06 PM
I hope that clinic does go out of business.  I don't care if it was that Doctor or one of his staff members who leaked this stuff to the press.  They should be held accountable.  The media always will put a slant on something that they do not understand and play it up that way no matter what.  They have always done this for years.  As a good example of their misrepresentation of hard facts, when there is a plane crash that makes world news, it amazes me just how many aviation experts the media gets to come out of the woodwork.  Their aviation experts know so much more than all the investigators at the crash site will ever know.  Yeah Right, sure it happened just like you said!!!!   Almost makes me want to laugh...NOT!!!  >:(  As for Mr. Karr, I don't see his confession holding water.  I think he is one of those wachos that will say and do anything just to get his 15 minutes of fame. 

Shannon

We need to remember that the purpose of having a news program is to sell advertising.  It may sound cynical, but it is the absolute truth.  My soon to be ex-SO used to work at a television station in marketing/sales.  This is the position that many, if not most, station owners take.  If they can get a few more dollars by upping market share with a sensationalized story, so much the better!

Here in the U. S. many/most people prefer a good story over a straight presentation of the facts.  THat's why if you want to get the straight scoop on the US news, you listen to the BBC!

Chaunte

(Steph & Dennis, I don't know enough about the CBC to use them as an example, but I suspect that they deliver the facts without the political slant as well.)

Unfortunately the press, media will always go as low as it can to sell a story by sensationalism.

Regardless of whether the guy is guilty or not or just mentally unstable, the link to transsexualism with a "potential" child killer is only bad in my view.There is enough negative perception around as it stands already.

Buffy

Quote from: Buffy on August 20, 2006, 09:55:49 PM
Unfortunately the press, media will always go as low as it can to sell a story by sensationalism.

Regardless of whether the guy is guilty or not or just mentally unstable, the link to transsexualism with a "potential" child killer is only bad in my view.There is enough negative perception around as it stands already.

Buffy

Absolutely.

Chaunte

QuoteI hope that clinic does go out of business.  I don't care if it was that Doctor or one of his staff members who leaked this stuff to the press.  They should be held accountable.

the acountability will likely be done at the bank.

I would venture to say that his rates will go up. the Doctor has just recevd a great amount of free world wide advertisment.  You just can't buy such attention.   the world press will be banging on his door for any other tidbit the doctor might cough up. most of his prospective clients wont have any skeletons in the closet to worry about.


If  Karr is convicted will he become a high profile prisoner wanting to transion in prison?
that would not be good.

the press has yet to reach its low on this story.
Kate Alice   

Quote from: KateAlice on August 20, 2006, 10:10:36 PM
If  Karr is convicted will he become a high profile prisoner wanting to transion in prison?
that would not be good.

Kate Alice

If Karr is convicted he will be way too busy looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life to worry about transioning in prison.  The other inmates will be gunning for him wherever they get a chance.  Thats exactly what happened to Jeffery Dahlmer, a more infamous child killer. 

Shannon

[edit]Susan: Fixed quotes[/edit]

QuoteThe guy looks like a transsexual possibly even wearing a bra under his shirt and lipstick...

Wow...if these two things qualified someone to be transsexual, I'm sure there wouldn't be any non-transsexuals walking the streets.

More reading boys and girls.......

JonBenet (http://crimeblog.us/?p=38)



(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi100.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm37%2Frianmarze%2Fspider-toilet.gif&hash=19fdfce3b60aa4287439c8600f5bcae5d6029947)

I have read information in various places that the TS population are considered one of the most NON violent populations there are...I just for the life of me cannot remember where I have read this at different times.

I think it would be good to respond to the media and have it known that just because someone was insane and asking for SRS does not mean that they are TS and a part of the TS population, and that if this individual went out of the country, it may have been for more than a lower cost for surgery, but that the US doctors had refused him in all likeliness realizing that this person was sick and not TS.  As well those doctors would not be talking due to patient confidentuality.

Peace,

Taylor

Quote from: taylor on August 20, 2006, 10:50:38 PM
I think it would be good to respond to the media and have it known that just because someone was insane and asking for SRS does not mean that they are TS and a part of the TS population,
Peace,

Taylor

And also let's not forget that a criminal facing lethal injection, the gas chamber,  or the electric chair will try to do the impossible to disappear for good, changing his documentation, his appearance, and even his sex, and  needless to say this does not make them TS of any kind either.


tinkerbell(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi100.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm37%2Frianmarze%2Fflying-horse.gif&hash=86f2f9e2cbd70954105a6a30b88bdd400b769ca4)

You Know Tinkerbell that was exactly my first reaction to this story. I thought, well if you were going to try and get away with murder that involves a sex crime and DNA, that would be a pretty effective way to give it a shot.   Extreme true, but then we are talking about an insane dude!

Peace,

Taylor

I watched some of the cable coverage, but never heard about the fact that he was looking for SRS or some kind of treatment.

My first therapist used to do background checks on all new clients.  Anyone with a history of sexual violence or pedophilia would not make it through with her.  The big reason is that children usually trust women a bit quicker than they do men (the majority of her trans clients were M2F, do not ever remember meeting or her mentioning any F2Ms).


Posted at: August 21, 2006, 10:01:06 AM

---

Another news article (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209594,00.html).

The suspect in the killing of JonBenet Ramsey visited a clinic to have facial hair permanently removed in preparation for a sex-change operation, a doctor said Monday.

I also thought this was a false confession.  To me this fits the profile of someone who is very confused about what he is feeling in terms of his sex like denail.  He obviously wants to transition to be a female, if he is going through facial and planning SRS.  From the reading I have done this seems to be the denial phase of transitioning where you would rather go to jail and just become somebody's girlfriend so you can just convince yourself you had no choice but to submit instead of go through SRS at your own will, where you have the choice not to do it or make a decision on your life that you can't handle. 
I thought this prior to reading all the SRS news about him coming out of Thai.  I am a bit surprised a lot of people don't recognize this behavior.   

The facts seem to be he visited the clinic for facial laser treatment. Apparently he told them it was because he was going to transition. I am hoping he has no transgender feelings and the laser treatments were related to his facination with children. He has said the following,

Quote"Maybe I am not going back but have simply stayed consistent," Karr responded. "My peer group has not changed since I was a little boy, and girls were the people I was with always. Referring to them as a peer group is somewhat incorrect, but might also be the very definition of what they continue to be in my life."

He obviously couldn't go into the clinic and admit he wants to be with children as the reason for laser treatments. I am hoping this is it and he will be admitting he is not transgendered.

This is one reason I'm not so vocal about my unusual history.  There are people who know, but I don't generally tell anybody new that I meet at this point.  If they figure it out and ask me, I won't deny it because I'm not ashamed, but I'm not going around telling everyone nor making it obvious.  Stuff like this just scares me.

Melissa

I looked the so called Dr. up on Google. He is no doctor. He has had his license revolked and is running his clinic illegally. This is why it is so cheap. They should have done it to him, OK Sheila none of that.
Sheila

This morning it was reported on National news  that the family states it is impossible for him to have committed the crime because he was in fact with them in GA at the time of her death in CO. I believe that they are going to find that this guy was nowhere near the murder scene...what I have to ask myself is why they spent the money to bring him back without evidence. And if the family can refute it so quickly, why were they not asked well before???

They also interviewed a woman that he married when she was 13 ( 1985) and he was 18 or 19.  Her parents were on with her, and it was pretty sick to hear what this dude was like. She did not marry him for any other reason than the family was in deep fear of him.  This guy just gets sicker and sicker as more comes out.  It is my belief that the TS thing will not be the front part of this story, it has so many in's and outs to it. Well at least I sure hope not. Oh and yes the family did go to the authorities, ...I will refrain from commenting on that.

Peace

Taylor

  I can't help but think back to seeing this on the news.

  The newsman referred to Karr as a "pervert."

  It's a shame because now some of us that live in areas of open hostility towards the transgender community have more ammunition dumped into their laps of those who wish to play judge, jury and executioner.

  Even though this man has been found to have made a false confession the damage he has done is horrific towards many.

  It's a shame that a little girl was murdered and that her killer is loose but it is also a shame that now certain areas will be far more dangerous for those who had nothing to do with it but merely fall within "labeling."

  Tiffany

Quote"Many high-publicity crimes have these people coming out of the woodwork," said Elizabeth Loftus, director of the Center for Psychology and Law at the University of California-Irvine.

"These people"? Oh, very nice. That's us, I presume.

I don't know what to make of this whole thing.
Karr sounds a bit nuts, for sure.

Whoever did do it, send 'em down. The issue the press should focus on is the fact that this poor girl died, and her killer needs to be brought to justice.

   I ignored this story from the first because the media clowns always hype, extrapolate, and call on thier slimy experts when they want to masturbate for thier viewers.  When they determined that Karr was just lying, I honestly thought he may be some wierdo who lied in order to get a free trip home.

   If Taylor's information about Karr's first wife is correct and Karr was able to scare a teenage girl's family into allowing him to marry thier daughter, then I would think the man is definately not transsexual. I don't know every transsexual on earth (or even more than 1, personally), and, I'm sure there are a lot of us who suffer from serious mental illnesses, but, terrorizing a family in order to possess thier child doesn't sound right to me. The man should be female minded if he was a transsexual. I'm no doctor, but it seems to me that Karr was demonstrating some of the worst male traights. I mean no offence to the good men here on this site. It's just that the feminine mind tends to direct destructive energy inwards.

   I was also reminded of Micheal Jackson. When he had his first surgeries, it was thought that he was heading towards becoming a woman, but it turns out that he has some kind of obsessive condition that causes him to continue trying to perfect his appearance (this is my own assessment). I guess a person could theorize that Jackson was trying to keep himself young and innocent looking in order to easier connect with the children he likes to associate with. Maybe that was Karr's intent as someone else pointed out. He was driven toward some facial surgeries in order to help facilitate his relationships with children because he thinks he's thier peer.
  I'm not insinuating with the above paragraph that Micheal Jackson messes with children. I could never tell if he was guilty because of the way the lousy media muddied up the whole case.

  I hate most all of the media.

  I know this is a serious topic. I mean no offense to anyone anywhere. I apologize ahead of time if I incorrectly expressed one of my opinions.

Quote from: RebeccaFog on October 01, 2006, 07:37:39 PMIf Taylor's information about Karr's first wife is correct and Karr was able to scare a teenage girl's family into allowing him to marry thier daughter, then I would think the man is definately not transsexual.

the feminine mind tends to direct destructive energy inwards.

I agree; another tendency we have is to empathize with people and strongly resist doing mean things (although I believe that most guys have this too :) ).