Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey everybody,

I'm becoming more and more comfortable with my femininity in social situations.  I really had no idea I could get away with acting like a girl in so many subtle ways. 

For example, I've been assuming a female posture (shoulders back, spine straight), keeping my hands closer in to my body, using a more feminine tempo in my speech (Just think, "You go girl"), crossing my legs knee-over-knee, and being more expressive with my face.  (I've been getting away with it because I act like it's perfectly normal behavior...a socially competent man?)

Last night, I was talking with some girls at a party and I gradually began to mirror them (ie. copy their behavior patterns).  I suddenly became aware of some things that I simply wasn't aware of before:

1. Women tend to face each other when they talk.  I think the primary reason is so they can read each other's body language.  Men blast their voices at each other, but rarely face each other chest-to-chest.

2. Women often communicate kinesthetically, meaning they use touch.  Both men and women seem to be more comfortable with women (and gay men) touching them in socially appropriate ways (such as light touching with the hands).


Two Questions
1) What things like this have you noticed yourself doing as you've been socializing as female? 
2) What things have you noticed that women do socially that men don't?

One particular thing I notice a lot (and sometimes catch myself doing), is the palm splayed out on the chest move.  Generally happens when a girl is saying something that they want someone to believe is true but people might be doubtful of or that they want to be convincing about.  When they say whatever it is, they place their hand palm down on their chest just between neck and boobs, fingers splayed slightly.  They might hold their other hand up with palm outward at the same time.  It's also something you might see gay guys doing, but straight guys almost never do it.

(I use 'they' here generally, as I'm sure many of you/us do this all the time).

The one thing that really stands out to me that I always catch myself doing, is smiling as I pass another female (not saying I'm female but you get the picture). It's a female version of the nod.

• Play with the hair
• Bite a finger
• Grabbing things (like bus tubes and grocery bags with only the 3 fingers in the middle)
• Tilt your head when talking to another person
• Bite your lip
• Cross your hands behind you and pull them away

Well those are some of the things I do. Maybe I made a mistake somewhere. Please correct me if you think so.

I don't know, for me it helps to notice and pay attention to specific things.  I don't go trying to do those things intentionally, but I find that after I become aware of something specific I end up doing those same things unconsciously, more than I would before I was aware of them.

I thought it was women who crossed their legs but a lot of men here in Tasmania and Australia do it. My boyfriend even caught me crossing my legs and asked me why I was crossing my legs and I said "Ive seen you do it why cant  I?" He just responded with a "I dont."
In the seventies heaps of women I looked up to crossed their legs then in the 80's and nineties through out to the Noughties heaps of men now cross their legs... It was once considered a female trait now Im not so sure. Its still looks feminine and I wonder about guys who do it.

Quote from: Natalie3174 on March 01, 2009, 01:23:38 AM
I thought it was women who crossed their legs but a lot of men here in Tasmania and Australia do it. My boyfriend even caught me crossing my legs and asked me why I was crossing my legs and I said "Ive seen you do it why cant  I?" He just responded with a "I dont."
In the seventies heaps of women I looked up to crossed their legs then in the 80's and nineties through out to the Noughties heaps of men now cross their legs... It was once considered a female trait now Im not so sure. Its still looks feminine and I wonder about guys who do it.

Guys can cross their legs without being worried about people 'suspecting' anything about them, least in the US.  There's more a certain way of crossing legs that is more feminine, and probably has to do with wearing skirts/dresses at the time.

Also, are you in actual Tasmania?  Because that would be way cool.

I was mainly raised by women and didn't often think about the difference in behavior until people began commenting on the fact that I am rather fem.  :laugh: So then I started trying to act like a man. But now I've grown tired of acting and just be myself  :laugh: So I have a fem. persona....that's a good thing  :laugh:

Yes Im in Tasmania and I was brought up really fem too. With two sisters and a mother plus her 2 sisters and all their girls. There were heaps of us. 

Saw a girl playing with her iPhone today.  The way she used her hands to hold the phone was very girly...hard to describe.  Rather than just holding it with 4 finger and using her thumbs to touch the screen, she sort of extended all of her finger and cradled it in her hand, kind of the way you'd hold a baby chicken or other small animal.

Quote from: scarboroughfair on March 01, 2009, 01:05:09 AM
My best answer is try to be yourself.
I find that if one tries to hard, one stands out.

You may already be a natural woman, be comfortable as you said and the rest will fall inline.

It's one of those things, if you try too hard it detracts from you're natural persona. Comfort is key. :)

I really like integrating small stuff like this.  It makes me feel really girly, and I think the key is to 1) only pick up habits and mannerism you like, 2) do them in a style that is "you". 

I REALLY like facing the women I'm talking to...I'm just so much more comfortable relating to them that way, and it's helping me learn to read body language SO much better.

Also, women kind of take me under their wing when I do these things, treat me like one of the girls.  (I used to do this stuff and hang out with groups of girls when i was younger...it's more like relearning how to ride a bike). 

If I'm internally congruent (comfortable) with what I'm doing, women seem to be willing to accept me on an equal level.

You are so right Ashling, and this is the one thing that is as likely to "out" us as any. ;)

Part of the act of conversation and communication is the "body dance", where we commonly show understanding of what is being said by mimicking the other persons body language, ie leaning the same way, crossed arms, head on hand...etc..etc.

The level at which we mimic will also be dictated by our gender "training" in life, and as we learn more subtle ways to show our core gender, our instincts will evolve and we are very likely start to show confusing signals when not presenting. :o

The thing is, because it becomes instinct, there is not a lot we can do about it....

Hmmm.....This is going to be fun.... ;D

Chrissty

Quote from: Ashling on February 28, 2009, 08:02:28 PM
Two Questions,
1) What things like this have you noticed yourself doing as you've been socializing as female? 
2) What things have you noticed that women do socially that men don't?

Not much except generalities, which aren't univerisal or exclusive of either sex/gender. And it's not about being straight or gay, it's simply human nature and people's personality. I have a non-confrontational, nonthreatening personality and presentation, so people don't often use typical gender behaviors or expressions. If anything, the differences I see are in their language and topic of conversations, but again, it's not universal or exclusive.

Quote from: Chrissty on March 01, 2009, 05:50:45 AM

The thing is, because it becomes instinct, there is not a lot we can do about it....

Julie has an interesting post in another forum about "clearing the hard drive", which is a metaphor for how transitioning frees your mind from all the "guy" crap that doesn't need to be there.

Your point here just goes right along with what people are talking about in that thread; the moment these things become more instinctual and intuitive, you don't have to worry about it anymore!!!  You can just go on about your normal life. 

The point you're making is really hard to just "get" at an intuitive level (I still can't totally grasp what it will feel like).  I think at some point during transition, we all wake up without any junk in our heads finally feel that our minds are free.

I think the most important thing to remember as far as movement, gesture and such go is that it absolutely must be genuine. I don't know how many times I've been put off by well-meaning transgenders who are obviously imitating feminine movements and mannerisms. I think that has to be the surest way to get yourself "outed" and to alienate people. You're better off using your more masculine mannerisms, if they are natural to you.

My approach is to, instead of trying to mimic individual movements or something, focus on certain women who I see as feminine mentors-- people I know or see on TV, etc. Pick someone and try to get into her head. Imagine her attitude about things, as well as the way she moves and speaks. Adapt what you like about her into you own style and make it yours. If you must practice something, do it in private until it's normal for you. You shouldn't have to think about how you're moving in public. That's the sure sign of a phony and nobody likes a phony.

Lyric

Quote from: Ashling on March 01, 2009, 01:32:34 PM
Your point here just goes right along with what people are talking about in that thread; the moment these things become more instinctual and intuitive, you don't have to worry about it anymore!!!  You can just go on about your normal life. 

Yep..unless you are not FT and your are still trying to keep a family together and make a few bucks as a guy.... :icon_wink:

Quote from: Lyric on March 01, 2009, 02:10:32 PM
Imagine her attitude about things, as well as the way she moves and speaks.

Attitude is the key.  If you think people will be creeped out when you want to touch them during a conversation, they probably will be.  It's about going from "acting like" somebody who is okay with touching others, to becoming a person who regularly touches others and it's not a big deal b/c you're just a touchy person who others are always comfortable with. 

After reading some responses to this thread, I'm realizing how much subtle "girl" stuff I already do (I play with my hair a lot!).  But since I'm giving off a "male" attitude, nobody thinks twice about it.

Quote from: Chrissty on March 01, 2009, 02:36:14 PM
Yep..unless you are not FT and your are still trying to keep a family together and make a few bucks as a guy.... :icon_wink:

That is difficult, it's easy to go too far or make a mistake at times.

While conversing women are more animated. They make gestures with their hands and speech is not monotone. Also they seem to listen rather than just hear. Guys are montone speakers. Hand gestures are sometimes used while talking about some contact sport. Most men don't listen. They wait for their chance to speak.

Women watch other women - and dress for other women and themselves - men are incidental

A well dressed T-woman passes best - probably because we carry ourselves with pride

It seems a natal woman will defend a T-woman she considers her equal in style and grace

Prepub teen girls are ALWAYS the ones to notice - they can see things we don't realize we are doing differently as they are students of femininity

Quote from: Elizabeth K on March 03, 2009, 01:04:36 PM

Prepub teen girls are ALWAYS the ones to notice - they can see things we don't realize we are doing differently as they are students of femininity

I feel like a prepubescent teen right now :P

Yes I know the feeling -13 years old and with a credit card!

Posture is important and many overlook it.

Quote from: Elizabeth K on March 03, 2009, 10:19:45 PM
Yes I know the feeling -13 years old and with a credit card!

Use cash for shopping sprees, it keeps you in check.  :)

Quote from: Lyric on March 01, 2009, 02:10:32 PM
I think the most important thing to remember as far as movement, gesture and such go is that it absolutely must be genuine. I don't know how many times I've been put off by well-meaning transgenders who are obviously imitating feminine movements and mannerisms. I think that has to be the surest way to get yourself "outed" and to alienate people. You're better off using your more masculine mannerisms, if they are natural to you.

My approach is to, instead of trying to mimic individual movements or something, focus on certain women who I see as feminine mentors-- people I know or see on TV, etc. Pick someone and try to get into her head. Imagine her attitude about things, as well as the way she moves and speaks. Adapt what you like about her into you own style and make it yours. If you must practice something, do it in private until it's normal for you. You shouldn't have to think about how you're moving in public. That's the sure sign of a phony and nobody likes a phony.

Lyric

That's the same way people invoke spirits/beings.  Fascinating.

If someone says they can invoke spirits or "beings" they're either pulling your leg or a brick shy. A child learns a lot about how to be a grown up by "playing" a grownup-- which means their, to an extent, becoming someone different for a little while. I just think you have much better results if you immerse yourself into a more whole-self approach to adapting femininity than detailing individual traits.

- listen (I mean REALLY listen!)
- empathize
- cry with a friend
- smile a genuine smile
- treat others with respect and kindness
- go out of their way to do something nice without a reason
- put others first

The full list is in 12 volumes for the discount price of $2400. LOL!

Quote from: Northern Jane on March 05, 2009, 12:53:28 PM
- listen (I mean REALLY listen!)
- empathize
- cry with a friend
- smile a genuine smile
- treat others with respect and kindness
- go out of their way to do something nice without a reason
- put others first

The full list is in 12 volumes for the discount price of $2400. LOL!

Does that mean if I do all the above as a guy, I am actually doomed to be woman?

...Er..can I haggle to get a set for $2399 ?

:icon_hug:

Chrissty

Quote from: Northern Jane on March 05, 2009, 12:53:28 PM
- listen (I mean REALLY listen!)
- empathize
- cry with a friend
- smile a genuine smile
- treat others with respect and kindness
- go out of their way to do something nice without a reason
- put others first

The full list is in 12 volumes for the discount price of $2400. LOL!

I have a library card Jane, does that count :)

Do you take food stamps or belly button lint?

I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a copy today.  Or is the an e-book available.

Janet

I'll just get a copy of the series on a credit card, go home, scan it, then return it for full credit, and as soon as the charges are reversed, put it on bit torrent.  Then its free to everyone.

Quote from: Lyric on March 05, 2009, 10:38:02 AM
If someone says they can invoke spirits or "beings" they're either pulling your leg or a brick shy. A child learns a lot about how to be a grown up by "playing" a grownup-- which means their, to an extent, becoming someone different for a little while. I just think you have much better results if you immerse yourself into a more whole-self approach to adapting femininity than detailing individual traits.

Most magic is related to children's games and behaviors.  We're kind of at our most magical as children.