Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Oh god...

At first he was kind of struck dumb and said that he could never find me attractive if I started to change, and that he had to leave the house and clear his head.  Then he called from the road to ask what I was thinking about doing.  Then he called again to tell me that he wanted me to stay and he would try to be with me as long as he could and support me while I change.  Now he called to ask why I can't just "put myself in a state of mind where I could deal with it" and wants to know if he hasn't been doing enough for me and said he was too old to find someone else and wants to have a family and why couldn't I compromise.

I don't know what to tell him.  I don't really want the hetero married-with-kids life.  I told him that, he can't understand it.  I mean, I told him a long time ago that I didn't want him to write me into a normal female role in our household and that's pretty much exactly what he did.  I told him that the longer I try to go like this the worse it's gonna be when I can't stand it anymore and pull out.  I told him that every day my body just feels wrong and alien.  He wanted to know why having people see me as a guy was so important.  I told him it wasn't that important, and the big thing was about feeling comfortable in my own body and seeing the reflection in the mirror that I want to see...

Man, 10 minutes ago he was supportive and amazing and now he wants me to shackle down and bear his children in emotional agony.  I know it's a really rough thing to react to and really confusing for him, and thankfully he's been trained in understanding GID though his years as a resident advisor in college, and he knew all along that I had it, but I don't know what else to say to him.

God, this is scary.  I just want to know whether I need to pack or not right now, I'm too confused to feel anything...

We talked about it some more.  He wants me to stay and keep living as a girl so that his parents don't disown him, and wait for them to die before I decide to transition.  He told me he expects them to die within 15 years.

Is it just me or does that seem really morbid?

He said that he would want to live with me even if I transitioned, even though he's sure he wouldn't find me attractive anymore.  But to do that I could not transition for 15 years while he waits for everyone he'd be too embarassed to have find out to die, and he would then want to move somewhere where no one would know us.  Like Paraguay.  And then neither of us would ever have sex again.

I mean, it's really sweet that he's trying to figure out a way, but I don't want to be old when I do this and I don't want to sit there waiting for his parents to die.  I want to go home to my family and friends who will (as far as I know from the ones I've told) support me and love me no matter what I do.

*sigh* I dunno.  I know he loves me, but I don't think either of us can possibly be happy with what he's asking now.  But who knows, it's so early maybe tomorrow he'll be booting me out the door.

It hurts. Yes. :'(
When the one you love.... they always say what about me.... the family..... friends..... neibors.
That is when I just want to scream. "I don't give a damn. I have to be me."
Doesn't matter if someone know all about GID unless they are they don't understand.
Give him some time to adjust. He is in shock and can't get his brain around it yet. I believe his 15 years is just away of keeping you from changing. If you said yes I doubt you could keep that promise and if you did you would be miserable.
Just being the really you in your mind does'nt work satisfy very long. 
Hang in there and keep posting. I do hurt for you. :'(
Love,
Jillieann

I don't think I would say yes to that.  I'm giving him some time and space to think about everything, but I think deep down, the male part of me is not attracted to him...  I mean, I always kind of felt that, and I can't see him loving me as a guy.  I'd want to be with someone who did.  I've always been attracted to gay or bi men only, really, and in his case I figured it was okay for him to be straight because I was a girl and what did it matter?  I was tired of trying to be with gay guys who just couldn't see past my body, I guess...

I kind of knew telling him and trying to do this would be the end for us.  He's a part of the female prison I feel trapped in...  I put him in that position by being with him even though I knew he was absolutely straight, I know this mess is totally my fault, and I know I'm hurting him and I feel horrible.

I'm so sorry you have to go through that Nonie.  When I first started transitioning, people wanted me to wait until the kids were grown up.  Well, I tried waiting to see where things would go and after a suicide attempt (I'm not recommending this) because it seemed that transition was never going to happen, people started to realize the seriousness of the situation.  At this point I'm living fulltime as female and it's turned out to be far different than others thought.  The kids have been great and I feel like I am actually a better parent towards them as a result of transition.

It sounds like you kind of already know what your future hold for you.  As far as I'm concerned, for the most part, we are still the same people on the inside and what our bodies look like shouldn't matter so much to others.  They will change with time regardless of what we do to them.  It sounds like it may come down to some sort of ultimatim on his part that leaves you with poor choices.  He doesn't want you transitioning and it sounds like he is being manipulative.  Hypothetically, let's just say you did wait 15 years and his parents passed away.  I bet he would come up with another excuse.  Maybe something like "I've seen you as female for the past 15 years and I'll never be able to see you as male."  So there you would be 15 years later not transitioned and still stuck with some bad choices.

I would say go for it and if he can't stay with you because you don't match what he wants to see, then maybe he isn't the right person.  I hope this helps, it's just my thoughts on the matter.

Melissa

Yeah, Melissa, I do feel like he's being kind of manipulative with that.  There's no way it would get better as time went on, because the more entrenched it got the worse it would be.  He and I are both trying to because at least well known in our own artistic circles...  One thing he was worried about was that as he tries to get his music out there, if people find out about him living with a transsexual he thought it would overshadow his music so much that no one would listen to it.  But I don't want to publish comics as a known female for years and then sudenly switch, as that would make all the people who are skeptical about a girl being interested in comics go "Aha, I KNEW something was up!  Now I can remain sexist!"...  Plus I think that 15 years down the line the revelation of my TSism would be worse than if it were just known for so long it was normal, so he would fight it even more.

I don't think I would care if I was well-known and it was also public that I was a TS.  I think it could be quite liberating, really, to feel like I had nothing to hide like that.  I've always toyed with the idea of doing an autobiographical comic anyway, so I always figured I would reveal my GID publicly one day.  And I haven't been published nationally yet - the one title that's about to be, there's still time for me to have them use my initials.

I don't want to do this without support from my closest friends, too, and I moved away *without* their support to be with him.  None of my friends like him because they've already seen me acting less and less like myself all along.  I didn't want to listen to them before because I think I was using this relationship to try to avoid facing my true feelings.  Now I just want to go home to the people who will love me for me even if I change...

Quote from: nonie on August 27, 2006, 12:52:57 AM
Oh god...

At first he was kind of struck dumb and said that he could never find me attractive if I started to change, and that he had to leave the house and clear his head.  Then he called from the road to ask what I was thinking about doing.  Then he called again to tell me that he wanted me to stay and he would try to be with me as long as he could and support me while I change.  Now he called to ask why I can't just "put myself in a state of mind where I could deal with it" and wants to know if he hasn't been doing enough for me and said he was too old to find someone else and wants to have a family and why couldn't I compromise.

I don't know what to tell him.  I don't really want the hetero married-with-kids life.  I told him that, he can't understand it.  I mean, I told him a long time ago that I didn't want him to write me into a normal female role in our household and that's pretty much exactly what he did.  I told him that the longer I try to go like this the worse it's gonna be when I can't stand it anymore and pull out.  I told him that every day my body just feels wrong and alien.  He wanted to know why having people see me as a guy was so important.  I told him it wasn't that important, and the big thing was about feeling comfortable in my own body and seeing the reflection in the mirror that I want to see...

Man, 10 minutes ago he was supportive and amazing and now he wants me to shackle down and bear his children in emotional agony.  I know it's a really rough thing to react to and really confusing for him, and thankfully he's been trained in understanding GID though his years as a resident advisor in college, and he knew all along that I had it, but I don't know what else to say to him.

God, this is scary.  I just want to know whether I need to pack or not right now, I'm too confused to feel anything...

Nonie,

You're right.  THis is scary.  THis is confusing.  This is extraordinarily painful!

I understand.  I am in the middle of this myself.  I wish I could be there to give you a hug.

You are not alone.

All of us here at Susans are with you.  Lord knows that the men and women here were absolutely wonderful in my time of need.  We are here for you, too!

Stay talking with people - people you trust.  People you can confide in.

Don't be alone.  I can not stress this enough.

Is there someone you can stay with for a few days?  Maybe an old friend or family member you haven't seen in a while?  Now is the time to make that road trip you have been putting off.

I am going to be very honest with you.  It will get worse before it gets better. 
BUT IT WILL GET BETTER!!!!

Please believe me when I say this.  It WILL get better!!!

And once you survive this, you can survive just about anything Life can throw at you.

You are a good person.

Chaunte

Thanks so much, Chaunte...

I do have a lot of friends who are being very supportive.  I've come out to my Big Three (three bestest friends ever) about it and they were ALL 100% supportive and happy for me and told me they will do anything I ask of them to help.  My friend who moved to Florida recently told me she will come get me as soon as I say the word and I can stay with her...

I do want to talk to him again tonight.  He was mostly silent this morning and I told him that I thought it was going to be over if I do it (and I'm more sure every time I think about it).  I can't really see being with him as a guy because he won't find me attractive and I don't think I'll find *him* attractive anymore either.  So I guess that's it.

I feel pretty relieved really...  I'm really sad feeling so final about it, but elated knowing it's even possible to have the body I want and feel I need.  I don't feel abandoned or anything, I think it's kind of mutual that we can't be together if I do this, and we both know it's nobody's fault...

Annnd just now my brother called because I was supposed to go into town to see him and Justin wnted to drive alone so I stayed home, and I kind of had to tell him to explain why I didn't come.  I JUST CAME OUT TO MY BIG BROTHER.  And he was cool with it.  He said he didn't care what I wore or looked like, that it doesn't change who I am :)  And he said he would follow me wherever I choose to go now to support me and keep haters from beating me up, too :)  He doesn't like Ohio either anyway.

I guess I'm leaving tomorrow...  He doesn't want to see me or our dog again...

Nonie,
     YOU will be ok if this is what YOU want. To transition. It is obvious he only wants you as a woman. Guess thats not going to work. You will find someone else Nonie, who will love you for you.

                                                    Marco

^*hug* sometimes such is for the best.
I am sorry Nonie...

Remember, we are here if you need/want to talk. (the chat is quite good for that)

I am sorry to hear that Nonie.

(hugs)

Alice

Hey Nonie,

I just emailed you on the health fitness stuff, and now I read this,... I feel for you but I am so glad that you have a full circle of support!! That is absolutely gonna help you through all of this.  I don't think you need to be told that now is a lot better than later...so just know inside that your doing what takes a lot of strength, and your by far not a lone! Keep writing here the support is here too!

Peace,

Taylor

Nonie,

It will be hard, and you will grieve.  But you are number one in this; it is Your life.

We're here for you, and you will be a winner.

Hugz

Robyn

Quote from: nonie on August 27, 2006, 09:39:17 PM
I guess I'm leaving tomorrow...  He doesn't want to see me or our dog again...

Nonie,

I'm sorry that evrything has come to this.  I know exactly how you feel.  I was told to leave on 6/28 of this year.

Before you go, talk with an attorney!  Find out your rights and don't hand over the house keys!  You don't have to bring up any transgender issues yet.  Simply say that the two of you are at an impasse and you want to know your rights.

If the attorney gives you advice, follow it to the letter!  (Dennis, I think Nonie could use your help here!)

Get copies of bank statements (including transactions over the past couple months), any insurance that you have and all assets.  Ask for copies of the credit card bills and of the mortgage.  Does he have a retirement or investment account?  Get records of these as well.

Go to the store and get several disposable cameras.  Photograph everything!  Furnature.  Clothing you aren't bringing with you yet.  The platter you received from Aunt Beulah that's been in the family for generations.  Everything.

I know that its hard thinking of these things right now.  However, I want you toprotect yourself.

Take a deep breath...  Hold it...  Let it out slowly...

You can do this.  Even if you can't see us, we're standing right beside you.

Chaunte

Justin came home.  He wants me to stay and wants to help me through this now.  He told his mom and I guess she, instead of flipping the hell out like we thought his parents would, talked him into not making me leave so abruptly, and he thought about it more and realized that he loves me for my personality no matter what, and wants to stay for as long as we can manage, no matter what the consequences are...  So we went back home, and we had kind of a house meeting to tell our roommates what was going on, and I'd told my brother earlier so he already knew, but we talked as a group for like an hour...  Kind of really awkward and kind of really great though.  I mean, I thought one roommate was going to freak out because he's pretty homophobic sometimes, but they let me explain everything at length, asked a lot of questions, and accepted it.  I told them to look up everything they can find online to feel more like they understand the condition...  Which they are doing right now I guess.  When we all said goodnight they all hugged me individually and told me they supported me no matter what, one by one!

I am SO glad I have been on this forum, learning and accumulating information I could give them and analogies that I could try to give them about it.  The people I know from back home, well, our school was extremely liberal and we had an active, nationally famous, completely student-run Diversity Program with a Homophobia group, and a separate Gay-Straight Alliance, which all of my friends were in, so most of the people from back home are incredibly well educated about it already.  But the people here in Ohio...  This is a very conservative Christian place in comparison, and I was very worried that I would face some kind of backlash or massive lack of understanding.  It means soooo much to have this out completely in my house, and to have been able to reiterate over and over that I was open to their questions and that they shouldn't be afraid to ask anything, and have them all individually hug me and assure me that they love me for me and will support me!  Just...  It's so amazing and I never expected it.  I was so unsurprised when I was asked to leave immediately...  That I felt prepared to handle.  This, this is so unbelievable.  One roommate is out of town, so when he comes back I guess I'll have to explain it again, but I feel so reassured I don't think I will be half as scared.

I guess I always felt like I couldn't be me and be with Justin, and he took a while to sort out how he felt but he thinks we can work things out and stay together, and it's unbelievable how much he's about to sacrifice for me...  I want to try!  I do love him and I think finally seeing how serious this is and how much pain I've been in, he really started to see why a lot of things between us were disintegrating and what we can try to do to work things out.

I dunno.  He's willing to do anything for me at this point, something I never expected, and I just feel kind of awed and amazed.  I guess he really does value me and love me unconditionally!  Wow...  And I do appreciate how hard it is for him to come to this and do what he's doing...

Man, it's been a crazy few days...  I am shaking so badly right now.

Thank you all so much for helping me sort this through and for your thoughts and well wishes!  I seriously feel even more loved than before right now.  What a cathartic day.  Wow.

Wow, just got caught up on this. What a roller coaster ride you've been on. Things seem to be stabilizing for you, and that's good.

One thing to be aware of is that your partner's feelings about this might change. Chaunte indicated that you might need legal advice. Here is mine: don't get married. Not yet anyway. Wait until you have decided that you are going to transition and your appearance, voice and presentation have changed sufficiently. If you are still together at that time, that's great.

Partners, unfortunately, sometimes find that although they are supportive, they can't handle the changes. Complicating your lives by getting married or having children when you know that things are in this much flux could put you in a situation that is much more difficult to extricate yourself from. Also, sometimes a partner will unconsciously try and strengthen the relationship by suggesting something like getting married, buying a house, or having children. If the relationship has weaknesses, these will only expose those weaknesses.

Also, he could, again unconsciously, hold a hope that if you had some of the trappings of traditional heterosexual female life that you might not transition.

I am glad things are doing better now and that your friends are supportive.

Dennis

Congratulation, I'm happy for you.  I would definitely recommend following Dennis' advice.  If you do have to part ways in the near future, a marriage will only complicate things.  In divorce, many times the transsexual gets the short end of the stick.

Melissa

Holy smokes! Like Dennis, I just got caught up on this one, too!

I really hope that this whole thing works out in your favor.  I know that your SO is grieving the loss of the person he thought was you, but you still shouldn't compromise your real self,  your happiness, and your future because you're trying to keep him happy.  You have to do for you, because nobody else will...don't forget that! 

Please don't blame this whole thing on yourself, you've carried a huge burden for so long and you know what?  He might say that he didn't sign up for this, but you really didn't sign up for either? Nobody can choose the circumstances, or consequences, of their birth. You just have work with what materials you're given to make your masterpiece. 

Chin up, bro!

Wow--

I, too just found and finished this thread.

Everything I wanted to say to you has already been said, except

:icon_hug:

and

:icon_hug:

and

:icon_hug:

and

:icon_hug:

I wish you the best, and please keep your wits about you (don't let emotion cloud your judgement.)

Karen

I'm happy for you Nonie. It's a releif to share your burden and to be accepted is an added bonus.
You are brave and freed now. Go forward and always remember what just happened.
:eusa_dance: :eusa_dance:
I'm celebrating with you,
:D
Jillieann

I'm really happy for you that this is working out so well!  I can relate to the stress of coming out to people, I am in the middle of "Project: Coming Out" too and the fears are very real.  It's interesting that the anticipated fears have so far been very much worse than the reality of things.

But, my wife always reminds me, because I've been coming out to people who live out of town, "Yeah, they're OK about it 'cause they won't have to see you everyday."  So I guess telling your roomies and having them be supportive is even better!

I love your name choice, btw!

{{{HUGZZZ}}}
helen

Thanks, everyone!  Yeah, I'm being pretty cautious...  Justin seems to sort of hope that all I will need is the therapy.

Quote from: Mikko on August 27, 2006, 12:52:57 AM
Now he called to ask why I can't just "put myself in a state of mind where I could deal with it"

Yup, I received the same response from my wife. Hence the "The ultimate self-acceptance?" thread I started. She's insisting that perhaps I was meant to be born this way, as I am, and should realize that I don't need to mold myself into what society expects physically in order to be myself. Stop trying to become what I already am, that sorta thing.

And heck, philosophically I agree with her. And IF this entre GID thing is just some sort of childhood wish snowballed into an obsession, she may be right. But it doesn't appear to be so.

Quotesaid he was too old to find someone else and wants to have a family and why couldn't I compromise.

Yup! Got that too from her. Which I think it what finally broke me after talking about this for hours with her: to realize that not only would I not give her what she wanted, but that I've prevented her from EVER getting it through some cruel "bait-and-switch" manuever, as she put it. The GUILT from all this is... just too much.

However, I'm encouraged (and happy for you!) to see how the tone of his response evolved over time :)

Mikko,

    What do you mean maybe only need therapy? That is what Justin hopes for but what about you? That will only be the beginning if indeed you want to transition. It seems to me that Justin hopes that you will never take it that far. That through therapy you will change your mind and just decide to stay a girl, the girl that he loves. Just be carful, and be sure he knows what your intentions are.

                                                     Marco

What does the route that Mikko takes matter, as long as he ends up happy?  If he goes to therapy and transition is right for him, that's what will happen.

Melissa

True. Mikko has expressed an interest in it leading to transition, so I was just saying that it seems that maybe Justin may hope that therapy will be "ALL" Mikko needs to be happy ,and maybe even change his mind about transitioning, and just remain the "girl" Justin loves. Thats all.
                                         Marco

Just being philosophical - don't mind me. :)

Melissa

Quote from: Marco on August 29, 2006, 03:43:30 PM
True. Mikko has expressed an interest in it leading to transition, so I was just saying that it seems that maybe Justin may hope that therapy will be "ALL" Mikko needs to be happy ,and maybe even change his mind about transitioning, and just remain the "girl" Justin loves. Thats all.
                                         Marco

That's exactly what I mean by saying that, that I'm making sure I watch him.  He sounded like he got it and was going to be okay with it eventually, but then I overheard him talking to his mom about it, saying that I was going to see if therapy was all I needed.  But he could have been telling her that to make her feel more comfortable too.  He seems to accept the full deal when *I* talk to him about it.

Also, just wanted to say it feels awesome having you guys call me a "he" :D  Not that you haven't all over the boards anyway, it's still just new enough to be a thrill and nobody in real life does yet, and I don't expect them to very soon, so I just wanted to say it was cool to hear it.  And thank you all for being supportive through this crazy time :)

Quote from: Mikko on August 29, 2006, 05:34:13 PM
Also, just wanted to say it feels awesome having you guys call me a "he" :D  Not that you haven't all over the boards anyway, it's still just new enough to be a thrill and nobody in real life does yet, and I don't expect them to very soon, so I just wanted to say it was cool to hear it.  And thank you all for being supportive through this crazy time :)

Anything to help good sir. :)  I remember when I first joined and people started calling me she, it felt so good.  I think we all realize this and do our best to use proper pronouns.  It's kind of a tradition, even with the crossdressers, although it does make it a bit difficult when somebody is presenting as female (born male) and they choose male for gender, which makes the male icon show up.  I haven't seen this the other way around.

Melissa

Mikko,
   You say Justin is supportive, and I believe he is for yuor sake, but what about later, when you begin to change? Will he want to be  with you when you are physically male?
                   
                                     Marco       

QuoteJustin is supportive, and I believe he is for yuor sake, but what about later

How can either of them know that right now?

From what I have read on these boards, to have any chance at keeping your S.O. in your life, you can't exceed their ability to cope with the changes.  And even then there are no assurances. The other option is to cut loose and go at your own pace.  Both are perfectly valid, it just depends on what you want.

Jessica

I too have come late to this thread.  If I've followed this properly, you have just come out to your SO who knows you and loves you as a woman.  He first rejected then considered the idea of staying.  There is no way this will be resolved in one week or two and it may take much longer.  It took my partner 18 months to become fully comfortable with the idea of staying together.  It was a bumpy ride that we survived by virtue of our deep friendship and at this point, that is what remains.  We are friends who live together.  Until he see changes and especially so after you start HRT (if you start HRT), that's when you'll begin to have some idea whether you can work this out and stay together.  I hope I don't sound negative but it could be awhile this drama settles down in your life.  Relationships are the scariest and often the most heartbreaking part of transition.  Good luck.

Dawn

Yeah, I don't know.  I don't really think he's going to be cool with it when I start changing.  He was already uncomfortable teaching me proper form for lifting weights and seeing me in "boy's clothes" (which wasn't even bad, I was just wearing girl's "boyfriend cut" jeans pulled down a little lower and a couple men's t-shirts, still with girl hair and glasses and not even bound).  He said he didn't want to come home from work to find me "in a secondhand suit with short hair and a Charlie Chaplin moustache drawn on."  It seemed *really* not cool to me.

So far I've also come out to all my friends and I'm sending out letters to my mom and dad, so they're about to find out too...  Besides Justin, the worst I've gotten from anyone is "Well, it'll be hard to get used to seeing you change, but I support you."

So.  That's my story about that.  I might have to leave anyway if he can't accept me doing this when he actually sees it happening, and I really don't think I'll be able to pace it slowly unless forced - I am sooo desperate to see it happen I can barely think about anything else.

I mean, I have 4 roommates besides him, and the whole house with the exception of him wants to go to the TS support group meeting with me.  I can see how it would be more difficult for him to face this, but right now I don't feel that optimistic about us.

I already *know* he has not a gay cell in his entire body.  I don't think it's very easy to just make an exception to a sexual orientation.

I can tell you that he's just tolerating it.  It sounds like he is playing along and hoping you'll "snap out of it".  My parents are the same way and still do not accept nor support me.  They tolerated me working for them for a while and then told me to find another job as soon as they realized I wasn't "changing my path".  :-\

Melissa

*Sigh*  He's so confusing.  Yesterday he had a talk with me about how I am ungrateful for all he does for me and he can't believe I thought he would freak out when I told him I wanted to transition, that I don't have enough faith in him.  Wha?  I always feel like my head is spinning when we have "serious talk."  He was mad because I was ready to leave when he told me to.  But he was mad at me at the time for not having left already.  Argh.  I always joked with my friends that he acts like the girl and I act like the guy in our relationship, I guess him being emotionally unpredictable and making no sense just reinforces that...  At least now I can tell myself to be a man about it, hehe.  After comforting him for a while and actually not feeling weird about taking the strong role like that, he calmed down and said that as my punishment we have to take a vacation to the ocean together.  So I guess we're okay :)

mikko:
hi, life is crazy now ...it will get better.
Your words in the posts you wrote remind me of my divorce and subsequent break ups, mine and that of friends.

  Mikko you sound like a person with strong qualities, and many men hate to let what "is theirs " go somewhere else, so that factor accounts for some of the craziness.  He will say anything so you stay and then he will mold you back.  I myself did it when i was in my boy mode back in the 70's and all my male friends were also.

  What do you draw? Anime? I agree with you about your proffesional concerns.
I paint and do poetry and as much as fans like the art they sure assign us a role ...fvoom! done  :) 

   Divorces are not pretty no matter what the reason, neither are break ups between non-heterosexuals, is my experience.
   You know you want what is best for you and it is not him, he begins to see that and that rejection is what he fights the most,  Am saying this not to play the Psycologist/ Counselor just to let you know that i can relate to your situation and from this point i can say focus on your future and the vision you have created for your success.  Obstacles come in many forms and relationships.  But to execute beyond expectation essential to a career in the Visual arts arena you need to be commited and focus to it.

  I am sure that you still love certain things about him, that is good. I still love some things about my ex-wife 15 years later. But it was the decision that gave me my life back and in return gave back to my kids more wholesome life.
  Stay safe, sheial18