Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Wait, what? Isn't this supposed to be ...how do I know I am a transsexual??

Let's step back a minute and go back a bit...maybe a few years from when I first joined.

If I could count the times I've come and gone from Susan's I'd need to take off my shoes and socks because I'd certainly use all my fingers up in the count before even getting 1/2 way. I've been banned, fought with members, helped others, cried with a few and laughed with a few. I have posted some idiotic scary stuff, normal stuff, and some brilliant stuff as well.

I've shunned, ignored, and hurt  many members here (Kristi and Nero to name a couple) and managed to stay friends with a few more. In other words, I'm a bitch to most and really nice to others.

I went through an entire transition....only it was not mine. It was Kate's ...then she left. Now who's the bitch? The hours I spent.... I get a taste of my own medicine. I guess she gets the last laugh.

So long Tink.....sigh.

None of that makes me a transsexual. The fact I hang out at Susan's doesn't either.

From the age of 6, I have bounced in and out of a fog bank that was femininity. I was born with male parts. Male genes, male this, male that...raised as a boy.

In and out, back and forth, and undecided. I have been on and off HRT at least 5 times. My chest bounces when I jump and I look like some weird freaky clone that is not done baking in one of those action thriller movies.

I would have told you as I stuck a needle into my ass and pushed the plunger down injecting estrogen I am not TS. As I swallowed the pills, applied the patches, put on the sports bra to conceal my breasts, refused to take off my shoes in public because my nails were painted,  wore long sleeve shirts to hide my girly hairless arms, I would have argued and fought to my last breath I was not one of "those" people. There is no way in hell I'm a TS.

Boy was I wrong. I wonder how many times I have purged in life....lets see....4x's. I mean major purges. You know where you get rid of every girly thing, join the Army and be a man? Or get married? How about get a motorcycle and ride like an insane a-hole proving how macho you are? Buy guns, shoot deer, drink liquor and go out looking for chicks and pretend you are having guy fun.

Then there are other types of purges....like where I stop taking HRT. Ya know..go for a few months, see the therapist get the prescriptions refilled, take them...then stop because well ...it just isn't going to work. I'm too fat, too ugly, too manly, too tall, too big.

Excuse after excuse. That didn't make me TS either. Being diagnosed by three different Gender Doctors and seeing a Gyno and an endocrinologist and getting prescribed HRT didn't either. Because even after all of those things I still doubted I was.

I doubted I was even though I know as a child I would sneak girl clothes into my room and wear them at night. I would shoplift at the local supermarket and steal makeup at 10 years of age. I moved out and would make excuses to buy lingerie and always say it was for my girlfriend. I've been through more shoes than most GG's I know. Really cute ones too.... :(

None of that made me a TS either.

I'm on so much estrogen right now an Elephant would have boobs. I'm torn and ripped inside between the easy path of staying male and doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I have drugs prescribed to me that lower my T levels yet I refuse to take them for whatever reason.

My closet is full of girls clothes and shoes. I have a purse and makeup. My dresser has a drawer dedicated to panties and sports bras. I have prescriptions for HRT. I have a gyno. I have had 2 previous GID therapists confirm my Transsexuality. My current one agrees. My spouse will only concur there is no other diagnosis that will fit me. I've been like this since I was 6. I've always wanted to be the girl I felt I was inside. I love having boobs. I love my shots.

But I'm not a TS.


I'm tired of running. I give up. I need help. I am TS.

There is nowhere for me to escape anymore. I have to face it and I don't want to do it alone.

Hi there Lori,

This sounds like something I would have written a year ago before I started HRT. I am so glad you are finally finding your path Lori.

:icon_hug:

Alice

^*Hug*

Wow, I remember you two.....



HI  ;D

Self discovery is so very important for us all.  Now that you are beginning to accept, if not have completely accepted your transsexualism, what do you want to do about it?  Does it affect your life goals?  What in your life will you change as a result of this discovery?  I'm not advocating transition (obviously it wasn't my choice), but I AM advocating action - careful, planned, definitive action.  Let this time of self acceptance motivate you to action so that you don't go back into denial.

Obviously you need ways to cope and people to talk openly with, and that is what we are here for.

Quote from: interalia on April 21, 2009, 09:54:37 PM
Self discovery is so very important for us all.  Now that you are beginning to accept, if not have completely accepted your transsexualism, what do you want to do about it?  Does it affect your life goals?  What in your life will you change as a result of this discovery?  I'm not advocating transition (obviously it wasn't my choice), but I AM advocating action - careful, planned, definitive action.  Let this time of self acceptance motivate you to action so that you don't go back into denial.

Obviously you need ways to cope and people to talk openly with, and that is what we are here for.

Perhaps you could discuss not transitioning? I don't see any other way. It certainly is not a choice. I'd love to hear of a choice that did not involve that. I've tried everything but....there is no other way.

Quote from: Lori on April 21, 2009, 09:58:04 PM
Perhaps you could discuss not transitioning? I don't see any other way. It certainly is not a choice. I'd love to hear of a choice that did not involve that. I've tried everything but....there is no other way.

Transition might be the right answer for you in the end.  It will be something you have to determine for yourself of course.  As for me, I have chosen not to transition. 

I think it important to make mention that I do not believe GID, transsexualism, etc is a choice, but I do believe we can have choices with regard to how we cope.  For some, transition is necessary to prevent worse consequences, for others, like myself, we seek ways to cope without complete transition.

Here are some of my specific coping techniques.  (And I apologize to any members who have seen these before, but for convenience sake I will repost them here.)

1) I have found out what specific triggers there are for my GID, and using learning-behavior techniques, have taught myself to no longer associate those stimuli with GID thoughts, but with more neutral ones.

2) I have done my best to focus on the things in my life that I have, rather than the things in my life I don't have.

3) I have learned that depression and other negative mental states provoke my GID and the GID persists long after the depressive stimulus is removed. Thus, I do my best to control and prevent depression and drama in my life.

4) I have learned never, never, never to pretend my GID doesn't exist. Doing so, even in periods where it is not bothering me as much, always stimulates the return of symptoms and they are normally far worse.

5) This goes along with #4, but I don't try to be anything I'm not. I stopped playing "roles" for other people. The roles invariably caused me difficulty as I often tried to appear as "masculine" as I could muster.

6) I am open with others about my condition. Being open with others allows for greater authenticity in the relationship and less tendency to want to meet their expectations of me as a male.

7) I have several very close friends (including my wife) with whom I can speak to at any time when I start to feel the symptoms come on. They all know me and my struggles and are there when needed - fortunately I'm relying on them less and less. :)

8) I think of all that I'd lose if I were to transition again and the pain it would bring about.

9) I present myself more androgynously in that I don't try to dress stereotypically for my sex - this prevents me from going into a role that is not conducive with my inner self.

I hope this helps.  I would be willing to talk to you more should you choose.  This is a big time in your life, so I look forward to seeing your progress, whatever you decide to do.

For me, transition IS the answer.  And the WPATH SOC, says the same thing.  I fought for 55 years, and one can not go on fighting.  If you are fight your GID then you need to understand that you will transition sometime.

And I trying all of the same things that Interalia, and I will tell you it does not work.  I was in mental pain for all that time.  IF you think it will work, try it but IMHO you will be back.

Janet

Quote from: Janet Lynn on April 21, 2009, 10:39:04 PM
For me, transition IS the answer.  And the WPATH SOC, says the same thing.  I fought for 55 years, and one can not go on fighting.  If you are fight your GID then you need to understand that you will transition sometime.

And I trying all of the same things that Interalia, and I will tell you it does not work.  I was in mental pain for all that time.  IF you think it will work, try it but IMHO you will be back.

Janet

I'm sorry that the techniques did not work for you, Janet, and that you continued to deal with overwhelming pain - but to date the techniques have worked for me and I anticipate I will learn more as time goes on.  I guess Lori will have to make the decision for herself.  If she wants to transition, there are PLENTY of resources available to her, and plenty of people here to advocate and validate that choice.  Perhaps it is for the best for Lori, but only she knows.  I only present an alternative - it is not easy (neither is transition), but for some, it is worth it.

Quote from: interalia on April 21, 2009, 11:08:04 PM
I'm sorry that the techniques did not work for you, Janet, and that you continued to deal with overwhelming pain - but to date the techniques have worked for me and I anticipate I will learn more as time goes on.  I guess Lori will have to make the decision for herself.  If she wants to transition, there are PLENTY of resources available to her, and plenty of people here to advocate and validate that choice.  Perhaps it is for the best for Lori, but only she knows.  I only present an alternative - it is not easy (neither is transition), but for some, it is worth it.

Blessings on you as you walk the path you feel is for you. :)

I spent ten years following that road too, out of love for family, and I did okay for awhile. Long enough to be there for my kids through most of their childhoods, and long enough to grow strong enough to survive the final transformation. I struggled two years probably past the point where I should have started transition, but in the end I got to where I needed to be.

We are all different, we all have a different path, and only we and we alone can choose the path that we follow -- no one else has the right or ability to make that decision for us.

Meanwhile, I think it's important to be supportive of each other regardless. We need each other, whatever road we happen to be on. Glad to see that support here. :)

The thing is, Interalia, I am not in mental pain or anguish anymore.  Transition has been a godsend for me.  I could not be happier.  But to each their own.  As it is said "If you find something that can work for you other than transition ,Do it."

I really hope you are happy with your choice, for it is yours and yours alone to make.  As for me, I was never meant to be male.

Blessed Be Interalia.  Blessed Be.
Janet

Quote from: Janet Lynn on April 21, 2009, 11:25:48 PM
The thing is, Interalia, I am not in mental pain or anguish anymore.  Transition has been a godsend for me.  I could not be happier.  But to each their own.  As it is said "If you find something that can work for you other than transition ,Do it."

I really hope you are happy with your choice, for it is yours and yours alone to make.  As for me, I was never meant to be male.

Blessed Be Interalia.  Blessed Be.
Janet

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were still in pain, only that the pain of your GID persisted despite trying to cope with it without transition - which resulted in your transition.  I'm glad you have found your peace now.

Lori, I kind of know where you're coming from. For so many years I was like... Yeah, I want to be a woman, I should have been born a woman... but I'm not one of those transsexual freaks! Uh-uh! No way! Not me! This sort of thing ain't my bag, baby!

Yeah right. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Although I didn't wear women's clothing (with a few exceptions) and didn't go anywhere near hormones until I'd acknowledged I was trans. Coming out to myself is what started the ball rolling. For all that I can recognize your thought process in myself, the sequence of events went differently. To go to those lengths while still in denial... well... it goes to show how terrifyingly strong can be the power of denial. Jeez.

Quote from: interalia on April 21, 2009, 10:11:40 PM
1) I have found out what specific triggers there are for my GID, and using learning-behavior techniques, have taught myself to no longer associate those stimuli with GID thoughts, but with more neutral ones.

I had two specific triggers for GID: 1. Existing. 2. Breathing.

Quote2) I have done my best to focus on the things in my life that I have, rather than the things in my life I don't have.

I focused on what I had all right: RAGING dysphoria.

Quote3) I have learned that depression and other negative mental states provoke my GID and the GID persists long after the depressive stimulus is removed. Thus, I do my best to control and prevent depression and drama in my life.

I learned that GID is what caused my bleepin' depression and drama. So I struck at the root of the problem.

Quote4) I have learned never, never, never to pretend my GID doesn't exist. Doing so, even in periods where it is not bothering me as much, always stimulates the return of symptoms and they are normally far worse.

Hey, don't knock it, I spent several decades pretending it didn't exist. Until one day I just couldn't any more. Then it was all over for me.

Quote5) This goes along with #4, but I don't try to be anything I'm not. I stopped playing "roles" for other people. The roles invariably caused me difficulty as I often tried to appear as "masculine" as I could muster.

I never bothered trying to appear masculine. So people thought I was weird. At least I stopped getting beaten up for it when I graduated from high school.

Quote6) I am open with others about my condition. Being open with others allows for greater authenticity in the relationship and less tendency to want to meet their expectations of me as a male.

Heh, I tried that, and for years people kept giving me "helpful" advice to become more masculine. Which invariably drove me into deep depression.

Quote7) I have several very close friends (including my wife) with whom I can speak to at any time when I start to feel the symptoms come on. They all know me and my struggles and are there when needed - fortunately I'm relying on them less and less. :)

I had no friends until I came out... then I made all my friends as a woman. Now I have tons of friends. As a woman.

Quote8) I think of all that I'd lose if I were to transition again and the pain it would bring about.

I could think of nothing but how much I would gain by transitioning. Like my life itself. And the relief from pain it would bring me. As it was, I had nothing to lose but suicidal depression.

Quote9) I present myself more androgynously in that I don't try to dress stereotypically for my sex - this prevents me from going into a role that is not conducive with my inner self.

Tried androgyny-- found that it is not conducive with my inner self (whatever you meant by that phrase). I don't give a toss for stereotypes, or what people judge to be stereotypes-- so it turned out that being a feminine woman is my inner self.

Thanks so much for your advice, interalia. It makes a reliable guide for my life-- by taking the contrary of everything you said. :) Have a nice day.

Quote from: Hypatia on April 21, 2009, 11:33:38 PM
Thanks so much for your advice, interalia. It makes a reliable guide for my life-- by taking the contrary of everything you said. :) Have a nice day.

Making a difference, one person at a time! ;)

Dear Lori,

Welcome back.

The key is, just maybe, not being TS but being willing to be one's self in every way that's possible. If that means transitioning, then so be it. If it means not transitioning then so be that.

Every transition is always part of a larger journey: growing into who one is, moment by moment, day by day.

Nichole

You can hide from yourself but you can never escape.

Quote from: Hypatia on April 21, 2009, 11:33:38 PM
Lori, I kind of know where you're coming from. For so many years I was like... Yeah, I want to be a woman, I should have been born a woman... but I'm not one of those transsexual freaks! Uh-uh! No way! Not me! This sort of thing ain't my bag, baby!

Yeah right. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Although I didn't wear women's clothing (with a few exceptions) and didn't go anywhere near hormones until I'd acknowledged I was trans. Coming out to myself is what started the ball rolling. For all that I can recognize your thought process in myself, the sequence of events went differently. To go to those lengths while still in denial... well... it goes to show how terrifyingly strong can be the power of denial. Jeez.

I had two specific triggers for GID: 1. Existing. 2. Breathing.

I focused on what I had all right: RAGING dysphoria.

I learned that GID is what caused my bleepin' depression and drama. So I struck at the root of the problem.

Hey, don't knock it, I spent several decades pretending it didn't exist. Until one day I just couldn't any more. Then it was all over for me.

I never bothered trying to appear masculine. So people thought I was weird. At least I stopped getting beaten up for it when I graduated from high school.

Heh, I tried that, and for years people kept giving me "helpful" advice to become more masculine. Which invariably drove me into deep depression.

I had no friends until I came out... then I made all my friends as a woman. Now I have tons of friends. As a woman.

I could think of nothing but how much I would gain by transitioning. Like my life itself. And the relief from pain it would bring me. As it was, I had nothing to lose but suicidal depression.

Tried androgyny-- found that it is not conducive with my inner self (whatever you meant by that phrase). I don't give a toss for stereotypes, or what people judge to be stereotypes-- so it turned out that being a feminine woman is my inner self.

Thanks so much for your advice, interalia. It makes a reliable guide for my life-- by taking the contrary of everything you said. :) Have a nice day.

Have to say I really relate to all what you are saying apart maybe for the androgyny part. I like being externally androgynous for some reason - maybe it's comfortable, maybe it's denial, maybe it's a compromise, maybe it's just me. Who knows, and at the end of the day it really doesn't matter :)

We put too much weight into a word.
We shush people for using some words because they're "bad" for a set of almost arbitrary reasons.
We avoid words in the name of being politically correct because, somehow, if we use words that haven't been used in as negative a manner we're somehow less bigoted, less aggressive, less cruel, regardless of what goes on behind the words.

But what is "really" so bad about the word "Transsexual"?

And does it matter whether the word applies or not as long as you're true to yourself?

It is always easy to keep one's head down and move with the herd. Close one's eyes and allow others to make the choices for us. But sometimes we need to raise our heads and open our eyes before we realize that we've been led our whole lives and have nothing to show for it.
The choice right now isn't whether or not to transition, that can come later. The choice right now is whether or not you'll take responsibility for your own actions. Whether or not you'll hold your head up high and be "you", and not just another brick in the wall.

*hugs* Whatever path you walk, whatever you do, whether transitioning is a part of it or not, make sure it is you who chooses it, you who does it, and you who lives your life.

Quote from: Miniar on April 22, 2009, 08:07:19 AM
But what is "really" so bad about the word "Transsexual"?

It has *SEX* in the middle of it, and that stands out like a flare. You have to understand the peculiar American mentality: To Americans, *SEX* is naughty, *SEX* is taboo, and it follows that *SEX* is always fascinating and irrestistible. Unlike in Europe where sex is just another part of life, for Americans *SEX* always distracts and gives people a chance to go tsk-tsk and point fingers at anyone who's tagged with the scarlet letters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Letter) of *S*E*X*!

Quote from: Hypatia on April 22, 2009, 11:00:31 AM
It has *SEX* in the middle of it, and that stands out like a flare. You have to understand the peculiar American mentality: To Americans, *SEX* is naughty, *SEX* is taboo, and it follows that *SEX* is always fascinating and irrestistible. Unlike in Europe where sex is just another part of life, for Americans *SEX* always distracts and gives people a chance to go tsk-tsk and point fingers at anyone who's tagged with the scarlet letters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Letter) of *S*E*X*!

True, but if one thinks about it Transexual is perhaps a more correct term than Transgender, that is assuming we take gender as a constant... N'est-ce pas? :)

Oh, I agree with you. Transsexual (note: double -ss- not single -s-!) is the term I use to talk about my medical history.

Quote from: imaz on April 22, 2009, 11:05:30 AM
True, but if one thinks about it Transexual is perhaps a more correct term than Transgender, that is assuming we take gender as a constant... N'est-ce pas? :)

For me transsexual makes everso much more sense than transgender. And that has nothing to do with Virginia Prince (may she be living her years out in peace.)

My problem was never with "gender" per se. A lot of the time prior to beginning transition I was being exiled for my behaviors (too gay, too effeminate) or trying very hard to discharge those into the air around me where they'd leave me alone.

My disagreements with myself were always of the visible sexual dissonance I found with secondary sexual characteristics.

I cannot help the way the USA cultural milieu has been poisoned from day one by Puritans, Anabaptists, Reformed evangelicals and their by-blows and offspring. The damned religious here manage to skew practically all discussions and all science toward the ridiculous anyhow with their sheer priggery and fear that "god will be displeased."

Who cares, maybe a bit of purposeful displeasure given to that white-haired, old plug-in-the-sky wouldn't be half-bad. (Oops, wrong rant! :) )

Anyhow, for me the disturbance was always about my sex not my gender. What I transitioned wasn't a gender presentation so much (which was always more natural for me than studied any way) but my sexual presentation.

And no, none of that has anything to do with the prurience of someone else's mind. :)

Nichole

I think that we only add to the stigma of transsexual as a word if we shy away from using it..

And I do agree that ts is a more correct term, at least to me, than trans-gender as I'm not entirely sure I believe in "gender".

I actually like the word transsexual, only if you really say the word 'ssexual' in it like with power, and a deep way like Marilyn Monroe would say it.

...
I hate the word ->-bleeped-<- it sounds like a disease to me.

Today I didn't feel like a transsexual, but I imagine how I would be as a girl in math class. But all day I thought life would be more easier and simpler just as a gay guy, and it be a lot better than a transsexual in the family....

Eh...I don't know. Maybe it's the passing part that bothers me the most... or something...

---

and my career of choice, since I really need to pass if I want this career. It's okay to be a guy, and okay to be a girl, but to look like both in this career is like crazy talk. (I don't think I can pass all the way, with every inch of my skin passing)......

Would it matter if I was just a gay guy? I will still find love, still have my dream career, and most likely my family will never know about it so it's out of mind. And my immediate family will just have to accept.

Transsexual is a different issue though.....

Quote from: Janet Lynn on April 21, 2009, 10:39:04 PM
I fought for 55 years, and one can not go on fighting.  If you are fight your GID then you need to understand that you will transition sometime.

Also, while you may think you are fighting your GID, what you are really fighting is yourself. That's a no-win task: either you are stronger than you and pummel yourself to the ground, or you are weaker than yourself, and get run over. Either way you'll end up miserable. The only way to win is by accepting yourself -- all of you.

But while you are doing that, try to remember to smile every now and then, whenever you can manage it. It helps too.

Good luck,

  Nfr

Quote from: interalia on April 21, 2009, 10:11:40 PM

1) I have found out what specific triggers there are for my GID, and using learning-behavior techniques, have taught myself to no longer associate those stimuli with GID thoughts, but with more neutral ones.

Seriously I think mine are physical...ya know some type of weird genetic screw up. I get all weird even in my dreams. I can't even sleep without being female. Not sure how you combat that.

Quote
2) I have done my best to focus on the things in my life that I have, rather than the things in my life I don't have.

I dwell constantly on what I do have. You would have to be nuts to give it all up because you are TS and had to face it. Why do you think its taken 40 years of fighting?

Quote3) I have learned that depression and other negative mental states provoke my GID and the GID persists long after the depressive stimulus is removed. Thus, I do my best to control and prevent depression and drama in my life.

GID causes my depression.

Quote4) I have learned never, never, never to pretend my GID doesn't exist. Doing so, even in periods where it is not bothering me as much, always stimulates the return of symptoms and they are normally far worse.

I know it exists..I just chose not to deal with it because just about every transitioned person I've talked to flat said if you can fight it or not transition then by god do what you have to do to not transition. Its the last resort.

Quote5) This goes along with #4, but I don't try to be anything I'm not. I stopped playing "roles" for other people. The roles invariably caused me difficulty as I often tried to appear as "masculine" as I could muster.

Look at my sig. Always be a first-rate version of yourself, instead of a second-rate version of somebody else.  ~Judy Garland

Quote6) I am open with others about my condition. Being open with others allows for greater authenticity in the relationship and less tendency to want to meet their expectations of me as a male.

Most people I know are uneducated and think TS are some weird sicko sex cult. Or I'm gay. I stopped telling people about it. It makes them uncomfortable. You run out of people to deal with on a daily basis. Texas is not exactly the go to state for sex change ya know?

Quote7) I have several very close friends (including my wife) with whom I can speak to at any time when I start to feel the symptoms come on. They all know me and my struggles and are there when needed - fortunately I'm relying on them less and less. :)

After 9 years my wife is tired of talking about....seriously.

Quote8) I think of all that I'd lose if I were to transition again and the pain it would bring about.

I'm a little fuzzy on that statement. If the idea is to be yourself then why worry about the pain it causes others. What about the pain it is causing me. Plus I thought you chose to not transition.....

Quote9) I present myself more androgynously in that I don't try to dress stereotypically for my sex - this prevents me from going into a role that is not conducive with my inner self.

Yeah, that works like pouring a thimble full of water on a forest fire on somebody like me.

QuoteI hope this helps.  I would be willing to talk to you more should you choose.  This is a big time in your life, so I look forward to seeing your progress, whatever you decide to do.

With 34 years of fighting this I'm tired.

Have you heard of drawing a line on the table and numbering it from 1-20 ? You start on 10. 1 is female and 20 is male. Not all females land on 1. Not all males land on 20.
Not all females will be in the 1-10 range. And not all males will be in the 10-20 range.

So if 1 was TS and 20 was as Non TS as you could get and we started at 10....where would you land. Where would I?

We are not the same and that is ok. There is no cut and dry pattern that works for everybody. I'm happy you don't have to transition. You should be elated and I am actually a little jealous. I tell myself ..if only I could be this or that. My wife says...WHY CAN"T YOU JUST BE GAY??

It would be so much easier and cheaper.

Try taking a college course, or read a book or two about, Decision Analysis.

It sounds to me like the weight of the decision is what is bothering you, more than going down the path any of the choices would lead to.

Keep with the natural plumbing, and accept that life, making the best life you can with your wife.

or

Finish what you started, and proceed down the HRT transition path, even FFS if desired.

or

Be as feminine as you want to be, as much and as often as your family will tolerate.

etc., etc.

But my point is that once you make a decision, after careful consideration of all of the pro's and con's of all of the alternatives, then GO with that decision!  Either put out to sea and drop anchor, or run the ship up onto the beach, but the longer you keep foundering in the storm the closer you get to smashing up against the rocks.

It is the uncertainty of your life that has you going in cirlces.  Pick a direction, and live peacefully down that path, putting all the doubts behind you.


(just my 2 cents)

Quote from: Nichole on April 22, 2009, 11:41:18 AM
For me transsexual makes everso much more sense than transgender. And that has nothing to do with Virginia Prince (may she be living her years out in peace.)

My problem was never with "gender" per se. A lot of the time prior to beginning transition I was being exiled for my behaviors (too gay, too effeminate) or trying very hard to discharge those into the air around me where they'd leave me alone.

My disagreements with myself were always of the visible sexual dissonance I found with secondary sexual characteristics.

I cannot help the way the USA cultural milieu has been poisoned from day one by Puritans, Anabaptists, Reformed evangelicals and their by-blows and offspring. The damned religious here manage to skew practically all discussions and all science toward the ridiculous anyhow with their sheer priggery and fear that "god will be displeased."

Who cares, maybe a bit of purposeful displeasure given to that white-haired, old plug-in-the-sky wouldn't be half-bad. (Oops, wrong rant! :) )

Anyhow, for me the disturbance was always about my sex not my gender. What I transitioned wasn't a gender presentation so much (which was always more natural for me than studied any way) but my sexual presentation.

And no, none of that has anything to do with the prurience of someone else's mind. :)

Nichole

lol I think I love you  :laugh: I'm just learning this bewildering terminology stuff is such a hot topic, and sometimes truly afraid I might inadvertently say the wrong thing and be swiftly put in my place. But I think I like the word "transsexual" better than "transgender", too. I mean, I'm female and that has never changed, so my gender isn't really "trans" anything.

Welcome back, honey.  Looks like it's time for another pendulum swing for you.  This has to be killing you.  If all this is stemming from your wondering about transition, try it.  In the words of Led Zeppelin, there's still time to change the road you're on. 

Take care, sweetie, and be good to yourself.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: Nichole on April 22, 2009, 12:55:07 AM
Dear Lori,

Welcome back.

The key is, just maybe, not being TS but being willing to be one's self in every way that's possible. If that means transitioning, then so be it. If it means not transitioning then so be that.

Every transition is always part of a larger journey: growing into who one is, moment by moment, day by day.

Nichole

Thank you.

I think the key is doing it without worrying about transition. Just keep taking the stuff and let happen what happens. Like a stealth transition.....You don't plan on it. Just don't stop taking the HRT and eventually it will all just work out.  :icon_crazy:

---

Post Merge: April 22, 2009, 08:16:28 PM

---

Quote from: Kristi on April 22, 2009, 05:37:26 PM
Welcome back, honey.  Looks like it's time for another pendulum swing for you.  This has to be killing you.  If all this is stemming from your wondering about transition, try it.  In the words of Led Zeppelin, there's still time to change the road you're on. 

Take care, sweetie, and be good to yourself.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Wow we have a lot to chat about lol.

Quote from: Lori on April 22, 2009, 07:53:35 PM
Thank you.

I think the key is doing it without worrying about transition. Just keep taking the stuff and let happen what happens. Like a stealth transition.....You don't plan on it. Just don't stop taking the HRT and eventually it will all just work out.  :icon_crazy:

You're welcome! :icon_hug:

Yes! Just let your life "sneak-up" on ya, darlin'. :) It's not rocket science, luv. Don't over-think it. :) Just allow yourself to be who you are. :) By whatever means necessary! :laugh:

Nichole

I'm not transsexual. I'm not transgendered. (And I'm definitely not "transgender" -- that usage hurts my ears on grammatical grounds. :P) I'm just me. Both of those words have so much baggage that I strongly avoid using either of them -- especially "transsexual" -- around people who aren't. I would probably be a good thing if I got over that.

But I am transgendered in the sense that my sense of my own gender doesn't align with how the vast majority of people I have ever met see me.

I am transsexual in that I have always been troubled by the physical sexual characteristics which alienated me from others of my gender.

Quote from: Lori on April 21, 2009, 08:36:32 PM
But I'm not a TS.

~huggles~ To me you're a woman.  I'll never understand some people's obsession with being known as "a transsexual" but to each his own.  Medically, I suffer from transsexualism; it's been a cross I've had to bear since I could reason but like I told you, after my GRS  I'm following the same path as some peeps here, going "poof", going into oblivion & never calling myself trans anything anymore.

I always forget what i was going to say when i click the reply button....

I live with the mental pain, t anxiety and the denial to varying degrees, ive tried to transition 3 times now and found it heaven with the estrogen, 4th time lucky!! (don't ask :))
just saying really, that i know its mega hard....

BUT IT IS SOOOOOOOOOOO WORTH IT IN THE END.....

peace ;-)

Quote from: jixe on April 26, 2009, 09:36:50 AMBUT IT IS SOOOOOOOOOOO WORTH IT IN THE END.....

peace ;-)

Yes. It truly is. Bottom line.

And that indeed means peace. Peace within the individual, no longer at war with herself-- hopefully, in the aggregate, contributing to peace on earth.

Hi lori,

Yes I've been there too.  Thought I would never ever pass.  Coming to grips with oneself is not always easy.

BTW just because you transition does not mean you have to sell the motorcycle ;-)

Welcome back

Beni

Quote from: jixe on April 26, 2009, 09:36:50 AM
I always forget what i was going to say when i click the reply button....

I live with the mental pain, t anxiety and the denial to varying degrees, ive tried to transition 3 times now and found it heaven with the estrogen, 4th time lucky!! (don't ask :))
just saying really, that i know its mega hard....

BUT IT IS SOOOOOOOOOOO WORTH IT IN THE END.....

peace ;-)

4 x's is a charm then....

I'm going to play dumb and use plausible deniability.I've heard both sides of the coin. It will be soo worth it/why did I wait so long and if you can stave it off and never transition, that is what you must do. Don't transition if there is any other choice.

I will admit....estrogen is the most wonderful feeling in the world. I love it....soft skin..no hair on my body. I must not be well. I'm not supposed to like this stuff. I'm a DAD damnit.... :icon_help:

Quote from: Lori on April 28, 2009, 06:47:29 PM
I'm a DAD damnit.... :icon_help:

But before you were "a Dad dammit" you were Lori, or whatever name was attached to the you you are.

So, some Dads apparently love soft skin and hairless bodies for themselves and they feel glorious when they are filling their bodies with estrogen.

You were right. You're not a transsexual. You're a woman who needs to transsex in order to find the next stage of her developmental growth. Or, that's what it sounds like to me. I've heard all of that before, Lore. In my own head. :)

Nichole

Quote from: Beni on April 28, 2009, 04:58:55 PM
Hi lori,

Yes I've been there too.  Thought I would never ever pass.  Coming to grips with oneself is not always easy.

BTW just because you transition does not mean you have to sell the motorcycle ;-)

Welcome back

Beni

Thanks..you look great~~

---

Post Merge: April 28, 2009, 09:03:41 PM

---

Quote from: Nichole on April 28, 2009, 08:47:54 PM
But before you were "a Dad dammit" you were Lori, or whatever name was attached to the you you are.

So, some Dads apparently love soft skin and hairless bodies for themselves and they feel glorious when they are filling their bodies with estrogen.

You were right. You're not a transsexual. You're a woman who needs to transsex in order to find the next stage of her developmental growth. Or, that's what it sounds like to me. I've heard all of that before, Lore. In my own head. :)

Nichole

That is one way to look at it. I've always been Lori insideh. Just too scared to be her in life.

Quote from: Lori on April 28, 2009, 06:47:29 PM
I'm a DAD damnit.... :icon_help:

You are correct, and that's makes this decision so important.  I apologize if what I say is in any way offensive, but please understand, I wish the best for you and your family.  In the pain you are in, it will be tempting, if it is not already, to think only of the pain, to think mostly of yourself and doing whatever it takes to make it go away.  There will be some here that will tell you that only you matter, and anyone who disagrees with you does not.  I am here to say the opposite.

You are not your own.  You belong to your children and (presumably) your wife.  As you make the choices you make, please consider them - transition will cause them unavoidable pain.  You did not choose to have GID, but you do choose what you do with it and how you affect the people around you.  If the choice is truly between transition or die, as it is for many, justifying that choosing to transition rather than being a dead does NOT a noble act of fatherhood make (as some make it out to be) - it takes more than choosing to live to be a noble father.  Please do not leave their potential pain out of your equation no matter how hard they take it if you tell them, no matter how tempting it is to focus on your pain.

Best of luck to you, I don't envy your position.  Many make transition about not having a choice, so I will put it this way.  You didn't choose to have GID; they didn't choose to have a father/husband who transitioned.  I pray for happiness for you all.

I imagine this post will be incredibly unpopular, and I'm sorry to any who it offends.  I just hate when I see posts that encourage people to focus only on themselves and not think anyone else matters, so I decided to speak before they did in favor of humility, meekness, selflessness, and charity.

Quote from: interalia on April 28, 2009, 09:47:53 PM

I imagine this post will be incredibly unpopular, and I'm sorry to any who it offends.  I just hate when I see posts that encourage people to focus only on themselves and not think anyone else matters, so I decided to speak before they did in favor of humility, meekness, selflessness, and charity.

I think the only things really offensive about it are 1) your sense that you will somehow be alone and that others of us are going to tell her to forget her family and go all out for herself. and 2) Your apparent thought that she or anyone else will inevitably make their children and spouses "avoid" hurt by choosing your path.

I'm not seeing where one is necessarily more appropriate than the other, your plea or the possible pleas others might make to be self-involved to the exclusion of all else.

A transition when one has children and a spouse is a HUGE deal and no, simply considering one's self isn't a very good idea at all. But, then again, neither is ONLY considering all of the others to the exclusion of one's self.

Carefully doing what's necessary to balance interest, understanding, compassion, care for others, healing for one's self and caution when it's required are things that are possible.

What i perceived as your either/or choice is a false dichotomy, I think; just as surely as that other either/or is a false dichotomy.

So, no, I don't take a lot of exception to your post at all. It seems like just another instance of one of us wanting someone else to do what "I have done."

That in your circumstance not transitioning seemed best to you and you followed that conviction definitely proved out for you. Following my conviction, maintaining the care, respect and positive regard of all of my children and the ex was something that proved out for me.

The caveat is well-made, but I think that Lori also has people here who are willing to allow her to make her decisions while still supporting her and helping her as she feels are necessary.

The less loaded "moral" language we speak, on any side, the better she's able to make her own morality speak for her, her own inclinations, drives and actions be the standard she walks with. Not my standard or your standard.

But, that's just me. It's always personal and personal means I don't have a dog in her fight, except the dog of companionship, if she wants it.

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on April 28, 2009, 10:05:55 PM
I think the only things really offensive about it are 1) your sense that you will somehow be alone and that others of us are going to tell her to forget her family and go all out for herself. and 2) Your apparent thought that she or anyone else will inevitably make their children and spouses "avoid" hurt by choosing your path.

Wait wait wait. I didn't read any more of your post yet, because if it is related to these two points let me correct you.  1)  There will be others to tell her to focus only on herself - not you, not many other I respect here, but there will be some and it will be tempting to hear.  2)  I told her she had a choice at the beginning.  When she didn't express interest, I didn't press it.  My path is not what I'm advocating now, I'm just saying, no matter WHAT she does, please don't forget her family - no matter what anyone says.

Ok, I'll read the rest.

Interalia,
I have a question kind of unrelated. What gender pronoun do you prefer? I saw that you are not transitioning so do you prefer male pronouns? Andro pronouns? I'm not sure but can you let me know? Sincerely, Meghan

Quote from: interalia on April 28, 2009, 10:09:09 PM
Wait wait wait. I didn't read any more of your post yet, because if it is related to these two points let me correct you.  1)  There will be others to tell her to focus only on herself - not you, not many other I respect here, but there will be some and it will be tempting to hear.  2)  I told her she had a choice at the beginning.  When she didn't express interest, I didn't press it.  My path is not what I'm advocating now, I'm just saying, no matter WHAT she does, please don't forget her family - no matter what anyone says.

Ok, I'll read the rest.

O, I think I had that all pretty down pat. There's this lil item in rhetoric which basically says that when you mention something, especially when you say "not" or "I don't mean this" that you actually punch that very thing. So, please, I think the hugest thing about the post now is that you need to "correct a perception of someone else." How do you manage that? Quite a trick, isn't it? Especially when you haven't read the entire post.

That's exactly what you cannot do after the fact. I read your post as being self-laudatory and self-serving just as I would read the same way a "cheerleader" post telling her to forget everyone BUT herself.

The thing is by deciding you needed to "innoculate" the thread before there was any bacterial outbreak simply says that you have a point to make. That's just the fact, Interalia.

Nichole

Quote from: interalia on April 28, 2009, 09:47:53 PM
You are correct, and that's makes this decision so important.  I apologize if what I say is in any way offensive, but please understand, I wish the best for you and your family.  In the pain you are in, it will be tempting, if it is not already, to think only of the pain, to think mostly of yourself and doing whatever it takes to make it go away.  There will be some here that will tell you that only you matter, and anyone who disagrees with you does not.  I am here to say the opposite.

You are not your own.  You belong to your children and (presumably) your wife.  As you make the choices you make, please consider them - transition will cause them unavoidable pain.  You did not choose to have GID, but you do choose what you do with it and how you affect the people around you.  If the choice is truly between transition or die, as it is for many, justifying that choosing to transition rather than being a dead does NOT a noble act of fatherhood make (as some make it out to be) - it takes more than choosing to live to be a noble father.  Please do not leave their potential pain out of your equation no matter how hard they take it if you tell them, no matter how tempting it is to focus on your pain.

Best of luck to you, I don't envy your position.  Many make transition about not having a choice, so I will put it this way.  You didn't choose to have GID; they didn't choose to have a father/husband who transitioned.  I pray for happiness for you all.

I imagine this post will be incredibly unpopular, and I'm sorry to any who it offends.  I just hate when I see posts that encourage people to focus only on themselves and not think anyone else matters, so I decided to speak before they did in favor of humility, meekness, selflessness, and charity.

You have a strong religious overtone to your post.

You know, God made Eve from Adam. So the way I see it...God was the first to turn a man into a woman. I'm just doing what he did.

Quote from: Nichole on April 28, 2009, 10:21:26 PM
O, I think I had that all pretty down pat. There's this lil item in rhetoric which basically says that when you mention something, especially when you say "not" or "I don't mean this" that you actually punch that very thing. So, please, I think the hugest thing about the post now is that you need to "correct a perception of someone else." How do you manage that? Quite a trick, isn't it? Especially when you haven't read the entire post.

I assume I didn't manage to change your opinion that I assumed I was alone in telling her not to forget her family or that I was trying to advocate my position.  But truthfully, I was not in fact stating either, nor being coercive, nor self-lauding, nor using rhetoric to push any agenda excepting that the OP not to forget her family.

I've said what I can say; people will read it for what it says, or read it for what they think it says.  It's no longer in my control.  I hope it helps someone.

---

Post Merge: April 28, 2009, 10:57:00 PM

---

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on April 28, 2009, 10:20:08 PM
Interalia,
I have a question kind of unrelated. What gender pronoun do you prefer? I saw that you are not transitioning so do you prefer male pronouns? Andro pronouns? I'm not sure but can you let me know? Sincerely, Meghan

Man, its tough to say this but I think the masculine form is the most appropriate.  It is how I live now.

I don't want to take away from the focus on you Lori, but I hadn't really understood where Interalia was coming from. Interalia, I read through your blog and I think the reason that your approach sounded different to me was in the way you approach your issues. From your blog's mission statement you said:

My Mission Statement
...(beginning part left out for brevity) I'm doing my best to provide an example so people who deal with GID won't feel the hopelessness fostered by attitudes like those who tell me I cannot make it. I want to show that for some, transition isn't the only option, but that is gonna take, research, work, and a ton of trial and error. People can support me in my quest or get out of the way. ;) I hope to find others who are undertaking the same path - that we might be able to support each other and learn how to deal with this together.

My rallying cry? "One less ruined family."

The posts I was reading from you seemed to take this approach too and you've been pretty open about it. Your approach on gay marriage seems similar. It seems as if your place here is to be an advocate for a different approach, one supposedly rooted in "humility, meekness, selflessness, and charity." Very noble pursuits but pretty transparent (forgive the pun.) I think it's fine for anyone to take whatever approach they want to transition, just realize that coming into a transsexual transitioning topic with the self-admitted personal rallying cry of "one less ruined family" is, I don't know...it feels very judgmental.

You seem to think quite a bit and I think that's great. I'm curious if you make the assumption that Lori and others with children don't think of others, if it's just "me me me" like you assume. Do you think that you are one of the few who actually think of the family and that other people couldn't have possibly transitioned successfully and continued to have loving relationship with their kids and exes? Does transition with kids necessarily have to be a miserable existence devoid of "humility, meekness, selflessness, and charity?" Can't people with a wife and kids successfully transition with the tacit approval and encouragement of a spouse and, if old enough, children?

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on April 28, 2009, 11:04:18 PM
I don't want to take away from the focus on you Lori, but I hadn't really understood where Interalia was coming from.

Don't fret dear. I find your posts fascinating and revealing. I'll take a back seat to you any day. I may learn something.

Quote from: Lori on April 28, 2009, 11:06:49 PM
Don't fret dear. I find your posts fascinating and revealing. I'll take a back seat to you any day. I may learn something.

I agree with Lori, Meghan, especially after reading the same blog posts. I've been thinking how does one not grind an axe when they admit that grinding that particular axe is their "mission."

Nice summation, Meg. Although perhaps we are all misconstruing this as an extension of the blog mission. I dunno. I can be pretty fair at having mistaken notions.

Nichole

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on April 28, 2009, 11:04:18 PM
You seem to think quite a bit and I think that's great. I'm curious if you make the assumption that Lori and others with children don't think of others, if it's just "me me me" like you assume. Do you think that you are one of the few who actually think of the family and that other people couldn't have possibly transitioned successfully and continued to have loving relationship with their kids and exes? Does transition with kids necessarily have to be a miserable existence devoid of "humility, meekness, selflessness, and charity?" Can't people with a wife and kids successfully transition with the tacit approval and encouragement of a spouse and, if old enough, children?

Thank you very much for taking a look at my blog - I know it is lengthy and there is a lot of stuff to weed through.  I do perfectly believe that people can transition successfully with their family relationships in tact, but that requires a GREAT deal of selflessness on the part of the one suffering from GID as well as the family who might or might not accept him/her.  I firmly believe we, in the end, cannot control the actions of others.  A transitioning father cannot make his wife or children accept him - but, the one who is transitioning CAN set a precedent of behavior, accepting that their choice will have consequences and willing to ride those consequences out and mourn with those who mourn, and help those in their families to deal with the pain of what appears to be losing someone they dearly love.  This doesn't guarantee acceptance, but it goes a long way toward helping them realize your situation and that you never ever ever wanted to hurt them.  The worst thing you can do, in my experience, is to treat them like the enemy, make yourself out to be the only victim, and marginalize their feelings.  I have seen this repeatedly having been involved in the community now for over 10 years.

I hate seeing families torn apart.  Sometimes it is inevitable, and not because of the transitioner, but because of the other members.  I want very much to act as a positive influence to keep families together, especially for those with members who deal with GID.  I feel so strongly for them because they are hurting, they are alone generally, and it can be so tempting to just say, "screw it all!" but I'm saying it doesn't have to be that way, and I don't just mean by not transitioning. 

And to the point of non-transitioning.  I will express it just to show another point of view, but will not press it if the other party shows no interest.  This path is mine - others have chosen theirs.  Transition is recognized as a viable path to fix the symptoms of GID, non-transition is not - at least, not yet.

Thanks Lori and Nichole. Interralia, I respect your stance and I like that you don't just throw something out there without REALLY thinking about it. Your blog is detailed but I like reading other peoples' thoughts on things so it was a good read for me, keep it up :)

Quote from: interalia on April 28, 2009, 11:17:28 PM
  Transition is recognized as a viable path to fix the symptoms of GID, non-transition is not - at least, not yet.

Actually, Jerry Leach, Focus on the Family and Dr. Kenneth Zucker among others not only recognize that as a viable path to fix GID symptomology, they extol it and practice it on people who seek them out or who have parents who seek them out.

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on April 29, 2009, 12:36:54 AM
Actually, Jerry Leach, Focus on the Family and Dr. Kenneth Zucker among others not only recognize that as a viable path to fix GID symptomology, they extol it and practice it on people who seek them out or who have parents who seek them out.

Nichole

Ugh...  I really don't want to be associated with that - but I realize it will happen.  They think they can "fix" you, I just want to learn how to cope.  I don't know if GID can be fixed per se, and I'm certainly not a fan of the "pray out the gay" ideals often extolled by Christian Evangelical groups.

OK, Interalia, but aren't Mormons evangelicals as well as Christians? How do you square all of that? And I am truly curious. The question isn't meant as a foil.

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on April 29, 2009, 12:51:59 AM
OK, Interalia, but aren't Mormons evangelicals as well as Christians? How do you square all of that? And I am truly curious. The question isn't meant as a foil.

Nichole

If a Mormon group advocated reparative therapy as these Evangelical groups are, I'd hold them under the same scrutiny.  Reparative therapy isn't my goal for myself or for anyone else who wishes to find paths other than transitioning.

Like I said, this path is my own, and while I feel guided to do so, it is in no way endorsed by my specific brand of faith.

Quote from: interalia on April 29, 2009, 12:57:03 AM
If a Mormon group advocated reparative therapy as these Evangelical groups are, I'd hold them under the same scrutiny.  Reparative therapy isn't my goal for myself or for anyone else who wishes to find paths other than transitioning.

Like I said, this path is my own, and while I feel guided to do so, it is in no way endorsed by my specific brand of faith.

Thank you. I don't like trying to mash someone into a group and then make them take, in my mind, the beliefs and attitudes of that group.

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on April 29, 2009, 01:02:51 AM
Thank you. I don't like trying to mash someone into a group and then make them take, in my mind, the beliefs and attitudes of that group.

Nichole

And I absolutely adore and thank you and others like you for that. :D

There is a road, no simple highway,
Between the dawn and the dark of night,
And if you go no one may follow,
That path is for your steps alone.

Always cried when Jerry sang that, because it always struck me as being such a just-so truth.

All of us can not, and perhaps, must not, walk the same path.  Roads that some prosper on are death traps for other people.  And, at some level, every life is a blind-folded walk through a mine field.  Through a glass, and darkly.

I guess that's what's always bothered me so much about the entire debate about who is and who is not what, and people telling others 'your not' while other who are, are yelling 'I'm not' - and gee it gets confusing.

Any person who would state that 'for X, Y is the only solution for everyone' is a complete and total moron, who, at the very least, needs to get out more.  There are all sorts of degrees of difference, shadings of realities, and perhaps separate realities in this world.  So many factors, variables, and luck, chance, and change that it gets hard to say what is the right or wrong choice for any given person at any given time.

Some might choose not to transition because of family, others because they have found a way to work it out in their life in some other manner.  Others for perhaps even other reasons.  On the whole, no reason is more valid than the others, no solution better.  That depends on a case by case deal, and how knows the heart of another well enough to say?

Still...

I agree with interalia in that many would seem to be honest to the point of recklessness, self-centered in the extreme.  I'm shocked at times that "Mimi" isn't the trans fem name of choice, because it sure fits a lot of people.  And what strikes me most about them is that they seem to be the same people who demand the most from others, while giving of themselves the least.  But that's not just a trans deal is it - more like the human condition. 

There does however seem to be something in repression that brings it out more - the making up for lost time, or feeling that 'Hey, I've suffered for my life, now it's your turn' to a lot of it.  And that's sad.

Its really sad when in a headlong rush to 'get what you want' (which, by the way, is often the worst thing for you) you wind up alienating people only to wake up one day in the middle of an emotional desert, without anyone around when you really need them.

interalia;

Your blog said you had transitioned. For Two full years. You then, transitioned back. Was it because of guilt? Did a preacher show you the errors of your ways? Was it just not for you? Did your spouse stick by you during the two years?  I'm really curious to know.

Not everybody is you, or like you. If you had to put all ts on a line and say that line went from 1-10, I'd be a 7. You may be a -3. I'm not you, you are not me. What works for you won't work for me.

I'm am in no way saying transition is right, wrong, or the answer. I've spent too many sleepless nights, hours, days and minutes toiling over it. I'm tired. It wore me down. Its the only thing I have not tried. You assume so much in your first post, you made me feel like I was new to this scene and about to transition with no regard or thought to my family. You know what happens when you assume? It was crass and had a huge religious overtone to it.

I've had to face whether it would be better for my son if 1) I was alive as a woman to help raise him or 2) Just end it and spare him the embarrassment.

Death sounds like the really selfish way to me. Most children I know don't care. They are taught hate, prejudice, to shun, and treat others with disdain because they are different.

I wonder who teaches them those things. Maybe children could be taught to love, share, understand, and learn about those with differences instead? Most children are innocent. It is the adults and their beliefs pushed and passed onto the children that warp and twist their brains and make them believe.

Maybe daddy will get hit by a train and there will be a funeral and everything and then Lori will just show up and start helping one day? I don't know. It's a thought. I do know if I am not in his life, I cannot help him. I cannot help him if I am so weak, tired, and ripped inside out from GID either. I have to fix myself before I can help and truly love anybody. I have several issues. OCD, Body Dysmorphia, paranoia, and I'm TS to boot. I have an intro here. You may have to dig back to 2006 to find it. Use the little search feature. You and I are not in the same boat, we are not going to live by the same rules because we are not the same people.

I am not bound or confined by religion and their beliefs. I'll put my faith in science any day. You can come at me with religion and the fear of god but it would be more prudent to come at somebody like me with something that is more tangible and real.

Religion and money are the roots of all evil and most wars. People have been killing with love in the name of god for years. There are mormons, christians, lutherins, buhdists, muslims, catholics, and the list goes on. Funny thing is, they all think they are the ones that are right.

In Japan, suicide is an honorable act to save face. In the USA it is wrong and sure ride to hell. It is what you are raised to believe that makes you the person you are. The stronger you believe it, the more it rules your life.

There are some things that just won't go away like cancer or gid. They are real. Religion is a belief and it can be unlearned. That is true freedom.

Quote from: tekla on April 29, 2009, 03:25:08 AM
There is a road, no simple highway,
Between the dawn and the dark of night,
And if you go no one may follow,
That path is for your steps alone.

... And what strikes me most about them is that they seem to be the same people who demand the most from others, while giving of themselves the least.  But that's not just a trans deal is it - more like the human condition.  ...

Its really sad when in a headlong rush to 'get what you want' (which, by the way, is often the worst thing for you) you wind up alienating people only to wake up one day in the middle of an emotional desert, without anyone around when you really need them.

OK, you started well with Ripple and I feel ya about always kinda wellin' up when you heard Jerry sing it.

And I disagree with neither of you that those around us, including those on BBs like this, often enough get short shrift when "your value for me is over. Bye." But, yes, the condition is rather "modern American commercialist human" in the ways it plays out. And you and I have talked enough for you to know that I actually agree that too often transsexual make their lives these "scaled down to just me emotionally" hell-holes.

Although I have to admit that lone-rangerness is often enough the defining characteristic of those of us who have maintained "secrets" and "secret-lives" all of our lives and that anomie such as human populations may have never before known are the defining memes of our lives in our modern age. Marx was everso on-point with that in the 1850s.

But, there are times when people should also take stock of their own misery with living the ways they have lived and realize that there are other ways and being one's self isn't an overly poor way to start that.

Balance and poise are the keys and often enough the last things we consider in making decisions about transition. And far too often, imo, "transition or die" becomes just another poor excuse for riding roughshod over people who love one and who maybe need a few thoughts as we go through our processes.

I also find it terribly telling that often enough some of the largest purveyors of those memes are those who scream loudest that they are lonely and alienated and cannot find "love." Quite a conundrum, no?

Interalia's thoughts that there are more irons in this fire than many of us are willing to see I agree with. The presumption that he is maybe the only one able to see that was where I disagreed.

The only thing I should expect if I disregard the well-being of others in my pursuit of me is the eternal fact of my own loneliness and alienation from people who might provide me with a very normal, prolly the deepest, human craving: society (of some sort.)   

There's far too much of that I read daily in here and even more in other places on the net. But, I don't get the notion at all that Lori is deeply embedded in those memes. So, the application, like everything else, should have context and nuance and be applied where it rears it's pointy little head, not in a scatter-shot fashion.

You've been very good at pointing that out previously in more than one context, Kat. And you've been dismissed and harangued for doing so. And, lo, turns out you were exactly spot-on in your analysis when things have played out and shown what was truly at the base of the matter.

She says while listening to her son trying to learn Gimme Shelter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JePvjyZ9K0A&feature=PlayList&p=474C55E30E5B5BEF&index=2&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL) on his Rock Band guitar. :)

Nichole

It seems to be a very fine line between looking after yourself and looking after those you care about. Sacrificing your life as in dying for another is noble, and we call those people heroes. I have to wonder if sacrificing your life while remaining alive is good for anyone though, because sometimes I really don't understand how we can hope to be of any use to anyone else when we are in such horrible turmoil ourselves. Maybe by negative example- "whatever you do, don't end up like me." It would tend to color and condition everything we do, especially in our interpersonal relationships, and might even lead to resentment of the very ones we feel we are sacrificing ourselves for.

I dont have an answer for anyone except myself and I don't have an agenda for "helping" others to my point of view. I feel like such a dummy when some other around here speak, like Nichole, saying these things far better and more articulate than I ever could. But it seems ultimately all we can do is weigh our priorities and decide what is going to be the least harmful to everyone involved, while still not forgetting to include ourselves in that equation. Not only a fine line, but a slippery one too. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Quote from: Lori on April 29, 2009, 06:54:54 AM
interalia;

Your blog said you had transitioned. For Two full years. You then, transitioned back. Was it because of guilt? Did a preacher show you the errors of your ways? Was it just not for you? Did your spouse stick by you during the two years?  I'm really curious to know.

I was unmarried, young, and I was quite successful at it (transition).  But I started to see patterns in the community, patterns that really disturbed me, patterns I thought might apply also to me, and it started me questioning if maybe I could live life successfully as a male.  That questioning eventually culminated in a powerful spiritual experience telling me that I absolutely should attempt to make it without transitioning.

Quote from: Lori
Not everybody is you, or like you. If you had to put all ts on a line and say that line went from 1-10, I'd be a 7. You may be a -3. I'm not you, you are not me. What works for you won't work for me.

I'm am in no way saying transition is right, wrong, or the answer. I've spent too many sleepless nights, hours, days and minutes toiling over it. I'm tired. It wore me down. Its the only thing I have not tried. You assume so much in your first post, you made me feel like I was new to this scene and about to transition with no regard or thought to my family. You know what happens when you assume? It was crass and had a huge religious overtone to it.

I apologize for the unintended overtones.  I had no clue at the time of writing it where your mindset was and I wanted to offer a perspective that is too little stated in case your thinking was taking you in a direction that might result in more sorrow for you and your family.  I'm am SO UNBELIEVABLY happy that you are considering your children and family, that you are making decisions that aren't only about you.

Quote from: Lori
Maybe daddy will get hit by a train and there will be a funeral and everything and then Lori will just show up and start helping one day? I don't know. It's a thought. I do know if I am not in his life, I cannot help him. I cannot help him if I am so weak, tired, and ripped inside out from GID either. I have to fix myself before I can help and truly love anybody. I have several issues. OCD, Body Dysmorphia, paranoia, and I'm TS to boot. I have an intro here. You may have to dig back to 2006 to find it. Use the little search feature. You and I are not in the same boat, we are not going to live by the same rules because we are not the same people.

I agree totally, but it doesn't mean we cannot mutually benefit from one another's experiences.

Quote from: Lori
I am not bound or confined by religion and their beliefs. I'll put my faith in science any day. You can come at me with religion and the fear of god but it would be more prudent to come at somebody like me with something that is more tangible and real.

Religion and money are the roots of all evil and most wars. People have been killing with love in the name of god for years. There are mormons, christians, lutherins, buhdists, muslims, catholics, and the list goes on. Funny thing is, they all think they are the ones that are right.

In Japan, suicide is an honorable act to save face. In the USA it is wrong and sure ride to hell. It is what you are raised to believe that makes you the person you are. The stronger you believe it, the more it rules your life.

There are some things that just won't go away like cancer or gid. They are real. Religion is a belief and it can be unlearned. That is true freedom.

Religion is important to me and gives me added strength in times of weakness and provides blessings to my life I cannot quantify, however I realize not everyone feels this way, and I, at least, try to make my posts as non-religious as possible focusing only on my experience, on what I've learned and doing so without the presentation of dogma.  I believe I've been fairly successful at it as I tend to only bring up my religion when it is asked of me to do so.  I apologize if I did not sheathe my religious feelings enough in my post.  I don't see any direct religious connotations in my post, but perhaps that is because I'm too used to them.

All that said, good luck to you.  I'm happy you are really working hard to make the best decision for you and your family.  If you need social support (as much as the internet can offer) and would desire it of me, let me know, and I'll see if there is a way I can help.

Awwww *hugs* 

Quote from: FairyGirl on April 29, 2009, 07:40:50 AM
It seems to be a very fine line between looking after yourself and looking after those you care about. Sacrificing your life as in dying for another is noble, and we call those people heroes. I have to wonder if sacrificing your life while remaining alive is good for anyone though, because sometimes I really don't understand how we can hope to be of any use to anyone else when we are in such horrible turmoil ourselves. Maybe by negative example- "whatever you do, don't end up like me." It would tend to color and condition everything we do, especially in our interpersonal relationships, and might even lead to resentment of the very ones we feel we are sacrificing ourselves for.

I dont have an answer for anyone except myself and I don't have an agenda for "helping" others to my point of view. I feel like such a dummy when some other around here speak, like Nichole, saying these things far better and more articulate than I ever could. But it seems ultimately all we can do is weigh our priorities and decide what is going to be the least harmful to everyone involved, while still not forgetting to include ourselves in that equation. Not only a fine line, but a slippery one too. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

If only we had voices like hers. Nichole can write about just about better than anybody I've cared to take time to read. I don't suppose she is an English teacher?

---

Post Merge: May 03, 2009, 02:22:17 PM

---

Quote from: gothique11 on May 01, 2009, 05:02:36 AM
Awwww *hugs*

Thanks. Glad to read you are doing better.