Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Defense: Colo. transgender slaying about deception
Gay and Lesbian Times
Thursday, 23-Apr-2009


http://www.gaylesbiantimes.com/?id=14495 (http://www.gaylesbiantimes.com/?id=14495)


GREELEY, Colo. (AP) – An accused killer knew for at least 36 hours that an 18-year-old transgender woman was biologically male and beat her to death with a fire extinguisher because he didn't like that, a prosecutor insisted Thursday.

But an attorney for Allen Andrade said the case is about the woman's deception and Andrade's reaction to that deception, not whether Angie Zapata's lifestyle was right or wrong.

Beating people to death with a fire extinguisher is pretty much against the law, no matter how you try to justify it.

What worries me, is that he could get a retrial, as his lawyer really sucked.  Of course appeals take money, and I doubt if he has it.  So, hoorey for American Justice, the best system money can buy.

Quote from: tekla on April 23, 2009, 05:31:25 PM
Beating people to death with a fire extinguisher is pretty much against the law, no matter how you try to justify it.

What worries me, is that he could get a retrial, as his lawyer really sucked.  Of course appeals take money, and I doubt if he has it.  So, hoorey for American Justice, the best system money can buy.

I'm not exactly sure that given the circumstances even had he had a Johnnie Cochran or William Kunstrler or Clarence Darrow he'd have gotten much different. There was only a certain leeway to argue, especially given the exclusions the judge had made on evidence. If his attorneys had used any of that to exculpate him, which they could have, then the prosecution would have been able to use it as well. That would have allowed them to add a whole lot that the defense knew better than to allow in, so the defense steered clear of the gray areas that the prosecution would surely have taken advantage of if the defenders had strayed into them.

So, basically, all he could argue was that he was so enraged that his rage went on and on as he beat her multiple times with a fire-extinguisher after beating her with his fists. Plus he admitted killing her, so arguing he didn't do it was going to be useless in any case.

Read the Bilerico piece by Abby Jensen that Leslie posted and you can see the problems with appeals pretty well as well. I think this man's goose is well-done and ready for serving.

Nichole 

I never concern myself with the legal aspects of appeals if the money, which is considerable, ain't there.  Besides, he was caught dead to rights, thank god for stupid criminals as my cop friend says.

I think this is just so very sick.  He sees her as nothing but a gay guy, according to his jail conversations.  People out there just don't get it.  She was not lying when she said she was all woman.  This is nothing but a premeditated hate crime.  I think they should execute him with a fire extinguisher up ......  oops I can't say that here.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: Kristi on April 23, 2009, 10:27:41 PM
I think this is just so very sick.  He sees her as nothing but a gay guy, according to his jail conversations.  People out there just don't get it.  She was not lying when she said she was all woman.  This is nothing but a premeditated hate crime.  I think they should execute him with a fire extinguisher up ......  oops I can't say that here.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Love those "Texas" ideas about justice, Kris!! :laugh:

A fire-extinguisher at the bottom for one over the top!! :laugh: That's not quite Mosaic Law is it? :)

Nichole

Obviously, the "criminal is the victim" defense is alive and well but less and less people are buying it.  And that's a good thing.

But this case, as so many before it, shows there's still people out there who feel transgender people are less than human.  Society's ability to dehumanize is at the core of discrimination and prejudice as well as countless tortures and murders all throughout the history of civilization (if that's what you want to call it!)  You'd think by now we would instantly recognize dehumanization and call out anyone trying to use it to justify criminal behavior. 

I guess we still have a long way to go.  Maybe we need a campaign like the "just say no to drugs" campaign - "Just say no to dehumanization!"  But would people get it?

Julie

Maybe we need a campaign like the "just say no to drugs" campaign - "Just say no to dehumanization!"  But would people get it?

Umm, did they get the 'just say no to drugs' thing?  If not, I don't have much hope for the other one.

And the easiest, most amazing way to humanize something that has been dehumanized is to simply introduce people to it.  Just because you know something does not mean you will like it, but it does make it harder to just dismiss out of hand. 

You know why that entire war on drugs thing failed?  It because anyone who got even reasonably close to drugs quickly found out that yeesh, it turns out they are not all the same.  Pot is not crack and to lump them all together did everyone a disservice.

I'm not exactly sure that given the circumstances even had he had a Johnnie Cochran or William Kunstrler or Clarence Darrow he'd have gotten much different.
That would depend on him getting Marcia Clark as the prosecution.  You know what they say, "A students wind up working for B students, and C students work for the government" and few places is that truer then the LA County DAs office, which is a mess.  So, at least in this case, the prosecution did not play into the hands of the defense (which sucked, and that was the best thing you could say about it). 

And never, but never, say anything in a jail.  Yeesh.

Quote from: tekla on April 24, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
And never, but never, say anything in a jail.  Yeesh.

Yeah, that one was really, really stoopid. Like doesn't everyone know those phone calls are recorded and listened to? And hadn't he served time before?

A good prosecution is helped eversomuch by a moron defendant.

Nichole

That and - I'm sure this will shock you - almost everyone in jail is trying to get the hell out, so they are going to try to cut any deal, sell anyone out that they can. 

Quote from: tekla on April 24, 2009, 09:51:57 AM
That and - I'm sure this will shock you - almost everyone in jail is trying to get the hell out, so they are going to try to cut any deal, sell anyone out that they can. 

Surely NOT!!! I fear you've disabused me of my last illusion, darling!! Here I thought all jailed individuals were either all guilty or all actually innocent of the charges that placed them there and that they were all well-enough with serving their entire sentences as delivered by the original court!

Darn you, Kat!! I may never get over those last 27 words in your posts!! I prolly won't be back now for days or years, if ever. My last virginity has been taken unawares! :'(

:)

Nichole

What is interesting is that as my cop friend tells me, that when people finally get caught, you can't shut them up, its like the police and their new cellie are finally people 'they can talk to' about what they've been up to.  More convictions based on people who can't STFU then 'great police work Lou.'

Quote from: Nichole on April 24, 2009, 10:14:24 AM
My last virginity has been taken unawares! :'(

:)

Nichole

Surely you are still a virgin...

in your left ear!
:D
-Sandy