Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Ashley315 Has been removed from the staff for the next week due to inappropriate actions towards a user on chat. Specifically violations of Rule 10 and 15.  Staff this is a support site, and if you find that you can't offer support then it's time to take a break and log out. I won't tolerate a user bashing or flaming any user(s) or group(s). I will tolerate it from a staff member even less.

Remove me completely then.

I refuse to walk on pins and needles around certain members of chat because they get their feelings hurt over every little thing.

I have never been PC nor will I ever try to be PC.  If people get so offended over the words someone else chooses to use then that person really has some deep seeded issues they need to deal with.

I will also not be in the same room as an 80 lb kid whining about how "fat" he is every day in chat even though everyone has told him how dangerous what he is doing is. There really are some people in the forums struggling with a real need to loose weight.  I don't think these people need to listen to said 80 lb kid complaining about how "fat" he is day after day.

I don't sugar coat things like the rest of you.  Life is hell.  No one ever promised you a rose garden.

Have a wonderful day.

ok, granted, ashley may have been harsh with her words. I too share my frustration with Emoboi. I've been close to yelling at the kid. It's like watching a love one stand on train tracks and refusing to move or someone you love that keeps sticking your hand in fire. You try everything to get him to stop. I'm not going to condone or condemn  and please don't take offense because I mean none. I do hope that you stay on ashley. don't leave please. I've seen you help people and to others.  I'm not saying that you have to condone her reaction but please try to understand her reaction. She's not the first one to react this way to Emoboi. Please don't except Ashley's resignation either. she's not the first to react this way and I'm sure given time she'll see, not quiting is the better route.

Well, my baby went to Illinois with some bad-talkin' boy she could destroy
A real suicide case, but there was nothin' I could do to stop it

And the real suicide cases I've met, I have to agree with Bob, nothin' you can do stop it.

You're right, Ashley, nobody DID promise me a rose garden.  I don't get a rose garden in everyday life, and I don't expect one.  I don't expect one in the chatroom, either.  But I do expect basic respect of members, and frankly I'm not sure why you wanted to be a mod if you don't respect members and their view points. 

As a member of the trans community you should know that words can have a VERY powerful impact.  I guess you don't mind being called by the wrong pronouns and that it doesn't bother you in the least, but you probably recognize that many of us are hurt by people using the "wrong" pronoun every day.  I suppose you feel we ought not be, because it's "just a word."  After all, if we have strong reactions to words we are "weak."

If you aren't interested in supporting folks and helping folks support themselves I'm unsure why you became a mod in the first place.

Quote from: Jenni on May 12, 2009, 02:04:49 PM
... share my frustration with Emoboi...

My my it would seem that Ashley is a little miffed!

Aaaah the root of the frustration has been named!  Too bad it was done in a public forum!

-={LR}=-

Mod behavior aside - since I never understood the reason or rational for the entire idea - but... But I do expect basic respect of members.  Why, because you breathe and poop?  What exactly have you done in your life, or with your life, that would accord you respect?  I mean that in all sincerity?  I hear people all the time stake some sort of claim for 'respect' and for the life of me, I can't find anything about them to respect in the least.

Because, as I've also found out.  People who really do deserve respect, could care less if they don't get it.  It's just 'another country heard from' and that's that.

People have told that person, at least on the boards, that weighing 85 lbs and thinking your fat is dangerous.  And to persist in being that thin would kill him sooner, or later.

It's small wonder to me that so many people in here have such trouble in the real world, which, as it turns out, is mean and cruel as a day to day thing.  What any one person says to you, ought to mean very little, and one wrong word ruining your whole day must make it hard to really get along, and get ahead.

Resignation accepted.  This was more than not walking on pins and needles and not being PC. This was abuse. You can call it tough love but it was down right hateful. It would have been unacceptable from a user it's doubly so from a staff member. Staff have always been held to a higher standard. I wish you a good day.

May 11 22:47:19 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: it's rather distgusting IMO
May 11 22:47:50 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: especially how bad it is for young girls growing up with that kind of image
May 11 22:47:57 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: sickining
May 11 22:48:27 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I jsut want to take them to McDonalds and shove cheeseburgers down their throats till they gain about 30 lbs
May 11 22:49:47 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: me 2
May 11 22:50:15 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: well, that is your main problem emoboi
May 11 22:50:21 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: you have an obsession with being way to thin
May 11 22:50:29 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: and it's pretty ignorant if you ask me
May 11 22:50:37 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: but... you are a child.. what should we expect
May 11 22:50:47 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: because being that thin is very dangerous
May 11 22:50:57 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: and very unhealthy
May 11 22:51:03 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: and not realistic
May 11 22:51:28 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: and seriously, why are so obsessed with the way supermodels look?
May 11 22:51:34 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: arn't you suppose to be a guy?
May 11 22:51:50 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: why would you want your body to look like a supermodels?
May 11 22:52:04 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: leads me to wonder....
May 11 22:53:55 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: uh.. no they don't
May 11 22:54:03 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: that is your simple minded retarded opinion
May 11 22:54:14 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: based on your short life that you have lived
May 11 22:54:16 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: and guess what
May 11 22:54:23 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: your opinion doesn't matter
May 11 22:55:10 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: it's appropriate here I think
May 11 22:55:34 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: yeah it is.. Emoboi has shown time and time again that he is mentally handicaped
May 11 22:55:57 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: oh stop with the PC crap Andrew... please... That is so 1996
May 11 22:56:06 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I like the word
May 11 22:56:14 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I like the word ->-bleeped-<-, and dicklet
May 11 22:56:18 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: so I use them as well
May 11 22:56:49 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I will never follow PC crap because if someone gets offended over words then they have serious issues
May 11 22:57:01 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: it's a word.. nothing more
May 11 22:57:09 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: emoboi.. don't even
May 11 22:57:16 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: exactly
May 11 22:57:29 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: that's like going into church and saying you are offended by the word god
May 11 22:57:35 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: get over it.. it's words
May 11 22:58:32 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I don't care if I'm offending someone..  Especially over something I say..  Personaly I think if anyone gets offended over someone elses choice in words then it shows that person is weak.
May 11 23:01:02 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I"m not supporting Emoboi anymore.  If the rest of you want to. Fine.  Be my guest.  I'm calling him out on his BS.
May 11 23:01:29 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: by all means please do DRain
May 11 23:02:08 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: whaaa whaaa whaaaa
May 11 23:02:43 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I'm not in the mood for your "i'm fat" crap tonight Emoboi.  THere are far greater things for people to be concerned with.
May 11 23:03:38 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: You know what you are doing is unhealthy and people have repeatedly warned you about it, yet you continue to do it.
May 11 23:03:55 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: It has Emoboi..  I've talked to you about it many many times
May 11 23:03:58 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: you won't listen
May 11 23:04:35 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: you are by far not fat.
May 11 23:04:49 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: and deep down... you know it
May 11 23:05:15 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: but you have this unhealthy obsession with looking like a supermodel.
May 11 23:05:20 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I know how it is Emoboi
May 11 23:05:30 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I have my own demons that I battle
May 11 23:05:33 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: every damn day
May 11 23:05:36 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: trust me
May 11 23:05:38 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I know
May 11 23:05:45 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I just don't whine about it every day in here
May 11 23:05:48 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: I keep it to myself
May 11 23:05:57 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: becauswe they are my demons
May 11 23:06:22 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: Every day you are in here with this same crap
May 11 23:06:27 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: it really gets old
May 11 23:06:51 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: you asked for help many many times
May 11 23:06:56 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: you got advice
May 11 23:06:58 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: you won't take it
May 11 23:07:08 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: so do what you are going to do but keep it to yourself
May 11 23:09:49 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: nope
May 11 23:09:57 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: but whatever
May 11 23:10:32 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: who cares
May 11 23:13:38 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: good question
May 11 23:13:56 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: only you can answer that one for yourself
May 11 23:15:53 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: well there ya go
May 11 23:16:00 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: question is, do you have love?
May 11 23:17:28 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: love for others or others in love with you?
May 11 23:21:41 ns1 ircd[10436]: Ashley315->#Chat: well good luck with that

Actually no Andrew I don't get upset over it.  People have the right to say what they want to say.  Not that I have ever had a problem with anyone calling me by the wrong pronoun.

Thanks for accepting the resignation.

Anorexia is a psychological disease. :-\ The only thing that can 'fix it' is strong therapy, not some people yelling at him and calling him retarded in a place where he thinks he feels safe.  It doesn't matter how many of us tell him it's unhealthy, it's a compulsion, much like OCD, only constant outside help will ever be strong enough to help him fight it.  And certainly not telling him to just shut up and deal with it on his own because that could make it even worse and dissuade him from ever seeking the help he needs.

I see absolutely no regard for the person here, just selfish annoyance.  If you're tired of helping someone it's easy to just walk away.  There's no excuse for being rude just for the sake of it or because you think being rude is just the way life is.  Not on a support forum, it isn't.  And in the real world, anorexia IS a psychological condition that DOES merit professional help, and does not count under the category of 'mental handicap,' 'opinion,' 'stupidity,' 'childishness,' or any other thing you said.  So if you're so caught up with behaving exactly like 'the real world,' then perhaps you should do some research on anorexia and tailor your responses accordingly.

Quote from: TamTam on May 13, 2009, 08:30:09 AM
I see absolutely no regard for the person here, just selfish annoyance.  If you're tired of helping someone it's easy to just walk away.  There's no excuse for being rude just for the sake of it or because you think being rude is just the way life is. 

Very well put.  +1

Quote from: TamTam on May 13, 2009, 08:30:09 AM
Anorexia is a psychological disease. :-\ The only thing that can 'fix it' is strong therapy, not some people yelling at him and calling him retarded in a place where he thinks he feels safe.  It doesn't matter how many of us tell him it's unhealthy, it's a compulsion, much like OCD, only constant outside help will ever be strong enough to help him fight it.  And certainly not telling him to just shut up and deal with it on his own because that could make it even worse and dissuade him from ever seeking the help he needs.

I see absolutely no regard for the person here, just selfish annoyance.  If you're tired of helping someone it's easy to just walk away.  There's no excuse for being rude just for the sake of it or because you think being rude is just the way life is.  Not on a support forum, it isn't.  And in the real world, anorexia IS a psychological condition that DOES merit professional help, and does not count under the category of 'mental handicap,' 'opinion,' 'stupidity,' 'childishness,' or any other thing you said.  So if you're so caught up with behaving exactly like 'the real world,' then perhaps you should do some research on anorexia and tailor your responses accordingly.

It is very obvious why you were picked as a Global Moderator TamTam, there sgould be more like you.

-={LR}=-

Quote from: TamTam on May 13, 2009, 08:30:09 AM
The only thing that can 'fix it' is strong therapy, not some people yelling at him and calling him retarded in a place where he thinks he feels safe. 

And perhaps the only way to get him to get the help he needs is to tell him some home truths and force him to confront his illness head-on.
Often 'Tough Love' gets results when all the tree hugging in the world turns out to be a big pile of FAIL.
Often these 'Safe' environments are only sheltering, fostering and exacerbating the illness. I don't blame people for not wanting to part of that enabling.
Often people care too much to sit back and do nothing.
Often people care too much to walk away.

My question is this:
Where the f**k are the parents?

Quote from: Vexing on May 13, 2009, 03:59:38 PM
And perhaps the only way to get him to get the help he needs is to tell him some home truths and force him to confront his illness head-on.
Often 'Tough Love' gets results when all the tree hugging in the world turns out to be a big pile of FAIL.
Often these 'Safe' environments are only sheltering, fostering and exacerbating the illness. I don't blame people for not wanting to part of that enabling.
Often people care too much to sit back and do nothing.
Often people care too much to walk away.

My question is this:
Where the f**k are the parents?

I agree with that last remark.

The earlier ones tend to be "accepted wisdom" and not necessarily true on their face.

The problem with the "safe" environments are not what you seem to imagine.

I've worked around and in Critical Care Units for eating disorders and they do not foster, shelter or exacerbate the illness. In point of fact they tend to be rather strict about food intake and coming clean with their clients. At least the one's who don't die before they get there.

Just as the problem with addictions treatment the problem with CCUs is that insurance coverage has established low length of service as being the primary factor in their ability to make a good profit on their policies.

The patients get great care within the facility and then once they are considered to be "medically safe" (iow, they are not in critical medical care any longer) they are considered to be "cured."

Follow-up and ongoing learning and practicing new ways of living are not reimbursed. For some fairly legitimate reasons (like living on an IV for 2 weeks and having your heart restarted four times while you were there and then being forced to go home and out into the world to "get better" because your insurance will not pay for any further treatment except the normal 7-14 days in a "treatment" program) there is no process available (except to those with very wealthy families or those who are particularly committed to getting better on their own) for the patient to actually find some place that is actually "safe."

It's like saying to the amputee, "well, the stump's stopped bleeding. Off ya go and I really hope you can find a prosthetic and learn how to use it and get around like all the rest of us."

Learned behavior and deeply-seated obsessions take time and practice to get over and the brain takes time to adjust itself to a new way of seeing things. And the CCUs have no mandate to do those things thanks to "managed care" since they don't operate "for free."

Lots of patients are allowed a few extra days 2-4 on grace often enough and the CCU eats that cost.

One of my very best friends (now 27) has been through numerous treatments (from 4-14 days) to heal from anorexia since she was 14. She has slips and even though she leads a support-group for other anorexics she still has her periods of not eating.

A lot of human problems are not susceptible to "short-term" and blithe presumptions.   

Please get some education about how these programs do work and how they work before you decide that they do more harm than good.

Nichole

Oh, btw, if people are going to "get aggravated" with hearing the same things over and over again from those who are actually struggling with an obsession or other deeply-seated behavior they should prolly find ways to take a break from such a person if they are gonna mod anything at all.

Bashing the person and showing "tough love" does not apply in this situation. The good sense of the mod does apply and from what I've read here that was not being used.

It ain't the street here and every mod needs to be aware of that. Most of us never say the things we often think and many of us refuse to take actions that might even be seen as "favoritism" or "overly harsh."

The transcript Susan posted showed what happens when the mod either refuses or ignores how to maintain her own safety. That is simply unconscienable and the punishment was definitely warranted.

If staff is gonna "argue" with someone then we need to have some grasp of who we are "arguing" with and an even better grasp of what the guidelines are on this site.

Quote from: Nichole on May 13, 2009, 04:19:42 PM
Please get some education about how these programs do work and how they work before you decide that they do more harm than good.

What, six years of being an anorexic isn't good enough for you?

So I take it that means you used to be?  I have a question.  Would someone on the internet calling you a man, childish, sick, annoying, whiny, and telling you to shut up, have helped you at all?  And if so, why do you think the same treatment would necessarily work on someone else?

There's a difference between tough love and just being rude for no other reason than to be rude.  And if what emoboi needs is to be shoved into a program, fine, but none of us here can exactly do that, can we?

Quote from: Vexing on May 13, 2009, 04:22:32 PM
What, six years of being an anorexic isn't good enough for you?

No, it's not, Vexing. Just like 15 years of being an addict gives no one any insight into addiction in general. The fact I have a brain isn't qualification for me to do brain surgery on others.

That you perceived treatment in a particular way isn't very surprising. Pretty much all patients either appreciate or dislike their treatment, there's not a lot of middle ground and the ways you internally feel about "getting help" also play into your own perceptions.

Besides, as you've stated, you're elsewhere than in the US. So whatever system NZ has doesn't mean it's the same as the CCUs here. 

Quote from: TamTam on May 13, 2009, 04:30:43 PM
So I take it that means you used to be?  I have a question.  Would someone on the internet calling you a man, childish, sick, annoying, whiny, and telling you to shut up, have helped you at all?

Impossible to know.

QuoteThere's a difference between tough love and just being rude for no other reason than to be rude.

By what yardstick do you measure the difference between the two?
Could you specify your criteria?

Quote from: Vexing on May 13, 2009, 04:38:22 PM
Impossible to know.
By what yardstick do you measure the difference between the two?
Could you specify your criteria?

Ok, girl. You had your say and we had ours. You gonna try to make us prove that we're right or that you are? Why bother?

You have your opinion and had never said anything about being an anorexic yourself. If what you're going for is to be "right" then please just take the opportunity to declare that you are right up front. It'll save ever so much back and forth. Or, if the intention is to just argue. Then there might be something else that would entertain you.

N~

My criteria is when the words are insults.  Tough love would be something like "Listen, you've been here for a year and we've all said all we can think of to say.  Are you going to listen to us or are you going to keep coming back with the same hardships?  Take our advice, and then if it doesn't work, you can continue."

What Ashley said were insults, though.  She insinuated that his disorder makes him not a guy, that it makes him a child and stupid and mentally handicapped.. well, you can read it up there.  Those are insults.  Insults aren't tough love, they cause harm.  If I tried to get my overweight cousin to lose weight by calling him a fatty, a little crybaby girl, who on earth would say I was practicing tough love?

Those aren't 'truths,' they're not meant to make someone 'confront' anything, they're not helpful at all.  They're just insults.  Insults don't help people, they make people either feel worse about themselves or get defensive and stop listening.

Quote from: TamTam on May 13, 2009, 04:45:32 PM
My criteria is when the words are insults.  Tough love would be something like "Listen, you've been here for a year and we've all said all we can think of to say.  Are you going to listen to us or are you going to keep coming back with the same hardships?  Take our advice, and then if it doesn't work, you can continue."

I don't call that 'Tough Love' at all.
That's more like ambivalent love.

I'm sorry I can't immediately come up with an example of tough love.  How about my examples of what tough love is not?

but none of us here can exactly do that, can we?

No, but you sure can work to help keep him out of a program, and often that is done by being nice, and with nothing but the best of intentions.  Turns out, it is cruel to be kind.

Chat, and everyone being all nice, and understanding is perhaps, the last thing this person needed.  I don't know much about eating disorders, but I know way too much about addiction, and I'm sure some of that is very similar, in that the degree of others helping, does not help, it only enables.

I mean it seems to me that these two statements, first by Vexing, and second by Nichole, are pretty close to the same.
Often 'Tough Love' gets results when all the tree hugging in the world turns out to be a big pile of FAIL.
I've worked around and in Critical Care Units for eating disorders and they do not foster, shelter or exacerbate the illness. In point of fact they tend to be rather strict about food intake and coming clean with their clients.

That to do anything about this is hard, and its very much 'not nice' to the people who go through it.  What little I know about addiction is that nothing changes till everything is gone.  Lost job, lost family, no drugs and in jail is where most people get nirvana, not before.

And, when they get to those places that can help them, its a very painful voyage where people are forced to not only see a lot of stuff about themselves that they wished to ignore, but to also confront the damage they have done to themselves and to just about everyone around them.

What's step one?  Admitting you have a problem and that you are powerless to do much about it.  All to often chat offers the exact kind of mollycoddling that Vexing is decrying.  Everyone wants to be supportive, and they don't need support.  They need either professional help, or an undertaker.  Sooner, rather than later, in most cases.  And if you don't get the first, the second will find you.

What chat all too often tends to offer people with problems like this, is sympathy masquerading as support, and its the last thing they need.  They need professional help, and if it ain't you, then the best thing you can do for them is get the hell out of the way.

I would think that tough love is honesty without insults.

It's okay to be angry with someone. It's okay to be strong and honest, but when you begin reacting out of exasperation, it's time to step back.  But it's a tricky thing sometimes, to catch yourself from going over the line.

This post is not specifically directed at anyone.

I can understand getting frustrated and angry with emoboi.  More than one of us have tried to get through to him and get him to open up to his counselor and he still hangs on to his fear and obsession.  His is a very frustrating situation.

That said, we need to remember not to forget the love when we get tough.  It's very possible to do both at once without causing unnecessary pain.  Our own anger sometimes gets in the way of that and we, as helpers as well as than moderators, need to watch ourselves that we don't allow our own issues to influence our actions.

I'm sorry Ashley has decided to leave the chat staff, she made real contributions there more than once but so be it.  I hope she, as well as emoboi, learn to deal with the issues that lay at the root of this incident and soon put it behind them.

agreed that Ashley had contributed more than once. I don't really agree that this thread is call Ashley terminated. She quite, retired what have you. Granted she's one of my friends so maybe I'm being too sensative about this.

Quote from: Jenni on May 14, 2009, 12:33:59 PM
agreed that Ashley had contributed more than once. I don't really agree that this thread is call Ashley terminated. She quite, retired what have you. Granted she's one of my friends so maybe I'm being too sensative about this.

O, Jenni, of course you care more about your friend than you might other people. And, like us all you're gonna be more understanding and give her more leeway in stuff. It's natural and good for you! You have a friend you care about and who cares about you. :)

There have been mod friends of mine who've been suspended in the past and I felt their loss acutely and wished that it had never occurred. There have been times I've been told that some action I took was unwarranted and that I needed to tone it down. It happens.

Once the disagreement becomes public and statements are made like those back on that first page, well, there's not much choice left in the matter, is there?

The mods were reinstated eventually and I stopped making the action that was reprimanded and it's all good for now. Except I do miss a couple of mods who are no longer on site.

There are ways to do things on sites like Susan's. Mods are held to higher standards than members. It doesn't always seem right to us, but it makes oodles of sense. You still have your friend, look at the brighter side of that. :icon_hug:

N~

She was suspended after her followup comments on this thread I fired her.

Quote from: Ashley315 on May 14, 2009, 11:41:58 PM
I only wish you would take the time to really get to know your staff and members and make them really feel at home and important to you.

She does. You haven't been here that long. And there are a lot of members from different sections to keep track of. She's maybe not the biggest conversationalist, but she does keep track of who everyone is and what's going on with them. This is a second home to many. I wish you would stay and give it another a chance.

Quote from: Nero on May 15, 2009, 01:02:27 AM
She does. You haven't been here that long. And there are a lot of members from different sections to keep track of. She's maybe not the biggest conversationalist, but she does keep track of who everyone is and what's going on with them. This is a second home to many. I wish you would stay and give it another a chance.

She just lost that right and has been banned from the site totally.