Susan's Place Transgender Resources

People have different expectations for MTF SRS.
Some will be happy with the "standard" results.
Others will want to have further cosmetic surgery to fine-tune the results.
With enough money, patience and tolerance for surgery any specific result can be attained.
In a single operation there are limits to what can be accomplished and be minimally disruptive.

As pointed out elsewhere, (in most cases) if your gynecologist thinks your neo-vagina is natural, it's time to find a new gynecologist.

Any thoughts on this? How comfortable are you with results not consistent with genetic women?

Note: I can see problems with the selections in the poll, but that's about as good as I can get it.

Is it safe to assume you are referring exclusively to pre-op women?

I have not filled out the survey since I am post-op.

And I think the term is something along the lines of "Only your gyny will know for sure..."

-Sandy

Quote from: Sandy on May 15, 2009, 10:34:02 AM
I have not filled out the survey since I am post-op.

And I think the term is something along the lines of "Only your gyny will know for sure..."

Ditto.

If you are post-op, please construe the question as:

What were your expectations, what would you have been satisfied with?

Pre-op.  And I want my vagina to look and function as if it had always been part of me.

I guess I will find out when I have my SRS,

Janet

Quote from: Renate on May 15, 2009, 11:17:12 AM
If you are post-op, please construe the question as:

What were your expectations, what would you have been satisfied with?

Thanks, I have now voted.

Both my regular physician and my urologist/gynecologist have commented that my results look quite natural.  I have a feeling that they've seen their fair share, both cis and trans (I go to an LGBT clinic) and have a good eye for this kind of thing.

-Sandy

I want it all.

I have maybe some misgivings about the concept of surgically forming an "aesthetic looking" vulva, because of the recent fad in cosmetic surgery to remove external labia minora (it's called "labia minora reduction" a.k.a. "designer vagina (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/01/designer-vagina-fad-docto_n_116441.html)" surgery), resulting in a completely smooth-exteriored vulva. I find external labia minora attractive, and I don't get why the aesthetic preference these days is to have none. Cosmetic surgeons always describe their labia reduction as "rejuvenating," i.e. to make the vulva look like a young girl's, which to me is as creepy a thought as the insistence on no pubic hair. I would rather get a vulva with some labia showing on the outside like most women have than a totally featureless one, which just looks too artificial.

Wondering if the "designer vagina" fad means SRS surgeons are producing labialess vulvas by default in the belief that it's what women want nowadays. Before my SRS I intend to talk this over with the surgeon.

Mine looks and works fine.

Buffy

Just to be rid of it is fine, but why settle for just that. If that's really all you care about, there are cheaper alternatives to S.R.S. If I'm paying for it, I want as much as possible.

I agree with you Hypatia, I think too may women are looking at hubbies magazines.

Although I would want it all, should the oppurtunity arise to just remove everything I wouldn't hesitate in the least.

Quote from: Renate on May 15, 2009, 11:17:12 AM
If you are post-op, please construe the question as:

What were your expectations, what would you have been satisfied with?

I wanted a vagina that looked normal & worked like any other woman's & I got it.  Marci is a genius!!!

I would hope, pray and be willing to pay for, "As above, plus a genetic looking vulva."

But would happily settle for, "As above, plus an esthetically looking vulva."
 

Just to clear up the confusion on the "Get a new gyno" quote:

The trans character in TransAmerica says something to the effect of "Even a gynocologist won't be able to tell."

When Susan Moses interviewed Marcie Bowers on Susan's radio show, Susan asked Marcie about that quote, and Marcie replied, laughing, "If your gynocologist can't tell, you need a new gynocologist."

By choice I would have the closest thing to genetic I could get...

..but being realistic and considering my age, I would settle for freedom and something that works with minimal complication/revision risks.

Chrissty

What has age got to do with it?

Quote from: Hypatia on May 16, 2009, 10:20:43 AM
What has age got to do with it?

Simply that as we get older our ability to receive, and recover from surgery tends be affected. While I ultimately want surgery, I would take advice on any medical conditions found during assessment, and would probably not ask for riskier techniques for cosmetic detail only, if they were not recommended by my surgeon.

So yes..I'm prepared to compromise for safety, but would be overjoyed if I did not have to.

Chrissty

Mine looks great & I assume it works fine too.  I haven't had penetrative sex because I'm asexual & I'm not interested in sex.  Sex wasn't my motivation for surgery, congruency was.

Quote from: Matilda on May 17, 2009, 12:53:36 AM
LOL Are you saying that the reasons I've mentioned in parentheses are "valid" for having SRS/transitioning?  If you really believe that, you have my deepest sympathies!

No, I'm not saying that.  I'm saying you are wrong to think you know what is right for everybody else.  I'm saying you are wrong to present your opinion as if it was a fact.

I would also say that gender dysphoria is a totally valid reason to transition.  I would also say that, for some people, the ability to have their actual sex life match the sex life they want to have is an important factor.

If you want to have a better understanding of my opinion on this subject, you might want to look at my thread about motivational ratios.

Quote from: Leslie Ann on May 15, 2009, 12:44:42 PM
Just to be rid of it is fine, but why settle for just that. If that's really all you care about, there are cheaper alternatives to S.R.S. If I'm paying for it, I want as much as possible.

I agree with you Hypatia, I think too may women are looking at hubbies magazines.

Me too, on both these counts. ;D

- Kate

Quote from: Leslie Ann on May 15, 2009, 12:44:42 PM
I agree with you Hypatia, I think too may women are looking at hubbies magazines.

Interestingly enough, though while I had some care about the way my vulva looked prior to surgery, and had discussed it at length with her prior to surgery, I rarely even bother to look now.

I certainly have not forgotten it is there, trust me.  I still go to the bathroom after all.  But in the grand scheme of things, so very few people see it, even me (without a mirror!), that I really don't care that much now that I am post op.

If you sweep google or yahoo there is a site that is nothing but a series of vulvas, literally hundreds of photos.  Not intended to be pornographic, just a website for woman to show that we all come in different shapes and sizes.  I wish I could find it, but I'm sure someone may stumble over it.

I looked there many times prior to my operation and wondered how I would look.  How "natural" would I really be?  Would I want that follow up labiaplasty?

There are pictures there that look quite like me.  None are so don't even think that!

What I was getting at, is that pre-operative, it is a valid issue.  And something you really need to discuss with your surgeon and understand what really will occur.  But post-operative, it is very low on the list of things I worry about now.

Every woman is different, we are all varied in our beauty.  Take pride in who you are and the beauty will show.

Even there...

-Sandy

Quote from: Hypatia on May 15, 2009, 12:07:14 PMI have maybe some misgivings about the concept of surgically forming an "aesthetic looking" vulva, because of the recent fad in cosmetic surgery to remove external labia minora (it's called "labia minora reduction" a.k.a. "designer vagina (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/01/designer-vagina-fad-docto_n_116441.html)" surgery)

For example (http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2009/05/16/purity_myth/index1.html)--

Quote
Now, here's a fun topic: Vaginal tightening, labia reductions and "re-virginization" procedures are becoming increasingly popular. What makes the cost and pain worth it?

They're the fastest-growing form of plastic surgery in the U.S.

[Cringes] Is that true?

Yeah, I know -- I'm, like, crossing my legs, "Ahhh!" It seems to be a couple of things: One, a lot of women are going into doctors' offices with Playboy magazines and saying, "I want my vulva to look like that." There's also this trend of women getting it for their husbands or partners, to make themselves a virgin again for their 20th wedding anniversary.

What I find really fascinating is that in Africa and places outside the U.S. we call it female genital mutilation. But, because you pay $4,000 for it here, it's a designer vagina? It's ridiculous! It's just another way of fetishizing virginity and young vaginas.

That's interesting that women are going into doctors' offices with Playboy, because it seems like women have no other reference for what "normal" lady parts look like. It seems like the surgeries would only perpetuate that problem.

There was actually an OB/GYN organization that called the surgeries really misleading, because so many women don't have an understanding of what a normal vulva looks like. Women think if they don't have -- I don't want to get too explicit -- but if they don't have something that looks a certain way, that they are abnormal.

So my question is, has this vaginal plastic surgery trend influenced the style of vulvas in SRS? Is that the thing to do nowadays? Because I don't want mine done like a porn star's.

I have voted,  I would like mine to look natural.  I don't care if it's pleasing to the eye or anything, as long as it looks real from the outside lol

Quote from: Sandy on May 17, 2009, 08:49:42 AM
Interestingly enough, though while I had some care about the way my vulva looked prior to surgery, and had discussed it at length with her prior to surgery, I rarely even bother to look now.

I certainly have not forgotten it is there, trust me.  I still go to the bathroom after all.  But in the grand scheme of things, so very few people see it, even me (without a mirror!), that I really don't care that much now that I am post op.

If you sweep google or yahoo there is a site that is nothing but a series of vulvas, literally hundreds of photos.  Not intended to be pornographic, just a website for woman to show that we all come in different shapes and sizes.  I wish I could find it, but I'm sure someone may stumble over it.

I looked there many times prior to my operation and wondered how I would look.  How "natural" would I really be?  Would I want that follow up labiaplasty?

There are pictures there that look quite like me.  None are so don't even think that!

What I was getting at, is that pre-operative, it is a valid issue.  And something you really need to discuss with your surgeon and understand what really will occur.  But post-operative, it is very low on the list of things I worry about now.

Every woman is different, we are all varied in our beauty.  Take pride in who you are and the beauty will show.

Even there...

-Sandy

I was actually referring to the genetic women wanting a porn star looking vagina.

Am I curious how mine will look, of course, and I do intend to discuss it with my surgeon, but I am not that concerned as I have seen enough that in my opinion they pass scrutiny. As long as you pick a reputable surgeon I think you are in decent hands in terms of pass-ability down there, its only a matter of details it seems.

No surgeon has the skill to give me a uterus and ovaries, make it possible to bear children, never have to worry about HRT or dilation, change that Y chromosome to an X in every one of the cells in my body, give me back three decades of my life living as a son, a brother, a nephew, a boy, a man. Anything less is just doing the best I can with damaged goods.

The only reason I would have SRS is to be able to live life better than without, given all the costs. How much makes it worth it, I don't know. But I would be upset to lost sexual function. For now, the way the rest of me looks is a more important issue; for the time being, I can deal with having parts that don't belong, but that nobody but me ever sees.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on May 19, 2009, 01:19:04 AM
But I would be upset to lost sexual function.

There are many ways to have an O, not just that way.

So I've heard ... but none that have ever worked for me.  :-\ Then again, "good sex" and "orgasm" are not synonyms.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on May 19, 2009, 08:51:31 PM
So I've heard ... but none that have ever worked for me.  :-\ Then again, "good sex" and "orgasm" are not synonyms.

Not synonyms, but they do seem fairly close to one another. Maybe first cousins? :laugh:

Very happy with my results.  If I hadn't had GRS I'd have cut it out myself.  I know I'd have bled to death but I wouldn't have cared. Who cares if I can't have kids? I can always adopt.  Who cares if I had a tormented childhood? That's the past.  Who cares if I was born intersexed?  I'm me for the very first bloody time in my life & that's what counts.

Quote from: Nichole on May 19, 2009, 09:22:56 PM
Not synonyms, but they do seem fairly close to one another. Maybe first cousins? :laugh:

Isn't there laws against that?!?!  :laugh: :laugh:

Nobody mentioned :

1) Getting one's important documents such as birth certificate, drivers license, social security, health insurance, medical records, and any other records dependent on getting GRS.

2) As much safety as possible in women's restrooms and locker rooms

3) Access to homeless shelters, hurrican shelters, recovery programs, and other inpatient care facilities as your gender of choice. Less cognitive dissonance during a hospital stay and less need to explain your status.

4) If you get arrested, you don't get locked up with those who identify as your birth gender.

5) Much less tension when going through airport security.

---

Post Merge: May 21, 2009, 08:17:08 PM

---

my first thought when waking up from GRS was now I'm f*****g legal in George Bush's Amerika.

---

Post Merge: May 21, 2009, 09:20:03 PM

---

After GRS, I realized I could be in Peace Marches without the fear going to the male lock-up even for a night

Quote from: Matilda on May 15, 2009, 01:50:52 PM
I am extremely pleased with my results.. I have a very sensate clitoris & vagina, enough vaginal depth, O's aren't a problem, my vagina is functional in every sense of the word, and my vulva is aesthetically beautiful.  There's no reason to complain at all.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss161%2Fmatilda23%2F061.gif&hash=8f2301193b0dc73bb2e3c64f938f2048ea1a0591)

I think this sums up what I'll be hoping for.

not too much to ask is it?

Sure...congruency is reason number one...but denying that the other reasons are valid is very narrow minded.

Perhaps because what you mentioned was pretty darned obvious

Obvious is anything but these days.

Actually religios fundamentalists make more damage those who have undegone or will undergone SRS than to others.  :(
For example telling to fully transtioned woman that ''sex is a birthgift from God, so you are a man''.

post-op.  bowers' girl.  everything looks & works just fine.