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what is your definition of it? not the boring old dictionary definition, but something that is more concrete.

please do not involve religion in your answer, thanks.

For people who do believe, which seems to be a fair amount, its impossible to separate morality from religion.  Just sayin.

Morality is a generally agree on system of what is right and what is wrong. But I prefer what Robert Heinlein said about morality: "Don't let your sense of morality prevent you from doing what you know is right."

Morality is leaving the smallest footprint and tiniest impression possible.

In other words, mind your own damn business and let others mind theirs.

Its what ethics misses.

In view words? This here:

Bide The Wiccan Law Ye Must,
In Perfect Love, In Perfect Trust.
Eight Words The Wiccan Rede Fulfill:
An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will.
And Ever Mind The Rule Of Three:
What Ye Send Out, Comes Back To Thee.
Follow This With Mind And Heart,
And Merry Ye Meet, And Merry Ye Part.
http://www.dragonwinds.com/phoenix/three.shtml (http://www.dragonwinds.com/phoenix/three.shtml)

Morality is an internal sense of what is right and what is wrong.
The thing is however, that morality is simultaneously an individual and a social construct.
It's learned, subjective and can shift to allow us to do things we would otherwise consider amoral.

What is it with wiccans and pirates and the way they say 'Ye'. I heard from some dubious source that ye was actually said the, they just wrote it down ye (something to do with printing presses and not having the letter 'thorn' which sounded like a 'th' and was ultimately replaced by th).

Oh, morality.

I think there is a biological morality - the morality of stuff which benefits the species and helps you pass on as many of your genes as you can in the long run. You could say it is imoral to act in a way which reduces the chances of your species surviving in the long run. This is a pretty hard and fast rule, yet somewhat complicated to inact.

What I think of morality is pretty much what miniar said. But I think there is a biological componant that is not learnt, rather it is instinctive and sometimes people are missing this componant or it fails to be triggered cause of their upbringing.

Then we can be like the lemmings when we over populate the earth's resources we can run off a cliff.

Using Wica is bringing religion into it.

Quote from: tekla on May 25, 2009, 09:57:29 PM
Using Wica is bringing religion into it.

I think wicca is like the pirates code, more a set of guidelines than religion...

Wicca is a neopagan, nature-based religion. It was popularised in 1954 by Gerald Gardner, a retired British civil servant


Former military chaplain Don Larsen, near the circle where his fellow ... to become the first Wiccan chaplain in the U.S. armed forces.



Smells like religion to me.

at least I still have the pirates code... :(

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Quote from: tekla on May 25, 2009, 09:57:29 PM
Using Wica is bringing religion into it.

But what if their definition of 'morality' corresponds to what's written in the Wicca Rede? Then it's a perfectly acceptable answer, is it not?

It's not like they were pushing their beliefs onto you, as often happens when discussion turns to either politics or religion, so taking issue with it is really just unnessicary.

As someone with no morals and only an intellectual (not an emotional) understanding of 'right' and 'wrong' - because really, everything depends on circumstance and perception anyway - I define 'morality' as the culturally accepted definition of 'right' and 'wrong'. (killing is morally 'wrong', giving to charity is morally 'right', etc. however, this can chage depending - for instance, if the person you killed was a criminal, it is usually considered less 'wrong' than if you killed a child.)

Then it's a perfectly acceptable answer, is it not?

No, the rules - as stated in the very first post said please do not involve religion in your answer, thanks.

Morality is what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. Its about more than survival of the fittest, or the notion of kill or be killed. More specifically, morality can only be defined between sentient beings. Its what allows us to cohabit together while ensuring the survival of the species. While the rules of morality vary from one social group to another, the basic tenant of conscious thought and self awareness remain unchanged.

See, not one mention of religion...  :D

Morality is what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom

That, and sitcoms, beer, and plastic surgery.

Quote from: tekla on May 25, 2009, 11:48:36 PM
That, and sitcoms, beer, and plastic surgery.

What, you never saw a bear crack open a brewski and watch Cheers while worrying about the cellulose on his thighs?  :laugh:

Not since I radically reduced the amount of acid I did.

Quote from: Stacy Brahm on May 25, 2009, 11:50:45 PM
worrying about the cellulose on his thighs?

Would this be a gummy bear?

Quote from: tekla on May 25, 2009, 11:36:57 PM
Then it's a perfectly acceptable answer, is it not?

No, the rules - as stated in the very first post said please do not involve religion in your answer, thanks.

I hadn't thought in religion when I published the Wiccan rede. I wanted nothing else than to express with lyrical English, what I think about morality. My English is rather terrible, as you know!
To me it means that I act morally if I become to make thoughts about the consequences of my action for myself, and other living beings. If I ask myself whether the decision which I want to make, or the "morality" I would follow, could damage or ham someone else.
We aren't alone in the world, and this we should always keep before our eyes!!!

No, that was in the original request, one reason I have not written on it as I find it all but impossible to separate religion from morality.

Quote from: tekla on May 25, 2009, 11:36:57 PM
Then it's a perfectly acceptable answer, is it not?

No, the rules - as stated in the very first post said please do not involve religion in your answer, thanks.

thanks tekla :laugh:

Hey, no problem, I can read - can't do much else, but I can read.

Morality definitely has something to do with the survival of the human race.  Because you're human, and you care about your survival, and humans are communal creatures, which means we survive because we work together, which means that the survival of the community is moral.

That's just the tip of the iceberg though, that's just one thing that's moral.  That's a particular, I think, and not a universal.

Rationality obviously has something to do with the universal.  So...... Kant?  The categorical imperative? "I shall only act on that maxim which I can simultaneously will into universal law."  Ie, I can't lie because a society built on liars can't stand because of a lack of trust.

But then there's utilitarianism... greatest good for the largest number of people.

Damn!  This is hard.  I think that's because nobody's done it completely yet, and everyone who did hasn't answered it fully, and I can't claim to have the answer to this, but we should keep looking through dialogue.

I tend to see morals as being universal truths.  Basically, the best way to do X for all existence.  I don't see morals as being situational or relative.  Of course, how do we know what these universal memes are?  We could only know from something that knew everything - otherwise its views of what is universal is inherently limited.  In my mind then, morals are impossible without something Absolute to dictate them to us - otherwise they would be relative.

The best approximation to morals therefore is doing what "feels" right - but, as already pointed out, this is inherently non-universal.

If you define morals differently than I do, so be it.

Morality is subjective.  That subjectivity may not be unique - others may share at least some of the same moral views.  Consensus does not change the subjectivity of it.

This also means morality is mutable.  What was felt to be morally correct at one time can be considered reprehensible later.

Now who fancies popping down to the town square and stoning some adulterers? :)

QuoteMorality is subjective.

That is true, but some morality is based on continuing the human race something most people subjectively agree on.

Quote from: lisagurl on June 07, 2009, 10:08:15 AM
That is true, but some morality is based on continuing the human race something most people subjectively agree on.

Well, they may agree to continue the human race... but given man's penchant to define who is "human" they also choose to extinguish various groups of the human race as well all in the name of "morality". So I dont think that exactly covers it...

Quotethey also choose to extinguish various groups of the human race as well all in the name of "morality".

Usually in the name of "Religion", there is a big difference between morality and dogma.

Quote from: lisagurl on June 07, 2009, 10:31:24 AM
Usually in the name of "Religion", there is a big difference between morality and dogma.

Erhm, I dont think the Nazis were very interested in religion, they were driven by some "moral imperative" to promote the master race...  >:( >:-)

Morality is not based on the continuation of the human race. You can have a moral dilemma over something entirely unrelated.

Further, the continuation of the human race, or more parochially ones own genetic lineage (or even ones own life) are motivated by survival/propagation instincts, not conscious thought that this is the moral thing to do.

Morality is not a single-issue attribute but is more related to empathic response.  Our negative empathic and emotional response to an observed action is more likely to classify that action as immoral.

Strangling kittens is something you might consider immoral, because you have a strong emotional and empathic reaction to the suffering of the kitten.  Some people don't have those same reactions (usually the person carrying out the action) and so don't discern any moral problem with it. 

Perceived immorality isn't just a symptom of psychiatric disorder either. Slavery is considered immoral by most now but, of course, we know that wasn't always the case.

Even if you want to overlay morality onto the continuation of the human race, let's consider some of the issues that various groups cite as threats to that continuation: nuclear proliferation, global warming, genetic engineering/cloning, pandemic viral outbreak, etc..

How we tackle these issues may include moral decisions, the genetic engineering ethics one in particular.  I am not persuaded that a majority moral consensus has been reached on issues like the above.

Quote from: Stacy Brahm on June 07, 2009, 09:59:20 PM
Erhm, I dont think the Nazis were very interested in religion, they were driven by some "moral imperative" to promote the master race...  >:( >:-)

QuoteHitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

Quote from: Natasha on May 25, 2009, 11:58:02 AMwhat is your definition of it? not the boring old dictionary definition, but something that is more concrete.

1) Keeping a promise, even when it turns out to be more than you bargained for.

2) Telling the truth, even when it's inconvenient.

3) Paying off your debts, even if you have to work overtime or get a second job.

4) Being loyal to your friends and close family, even when they are not at their best.

5) Keeping your mouth closed when you realize some embarrassing secret about another person (MtF TS).

6) Stopping yourself when you have the impulse to lash out.

7) Protecting innocent people from aggression, even when it could result in injury to yourself.

Or anything else on that vein.

Quoteplease do not involve religion in your answer, thanks.

Actually, I have known a few Christians who believe very firmly that any act that is not specifically condemned by the Bible is absolutely permissible. They are extremely unpleasant people to be around.

Quote from: Sigma Prime on June 26, 2009, 02:07:59 AM
1) Keeping a promise, even when it turns out to be more than you bargained for.

2) Telling the truth, even when it's inconvenient.

3) Paying off your debts, even if you have to work overtime or get a second job.

4) Being loyal to your friends and close family, even when they are not at their best.

5) Keeping your mouth closed when you realize some embarrassing secret about another person (MtF TS).

6) Stopping yourself when you have the impulse to lash out.

7) Protecting innocent people from aggression, even when it could result in injury to yourself.

Or anything else on that vein.
Actually, I have known a few Christians who believe very firmly that any act that is not specifically condemned by the Bible is absolutely permissible. They are extremely unpleasant people to be around.

Then what is ethics?  I think you have them confused.

Quote from: lisagurl on June 26, 2009, 08:19:30 AM
Then what is ethics?

A branch of philosophy.

QuoteI think you...

Oh?

morality is keeping your blouse dry.

Respect your neighbor. 
Give them dignity. 
Protect those you love. 
Love your neighbor as you would yourself.
If you can't say anything nice about someone, keep your month shut.
Respect yourself. 
Give yourself dignity

Janet. 

QuoteRespect your neighbor. 
Give them dignity. 
Protect those you love. 
Love your neighbor as you would yourself.
If you can't say anything nice about someone, keep your month shut.
Respect yourself. 
Give yourself dignity

And the hell with those slaves half way around the world that make all the products we consume?

Morality is each individuals beleifs in what is right and what is wrong. I beleive ethics and morality are different. For example, rape, pedophilia, etc. are immoral. Embezzling anothers money is unethical. BTW both my exspouse and ex GF think crossdressing is immoral. What?

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Post Merge: June 28, 2009, 03:53:18 PM

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Janet Lynn, In your recent profile photo you have a happy glow about you. Are you in love?

Quote from: lisagurl on June 28, 2009, 03:47:35 PM
And the hell with those slaves half way around the world that make all the products we consume?

Then don't buy those products.  But humankind has always preyed on it's fellow man in the name of morality.  The Spaniards with the "heathen" Mayan, Aztecs, Seminole, and a host of others that were here in North America.  The Christians and the Middle East during the Crusades.  The witch trials during the Inquisition.  Slavery in America and elsewhere. The Holocaust. Stonewall. 

Morality in really the Majority group think to downplay and dehumanize another.  Morality must be a personal set of choices,  based on your own set of values.

Quote from: Genevieve Swann on June 28, 2009, 03:50:51 PM

Janet Lynn, In your recent profile photo you have a happy glow about you. Are you in love?

Yes and if you haven't heard the lucky lady is above.

Cute.  And I wouldn't want you to go, I would rather kill you with love for a very very long time.

It will be one heck of a ride.  Just hold on tight.

I have to say...
A lot of the replies seem to be an answer to the question "what is moral?" and not the question "what is morality?"

Quote from: Miniar on June 28, 2009, 06:15:21 PM
I have to say...
A lot of the replies seem to be an answer to the question "what is moral?" and not the question "what is morality?"

That is because people avoid morality. Morality requires that you question everyone's behavior and find out what is really going on. You accept the responsibility to learn,  point out the issues and change them. Not many people want to put morality at the top of their list.

I think I'll just stick with honour.

Quote from: lisagurl on June 28, 2009, 08:09:03 PM
That is because people avoid morality. Morality requires that you question everyone's behavior and find out what is really going on. You accept the responsibility to learn,  point out the issues and change them. Not many people want to put morality at the top of their list.

... this is exactly what I meant.
What you replied has nothing to do with what "morality" the concept is but everything to do with what to do with it. You talk about "morals" not about what morality is.

Defining the term "morality" does not mean defining which morals are more moral than other morals and which morals are correct and why. It means explaining what "morality" is in and of itself.

The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.
Virtuous conduct.
A rule or lesson in moral conduct.