Susan's Place Transgender Resources

A small article I wrote....

What makes a man?

I am a man.  A trans man.  I should have biologically been born a man because that is what I am.  But I wasn't.  I was scientifically speaking born female, only female does not explain who I am.  To anyone who would question the validity of this I say to you it is not a choice.  At the essence of me is a male identity, a male soul. 

I understand that some people may not fully comprehend this even more may choose not too because it clashes with their own beliefs or dare I say it deep seated prejudice.  This is especially true for some non-LGBT folk whose upbringing in a predominantly
heterosexual cisgendered world plays an undeniable role in causing them to form immutable and rigid ideas about gender and sexuality that are incorrect, that cannot and do not explain everyones unique diversity.

This is not to suggest of course that all LGBT folks have an exclusive monopoly when it comes to understanding gay, lesbian and trans people however it is true that the LGBT community itself lends itself to greater understanding of these issues as naturally they directly affect us and those we care about, thus we seek to understand them.

Those uneducated on trans and queer issues are often far too happy to jump to their own conclusions especially if they support their own prejudices.  A typical example is the blinkered view that someone born with a female body is not a man nor can they ever truly be.
Yet what defines a man?  His penis?  There are biologically born men without just as their are plenty of trans guys who with the aid of phalloplasty now have
a phallus.  Hormones?

Plenty of bio guys suffer from testosterone deficiency or even have testosterone levels that fall out of the normal male range because they are considered too low. If this is the case transmen after testosterone therapy correct their hormonal balance so that their testosterone levels fall perfectly within the normal male range.  So even scientifically speaking hormonally at least they can be considered male.

Even ones appearance cannot be taken at face value alone.  Whilst pre-transition some trans guys at least will have a hard time passing as male due to their feminine features, once they have undergone hormonal therapy and masculinization occurs they will be virtually undetectable to the naked eye from their non trans brothers.

So it really comes down to a question of identity.  After all why on earth would someone identify as male if they are not male.
It is what we are after all not what our genitalia say we are that dictates who we are.

Nice article, milliontoone. I should show this to my family.

Why should I have to live as a woman and not a man just because my body is female? This isn't the stone ages anymore. We live in a developed, well-populated world for christsakes. There is no need for everyone to live a certain way because of what their genitalia looks like!

cheers for reading, glad you enjoyed...

i like this  ;D

(yay, i get to quote Hellboy!)

I also like the end quote of the first Hellboy movie: "What makes a man a man? A friend of mine once wondered. Is it his origins? The way he comes to life? I don't think so. It's the choices he makes. Not how he starts things, but how he decides to end them." - agent Myers

There's a big difference in what makes someone a man and what makes someone male.  You seem to be interchanging the two.

Well, castlevania has an answer for that.

"What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!"

Quote from: milliontoone on June 09, 2009, 01:23:23 PM
Yet what defines a man?  His penis?

You'd be surprised how many people would say "yes" to that question.

Having successfully spent over half a century in the male world, I can tell you there is a HUGE insecurity in the that world about being a man.  Look at the ED ads.  The message sent is if you can't get it up she won't be happy and subsequently you won't be a man.  The ads typify society's attitude about what makes a man.

Look at the pressure a man and a woman have to procreate.  "Carrying on the family name", "saving the family jewels" and so on.  It's all about what's between your legs and it better work!

But we all know who we are is determined by our individual personalities and, as far as I know, that's stored in the brain, the same place our identified gender is.  But people believe what they see and tend to avoid trying to figure out what they can't see.  If it's too difficult to wrap their brains around it, they criticize and/or reject it.

It will be some time before trans people have what gays have today (and they are still struggling) because there's not enough of us and so many are still in the closet.  But in the mean time we have to keep doing whatever it takes to increase awareness and encourage education.

Julie

Thanks for reading guys, some interesting responses here.

Julie Marie I totally agree unfortunately this is how some people see it and it really should not be this way.  It's incredibly backwards thinking.  I do think that as Trans people we are sometimes able to more clearly see the incredible stupidity behind stereotypes than most.

And LOL ;D @ castlevania.....

Agreed. The biological lines are being blurred, and we have too much power as a species. And if it's male fertility that counts, society would be better off discouraging reproduction. We're growing exponentially and eventually it will end in a population crash.

I agree. A man can no longer be defined by his physical characteristics.

SilverFloe

Important points there. I like, Million.

I enjoyed reading your article. It was wonderfully written and seemed well thought out.


The quote "What is [a] man? A miserable little pile of secrets" is often falsely attributed to Malraux. The actual quote, "Man is what he hides, a wretched little pile of secrets," is an (until recently) obscure aphorism in the psychiatric community, to which Malraux replied, "Man is what he achieves."

thank you me dears for reading ;D

I suppose I can answer this, despite being a mtf. I've lived the majority of my life as a guy, hoping that will change, so I might be able to add some enlightenment to this issue.

Despite the fact that society is changing, the traditional role of a man is to provide for his family and see that they want for nothing. This often involves personal sacrifices on his part in the form of time and the money he earns. He is supposed to feel good about doing this, since (traditionally), the place of a woman is at home cooking and stuff. People still seem to accept these societal norms even though they don't really apply anymore, and that really means they do apply. However, they do not necessarily have to apply to you.

Typically, men are attracted to women because of their looks and personality. Women are attracted to men because of their social status and money. This was fine for a number of centuries as it enabled women to find those who were more likely to care for their children, thus ensuring the survival of the species. Now that women have more say in their own lives, though, we (by that I mean us women) are finding out that social status is a pretty poor qualifier to use as a determining factor to find a mate.

So then, the question is not "what is a man?" but "what should be a man?" A man should be someone who understands, who does not expect slave labor out of his woman just because society tells him this is the way it should be. A man should be someone who shares in a lot of the chores and doesn't balk if the woman feels tired after a long day of work and just wants to relax. A man should be someone who is willing to spend money on his woman, but also plan for their future. In short, a man should be everything a woman needs in her life, as she is trying to be everything that he needs in his life. If more relationships worked this way, there would be a lot fewer divorces, I think.

Quote from: Kara on June 12, 2009, 05:15:53 PM
I suppose I can answer this, despite being a mtf. I've lived the majority of my life as a guy, hoping that will change, so I might be able to add some enlightenment to this issue.

Despite the fact that society is changing, the traditional role of a man is to provide for his family and see that they want for nothing. This often involves personal sacrifices on his part in the form of time and the money he earns. He is supposed to feel good about doing this, since (traditionally), the place of a woman is at home cooking and stuff. People still seem to accept these societal norms even though they don't really apply anymore, and that really means they do apply. However, they do not necessarily have to apply to you.

Typically, men are attracted to women because of their looks and personality. Women are attracted to men because of their social status and money. This was fine for a number of centuries as it enabled women to find those who were more likely to care for their children, thus ensuring the survival of the species. Now that women have more say in their own lives, though, we (by that I mean us women) are finding out that social status is a pretty poor qualifier to use as a determining factor to find a mate.

So then, the question is not "what is a man?" but "what should be a man?" A man should be someone who understands, who does not expect slave labor out of his woman just because society tells him this is the way it should be. A man should be someone who shares in a lot of the chores and doesn't balk if the woman feels tired after a long day of work and just wants to relax. A man should be someone who is willing to spend money on his woman, but also plan for their future. In short, a man should be everything a woman needs in her life, as she is trying to be everything that he needs in his life. If more relationships worked this way, there would be a lot fewer divorces, I think.

This is an extremely Western view.

that's all fine and dandy but remember not every man wants a lady ;D

Quote from: milliontoone on June 12, 2009, 05:37:19 PM
that's all fine and dandy but remember not every man wants a lady ;D

I know, I was just making broad generalizations.  :icon_archery:

Quote from: Mister on June 12, 2009, 05:36:47 PM
This is an extremely Western view.

It's not as though it gets any better in Eastern views.

Sorry to be non-PC about it, but a woman cannot expect both chivalry and equality. Either you are equal, or you are not.

A man, in my opinion, should first and foremost be true to himself. To conduct himself with honesty and integrity, to take responsibility for his actions, and to build a better future for himself (either alone, or with others).

Personally, I see gender roles as absolutely useless, outmoded concept. I'm surprised anyone around here takes any heed of them whatsoever. They are just another arbitrary gender "box" in which to place us all. Roles are temporary and fluid, they do not define us.

All too often I see the wholesale adoption of a rigid gender role used as a form of affirmation. It's sad really, as we as people are so much more.

QuotePersonally, I see gender roles as absolutely useless, outmoded concept. I'm surprised anyone around here takes any heed of them whatsoever. They are just another arbitrary gender "box" in which to place us all. Roles are temporary and fluid, they do not define us.

True but Hetero Cisgendered peeps seem to love 'em  :laugh:

Quote from: Teknoir on June 13, 2009, 02:08:21 AM
Sorry to be non-PC about it, but a woman cannot expect both chivalry and equality. Either you are equal, or you are not.

A man, in my opinion, should first and foremost be true to himself. To conduct himself with honesty and integrity, to take responsibility for his actions, and to build a better future for himself (either alone, or with others).

Personally, I see gender roles as absolutely useless, outmoded concept. I'm surprised anyone around here takes any heed of them whatsoever. They are just another arbitrary gender "box" in which to place us all. Roles are temporary and fluid, they do not define us.

All too often I see the wholesale adoption of a rigid gender role used as a form of affirmation. It's sad really, as we as people are so much more.

As long as people think that gender roles apply, then what it really means is they do apply. Of course, they don't have to, but a lot of people don't think out of the box. It's a lot easier and less risky to go with an opinion that someone else has come up with than think on your own. In my experience, people simply do not want to take responsibility for their own ideas. Why do you think organized religion is still around to this day?

There are so many ways to interpret the question "What makes a man?", and I think we've all interpreted it a little differently. Some have thought "What is a man's role?", others "What makes a man different from a woman / child / traffic cone?".

I think there's as many answers to those questions as there are people in the world.

Quote from: Kara on June 13, 2009, 09:57:26 AM
As long as people think that gender roles apply, then what it really means is they do apply.

The previously defined gender roles seem to be largely ignored in the day to day lives of most people (at least in Western society), to the point where most people no longer neatly fit, yet society still rabidly clings to the idea that they exist!  :laugh:

Joke's on them... the "nuclear family" that so many people think is "the norm", the basis of our society, and the template for gender roles, was nothing more than a fabricated piece of propaganda in the first place ;).

Man (tm)... brought to you by the RAND Corporation!  :laugh:

I suppose my experience has been different than yours, because I've seen nothing other than the right-wing Christianized family unit over and over. It would be nice to encounter something different, though.

Quote from: Heartwood on June 09, 2009, 07:48:51 PM
Well, castlevania has an answer for that.

"What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!"

I LOL'd

But yeah..good post milliontoone

Nice post.

Define what is a man and what is a women. I think we we need to identify our society. I suggest we first need to define what is human. We then may wish to divide humanity into genders. In some society's this is very important. In others it is not.
What is a man? The opposite to a woman. What is a woman? The opposite to a man. Can men love men? Of course. Can women love women. Of course.
What do I define as opposite? Not sure. Mmmm
Comments welcome

Cindy