Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Man kills girlfriend of 2 years after learning she used to be a man

http://www.mosnews.com/weird/2009/06/23/transsexual/ (http://www.mosnews.com/weird/2009/06/23/transsexual/)
6/23/09

A Russian man has killed the girlfriend that he lived with for two years after finding out that she once was a man.

Patton was right, we should have nuked the USSR when we could have.

Quote from: tekla on June 23, 2009, 05:20:16 PM
Patton was right, we should have nuked the USSR when we could have.

ugh...i hope you are just kidding.

This is such a sad story. Heartbreaking.

Patton wasn't kidding.  Patton was NEVER kidding.  And, in the end, he was right.  Think of the money we would have saved.

And some things just need to be killed with fire.  Lots of fire.

However I do give them points for the "Best Russian Ladies" section right next to the story.  Had that guy only read that ad.

I mean we are Americans, we will attack and kill you on Christmas if that works.

Quote from: tekla on June 23, 2009, 06:38:20 PM

And some things just need to be killed with fire.  Lots of fire.

I mean we are Americans, we will attack and kill you on Christmas if that works.

Hmmmm, Someone is in a bit of a mood  :P I suppose if I said I had Russian ancestry, you'd want to kill me too  :P :P

Tekla-  You are such a kick!!!

I am so sick of hearing these stories, about how the man's reputation and heterosextivity were ruined by this knowledge.

I have a girlfriend, a post-op, and she is on all these dating sites and gets dates with all these men, and her policy is to tell them she is TS after a few dates, and 100% of them so far leave when they get the news. 

The foolishness of the male tribe is astounding  (transmen excluded, of course).

And don't overlook the "Miss Russia 2009 Nude Photos Published" or the "Russian To Receive $30K For Finding Baby Mammoth Body" articles either.

I used to use the Christmas example, i.e.  "would you attack people and kill them on Christmas morning if you knew you could win?"  And the students were in absolute horror.  I mean, an outright slaughter on the day of the birth of the baby jesus.  But of course, that is the most famous moment of the Revolutionary War, Washington crossing the Delaware and all.  Oh, yeah, in all that patriotic fervor, and all, we often forget that what old George had in mind was the hired mercenaries (Hessians, the Blackwater of its day) being German, and thinking they were safe - what kind of idiot would cross an ice filled river in wooden boats, AT NIGHT? - got drunk off their ass on Xmas eve, making them easy prey on that glorious morning.  It was a turkey shoot as they say.

Of course, despite that, or maybe because of it, most of the Hessians stayed in the US after the war rather than going back to Germany, giving us such stupid city names as King of Prussia Pennsylvania.

And I don't think that Patton would have attacked the USSR, what he had in mind was doing a leapfrog on the Red Army - at that point far, far to the East of the Russian border, dependent on huge supply lines - and declaring victory.  It might have worked.

I'm tired of hearing such awful stories about violence against us. Here in Germany they was such a case several years ago. A man killed her girlfriend (she want to left him) and cut hr in several pices and put her death body into a trunk. As he was asked by the police, he said that he had kill her because she was once a man. What should this be? GAY PANIC? After 12 years they know each other and he visit her after her Sex change surgery? Germans are sometimes stupid, but not so stupid as you thought, murderer!
Right now I work on a PowerPoint presentation for a meeting in October for TG people in Berlin. It goes about TRANSPHOBIA.

Yes, but all sorts of women, not just trans women, meet horrible ends, and by the way, a few guys too.

You're fairly well educated Tekla. So I am sure you know that most of Europe, including Russia is inter-related. It was the melting pot long before the U.S. came about. Why was the city of St.Petersburg created?

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 23, 2009, 08:13:49 PM
You're fairly well educated Tekla. So I am sure you know that most of Europe, including Russia is inter-related. It was the melting pot long before the U.S. came about. Why was the city of St.Petersburg created?

Because Peter the Great needed a Baltic port for trade purposes and also wanted to learn to drain a swamp.

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 23, 2009, 07:02:55 PM
Hmmmm, Someone is in a bit of a mood  :P I suppose if I said I had Russian ancestry, you'd want to kill me too  :P :P

I don't generally consider advocating genocide to be "a bit of a mood."

Quote from: Lisbeth on June 23, 2009, 11:35:49 PM
I don't generally consider advocating genocide to be "a bit of a mood."

You trying to put the kee-bosh on all the fun, Lisbeth? :)

Quote from: Nichole on June 23, 2009, 11:38:16 PM
You trying to put the kee-bosh on all the fun, Lisbeth? :)

Ya, I'm a regular party-pooper.

Quote from: Virginia87106 on June 23, 2009, 07:03:07 PMI have a girlfriend, a post-op, and she is on all these dating sites and gets dates with all these men, and her policy is to tell them she is TS after a few dates, and 100% of them so far leave when they get the news.

...*sigh*

Quote from: tekla on June 23, 2009, 05:20:16 PM
Patton was right, we should have nuked the USSR when we could have.

We didn't have nukes yet, and Patton probably didn't know they were in the pipeline.  But he probably was right.

Clearly this is a sick murder but then advocating nuking millions of innocent people is even far more ridiculous, childish, and lunatic. Plenty of these stories also happen in the U.S. My recommendation for post-op TSs who want to enter heterosexual relationships is to be up front in the beginning. Additionally, and this goes for anyone, consider the quality of the person you are dating and re-consider if they are demonstrating violent tendencies.

QuoteMy recommendation for post-op TSs who want to enter heterosexual relationships is to be up front in the beginning.

Why should someone post op have to? 

My attempt at an objective argument is:
Post-op girls should be up front in the beginning because that information is obviously very important to a lot of men out there. If they are bothered so deeply by a post-op's past then some could argue that it is unethical to withhold something that is very likely to so greatly bother them.
Of course the counter-argument of "it's none of their damn business!" is also very valid  ;)

What I believe personally is that it is just plain safer to disclose that information sooner rather than later since I would think that a negative reaction would be far stronger, and more likely to be violent, if the relationship has progressed for quite a while. The man would then feel deceived on top of all the other things running through his head, and that is just adding gasoline to the fire.

Why should someone post op have to?

I take a crack at that.  I think its because when you fall in love with someone and want to spend the rest of your life with them you are buying a total package, not just the out days.  Most people like their lovers past to a degree.  They want to go back and find out about things they shared, did in common, and both relate to - the want to know they came from the same place to a degree.  My GF sometimes asks me to tell her a story from when I was little.  What exactly am I going to say?  Because if not the truth, the other option is pretty much a full cloth invention. 

Let's just assume here for a moment that I'm an FtM like Mister.  So I'm telling stories about that Little League game where I did a pretty good job pitching, or building the soapbox racer with my dad, or how my friends and I had hid a couple of Playboy mags out behind the garage, about working on cars, doing stupid little macho tricks (when I was in HS you were not 'one of the - really stupid - guys' until you jumped from the Hacienda Bridge, about 40 feet above 15 feet of water).  You know, all that stupid guy stuff.  And there were the awkward first dates, the even more awkward first attempts at sex with Suzie in the back of my Ford, and other growing up stuff.

Yet, none of it's true, far from having the 'happy normal boyhood' I'm talking about above, none of it happened, and in reality I was a very miserable little girl. That is a huge difference - that coming at something like life and relationships from a perspective of having a happy or miserable childhood.

In fact, if its not how you see it, then it's for sure how the other person will see it when they find out - they fell in love with a lie, not a real person.  A fabrication, not a reality. 

How do you explain how it is that you don't have one single photo, report card or anything else from your childhood?  Why there is not a single person around who knew you when? 

I'm not sure that on rare occasions that some guys might even go along with a TS GF, but when they find out one of the things they are finding out is, in the immortal words of Sam Kinnison, that you're not just a TS, you're also a 'lying little bitch.'  And all guys have had at least one girl like that, and knowing even just one is way too much as it is.  Add to that, the persistent and nagging feeling "What else are they not telling me?" that's going to haunt them for the rest of the relationship with you.

There are no shortage of posts in here that talk - at length - about the need for communication, honesty and sharing as part of a good relationship, and no matter how good you are at it, its all just a pose, its never a reality, so, in reality, you're relationship has none of those things in it.

I can see where that can be disappointing when you find it out. It's hardly a reason for murder or violence, but it's all the reason one would need to hit the road and never look back.

I can attest to the fact that it is better to be open and dealing with those "gaps" in your past.  My in-laws, before they were my in-laws were of course very inquisitive about me.  My wife (at the time girlfriend) knew about my transition, but I asked her not to discuss it with anyone - but rather let me do it.  Well, her parents understandably quizzed her about me to the degree they could when I asked her to marry me, but they often remarked to her that they felt something was missing - like a gap of many years post high school they felt they knew nothing at all about me. 

Eventually they found out on their own on the internet (damn me for being "out and proud") and were incredibly hurt.  Granted, it wasn't their business and I could have made that argument, it didn't change the fact that they felt deceived and betrayed.  I took as much time as I could explaining it to them, but it didn't matter, all the good that could have come about by my being upfront with them (or at least telling them before 3 years of marriage had passed) was superseded by the sadness they felt over being deceived.  They also became a bit paranoid that I had other "big secrets" or that my relationship with my wife was doomed from the start (they are of the persuasion that most TS do not beat this and lack faith in me to maintain my male-ness).

We have since moved past it, but I doubt all the wounds are healed.  The point is though, if my wife's parents could feel such sadness over someone who transitioned then DE-transitioned, I can only imagine what a partner would feel after finding out the truth on their own.

Personally I haven't told anyone about myself save for my wife.  She on the other hand has told lots of people.  I don't really believe it's anyone's business, but it is probably much safer to tell someone upfront.

I remember (I think it was on Oprah) when I was younger, hearing that a poor girl who had transitioned very early thanks to her mother's support (I believe she had SRS a age 14 or 15) was out partying with "friends" who got drunk, and her and one of the friends had sex.  Shortly there after this group supposedly "found-out" that she used to be a boy (I believe it was later revealed that they already knew) so they invited her BACK to the same cottage, where they gang-raped her and killed her to "protect" their heterosexuality.

It's messed up crap like this that I hate all men (trans-excluded)

I hate all men

Good luck with that.  I find it too much weight to drag around to even hate one person, hating half the population must be a very degrading deal.

Well it's not like I hate them personally, more like the concept.  I have a few male friends that I like, I just really don't like the concept of men in general that's all

http://newsfromrussia.com/society/stories/24-06-2009/107843-sex_change-0 (http://newsfromrussia.com/society/stories/24-06-2009/107843-sex_change-0)

Back in the bad old cold war days anything printed in Pravda was assumed to be a lie.  Now it looks like any other tabloid.  Progress?

Quote from: tekla on June 24, 2009, 07:24:25 AM
Why should someone post op have to?

How do you explain how it is that you don't have one single photo, report card or anything else from your childhood?  Why there is not a single person around who knew you when? 

"I take a crack at that" I have nothing from my childhood. Nothing but bad memories. I left the day after I graduated high school. I called nobody, I said goodbye to nobody, I left with nothing. I wanted nothing more than to leave that city and state and get going to a fresh start with a clean slate. It is possible. And I don't have to lie as to why I don't have anything.

Quote from: tekla on June 24, 2009, 08:16:53 AM
I hate all men

I would be agree with you, but th ALL is to strange to me.if you would say: "I hate all stupid men", or "I hate all ignorant men", this would be better. cause a view of them are not so bad (especially if they are female to male TS)

I have been screwed over by men and women, lesbian, bi, and straight. A good person is a good person, regardless of gender.

And I am ALWAYS open about being TS. I lied to myself for so many years and when it came time for the lies to go, out they all went. My being open has caused issues, especially with one lesbian gf I had but it was her loss and I am the one who broke it off.

It is already many years ago, there I experienced this:

I was in a lesbian bar to take part of a meeting of the "feminist party" where I was at that time a member. In the break I got to know a woman to whom I talked very nicely. She was, like me, in search of new love. She knew nothing about my transsexual past, and I saw no reason to tell it to her. She saw me as a normal woman.
In our spare time we undertook excursions, went to the theater or to exhibitions. We got closer to ourselves, even kissed each other. We had crossed the border of the normal friendship. We wanted BOTH more! I had to say it to her. I was afraid of how she would react. I said it to her in the lesbian bar where we had met. First she looked at me, as if she believed, I would tell her a fairy tale to get rid of her. Then she meant, I wanted to become a man and she looked at me unbelievingly, in such a way, as if I had suddenly been get crazy. Then she understood. Suddenly she got up, paid her bill, and went. By her daughter she was be denied on the phone.

Since this day I say what is happen with me to new potential lovers. To the women to whom it makes no difference it makes no difference; and the others can go.
This brings me to the question, why so many lesbians have prejudices against us?
What do you mean, why?

Quote from: tekla on June 23, 2009, 05:20:16 PM
Patton was right, we should have nuked the USSR when we could have.

Quote from: Lisbeth on June 23, 2009, 11:35:49 PM
I don't generally consider advocating genocide to be "a bit of a mood."

Genocide? You mean what Stalin did to his own people -- twenty million of them -- shortly thereafter? I don't know about nuking them, but the "Uncle Joe" routine during WWII was certainly naive in the extreme, and led to untold suffering within and without the borders of the Soviet Union. (Though, granted, it was often the best and brightest in the late '40's in eastern Europe that ushered in Communist regimes. Sad.)

But, yes, the attitude toward homosexuality in Russia (and, Bog forbid, transsexualism) is appalling.

I don't see how the attitude there is different than in the USA; or Central Africa, or South America except for Brazil, comes to that.

Well, most large American cities allow gay pride parades, for one thing, even if it was different 40 years ago. But the contrast I had in mind was with Western Europe.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on June 26, 2009, 01:37:21 PM
Well, most large American cities allow gay pride parades, for one thing, even if it was different 40 years ago. But the contrast I had in mind was with Western Europe.

Well, that contrast is vivid with USA. Frontier societies and third world societies appear to be different somehow than those that have been around for awhile -- absent, of course, monolithic religious and cultural hierarchies ala imams and priests, for instance.

Yes, but I don't any comparison between Russia and America to be terribly illuminating.

Russia is the cultural equal in every way to any other European culture, and I don't think you can really call it "third world" -- backwards, sure, corrupt, but it's not Bangladesh. And it's certainly not a particularly religious country. Decades of Communism obviously affected the society and how people view sex and gender variance. But it's not immediately obvious why.

Nor was I "calling" USA third world. I am referring to both societies as "frontier" societies.

In some ways it might even be logical to think of Russia as an "oriental" society, or in some ways "middle eastern." Not that the Varangians/Kievans and Novgorod weren't European at all, but much of Russia's culture came from the upper Mediterranean Basin and across the Caucasus and Caspian as well.

The huge push for European didn't begin until Peter began it and the tsars defeated the Swedes for the Baltic opening.

I'll stick with "frontier." I believe that it's more than applicable.   

I didn't think you were calling Russia any of those things, actually.

Obviously Russia is large and diverse. But Russia during the late 19th century, at the height of European power, was one of those European powers, both in political and cultural terms. Then it was involved in the two great European Wars of the 20th century, plus the Cold War, which was focused on the splitting of Europe in two. It's only since the fall of the Soviet Union that Russia has become marginalized from Europe.

So I'll agree with "frontier" in the sense it can be applied to America, but I think "European" is equally applicable to most of the populated areas.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on June 26, 2009, 03:01:04 PM
... But Russia during the late 19th century, at the height of European power, was one of those European powers, both in political and cultural terms. Then it was involved in the two great European Wars of the 20th century, plus the Cold War, which was focused on the splitting of Europe in two. It's only since the fall of the Soviet Union that Russia has become marginalized from Europe. ...

Well, the upper classes certainly were "European oriented," Lyssa, but I'm not so sure that Tolstoy's peasants at Yasnaya Polyana and other estates were exactly European-ised in quite the same way as the Grand Dukes, Tchaikovsky, Chekov and Dostoevsky were.

I think a pretty good case can be made for pretty much what had gone on in Kiev, for instance, with the Rus forming a political elite while the Slavs, Khazars, Avars and Cossacks were less-European looking back around 1000 C.E.

But, I do see your point, governmentally and culturally the courts were looking to Europe. Even if Nick I only seemed to be looking that way in order to keep out dangerous political notions like freeing serfs etc. :)

 

It is very unfortunate. She should have been more forwardly honest with the man from the beginning. Most of we TG persons know of the consequences of deception. Violence of any kind is should not be tolerated. Myself, I avoid dangerous situations and when all else fails RUN!   Tekla is right, quote "we will attack and kill you on Christmas if that works." I was in Panama during operation Just Cause the invasion. The U.S. decided to invade at midnite Dec. 20,!989 five days before Xmas. Caught the entire country with their pants down. Certainly destroyed that holiday season. But it worked. The military dictatorship was completely dismantled and democracy now exists in a country that had dictators for two generations.

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Post Merge: June 26, 2009, 03:26:53 PM

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Alyssa M. mentioned "third world". I lived in a third world banana republic for 24.5 years and now live in Utah. The culture in Utah is far behind any third world country. The entire state suffers from arrested development.

Quote from: Genevieve Swann on June 26, 2009, 03:17:41 PMI lived in a third world banana republic for 24.5 years and now live in Utah. The culture in Utah is far behind any third world country. The entire state suffers from arrested development.

Parts of Utah really are barely a step above Third World -- it's a long way from SLC to the Aneth oil field.

Quote from: Genevieve Swann on June 26, 2009, 03:17:41 PM
The culture in Utah is far behind any third world country. The entire state suffers from arrested development.

Living in the Mormon founded State Utah as a modern American it's like a caveman lived in NYC. It won't fixed for a long time unless you get a Mormon.  ;)

To answer Mister's question, I never said that a post-op TS is "required" to tell a spouse ahead of time. However, if a relationship is going to begin to get serious, I believe it is wiser to tell the person sooner rather than later. While it is still technically none of their business, if you truly love a person and that person loves you and the two of you want to spend the rest of your days together, the less you hide then the higher quality the relationship will be.