Susan's Place Transgender Resources

hey boys and girls,
I believe I asked someone this in another thread, but how would you feel if doctors ran your brain through some high tech machine that determined its gender, and yours came back as your birth sex? And say there was no margin for error. You're simply not your target sex.
Would it change anything?

Quote from: Nero on July 16, 2009, 05:17:28 PM
hey boys and girls,
I believe I asked someone this in another thread, but how would you feel if doctors ran your brain through some high tech machine that determined its gender, and yours came back as your birth sex? And say there was no margin for error. You're simply not your target sex.
Would it change anything?

A bit late for that now, Nero.

Besides, what would a body do while they have its brain out running it through a machine? Just curious.  >:-)

My brain is already being run though a high tech machine!   :D

I would say their machine is faulty.

Quote from: Nero on July 16, 2009, 05:17:28 PM
hey boys and girls,
I believe I asked someone this in another thread, but how would you feel if doctors ran your brain through some high tech machine that determined its gender, and yours came back as your birth sex? And say there was no margin for error. You're simply not your target sex.
Would it change anything?

So a 'hypothetical' machine can be used to 'determine' someones gender by looking at all of the firing neurons and 'decrypting' the pattern in such a way that they can 'read' your sentience and say that you are 100% without a doubt this gender or that gender? With no margin for error, of which is statistically and physically impossible?  :o

Yep, I would totally believe them.

Don't matter what their machine said - I KNOW - I'd say their machine was wired wrong! I have been living it quite comfortably for 35 years and would suggest they get a whole bunch more girls in there and re-calibrate their damned machine!  :o

I'd be crushed. This is actually something that worries me when I hear about studies being done to see if there is a difference between the brains of trans people and cis people. What if they tested me and I wasn't trans, then I'd just be crazy right?
But then again it wouldn't make a difference would it? I'd still feel the way I feel and most of society wouldn't see me as an more legitimate either way so screw scientists and their studies, I don't need either to know who I am with 100% certainty.

That would suck ass.  I do remember there being an online "brain-gender" test put out by some health committee.  I can't remember where though. It had several parts and none of the questions seemed to have anything to do with gender lol, there were math questions and stuff too. One of them showed two faces (same person digitally altered) and you had to pick which one appealed to you more.  They had several of those.  By the end of it (I too was worried the outcome would be something I didn't like, since you definitely could not rig it), it said i was just like every other woman :)

Well if there was no margin for error, the powers that be would use the test results to deny treatment. So, I'd come home and open my wrists or perhaps swallow enough pills to do the job and hope for a better run next time around.

Quote from: Nero on July 16, 2009, 05:17:28 PM
hey boys and girls,
I believe I asked someone this in another thread, but how would you feel if doctors ran your brain through some high tech machine that determined its gender, and yours came back as your birth sex? And say there was no margin for error. You're simply not your target sex.
Would it change anything?

target gender and target sex are different.

HRT can make modify brains to be more like target sex.

but gender variability within the sexes is a well-noted phenomenon. it is very difficult to find all designated gender characteristics even within a small group of cisgendered people. and who gets to designate which characteristics are genuinely male or genuinely female?

-ell ell

Quote from: Becca on July 16, 2009, 06:32:44 PM
Well if there was no margin for error, the powers that be would use the test results to deny treatment. So, I'd come home and open my wrists or perhaps swallow enough pills to do the job and hope for a better run next time around.

I'm afraid I agree. This is something that is one of my biggest fears; that in the future, doctors will have all trans people do this.

I wouldn't be able to live with that major discovery looming o'er me every day of my life.

Quote from: Patrick on July 16, 2009, 06:43:29 PM
This is something that is one of my biggest fears

I hope to be 'done' transitioning in early 2012. One of my biggest fears is that the kooks are right and the world will end shortly thereafter. That would seriously be unfair, not getting to enjoy the fruits of this whole project.

They only way they could make technology that could accurately diagnose us would be to build  technology that can look into the soul, cause I'm pretty sure there is something a lot more serious than just the physical realm happening here.

I wouldn't worry Becca, the kooks have been saying the world will end on a date a few years away for as long as there have been kooks.

Quote from: Adrianna on July 16, 2009, 06:15:43 PM
That would suck ass.  I do remember there being an online "brain-gender" test put out by some health committee.  I can't remember where though. It had several parts and none of the questions seemed to have anything to do with gender lol, there were math questions and stuff too. One of them showed two faces (same person digitally altered) and you had to pick which one appealed to you more.  They had several of those.  By the end of it (I too was worried the outcome would be something I didn't like, since you definitely could not rig it), it said i was just like every other woman :)

That was a test by the BBC science and nature called "sex id". I'd post the link but I think that violates the TOS here. Anyway, you can google it.

Quote from: riven_one on July 16, 2009, 08:36:48 PM
That was a test by the BBC science and nature called "sex id". I'd post the link but I think that violates the TOS here. Anyway, you can google it.

Post away. The site has an interesting set of tests. Plus you are 'family' so have a right to post a link to something you feel is relevant and is not there to just try to sell you something.

Well I wouldn't believe their machine, but if somehow it was correct, I don't think I would change anything. I've only just started my physical transition, but these past 10 weeks I've been on T I feel better than I have in my whole life. So even if I was "supposed" to be female or whatever, I'm gonna do what makes me happiest. Simple as that

I'd probably go through a cycle of reactions...
starting with feeling deeply confused and probably rather crushed too...
then, after that phase I'd probably just start working on rethinking my "self" from scratch..
and then.. go from there.

I would become the leader of a revolution.

Death to the machines!!!

I'd have to go shopping and get new shoes and a purse. Then get my nails and hair done. It would change as much as what the karyotype test proved. I may be XY but It sure didn't stop me from wanting to be a girl.

I would surmise that if the problem was not in the brain that it was the heart, or something else driving the need to transition. There is SOMETHING somewhere inside me. If its not the brain then they need to build more machines and run more tests and keep my shots coming. By then I would be fully transitioned and it would be too late.

Yet from the inside I still feel like a girl.

It'd be kinda late too late for me too.

The point is that it doesn't matter.  Your feelings are your feelings.  It doesn't matter how they arose.  They are what they are.

Now here is another hypothetical question.  What if there was a switch on that machine which would make your feelings of gender dysphoria disappear.  From that point on you would be totally cool with your birth gender.  Would you let them flip that switch?

Not for me thanks.  If I didn't feel like a woman, then I wouldn't be me, so I would tell them not to bother.  Especially now!

-Sandy

Quote from: Sandy on July 17, 2009, 07:54:15 AM
What if there was a switch on that machine which would make your feelings of gender dysphoria disappear.  From that point on you would be totally cool with your birth gender.  Would you let them flip that switch?

That's actually a tough question for me.  Were it right now, I'd probably say yes.  Not because I dislike who I am, or how I feel.  It's just it would make it so much easier for my SO, that and it's not even financially possible for me to even start fully transitioning at the moment... I guess if I was further along that would be a different story..

Mu. I would choose not undergo such a test in the first place.

I don't believe structure can define identity.

It's fun to read about differences in brain structure, pre-natal hormone washes and the like, but all too often we forget one important factor - inclination. These factors only raise the likelyhood of somebody being transgendered. They aren't a sure thing.

That being said, I know the point of the question is geared more in a social context - so I'll stop being difficult ;)

First and foremost, I think I'd be shocked. It wouldn't change who I was, or my identity, but it might (subconsciously) make me more open to using and improving "female" skills (eg, language skills, communications skills, etc).

... or it could go the other way and I could start overcompensating  :laugh:

But it wouldn't turn me into a female any more than having female bits did. It'd just be another physical bit that didn't match.

Quote from: Sandy on July 17, 2009, 07:54:15 AM
Would you let them flip that switch?

No. Gender is only part of my whole identity, but it is none the less a part.  I like who I am, "warts and all" as they say. That's not something I could say years ago, when I was living as female and thought I was cool with it.

Flipping that switch would cause more problems than it'd fix.

Quote from: Nero on July 16, 2009, 05:17:28 PM
hey boys and girls,
I believe I asked someone this in another thread, but how would you feel if doctors ran your brain through some high tech machine that determined its gender, and yours came back as your birth sex? And say there was no margin for error. You're simply not your target sex.
Would it change anything?

Absolute nothing would change. Except for the machine, after I shortcircuited it with a bobby pin.

Janet

Like some other people here, this is actually one of my biggest fears that in the future all trans people will have to go through that. I'm even more afraid that it would be the determining factor if people can transition or not.

If this machine said I was female, I would just continue living as much as possible as male.

Quote from: Sandy on July 17, 2009, 07:54:15 AM
Now here is another hypothetical question.  What if there was a switch on that machine which would make your feelings of gender dysphoria disappear.  From that point on you would be totally cool with your birth gender.  Would you let them flip that switch?

No, I wouldn't.

The problem is there are so many different male/female differences in body systems that identifying a brain as Male or Female is an extreme oversimplification.   I suspect that my brain would come back something like 47% male and 48% female and 5% space alien. ;)

There are literally dozens of different intersex conditions where people can get parts/attributes/conditions/preferences of both sexes. I think I have some kind of intersex condition, and am trying to find out where I can find specialists who know something about it.  I have a male reproductive system, but large breasts and short stature and a natural estrogen level that is at the very top of the "normal" male range. (My current hypothesis is excess aromatase syndrome).  My gender therapist said she thought I was FTM when she first met me, even though I consider myself M?TF.

I would take a 5# sledgehammer to their machine and hammer away until there was nothing left.   :icon_userfriendly:

I am in control of my destiny, not some stupid machine.  If my brain gender corresponded with my birth gender, then why the hell would I have gone through all that I have in the first place?  Seriously?

My brain was never the problem. I am the same person regardless of my gender. It is society that thinks people should play roles. I avoid both those roles. I changed my body because I did not like the original equipment. No, I will never cow down to societies  normal.

I wouldn't feel... at all.