Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I don't get it, i think breasts without arm pit hair is like eyes without eyebrows, strange and wrong.

I also like my hair, it keeps my skin nice prevents dry uncomfortable skin, the edges which are less hairy seem to have less healthy skin, i think the hair is good and useful under there.

why get rid of it, and particularly why only on women?

glad my partner doesn't mind it, but he could bloody well get stuffed if he did.

I'll always shave mine... even if I'm a bloke..

It just feels cleaner.
It doesn't start smelling as quickly.
And I'm used to it..

*shrug*

Because the other girls in gym class will make fun of you if you don't.

In all seriousness, though, I suspect it's about exaggerating the natural differences between men and women.  Women are generally less hairy.  Less hair = more feminine, therefore no body hair = even more feminine, right?  Though, in reality, high school gym class probably had a more direct effect on most women than whatever psychological garbage was in the original concept.

IDK, I never shaved, anything but my face once or twice.

But i've been watching this one for a while, i think men and women actually have about the same amount of arm pit hair. Men have harier chests and limbs but women have harier heads (when men strat thinning on top) but i think arm pits are pretty equal.

To me, it looks jarring to see a woman wearing something sleeveless and she hasn't shaved. That said, I still believe a woman should please herself, especially where her own body is concerned.

I shave both underarms and legs. Legs because they're one of the few real attributes I've got, and I want to make the most of them. Plus, stubble is just revolting, whether on a woman's legs or a man's face. I shave my underarms because it's generally what women do, and now I'm used to it.

I spent wayyyyy too much of my life being a chia pet. I don't have much body hair at all anymore, without testosterone, but what I've got has got to go.

hrmmm... nah i don't tend to do sleveless, i tend to think it's a bit immodest in general. I think it looks ok naked or swimwear, but even i don't think it looks ok sticking out from girlie clothes.

Quote from: metal angel on August 10, 2009, 08:02:53 AM
hrmmm... nah i don't tend to do sleveless, i tend to think it's a bit immodest in general. I think it looks ok naked or swimwear, but even i don't think it looks ok sticking out from girlie clothes.

I completely agree.

Quote from: Jamie-o on August 10, 2009, 07:14:33 AM
Because the other girls in gym class will make fun of you if you don't.

this.
i only ever shaved arms and legs so girls wouldn't laugh at me. stopped a long, long time ago.

i alwayse just ignorred them, i kinda liked being excluded at highschool, kind of reassuring in a way to know i wasn't one of "them".

The female armpit is a sexy looking erogenous zone, so exposing it by removing hair makes sense.

Female hair-removal is fundamentally a way to appear younger.

Estrogen causes more hair growth on the pubis and underarms, compared to males.

Because the hair accumulates stink, it seems.

I've been shaving my pits for years, and I'm a bio-male.

Feminists here encourage women not to shave their armpits. I sometimes shave them to wear tube top or shoulderless tee.

Barbie~~

Even if I am a guy I keep my body hairless (except my head of course). I just feel cleaner if I have less hair on my body

I think it is just a stereotype that women shave under their arms and their legs.  For me it just looks and feels cleaner.

Janet

Muslims (men and women) remove underarm hair.

I think a big part of it is fashion: Sleeveless tops for women may be appropriate for any level of formality, but only the most casual events (sports, beach, mowing the lawn, sitting on the porch drinking beer) for men. Part of the reason is the amount of hair that men have nearby. Shave the pits, and there is still often plenty more hair bristling in the vicinity. You just can't look anything but gross as a guy in a sleeveless top.

I don't think it's really okay for guys who don't shave their legs to wear shorts in any remotely formal situation either. Body hair is just kind of lewd. Arms are fine, but pits, chest, back, or anything below should be removed or kept hidden.

Because men don't give a crap and women like to feel clean.

Quote from: Sir Kyle on August 10, 2009, 09:07:18 PM
Because men don't give a crap and women like to feel clean.

Um, see my post up above. There are indeed men who, as you put it, give a crap.

Makes me feel fresh, always legs and pit and anywhere else - leave that to the imagination. As for Guys- haven't you seen the wrestling- thay are all shaved, waxed, covered in oil, smooth slippy. OMG time for another shower :laugh: :laugh:

Cindy

Quote from: Alyssa M. on August 10, 2009, 08:52:06 PM
Muslims (men and women) remove underarm hair.

I think a big part of it is fashion: Sleeveless tops for women may be appropriate for any level of formality, but only the most casual events (sports, beach, mowing the lawn, sitting on the porch drinking beer) for men. Part of the reason is the amount of hair that men have nearby. Shave the pits, and there is still often plenty more hair bristling in the vicinity. You just can't look anything but gross as a guy in a sleeveless top.

I don't think it's really okay for guys who don't shave their legs to wear shorts in any remotely formal situation either. Body hair is just kind of lewd. Arms are fine, but pits, chest, back, or anything below should be removed or kept hidden.

i think in all bar the most unbearably warm weather cover is better than shave, shaven just looks doubley naked?

Man i really wish i could find formal wear with sleves that didn't make me look twice my age, why is it socially acceptable for young women to run round half naked at formal events. It's weird.

That's really really odd about Muslims, where do you know that from? They're not allowed to shave their beards or pluck their eyebrows, so it seems weird they'd shave their underarms?

I took a comparative religion class on western monotheistic religions. It's a hadith, i.e. the one of the reports of the life of Muhammed that form the basis of sharia law. (I don't think it's specifically in the Quran, but I could be wrong.) Orthodox Jews have some similar laws. Actually, even some Christians, though generally less orthoprax, subscribe to the notion that women should wear hats in church, while men should keep their heads uncovered.

You can Google it. ;)

Personally I hate pubic hair and shave it from time to time cause all the shedding is just, frustrating. Plus it just get so smelly, especially when it makes me smell like female.

It isn't only women who shave their armpits, I've known some guys who do as well...
For me, yeah, it's an accumulating stink thing. It's easier to go longer between showers if your underarm hair isn't trapping sweat!  :D But if it's winter I usually don't bother because not only do I not really sweat but I'll also be wearing at least t-shirt-length sleeves so I won't get random people pulling faces at me in the street.
Never shaved my legs though. Guess I'm immune to peer pressure. Got some nasty comments in the changing room at school, of course, but I survived unscathed.  :)
I think I read somewhere that the fashion for hairless bodies of women started in Germany at the beginning of the 20th century. It was a magazine article and I'm not sure of the source...  ???

weird and wrong?

but hairless armpits are for little girls, and breasts are for women, the combination looks kind of unnatural...

Full body laser hair removal has reduced my body odor by a phenomenal amount. It's crazy. Not that I try to make a habit of it, but sometimes I'll end up going 3 days without a shower (ick, ick, ick, thank god for pulling hair back.) Happened a couple of times this summer. And I still had a friend and my partner tell me I smelled good.

Lasering the pits, especially, is cheap, easy, fast, and night and day difference.

Quote from: Autumn on September 02, 2009, 11:14:40 PM
Lasering the pits, underarms especially, is cheap, easy, fast, and night and day difference.

I've been thinking about this because my face only needs one or two more hits and they have offered me a fantastic price if I buy 6. Has your skin texture smoothed out like our faces have or does it stay the same?

I'm not done with the underarms yet. My best results were from my first treatment, it's about time for another for me - eeeep!

Instead of having obnoxious stubble and the dark hairs there under the skin, you end up with smooth, soft skin for the most part, barring any blond hairs of course. It's one of the absolute best areas to laser, I think, purely from comfort alone (no scratching/irritation/ingrown hairs/scent/look.)

Thank you Autumn, might just do that. I imagine it doesn't ouchie near as much as the face either does it?

Quote from: Autumn on September 03, 2009, 02:55:11 AM
Instead of having obnoxious stubble and the dark hairs there under the skin, you end up with smooth, soft skin for the most part, barring any blond hairs of course. It's one of the absolute best areas to laser, I think, purely from comfort alone (no scratching/irritation/ingrown hairs/scent/look.)

another way to avoid "obnoxious stubble" is to not shave the poor stuff :P

I do because it looks and feels more feminine. Maybe I should let it grow long and braid it. I'm sure there are guys who would find that a turn-on. I'm joking but it is probably true.

Quote from: metal angel on September 03, 2009, 04:20:05 AM
another way to avoid "obnoxious stubble" is to not shave the poor stuff :P

But if you wax it, you can't laser it. Silly celestial.

I've done face, genitals, abdomen, and underarm without topical anesthetic. I've actually done *everywhere* without it, but those are the most painful areas. Underarm does hurt a fair bit, but for me, the farther it is from the core of the body (stomach, genitals) the easier it is to deal with. Plus underarm takes like a minute on a slow laser, seconds on a faster design.

Also, I've experienced lasers called Yag, MeDioStar, and Candella. The latter was an upper lip touchup trial from a different spa. The Candella HURT LIKE HELLFIRE and persisted with an under the skin burning sensation for the rest of the day. The Yag is what I've done almost my entire body with, excepting one U/A and one leg with the MDS. The MDS didn't hurt at all, and also didn't seem to do anything at all either. The yag is what I've done all of my face with and the other treatments. It hurts, but not nearly as much as the candella did on my face.

The candella was like a shotgun. BLAST. BLAST. BLAST. The Yag goes Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. The mediostar goes beepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeep
beepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeep.

... and that's laser hair removal for kindergarteners. The Yag causes fallout after 2-4 weeks, the mediostar didn't have any immediate effect (they say you notice it more after a few treatments, but you don't get fallout... i don't understand that ->-bleeped-<-), and it felt like the candella incinerated the hairs off my face.

My point is depending on what laser the place uses, it may hurt more or less. Plus, different days are more sensitive, and one side of your body is usually more sensitive than the other.

If you like women with hairy armpits go to Berkeley California, or Amherst Massachusetts.  You'll be in hog heaven.

It's not radical it's a pretty widely accepted social norm.

For those in the unfortunate in between phase who are the owners of hairy breasts I don't think it's much of a question. Begone with it all through whatever means necessary and never look back.

Quote from: Autumn on September 03, 2009, 03:18:00 PM
But if you wax it, you can't laser it. Silly celestial.

i mean leave the poor stuff alone :P

Quote from: Becca on September 03, 2009, 07:54:31 PM
It's not radical it's a pretty widely accepted social norm.

For those in the unfortunate in between phase who are the owners of hairy breasts I don't think it's much of a question. Begone with it all through whatever means necessary and never look back.

ah... now hairy breasts is a different issue entirely... i like a bit of androgyny but, chest hair and breasts are not a good match...

It's the young-ness of hairless arm-pits combined with the adultness of breasts that looks wrong. Like those actors who have face-lift faces above turkey necks... just a weird clash...

the shaved look kinda seems peadophillic to me.

legs maybe, some women have almost no hair on their legs anyway, and other bits where it's normal for at least some adult women to have no visable hair, and bikini line if it's juts neatening the edges for clothes...

but all healthy adult women have pubic and underarm hair, usually nearly as much as males, pubic hair and underarm hair just seem like they are a mark of adulthood, when removed it looks kind of pre-pubescent... just seems weird...

i guess it's kind of an exageration of females having a lot less hair in other areas so it leads to a kind of hairless = feminine logic... but women have longer hair on their head (i guess that fits cos men have less head hair) but men have longer eyelashes and wear heaps of mascarra... man, culture is weird!

Maybe it is supposed to be a marker of youth rather than femininity? a 12-year-old girl has breasts growing but no underarm hair yet? and is sometimes fertile. Given humans go through the menapause maybe a woman at the very start of her fertility is what human males are programmed to be attracted to? Whereas in chimpanzees - which i don't think have a manapause - the more mature females are more saught-after by the males. It's no longer acceptable in our culture for men to go for 12-year-old girls, but we seem to have forgotted to adjust our grooming?

Actually that explains the gender difference too, it's more acceptable for mento have hairy armpits and they don't go through menapause, their fertility declines but alot more slowly. Generally youth is more crucial to the popular concepts of beauty in females than in males?

But maybe that's too complicated/precise and i've overdoing the evolutionary psych here? But i think early cultures would have gone for fertile brides, so even if it's cultural rather than evolutionary menapause/youth makes more sense than an adult sexual dimorphism. Because (from the few women who don't mess with it) there really is very little sex difference in underarm hair?

Speaking of beyond natural beauty, who on earth decided teeth should be white? no part of a human is supposed to be white except a 90-year-old's hair. Teeth should be ivory, because they are ivory. Well... in my case coffee colourred, but i think that's better than bleeched bright white.

I personally don't like hairy underarms on women, just my preference. For some reason mine doesn't even grow there anymore, not that I'm complaining, so not all women have bushes under their arms.

Quote from: metal angel on September 03, 2009, 09:09:35 PM
But maybe that's too complicated/precise and i've overdoing the evolutionary psych here?

I think you are.  You think hairy armpits look natural, many think it looks better without hair.  I hate licorice, other people love it.  Can we leave it at personal preference?

Quote from: FairyGirl on September 03, 2009, 09:35:00 PM
I personally don't like hairy underarms on women, just my preference. For some reason mine doesn't even grow there anymore, not that I'm complaining, so not all women have bushes under their arms.

hrmmm... i've never know of any biological women who don't have under-arm hair? are you on androgen blockers which might be driving testosterone below adult biofemale levels or something? Or maybe you're just unusual/lucky.

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Post Merge: September 04, 2009, 02:10:59 AM

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Quote from: Ketsy on September 03, 2009, 10:18:13 PM
I think you are.  You think hairy armpits look natural, many think it looks better without hair.  I hate licorice, other people love it.  Can we leave it at personal preference?

i'm just curious cos it seems like an odd thing to do.

maybe it's just that women generally have more patience for grooming?

I like to wax mine. Same with my legs. But then I never had much body hair to begin with. I never had a full beard either  ???

As much as I hate to say it, the pedo comment probably has some merit. I'm not saying it matters, hairless underarms on women is a social norm and it's generally considered improper to display most forms of body hair, period. However, for example, we do know that speaking in terms of evolution, by and large men find blonde hair more attractive because it denotes youth and therefore increased abilty to mate and better chances of sucessful procreation thus perpetuating the species.

For us trans persons, it's an indicator of gender because people generally assume others are going to comply with accepted norms. For those of us who barely pass if at all, it could very well be the tipping point, so why mess with it? Personally my goal is to blend into society and disappear, and making feminist statements by growing bushes under my arms isn't gonig to help that.

 :D I can just imagine , a girls night out , you have a beautiful body , perfect breasts ,  perfect makeup , an amazing white dress , you look stunning , oh and hairy armipits , i can just imagine what would be the centre of attention  :D NO THANKYOU . Shaved and feminine for me  :angel:

why don't they make more studff with sleves dang it.. you can't get formal wear with sleves unless you want to look like Princess Camilla Winsor... grrr... guess i could go islamic, but i'm a raging atheist, me in islamic dress would be just taking the piss, guess i'd better get sewing...

Quote from: Becca on September 04, 2009, 03:03:35 AM
As much as I hate to say it, the pedo comment probably has some merit. I'm not saying it matters, hairless underarms on women is a social norm and it's generally considered improper to display most forms of body hair, period. However, for example, we do know that speaking in terms of evolution, by and large men find blonde hair more attractive because it denotes youth and therefore increased abilty to mate and better chances of sucessful procreation thus perpetuating the species.

I find blond hair colorless and unattractive.

I, being covered in body hair, find the hairless look appealing NOT because "it denote youth," but because I despise body hair.

The evolution comment doesn't make sense to me, unless I'm missing something. It seems that the dark haired and dark skinned outnumber the light haired and light skinned. I don't this was your intention, but your post seems to be making some sexist generalizations.

I just don't understand the need to over analyze everything.  What on earth is the big deal with shaving one armpits?  Guys do it and girls do it, and they do it for many reasons some of which are:

It's often considered pleasing to the eye.
Many consider shaven armpits to be cleaner.

Lets face it many women are out to attract men, and one way is with their appearance.  Yes I know there are some cultures where hairy armpits are considered attractive and if that applies to any of the readers then go for it, what the heck.  Geeze

-={LR}=-

I suspect a combination of social fashion and establishing a gender contrast may well be behind armpit and leg shaving.  I doubt that ladies in the  so called "working classes" of the 17th and 18th century bothered shaving their armpits :)

I do find the pedo idea entirely groundless.  I overheard a militant feminist at a party spouting off about how all men are closet pedo's because they like girls to be hairless as if they were pre-pubescent boys (as well as laying into the cosmetics industry and any remotely made up woman for being a "sell out").  There were probably a few nuggets of potentially interesting conversation buried beneath the foaming-at-the-mouth rant but I (like pretty everyone else there) just pulled down the mental blast shields and tuned her out :)

Personally, a little unobtrusive armpit hair on a girl doesn't bother me.  A thick thatch of it sprouting out like a dozen spiders trying to escape from within a burger bun would certainly be off-putting.

For what it's worth, I occasionally trim - rather than shave - my armpit hair.  That's usually simply to make it easier to apply powder and dry-stick deodorant more evenly.

I don't think the idea of men finding youthful features like hairless skin and yellow hair attractive on a primal level is flawed or sexist at all; but just like everything else when speaking in terms of evolutionary psychology it's only a theory, and one of many. Really the only way we could verify the data would be to poll every man who ever reproduced. I think it's an interesting school of thought.  ^-^

the youth thing need not be evolutionary, might be cultural knowledge that young women made more fertile brides

i think the fassion really too hold in the 60s and 50s though attached to sleveless summer dresses, so i guess the real question is why is it respectable for women to show more flesh in public

a alwayse thing it's weird that no matter the weather on a friday or saturday night in town the guys are in suits (or at least sleves and long pants) but the girls are wearing about 2 square inches of gold sequins... bit mad really...

Quotethe youth thing need not be evolutionary, might be cultural knowledge that young women made more fertile brides

Possibly, although I am confident that it's nothing to do with evolution, or youthful fertility at all - the reason being that I'm pretty sure shaven armpits being commonplace is a relatively modern phenomenon.  Does anyone really think having shaved armpits was widespread among the general population over all the ages?  I doubt it - hence I think it would have little to do with evolution or procreation and probably more to do with the (relatively) modern female stereotype.

As an aside, it's quite nice to have inconsequential topics like this to discuss - it's a welcome stress-reliever :)

I'm pretty sure shaven armpits being commonplace is a relatively modern phenomenon.

And I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, as it is refereed to for both men and women as a hygiene deal by Muhammad (570-632 C.E.)  And we have records of such behavior in Babylon in deep B.C.E, and in Rome dating back as far as 1 B.C.E.

Modern safety razors, first manufactured by King Camp Gillette (who had a real cool name) created a modern fad for it beginning in the 19teens with fashion magazines, which went along with men removing the hair from their face.

Quote from: tekla on September 07, 2009, 10:13:42 AM
I'm pretty sure shaven armpits being commonplace is a relatively modern phenomenon.

And I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, as it is refereed to for both men and women as a hygiene deal by Muhammad (570-632 C.E.)  And we have records of such behavior in Babylon in deep B.C.E, and in Rome dating back as far as 1 B.C.E.

Really? Ok fair enough - point conceded. I knew shaving occurred, I just had no idea it was commonplace.  Thanks for the correction!

I just knew a lot of that from doing research on King Camp Gillette back in grad school, he was a noted Utopian progressive socialist at the time, and had a huge pile of money because of his invention.  And part of studying him uncovered a bunch of stuff about shaving.  He also was a huge Hollywood hanger on, and was buried in Forest Lawn Cemetery, also the final resting place of Michael Jackson now.

I, for one, enjoy it when a lady has little fuzzy patches under her arms.  Can't really explain - it's just cute and cuddly, like a little squirrel.  I think squirrels are adorable too.  Maybe I've said too much here.:)

A man-eating hippie bush under each arm is gross.  Just a little fuzz is cute.  That's how I like to keep mine and how I like it on women.

I never understood the attraction to blondes.  Maybe it's because I am blonde.  My preference would be brunette/black, red, blonde.

Quote from: calliope on September 07, 2009, 12:42:18 PM
I, for one, enjoy it when a lady has little fuzzy patches under her arms.  Can't really explain - it's just cute and cuddly, like a little squirrel.  I think squirrels are adorable too.  Maybe I've said too much here.:)

A man-eating hippie bush under each arm is gross.  Just a little fuzz is cute.  That's how I like to keep mine and how I like it on women.

I never understood the attraction to blondes.  Maybe it's because I am blonde.  My preference would be brunette/black, red, blonde.

I agree... never seen a real life man-eating hippie bush though... i doubbt they exist myself. But yeah when i want pin up girls i search far and wide for modern hippie stuff or 19th century french stuff to get cute whispy bits.

Not counting both genders (though i'm going to be trying to stare down the sunni guy in the lab's sleves now...) but i think the feminine hair removal concept was big in turkey pre-20th century

women removed strange bits and pieces over the years, they used to pluch their hair lines back to give high forheards in the time of queen liz the first, i think the underarm hair for women only in the west cam early 20th century though come to think of it?

I agree... never seen a real life man-eating hippie bush though... i doubbt they exist myself

I toured with the Grateful Dead for a few years, and the BTHC (bit titted hippie chics) do exist, and they will ->-bleeped-<- your sox off, if you are wearing them.

You people need to get out more.

I dunno... generallly my friends have been more wild and wolly than average, and i once looked through a whole web site of hippie pin up girls, which was rather extensive, and even in that none had any more than what i would class as feminine whispy bits of hair under their arms. Maybe me and Calliope just have different standard of femininity?

There are all kinds of women, some men care, most do not - do you put out?  If Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Good enough.  If no.  Who cares?

I thought I'd give an update: I had a full face/neck treatment with the candella because there was enough dark hair to laser, prior to electrolysis. It's interesting. It doesn't require the ultrasound gel that I'm used to other lasers needing, and it does this burst of cryo-freeze mist thing to cool instead of the constant jet of cold air.

Much, much less messy than the other lasers I'm used to. It's a more aggressive, intense laser, so that alone is encouraging. I wish I'd found it sooner.

And ohgod electrolysis really sucks.

I thought of you kitties in the tub last night while I was shaving my underarms and nicked myself when I started giggling. You owe me a band aid Metal Angel  :icon_booty-nerd:

Quote from: Becca on September 08, 2009, 01:42:42 PM
I thought of you kitties in the tub last night while I was shaving my underarms and nicked myself when I started giggling. You owe me a band aid Metal Angel  :icon_booty-nerd:

:icon_chainsaw:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Great

Quote from: metal angel on September 07, 2009, 09:02:08 AM
the youth thing need not be evolutionary, might be cultural knowledge that young women made more fertile brides

The Desmond Morris' classical book "The naked ape" would be interesting on this matter:
http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Ape-Zoologists-Study-Animal/dp/0385334303 (http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Ape-Zoologists-Study-Animal/dp/0385334303)

He hypothesized that sex has been the ultimate driving forcing for body hair loss of Homo sapiens sapiens compared with other primates. Sex is strongest in human species among all primates. Yes. Sex was so much important for Westerners such as C. Darwin, S. Freud and D. Morris. And, indeed.

Barbie~~