Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I may be barking up the wrong tree here? cos this is pretty much the opposite approach to what most of you are doing. How about just learning to love the gender you are? Or learning to be whoever you are (feminine, masculine, neutral, whatever) in whatever body you happen to have?

I don't think i am really at home in my current gender, but i also don't think i'd feel much more at home as the other gender. Being a perfect fully-function hermaphrodite, accepted as such by the world would be ideal... but not really an option...

sorry this is likely to get a bit stream of consciousness...

I think my body is part of me. I don't feel like i'm in a body; i feel like i am a body. So, while i have a working female body, change is not an option that makes sense to me, though if enough of my female body ever got sick or injurred i may be tempted to have myself reconstructed as something more male or androgynous. But that's a tangent, I hope the body i have keeps working.

I have been asking around for ways to pass as male or obscure my gender. I don't think i'd have much interest in going full time, i do sometimes like being female. I would really like to be able to pass when i wanted though. Or just obscure my gender. I want to keep my gender private really, but that doesn't seem feasible, i have a very feminine body. I can't think of a way to do it, a lot of the ways seem too painful (binders, i can't tolerate take tight waist bands), just hopeless without doing much irreversible, or just silly (false beard).

A lot of them also seem kind of dishonest (for me to try at least) like learning a new speaking voice, it wouldn't seem like my voice. Or trying to change my mannerisms. I prefer to just act as comes naturally and just be myself, which i think is probably pretty genderless. But being in a very female body, in the clothes that fit a female body well, i obviously get perceived as female and treated as female.

Just demanding to be treated as neither seems to be asking to much. as is going out "i'm going to be male me today", without putting in way more effort that i can motivate myself to do. Maybe this lack of effort on appearance means i do have some real masculine in me (tough half-way into cheek).

I've got all sorts of personas running round in my head... and i started almost de-integrating last year... assigning all my flaws to either my "male side" or my "female side". But when i think about it, i think i can chase my gender into a corner, and i think it only REALLY resides in my body not my mind, my mind is genderless. How can i free myself from gender? Or learn to love my gender?

I think I understand what you are saying.  I have often wished that I could be genderless.  I even tried a few times to present that way, but because I have a male body people would just see me as a weird male. 

Other times I wished I could switch back and forth, appearing female sometimes and male sometimes.  I know there are those who can, but I was not good at acting and, besides, putting on a false front was not my goal.  (And it always seemed false to me, which is my own fault.)

When I finally started dealing with my gender issues openly and in public view, it soon became apparent to me that I would need to transition to being female in order to have the freedom to be who I really am – a mix of both but much more woman than man.

At this time, our society sees people as either male or female.  We have reached the point where most realize there is huge variation within each category.  We have reached the point where many realize not everyone born with the anatomy of one sex has the gender of that sex.  People are much more aware of gender variation and variation in physical sex (intersexed, androgyne, etc.).  So we are heading in the right direction even if we have a long way to go.

For me, now, in this world, I need to be a woman to be happy.  I will fit in better as a woman.  But that doesn't mean the fit is necessarily perfect. :P

- Kate

I tried it.
I gave it my everything.
And I suffered.

This is what I Have to do, there is no other option, if I want to live.

As I've said many times, GID is like cancer, some of it can be dealt with in a simple out-patient procedure, other kinds, its like buy a coffin and make out your will.

It's a vast spectrum, and far more 3-D than a simple right to left line with boys on one side, and girls on the other.  At any rate, there are a lot of people who ID with 'either, neither, and both'.

Yeah... i gather (or at least i optimistically hope) those who are transitionning are doing what is right in their case. But that's obviously not right for me... not criticising, just seeking advice.

Sometimes when you are being a pioneer, you just have to walk off the map and keep on going.


Rammstein's mailing list has a third!
What's more amazing is that Rammstein has a mailing list, which somehow suggests their fans can read, I never would have guessed that.

My sexual chromosome is XY, but most of my body looks feminine. Yes. My body is a part of me, and I want to decorate it to look pretty (or hansome). Some part of my mind is also very feminine. I love my body and mind.

Barbie~~

I tried to be my gender for 54 years and it only lead to misery, pain and being alone most of the time.  I am much happy now, being who I am.

Janet

Dittos Tekla.

For myself I tried going totally male for 30 some years, over and over again: career, hobbies, Grizzly Addams beard, muttin chops & mustache, boots were the only footwear, shot competition, married, drank, saw my barber every other week,  .. and I hated myself. It was all a lie.

Everyone is different, and each of us needs to find our own comfort place on the bell curve.

Quote from: metal angel on August 25, 2009, 07:57:10 AM
I may be barking up the wrong tree here? cos this is pretty much the opposite approach to what most of you are doing. How about just learning to love the gender you are? Or learning to be whoever you are (feminine, masculine, neutral, whatever) in whatever body you happen to have?

I am attempting to learn this - becoming comfortable with being myself first, albeit stupidly (and by stupidly I am comically saying excessively) feminine at times, while maintaining a male identity both mentally and physically (as grating as it can be at times).

I'd say my efforts have generally been rewarding to me.  I'm not pulling my hair out because I'm not transitioning, and I feel more authenticity in my relationships.

well i've ruled out transitioning, if nothing else i think if i was a guy i woldn't be happy as that either.

got a ten-step-plan for that, interalia?

Quote from: metal angel on August 28, 2009, 09:13:14 AM
well i've ruled out transitioning, if nothing else i think if i was a guy i woldn't be happy as that either.

got a ten-step-plan for that, interalia?

Man, I wish I did.  I don't have the answers though, all I can do is continue to seek for them and be honest with myself as I continue to use introspection and counseling to discover more of the nature of my condition.  I've learned several things that have helped me, but they don't seem to be universal (or to generalize well to others).  Check out my blogs if you'd like to see more, specifically -> http://gidinteralia.blogspot.com/2009/06/nature-of-gender-dysphoria.html (http://gidinteralia.blogspot.com/2009/06/nature-of-gender-dysphoria.html)  I think this one has been very helpful to me.  Another is -> http://gidinteralia.blogspot.com/2009/04/coping-techniques-to-date-4509.html (http://gidinteralia.blogspot.com/2009/04/coping-techniques-to-date-4509.html)

For me it's been years that I hid in the male personna.  Then I met my current wife who helped me to explore the possibilities from just cross dressing occasionally to full blown SRS.  She wouldn't let me stop unitl I had explore and discussed it all with her.  The result has been a choice to not transition, but away from family and the job, to live as a woman.  It is where I'm comfortable with myself and at peace.  Though, I admit, that at times I wish it were different, it is what I have chosen and I am pleased with my choice.  To love and cherish one's body is a wonderful idea, but along with that must go the mental and emotional as well.  For me, I think and feel more feminine than male, so I choose to be as feminine as I can.  This is just my opinion and no judgements are offered.

As far as I see it, changing one's body does not necessarily mean it ceases to be the very same body.  If our bodies were always meant to be the same, we would not go through such changes naturally in life, from conception to death.  If I am in control of my body, if it is a part of me and more a vessel than anything, reconfiguring it to meet my needs is nothing short of routine.  I don't think there's a way in the world that your body can be anyone else's but yours, but you can feel more or less connected to it.  People are often caught up in what is "supposed" or "not supposed" to be, but I don't see it that way.  Sex itself was a random variation that, nature decided, worked quite well.  However, nature is constantly bringing about new variations and whether or not such variations are discernible in every person, they are there.  Sex is a structure, but not so sturdy a structure that it is recreated in the womb to be identical in each and every specimen.  Clearly that is seen in intersex people.

I also don't understand the rigidity of gender barriers.  I do realize there is masculine and feminine as we have defined it in our society, but I think the main issue is not whether you are a man or a woman but what you are most comfortable with.  One in every 20,000 men was born with no Y chromosome, or only fragments of it.  I'm sure something similar can be said about women. 

I'm getting off track, but I mean to say that this is my body, it was my body at birth and it will be the same body when I die.  It will just change.  And the act of cherishing ones body does not necessarily restrict itself to cherishing the body a person was born with.  If a person is born with no arms, with their bladder on the outside of their body, it would then follow to cherish it without seeking procedures to make the body more comfortable, more efficient.

Yes. Although it is very difficult and sometimes dangerous to stay in the boundary between men and women, the the area has been extending as we see in unisex and metrosexual. Still, it is thrilling to express my body and mind through a little change in clothes and makeup because no so many people tried to enter that area.

Barbie~~

I think that's what I've done for a lot of my life: I've just made do what what I have. That's part of my personality. Lord knows I've tried being masculine. It was an epic fail. I am SO much happier being feminine, female in my head, and clothed/acting as female as possible at home.

I think living in the middle can be rather precarious. I'm sort of there now. Even in full-on boy mode, I look and act like a VERY feminine man with long hair who wears lots of sparkly jewelry. This is just me, but I don't think I'd be comfortable staying at that point.

Sigh. To have Ranma's problems.

Quote from: tekla on August 25, 2009, 09:37:38 AM
Rammstein's mailing list has a third!
What's more amazing is that Rammstein has a mailing list, which somehow suggests their fans can read, I never would have guessed that.

well it is in two languages so they don't expect their german fans to be able to read english, or their english-speaking fans to be able to read german.

but i reckon their german fans (all 4 of them) probably can read english and they just chuck the german version there to seem more exotic to their english speaking fans.

there are also a lot of pitcures ;)

I think they are a cut above most of the band in that genre, and they have an obvious sense of humor in a world where almost all the humor is unintentional.

I do have trouble with using flamethrowers in a sold out theater, but that's just me.  I hear the new tour might have a sting section out on the road with them, which I guess is better than flamethrowers, but not by much.

you mean string section? oh dear... that so wouldn't work with rammstein...

though i must admit i didn't think it would work with Judas Priest but i ended up loving Nostradamous

Yeah, but it looks like they are only doing Europe, I don't think they have really toured the US since 2001.

i got it worse :( i'm stuck in Australia, judas priest did their first ever show (halford show at least) here last year... bloody antipodies

The costs of touring a band, even in country, are astronomical anymore. Shipping all that stuff halfway around the world, having to do the customs thing, and the work permits is a huge hassle and also very expensive. And the distance deal down under is even worse than it is in the Western US. So you pay to ship all that to Australia, you pay to get the work permits and your crew in, and what do you have?  Five major cities in a thousand miles or so?  Back when record companies wrote the checks life was different, but now when it comes out of their own pocket, that's a lot of expense for not much return.

in the case of iron maiden bruce flew all their ->-bleeped-<- down himself, in his own plane... i think they're having fun emptying tehir own pockets

for judas priest they didn't get much corwd, only half the stadium thingy was even opened, the other half of the doors said "you have been upgraded to gold seating/standing go to doors... (whatever door numbers led to open section)" and even the half they opened wasn't full... i got upgraded to front row of the mosh which was brilliant, but i don't think they're comming back any time soon :(

Actually you'd be surprised how many little tiny bands come down here though, i think they come down for the beaches and play gigs rather than doing bar work. I remember a gig from a german death grind band ages ago, the singer kept asking for water in a really heavy accent... i found that funny... i was probably drunk. actually a lot of relatively small-time ausie bands do over-seas tours, ithink they do them as kind of a working holiday too.

The smaller the band, the less the cost.  And, if your not that huge, say your playing 1K clubs or less, you can get buy on rented equipment and little to no crew, so you only have to bring your instruments, which really lowers the cost. If you're doing a stadium show, all that staging has to be either dragged or built there - either way, its a huge expense. And you need people, people who don't come cheap (at all, bargain basement roadies is going to make $1,500 a week, plus per diem, plus hotels, buses, and airfare - the big techs are going to be making $700 a day, plus all the rest, one tech per instrument - that runs up a huge bill very fast.)

yeah i gather it's cheaper to bring 2 gutars and borrow your support acts amps :P just an intreguing anomaly, or in the case of one Austrian "dj" just his lap top... you see i don't really get the point of live if you do that kinda music?

i think when priest came without halford they played a pretty small venue, missed it though, i think i was like 1 year too young to get into bars at the time :(

borrow your support acts amps

Good luck on that one, unless they were contracted to do that, most band would have a huge problem with it.  If I was that bands manager (tour or stage) I would not permit it without a substantial amount of money, in cash, up front - and I'd charge going rates, which is like $250 a day for a drum kit.

Back when I was young(er) and stupid I did this deal called Van's Warped Tour with two stages and a pile of bands that all sounded exactly alike.  One stage would be fired up while the other was changing, so there was continual music for like 7 hours or some silly thing. I spend all day working a stage and switching the bands, we had them lined up in back of the stage like so many airplanes waiting to take off.  And while the music was all the same - I mean like collectively could anyone learn a forth chord? - what was really funny was as I was standing there looking out at the equipment staging area, other than the drum sets, it was all the same.  We'd spend all day switching out one Ampeg bass unit for another Ampeg bass unit, one Orange stack for another Orange stack, one Marshall for another Marshall.

he he he... my friend played some dodgy battle of the bands once where there was the opposite problem, they made them all use a borrowed drum kit, which didn't even have most of the stuff that most of the bands needed. It was mainly metal bands and the kit had just the one bass drum, one band pulled out and just said they couldn't play most of their stuff witth it.

Man, battle of the bands gigs seem doge round here, they make the bands pay to enter... seems like the money's going the wrong way there, playing gigs free for the fun of it is one thing, but paying to play is pushing it, especially when they also charge entry for the spectators. I guess it's cos those events are "all ages" so no bar takings.

If 'dodgy' is Aussie slang for what we would call 'bogus' then I think you are spot on.

But there is a lot of 'pay to play' particularly at the lower levels.  Lots of places have things like ticket guarantees, which means your band buys the first 100 tickets, at cost, and either sells them or gives them away, and gets the money for whatever comes in over that. Now, if you know you have 200 fans, no problem, if not, it adds up real fast.

yeah, you speak good Aussie, mate ;)

hrmmm... i think for these gigs they are also obliged to sell tickets, on top of having to pay to play and not getting to let any friends in free... man, even if i had any tallent i couldn't be arsed being in a band.

If you work harder - and have more tallent and originality - you can work your way up to the paying gigs quicker, i have a mate who can get a band together and gigging in a couple of months... but he's the exception, my other friend is not unskilled and has been with his band for about 4 years and still gets $50 between him and his three bandmates for his best gigs, and pays to play his worst

and have more tallent and originality

Oh, I suppose, though a lot of times when I'm out with civilians and they find out what I do the first thing out of their mouth is "I know this really talented...." and I try to cut them off as soon as possible and tell them that in many ways, talent is the least of it.

My guess, is that with your friends, the ones who got those gigs were not better at playing, or had a better band, but had someone who in American slang could Hustle and Flow, who was on the phone, who was going out and meeting people, and working harder to sell the band than the other one. It tends to matter more, not who is playing guitar, or singing, or on drums, but who is playing 'phone and briefcase' particularly when you are starting out. Its the music business, and I always thought that was wrong, its the business of music, the business has to come first.

yeah this guy is more orignal and can sing... but yeah, the big difference is that he has more get up and go, i was at a gig with him once and he said "i want a band that's kinda country and kinda metal.." he went round enthusiastically describing his new idea and introducing himself to interesting-looking people that night "Hey mate, what do you play? what music do you like... wanna join my band?". At one point he came out of the mens room at one point:
him "I FOUND ONE!"
me "a what?"
him "a new band!"
and he had, he'd found a band, he rehersed with them the nest week, wrote them some new songs, and was gigging with them within the next couple of months, at better gigs than my other friend can get after 4 years of paying to play...

but man, he had enthusiasm he rounded up a friend who was into graphic design to do poasters for their first gig and put them up all round town, and i think he even bought the whole bar a drink at their first gig... small crowd... but the next crowd was bigger...

i keep telling my gigless friend to just ditch his band and start one with Mr Enthusiasm.