Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Just curious as to what Buddhist feels about people being trans? I know many religions shun us and do not accept us for who we are. Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated.

I have studied and practised Buddism, however I don't call myself a Buddist. From my understanding Trans-people are unconditionally accepted. When you embrace Buddism you separate yourself from your worldly position. Sexuality and gender, to my knowledge is not addressed.

I've only witnessed Buddhism in Asia and, like other religions, people identifying under one religion still react differently.  I have no idea what they would say about this specific issue as I never had cause to find out.  I wasn't too enamoured with the view of disability being a "punishment" for deeds in a previous life (fortunately not a universally held view).

I am aware that some believe one should free oneself of all Earthly desires etc. as part of a journey to "nirvana".  I don't know if they would include the desire to transition within that :)

Quote from: finewine on September 07, 2009, 01:02:51 AM
I am aware that some believe one should free oneself of all Earthly desires etc. as part of a journey to "nirvana".  I don't know if they would include the desire to transition within that :)

I do have a friend who holds that belief--that one can never be happy as long as they are attached to Earthly things.  He classifies the body as being in the realm of 'Earthly' things.  He basically sees transition as wholly unnecessary, because the spirit should transcend the body.  The guy keeps reiterating over and over that I will never be happy if I am so over-concerned with my body that I must change it.  I keep getting the feeling from him that I'm somehow spiritually flawed for transitioning (direct quote: "you wouldn't be doing this if you weren't so preoccupied and over-concerned with your body"). 

If this is the view, I thankfully do not adhere to Buddhism (neither does he, really, but it has heavily influenced his belief system).  However, I can't say whether my friend's interpretation is representative of all Buddhists.

Quote from: Bombi on September 06, 2009, 05:37:22 PM
I have studied and practised Buddism, however I don't call myself a Buddist. From my understanding Trans-people are unconditionally accepted. When you embrace Buddism you separate yourself from your worldly position. Sexuality and gender, to my knowledge is not addressed.

In Buddhism *everything* is addressed! The question is...who is your teacher/what school of thought/culture, and what level or intensity of practice. A Japanese lay practitioner may have very different ideas and answers to the question than a Tibetan yogi perched on a mountaintop and both would be in accord with their Dharma. So there's no easy answer to the above question.

Quote from: Eryk on September 07, 2009, 01:26:35 AM
I do have a friend who holds that belief--that one can never be happy as long as they are attached to Earthly things.  He classifies the body as being in the realm of 'Earthly' things.  He basically sees transition as wholly unnecessary, because the spirit should transcend the body.  The guy keeps reiterating over and over that I will never be happy if I am so over-concerned with my body that I must change it.  I keep getting the feeling from him that I'm somehow spiritually flawed for transitioning (direct quote: "you wouldn't be doing this if you weren't so preoccupied and over-concerned with your body"). 

I consider myself buddhist and held this belief for awhile, it held me back quite a bit actually. But as far as the original teachings go you can interperet them either way. In Mahayana they speak of relative and ultimate truth, and one cannot exist without the other. The relative truth in this case being that we are embodied physical beings at the moment, and if something needs to be addressed in the physical we can't ignore it. If we have to eat we can't simply deny ourselves food saying that it is of samsara. Doing so is not the Middle Way and ignoring relative truth for the sake of ultimate, which misses the point entirely. That would be the way of extreme ascetics, which Buddha renounced.

Buddhism teaches you that your attachment to your worldly possessions and desires are the reason for suffering. Suffering isn't really the right word, more accurately it's "disquietude" (and constant disquietude does cause suffering).

A thought has circled in my mind for a long time where I've begun rethinking how I saw it.

I used to see it as this.
- My attachment to the idea that I "should" be male causes me suffering.
- My attachment to the (discomfort of the) body I'm in causes me suffering.
- My fear of accepting my life as it is.
These were the attachments I attempted to overcome.
I saw it as the "right" way to go.

The more I think about it however, I realize that there's more too it than that.
- My attachment to the role I was given.
- My attachment to pleasing others.
- My attachment to my body the way it is, and all things connected to that.
- My fear of change.
- My fear of the physical effects of transition.
- My fear of loosing people.
etc, etc, etc, ..
You see where I'm going with this no?

When I gave up on trying to be something I'm not and simply accepted I am who I am, and let go of my attachment to the "idea" of who I was "supposed" to be, it changed everything.

There's more than one side to everything we experience. Sometimes, we got to change our perspective to figure out what it is that we really have to do.

Minimar, that's huge and very similiar of what I have learned, to just be wihout projecting yourself into a rationalized perspective.
I find that meditation really helps me see through the bull>-bleeped-<and not let me fool myself.
I do transcendentall meditation 2x's a day, it really helps to keep me on track.

I've been trying to get back into a steady meditation schedule myself. It's good for keeping everything in perspective.
I don't know the exact name of mine, but I do a basic breathing-focus type meditation. Got a good friend who's a Reiki master, solipsist/buddhist that I talk to that half-guides me. Good teachers are valuable.

In discussing this with my teacher, she replied by quoting Suzuki-Roshi.

When you are you,
Zen is Zen.

She went on to explain that if one is trans, then the transition is not an expression of "attachment to preference," but is a method by which one can realize their true nature. Since realizing one's true nature seems to be a big part of the Buddhism I've been exposed to thus far, it would seem that Soto Zen Buddhism at least would be quite supportive of "being trans."

Or, at least this particular teacher in this particular sangha is supportive.

I'm one of those people who believe that everyone should meditate. Some method could be taught during the school years. The results couldn't be anything but positive, something we could all share..............When someone tells me they are stressing or their vexed I try to turn them on to meditation and explain how easy, beneficial and not weird it can be. The practice just seems so foreign and to big of a pardigm shift I guess.

Meditation isn't easy for someone who's never had to control their mind.

Yea I know this will sound weird coming from me, but I can call myself a Buddhist. However I still hold a strong stance against religion so yea. I concur with much of what the great Buddha taught, but when it comes to being trans, it's just another lesson of existence. That is all. 

Quote from: Eryk on September 07, 2009, 01:26:35 AM
I do have a friend who holds that belief--that one can never be happy as long as they are attached to Earthly things.  He classifies the body as being in the realm of 'Earthly' things.  He basically sees transition as wholly unnecessary, because the spirit should transcend the body.  The guy keeps reiterating over and over that I will never be happy if I am so over-concerned with my body that I must change it.  I keep getting the feeling from him that I'm somehow spiritually flawed for transitioning (direct quote: "you wouldn't be doing this if you weren't so preoccupied and over-concerned with your body"). 

If this is the view, I thankfully do not adhere to Buddhism (neither does he, really, but it has heavily influenced his belief system).  However, I can't say whether my friend's interpretation is representative of all Buddhists.

Sounds like your friend needs more buddhist practice!  A devout buddhist probably wouldn't see the need to transition themselves, but they also wouldn't be attached to the idea that non-buddhists should or should not transition and try to influence it one way or another.

Quote from: Ketsy on September 16, 2009, 04:33:33 AMA devout buddhist probably wouldn't see the need to transition themselves.

Also keep in mind that not only would someone practicing non-attachment see no need to transition, but they also wouldn't see any need not to.

Don't become attached to non-attachment.  Many people make this mistake.  Just because you don't need to do something, isn't a reason not to do it.  Someone who had mastered their state of mind would feel no need to transition.  But also having no attachment to taking the easy road, they could transition anyway.

Suffering isn't caused by actions, as much as how you think about them.  Many people get into Eastern philosophy thinking that avoiding their obsessions is a method for enlightenment, when it is actually the other way around.  Avoiding the world doesn't bring enlightenment.  Engaging the world without obsessing over it does.

Transition or not really isn't the point.  It could be vanilla or chocolate, and the fundamentals of attachment work exactly the same.  It's not the choice that you make that determines whether or not you have attachment, but it is HOW that choice is made.

uhm... sorry?

When one transitions later in life, there is a wonderful opportunity to realize that all fear is brought about by attachment to desire, in other words, that if I manage a company, and have a house, and bank accounts, and reputation, and friends and family, that there is a strong possibility that I will "lose" many or all of these things if I cross genders.  The realization that I consciously give up those attachments, and consequently lose my fear of losing them, can be life changing.
If one choses to see this during transition, then one can see the 4 noble truths lived out in one's life during transition.  The feeling of being free from fear can give one the assurance that "all things are possible" and that if one can cross something so basic to our culture as gender then one can do anything, or nothing....whatever the case.

So in this sense transition can be a vehicle to enlightenment and becomes entirely necessary for some of us.  Hooray!

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on September 15, 2009, 03:30:14 PM
In discussing this with my teacher, she replied by quoting Suzuki-Roshi.

When you are you,
Zen is Zen.

She went on to explain that if one is trans, then the transition is not an expression of "attachment to preference," but is a method by which one can realize their true nature. Since realizing one's true nature seems to be a big part of the Buddhism I've been exposed to thus far, it would seem that Soto Zen Buddhism at least would be quite supportive of "being trans."

Or, at least this particular teacher in this particular sangha is supportive.

This is basically what a yoga teacher I know who is buddhist told me as well. He was very supportive of becoming your true self, and therefore of being trans to accomplish that if that's what it takes.

Although I am not a Buddhist, our culture has been under strong influence of Buddhism. As I lived in the US for about 10 years, I immediately feel the difference regarding transgender issues. Yes. Most people here do not like my crossdressing, but I have never felt any hositlity. They just don't like my crossdressing, but they do not hate me.

In the case of US, some Catholics hated me as if I were a kind of demon. At that time, I had several Buddhist friends, and they truely understand and accept my transsexualim. One of them said to me that he thougt and thougt again over my crossdressing for several days, finally concluding that I am fine. Zen Buddhism especially teaches us that we should not judge whether it is right or wrong. Every pheonomenon has its own cause.

Barbie~~

wow, those are great sentences, which built from the experience.
I totally agree with you, the attachment is the source of suffering, and we must change our perspective to figure out what it is that we really have to do. :D :D :D

Quote from: Miniar on September 15, 2009, 08:22:40 AM
Buddhism teaches you that your attachment to your worldly possessions and desires are the reason for suffering. Suffering isn't really the right word, more accurately it's "disquietude" (and constant disquietude does cause suffering).

A thought has circled in my mind for a long time where I've begun rethinking how I saw it.

I used to see it as this.
- My attachment to the idea that I "should" be male causes me suffering.
- My attachment to the (discomfort of the) body I'm in causes me suffering.
- My fear of accepting my life as it is.
These were the attachments I attempted to overcome.
I saw it as the "right" way to go.

The more I think about it however, I realize that there's more too it than that.
- My attachment to the role I was given.
- My attachment to pleasing others.
- My attachment to my body the way it is, and all things connected to that.
- My fear of change.
- My fear of the physical effects of transition.
- My fear of loosing people.
etc, etc, etc, ..
You see where I'm going with this no?

When I gave up on trying to be something I'm not and simply accepted I am who I am, and let go of my attachment to the "idea" of who I was "supposed" to be, it changed everything.

There's more than one side to everything we experience. Sometimes, we got to change our perspective to figure out what it is that we really have to do.

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Post Merge: April 23, 2010, 05:25:31 AM

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I agree with you that Every pheonomenon has its own cause, and let it be.... :D :D :D

Quote from: barbie on October 13, 2009, 10:13:41 AM
Although I am not a Buddhist, our culture has been under strong influence of Buddhism. As I lived in the US for about 10 years, I immediately feel the difference regarding transgender issues. Yes. Most people here do not like my crossdressing, but I have never felt any hositlity. They just don't like my crossdressing, but they do not hate me.

In the case of US, some Catholics hated me as if I were a kind of demon. At that time, I had several Buddhist friends, and they truely understand and accept my transsexualim. One of them said to me that he thougt and thougt again over my crossdressing for several days, finally concluding that I am fine. Zen Buddhism especially teaches us that we should not judge whether it is right or wrong. Every pheonomenon has its own cause.

Barbie~~

Quote from: Miniar on September 17, 2009, 12:04:03 PM
uhm... sorry?

Look at it this way:  attachment to non-worldy things isn't any more enlightened than attachment to wordly things.  Attachment is attachment is attachment.  If you sit around on some mountaintop all day meditating because you think you have to, you are not really enlightened.  If you sit around on some mountaintop all day because you enjoy sitting around on mountaintops, that is another matter entirely.

I recently outed myself as trans to one of the two Soto sanghas with which I affiliate. Only welcoming words were shared, and I received the following comment via email from the priest:

QuoteAs you know, life is constant transitioning! All things are change!  ... just be who you are my friend. You know that.

And you know that Kannon made the same switchless switch ...
[In] original conception Kannon was male as was Sakyamuni Buddha. ... Though initially male, Kannon became a beauteous female in China, perhaps because the male-dominated Confucian tradition does not readily express the tenderness of compassion. She gained a foothold in the hearts of the common people, peasants and fishermen and remains to this day.
From bottom of page 223 here

http://books.google.com/books?id=iV9XjJw1YwIC&pg=PA224&lpg=PA224&dq=kannon+guanyin+male+female&source=bl&ots=o_rKGBjhHh&sig=ei1y6iyV-jk5Ekb0nWAT-g-yLdA&hl=en&ei=Ly1zTOuTAZSEvAPr2fzFDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=kannon%20guanyin%20male%20female&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=iV9XjJw1YwIC&pg=PA224&lpg=PA224&dq=kannon+guanyin+male+female&source=bl&ots=o_rKGBjhHh&sig=ei1y6iyV-jk5Ekb0nWAT-g-yLdA&hl=en&ei=Ly1zTOuTAZSEvAPr2fzFDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=kannon%20guanyin%20male%20female&f=false)

Gassho

Another quote I like is,
" Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
    After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."

I also recently ran across a citation from some old Buddhist sutra in which Buddha was said to have been asked about a couple of cases in which a female nun had become male, and a male monk had become female, and Buddha decreed that each participate in the sangha appropriate for the gender to which ze had changed.

I should've bookmarked it, as I was unable to find it again when I posted my previous reply.

well above all buddhism is really about helping others, keeping good karma and such, so id think as long as your goal doesnt get in the way of keeping your heart kind and open to help all who need it, it would be ok. only when you would use others in a bad way to reach your goal would it be bad, and of course i dont think any of us wants that weather were Buddhist or not right?


however reaching spiritual enlightenment means giving up earthly possessions and such, which might be a bit hazy when it comes to your body. it is an earthly thing, but is it a possession? is it really yours, or does it belong to the universe? of course, there are many lives to gain enlightenment, and you experience only one right now, so if this is the case, then simply you must wait till another life to be enlightened.

Quote from: bellbell on September 04, 2010, 12:25:13 PMwell above all buddhism is really about helping others, keeping good karma and such, so id think as long as your goal doesnt get in the way of keeping your heart kind and open to help all who need it, it would be ok. only when you would use others in a bad way to reach your goal would it be bad, and of course i dont think any of us wants that weather were Buddhist or not right?


however reaching spiritual enlightenment means giving up earthly possessions and such, which might be a bit hazy when it comes to your body. it is an earthly thing, but is it a possession? is it really yours, or does it belong to the universe? of course, there are many lives to gain enlightenment, and you experience only one right now, so if this is the case, then simply you must wait till another life to be enlightened.

The sort of buddhism you describe here seems somewhat removed from the Zen & Vipassana in which I've been raised up. Buddhism has grown many faces since it got started.

Releasing attachment to things is subtly, but meaningfully, distinct from giving up the things themselves.

But there may be room for some interesting puzzling over the relationship between dysphoria and aversion as understood within philosophical buddhism.

Interesting stuff SydneyT

Personally I tend to take issue with the word 'trans'...as in betwixt what exactly? I arrived a long time ago baby....lol

So have no identity issue at all, and cannot see anyways how specific sex or gender impacts on the faith... unless of the Christo/Muslim/Mormon variety....

However monasteries in Tibet are single sex....me thinks? So some seperation there exists....

Right here, right now the practice of Buddhism in the 21st century for me is permanently wrestling with the internal challenge of seeking enlightenment.... and that will always be ongoing... in my case...

But I like these words:
The Way is beyond language
for in it there is
no yesterday...
no tomorrow...
no today....
Please treasure yourself!

Quote from: SydneyTinker on September 04, 2010, 04:08:32 PM
The sort of buddhism you describe here seems somewhat removed from the Zen & Vipassana in which I've been raised up. Buddhism has grown many faces since it got started.

Releasing attachment to things is subtly, but meaningfully, distinct from giving up the things themselves.

But there may be room for some interesting puzzling over the relationship between dysphoria and aversion as understood within philosophical buddhism.

really, i think there are too many forms of Buddhism to single out as a main form, i mean no matter what branch you fall under, you follow your heart and the hearts closest to you, which forms its own little branch. you sprout ideas that will be in some one elses view and not in others, making it your own :p 

true, but myself i see my gender issues as an attachment to this world, which like other attachments, would keep me from enlightenment. there are some who will believe otherwise, and that is ok, because for them it may not be :p



yea, i think there is alot to study in Buddhism, and it is very interesting because unlike most religions, almost all of it can coincide, almost all of it can be right, and no one must be hurt because they are pushed out by others ideals of the true form of buddhism, like you can sometimes get with the different kinds of Christianity and such. it just very interesting, you can get in deep thoughts easily with it, especially things like reincarnation :p

Hi sister SydneyTinker, I think you are right, I was reading similiar artikel about the man had became woman (real woman) in the Buddha's era, and that woman had 2 children in the Dhammapada Athakata.
The point of that story is not about Transgender.
I think in the Buddhism has never reject, curse or something like that about transgender. The Buddha said, our body is only has 4 elements, and the holiness is not the body itself, but purify the heart and mind, and good thing will make us to reach our goal, happiness (the real holiness).
The points of the teaching of the Buddha are: do not do evil things, do the good things, purify the heart and mind, these are the teaching of all Buddhas (Dhammapada: 183)
So, I'm happy be Buddhism and be a woman (transgender woman), because no one reject my existance or curse or something like that, so I'm happy :D :D :D

Quote from: SydneyTinker on August 28, 2010, 06:22:27 PM
I also recently ran across a citation from some old Buddhist sutra in which Buddha was said to have been asked about a couple of cases in which a female nun had become male, and a male monk had become female, and Buddha decreed that each participate in the sangha appropriate for the gender to which ze had changed.

I should've bookmarked it, as I was unable to find it again when I posted my previous reply.

My practice involves being in the present moment and accepting sensation, thought, and emotion as they arise.

I guess the instructor at my retreat this month said it best when I asked him about my concern that vipassana might deprogram my internal gender as it obliterates craving and aversion as reaction to sensation:

"If you feel revulsion toward a part of your body as your focus passes over it, step back and feel the accompanying sensations. Maybe tell yourself that "this is how I am, and that's just fine."

At first I thought he was saying that my body was just fine how it is, and that these sensations were just something that I would accept and my gender would somehow just melt away. Turns out that when I examined them I simply found that they could be there without me feeling disgust or longing to be something else. Now they just are, and that's just fine. Now I can act while holding myself in stillness. I can become a woman without it being a reaction.

Really, that's the main message I received from our talks. However you feel is just fine. Just be present with it, and observe it. Observe without judgement.

So I guess my practice is compatible with me being a girly, and that's just fine!

Be present! Observe!

I like to hear this, thanks for the good info sister :D :D :D

Quote from: alia on October 24, 2010, 02:31:50 AM
My practice involves being in the present moment and accepting sensation, thought, and emotion as they arise.

I guess the instructor at my retreat this month said it best when I asked him about my concern that vipassana might deprogram my internal gender as it obliterates craving and aversion as reaction to sensation:

"If you feel revulsion toward a part of your body as your focus passes over it, step back and feel the accompanying sensations. Maybe tell yourself that "this is how I am, and that's just fine."

At first I thought he was saying that my body was just fine how it is, and that these sensations were just something that I would accept and my gender would somehow just melt away. Turns out that when I examined them I simply found that they could be there without me feeling disgust or longing to be something else. Now they just are, and that's just fine. Now I can act while holding myself in stillness. I can become a woman without it being a reaction.

Really, that's the main message I received from our talks. However you feel is just fine. Just be present with it, and observe it. Observe without judgement.

So I guess my practice is compatible with me being a girly, and that's just fine!

Be present! Observe!

Quote from: SydneyTinker on September 04, 2010, 04:08:32 PM
Releasing attachment to things is subtly, but meaningfully, distinct from giving up the things themselves.

I tend to agree with the "chop wood, carry water" approach.  It's not that you do anything differently in life once you are enlightened, but it's a matter of how you do it.  The point of enlightenment is to eliminate the "need" for worldly things.  Not having a "need" for worldly things is not the same thing as not having worldly things.  For example, I love my Playstation.  But I don't need my Playstation.

Some people try to use enlightenment as an excuse for why they shouldn't transition.  This is also foolish.  They are only replacing the attachment to gender with an attachment for making their lives easier.  The truly enlightened person would transition anyway, knowing that it would make their life difficult, despite having eliminated the need to do so.

I have two stories to share regarding Buddhism and trans.

The first from my MTF partner who attended a meditation group on the west coast some years ago led by a transwoman who told the story of her coming out to her teacher some years before. The teacher's response? "So what do we call you now."

In other words, non-issue.

The second story is of my own very first meeting of a trans person about 5 years ago. I was at a women only meditation retreat in northern California. I had noticed this attractive, very tall woman in the dining hall, even taller than me which is unusual (I am 6', natal female). Towards the end of the retreat we met in small groups to practice talking and sharing- it was a silent retreat until then. She sat next to me. We each shared intimately about our partners, our lives, our suffering, our joys. Everyone seemed to be struggling so much with intimate relationships. When it was my turn, I shared, for the first time with anyone that my partner and I had a very loving, spiritual, deep and sexually passionate relationship, but that she (then he) shared with me that she (he) wanted to be a woman, and that I found that rather confusing. Next up was this transwoman, who I had no idea was trans. When she spoke, I immediately knew she was trans. I don't remember a word she said; I was transfixed (uh...get it....) just realizing who she was.

After the retreat was over, and we could talk freely, she and I walked to the parking lot together. I eagerly asked her questions (including, the naive and innocent "have you had the surgery") which she kindly answered (though not that impolite one...). She complimented me in a way that I will always remember: "you are obviously an amazing woman!"

I was so proud of the meditation center for accepting this, and all transwomen to be included in the women's retreat. Buddhism has much to teach the west. I am vry grateful to it.

Peace.
Ruby

"chop wood, carry water"

I've always understood that to mean that enlightened or not, life goes on.  It does not free you from the day to day responsibilities of keeping on living.  There is no magic moment that 'changes everything'.  What is hard work before, is still hard work after.

We ought to change it to
Before Transition: Chop wood, carry water,
After Transition: Chop wood, carry water.

Quote from: tekla on January 15, 2011, 08:46:09 PM
We ought to change it to
Before Transition: Chop wood, carry water,
After Transition: Chop wood, carry water.

It is funny isn't it- I percieve some people's quest to be "free of dysphoria" to mean "free of suffering." Suffering doesn't end. Your perception of suffering does. It unfolds into experience :)

What you are is constantly changing, who you are never changes.

The idea of non-attachment meaning that one does not transition seems to me a false one.

I see people becoming attached to non-attachment. This is more of an ascetic type of existence, one that the Buddha left behind in favor of a middle way or more balanced approach. It's as foolish to say "I have non-attachment to food therefore I won't eat" as it is to say "I must only eat caviar and Kobe beef". You can afford a box a mac and cheese, eat it with mindfulness.

Transition is something that I feel I need to do and I try to approach it as mindfully and deliberately as I am able to. I helps me to understand who I am and my attachment to things (as others have said). It is also giving me many lessons in compassion as my wife is a part of this process.

I belong to a Chinese Ch'an sect of Buddhism very similar to Zen. I have not yet come out to my sangha but since they are people I expect some mixed reactions and hopefully acceptance.

I am posting it again in this thread as it might be a bit more appropriate space for it. All trans people ask themselves this exact question: why am I the I am? I have my theory on this, and it's nothing scientific in the remotest sense. Its sort of a religious/.spiritual theory. I am an avid Buddhist practitioner, not a Buddhist theologian, so those who are, please excuse my half-baked theory. One of the key aspects of Buddhism is the theory of karma. Back in 1997 I came across a Tibetan Buddhist text "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" and it is quite specific in three places that people are reincarnated into specific sexes karmically. So if you were supposed to be born a man, but somehow biologically something goes wrong (for example, as in my case your mother suffers from calcium deficiency that requires her to take calcium supplements all the time, meaning that there is a high level of calcium in her body at the time of conception which is now proven to expel the Y chromosome), and you are born a female, karmically you are still experiencing the world as a male because that's your karma. I'm sure it's a little wild, but I had not had a backlash from the Buddhist institutions in my country alhtough I had very publicly promoted this view on a national television...

Reincarnation and past lives. I also believe it. Without it, it is impossible to explain my transgenderism that started at age 3.

Barbie~~

Sorry for bumping a 18-month-old thread. But I believe it's an important resource, since some trans people, frustrated with "Puritan" religions, but feeling some need to develop their minds using some kind of spiritual training, might come across this very interesting thread, and thus my motivation to push it to the top again :)

There is an International Transgender Buddhist Sangha (http://transgenderandreligion.blogspot.pt/). I tend to use that website as a starting point to explore things related to transgenderism and Buddhism. To put it shortly, it would be strange to "exclude" anyone from Buddhism, but of course some schools might offer some different approaches to transgenderism.

Specifically in Mahayana Buddhism (Zen/Ch'an, and of course all Vajrayana Buddhism), it makes no sense to "exclude" anyone from Buddhism — we all have the same Buddha nature, no matter what gender or species we are (it doesn't even matter if we believe in having a Buddha nature or not; we have it nevertheless), so it would be rather pointless to exclude transgendered people from Buddhism. Even if you wish to be an ordained monk/nun, there are some quaint rules in the Vinaya (which lists the precepts and vows) specifically for transgendered people: for instance, you are not to receive the liberation vows if you change gender three times.

One might wonder why this was made a rule 2600 years ago! Unless a qualified teacher is well aware of transgendered issues, they might shrug this rule away and attribute it to cultural issues. But the reality is actually quite pragmatic: rules for women and men are slightly different, not because of cultural discrimination, but to protect women (remember, even today, women are culturally seen as a "lesser" type of human throughout most of Asia. The Buddha was well aware that concerned parents would never allow their daughters to get ordination if they weren't absolutely sure that their virtue would remain intact, and this required a few extra rules to make sure they were well protected). So someone changing gender often (even today, there are few cases of people doing the switch three times — there are a few who did it twice, though) would constantly have to start their training and their practices from scratch, which would be, frankly, rather wasteful. Changing it once, however, would not be a problem. Even on the most Puritan Buddhist schools, they will have to abide by that rule.

On the Vajrayana schools, tantric practice definitely requires a clear split between genders — it simply doesn't work any other way. So, in my understanding, if you have GID, to achieve the best results, you should most definitely transition — specially if you're serious about your practice and wish to proceed swiftly. Otherwise, if your mind is so misaligned with your body, the practice won't work out — you'd be doing the "wrong" practice for your mind. Or, putting it in more conventional Western words, you'd be so stressed out to be "forced" to do a practice which is not appropriate for your perceived gender, that you'd have a hard time relaxing your mind and actually enjoying the practice... which is the whole point of doing it.

Obviously, I'm not a teacher, so I might be completely wrong. I would imagine that a Vajrayana teacher, aware of the issues, would be kind enough to point a trans person to a different kind of method (there are, fortunately, thousands of them) until you can get your mind and body properly aligned again. Because in Vajrayana practice, the body is not seen as "evil" or a "source of problems" — something to be rejected — as in some Theravada schools. Rather, the body participates in the enlightenment process; it's one of the required tools for that. So I feel rather confident that a good, qualified teacher, with a proper understanding of trans issues, would do their best to help someone in their transition, so that they can get back to their practice.

VeryGnawty has already said a lot about the whole issue of a certain (mis-)understanding that people have about attachment, so I shall not comment more on that — just to reinforce what she said: Buddhists don't renounce to pleasure. They renounce to their attachment to pleasure, which is a completely different story! The result is that a truly enlightened being cares little if they are physically male or female, and will display whatever gender is more appropriate for better helping people out. Since they have absolutely no attachment to being either male or female, they might have no qualms in transitioning, if they think that's a better way to help others.

Of course, truly enlightened beings are rare — there are certainly a few around, and we might even come across them now and then without having a clue (they certainly won't advertise!) — but, while on the journey to enlightenment, practitioners will most certainly do their best to deal with their conflicting emotions and habitual tendencies. This has some interesting consequences. I've written a long text last December about how trans people can use Buddhist methods to decrease their anxiety and frustration levels about their condition (http://feminina.info/2012/12/07/crossdressing-techniques-to-deal-with-urges-anxiety-and-disappointment/). Roughly speaking, it means training your own mind to give a bit less importance to what you feel and think. This does not mean to suppress your feelings or thoughts — these are what make you a human being! A brain is made to think; a central nervous system is made to have sensations and feed them into the brain; both are natural for a human being, and "suppressing" either of them is simply nonsense (we cannot change the way we are, we can only change the way we think we are).

With practice, however, one can learn to deal with what we think and what we feel. And even if we're not "truly enlightened", we can at least achieve a point where our thoughts about ourselves don't stress us out. We will still feel those thoughts and emotions (in fact, because we have learned to pay better attention overall, those thoughts and emotions might even be felt more intensively!). But we will not feel compelled by them; we learn that we have a choice to act upon them.

And, for many transgendered Buddhists, this can simply mean to go ahead with transition and don't worry too much about what happens afterwards. For others, it means that transitioning (or not!) might not be ultimately so pressing, so stressing, so filled with anxiety. This can become rather important for someone who just realized late in their life that they are transgendered, and are in the middle of an emotional roller-coaster: they might feel the urge to transition, but, on the other hand, since there is so much to lose, they might also stress out about the whole idea — and feel their emotions jump crazily from one extreme to the other: "I must transition or I'll get crazy!" and "If I go through transition, I will lose everything in my life, and that drives me crazy too!". With enough meditation practice, one will see how these two extremes are just exaggerations, and how the strong emotions tied to each extreme are nothing more than our own thoughts, to which we give an exaggerated importance and attribute too much "reality". In fact, neither extreme is "ultimately true", but it was just our own mind which fabricated them. Once we realize that, well, then we don't need to act in a conditioned way. Sure, we will still feel the strong urge to transition, but we can be rational about it: take measures, plan ahead, work towards transition in a step-by-step way, without anxiety about what will happen. And we might still feel the fear of rejection, of financial problems, of future discrimination and so forth, but all those fears will be just seen as being expectations of a future that doesn't exist yet, and given less importance: we will pay attention to them, if and when they actually become true (i.e. we will be aware of discrimination when it happens; but we won't spend sleepless nights in fear that we might get discriminated, and postpone transition because of that — and having to deal longer with the urges towards transition because we're postponing everything!).

What I've always repeated on my own article (and elsewhere) is that Buddhist techniques aren't "magic". It's not as if you joined a secret tennis club and immediately become a tennis champion the moment you join. These methods and techniques take a long time to learn and to master, and, like everything in our lives, they require training. Think about how many hours you had to learn to apply makeup so that it looks great on your face — neither too much, nor too little — but eventually you reach a point where makeup becomes natural and is done without fear of "doing something wrong" or anxiety of "taking too much time". Once you've mastered the technique, you just do it, and that's all there is to it. The same happened with pretty much everything we've learned — from tying our shoelaces to reading and writing; from riding a bike to driving a car. We start with small steps, where everything seems to be difficult, but by training every day, eventually it becomes "instinctive" and we just laugh at how silly we were at the beginning, because now it's so easy to do.

Buddhist meditation works precisely like that. At the beginning it seems impossible to deal with our strongest emotions and deepest thought. For a transgendered person who sees the whole transition as the single most important event in their lives, which consumes all their energy and time in thinking about it, which causes endless pain, fear, frustration, anxiety, worries, and depression — even the idea of someone saying that "it's just a thought; we can learn to deal with it" might seem... well, a blasphemy. Or lack of respect. Or a claim from someone who has absolutely no idea what they're really talking about.

But the truth is that it's not really much different from learning to drive a car. For most of us, after the first driving lesson, we will believe that it's impossible to learn so many things at the same time, paying attention to so many details, knowing what to do in so many different situations. We might say, "driving is not for me; I will never be able to learn it; I'm just not a 'driver type', it requires a special talent". But if we persist and train more and more, we'll soon be laughing at how easy it becomes with training. Sure, it might take a few weeks for some — or years in my case! — until we're comfortable with driving. But once we've mastered it, we can tell others, who have just had their driving lesson, that we have gone through that, and understand what they feel, and explain them that the more they train, the easier it will become — because it will become natural. And once we master driving it can become an enjoyable activity. It's just us that are exaggerating the difficulties because it's all so new to us.

Dealing with any other of our frustrations and anxieties is exactly the same thing. At the beginning it seems ludicrous to believe that just learning properly how to observe our own thoughts will help out in lessening the sense of frustration or even depression about our transgendered situation. And the "beginning" can actually take a long time (unlike driving lessons, which, after a few, are enough to give us plenty of confidence to let us believe that we can actually learn to drive!) — just because frustration, anxiety, existential angst and so forth are overwhelming feelings to which we're so used to that it seems impossible that they're not "a part of us". So, recognising those emotions as they are — merely thoughts that we're constantly reinforcing — is not easy. It's actually very hard to do so! That's why it takes a lot of time to learn to deal with them.

But, eventually, after a while we might start noticing some differences. I can only give my own example. I'm not even sure if I'm a transsexual or not; I seriously suspect that I'm a "suppressed transsexual" (a crossdresser who makes an effort not to think too much about transition, except in dreams), but I have no medical evaluation about that condition, so I don't really know. Nevertheless, as a crossdresser, I feel the constant urge to get dressed. When I cannot, for some reason (almost always because someone — either my wife, my friends, etc. have "suddenly" come up with something that prevents me from having some time free for me), then obviously I get very frustrated, and even quite angry — or hopelessly sad. But even when I finally managed to dress, I was aware that I could only enjoy that feeling for a few hours — then I had to undress, pack everything, and who knows how many days I had to wait to get dressed again. This obviously made me very frustrated. In some extreme cases, it was so frustrating that I didn't even dress when I had some time free — because dealing with the frustration of getting undressed again was simply too much. In other cases, I just stayed awake for as long as I could, often watching the sun rise, and only then, collapsing with sleep, I would finally undress and go to bed... shedding a few tears in frustration for not being able to stay awake a bit longer.

I'm sure that many of you have gone through similar experiences.

Well, after a few years of daily practice, there was one day when I actually noticed that I wasn't so frustrated as usual when starting to undress. I just observed how great that day/night had been and how much I've enjoyed it. But now the day was finished — why spoil all the fun I had being dressed and focus only on the frustration of having to undress? It seemed a bit stupid. I had a great time. Those memories would last a few days for sure. I did enjoy myself. So why spoil that feeling? So it was with a smile that I finally hit the bed, enjoying the pleasure of those still fresh memories.

And a few months later, when I had everything planned to have another session, my wife, with pinpoint accuracy, told me that I had to "sacrifice" my crossdressing day because she wanted to go shopping for food. Usually this made me feel furious at her, and then, afterwards, push me into frustration nearing depression for a few days. But that time neither of those things happened. I just thought, well, I have no control over what happens over my life. So what? I'm supposed to enjoy spending time with my wife (after all, that's why we stick together!). Sure, shopping for food precisely on the exact time I had set apart for crossdressing is frustrating — but that's just because I view crossdressing as "more important" than shopping for food. Or even "more important" than spending some time with my wife (even if most people wouldn't think that pushing trolleys through aisles is not the perfect date!). Well, isn't that just having the wrong priorities in my life? I could always dress on a different day. Allowing my foul temper to rise and being angry at my wife would just make her angry, too, and she might throw up a tantrum and make my next days miserable. Would that be worth all the trouble? Of course not. I certainly didn't exactly jump to it with enthusiasm and eagerness, but just agreed and remained silent. That way, no harsh words were exchanged. Since I refused to vent my anger and frustration at her, she had no reason to pick at me. The dressing was postponed, and the next time I had a bit of time free, I just enjoyed it even more — because at least I didn't have to deal with a furious wife, but just with a tolerant one. This was just so much more reasonable.

Obviously I was both angry and frustrated. But by being able to choose not to say anything, and not triggering a round of word warfare with my wife, that day passed without any arguments. Obviously I wasn't exactly radiating joy and happiness — but at least I wasn't acting upon my frustrations. I wasn't "suppressing" my anger, I was just determined not to let my anger drive my actions. I'm pretty sure my wife knows very well that she has thwarted my little moments of enjoyment, but I refuse to let these become a source of heated discussion. And, by doing that as part of my mental training, I found out that it becomes easier with time. I just learned to accept those feelings and emotions, and also learned that I don't need to act according to them. With time they will also become less strong. The urge to crossdress is stronger than ever before — like with any other CD, the intensity of that urge grows with time, as we get more used to it — but, on the other hand, the frustration about not being able to dress when I want has decreased dramatically. And, perhaps more to the point, the anger at my wife for her impossible timetable which deprives me of all free time has also decreased — I learned to understand better her own priorities, and to accept that my crossdressing urges are not a priority at all for her. Why should it be? She definitely tolerates it, but it's not as if it's something that is enjoyable for her, or useful in any regard for her. So, being able to view things from her point of view, I lessened my anger, but also my frustration. Just by noticing that two people who share so many things together view this thing in completely different ways has shown me that the urge to crossdress is not something that intrinsically exists by itself: it's just something that I create in my mind, even if I'm not truly aware of it. For me, it looks like it's part of myself and that I cannot do anything about it; but that's not really true. I most certainly can do something about it. At the very least, I can change the way I deal with my anger and frustration.

I should point out that I'm not a good practitioner! If I were, I wouldn't be writing posts about my frustrations and ranting to other CD friends about how, once again, my wife thwarted my plans (which she does in 70% of all opportunities to dress; 20-25% being taken by other people who also request my little spare time). I certainly feel the anger and frustration, just as before. But I'm much better at dealing with it. It's not my wife's fault for not being so excited about my crossdressing as I am; she has just a different viewpoint. By having learned that, I was able also to learn a lot about myself — namely, that I'm not so patient as I thought I was :) But I can become better at being patient. It pays off. The less angry my wife is about my crossdressing, the more opportunities I've got. The more often I indulge in her tiniest wishes, thus acting according to her priorities, the more she is willing to respect my own priorities. The more I understand my own urges, the better I understand why she is so unreasonably worried about me getting "spotted" wearing women's clothes in public (which makes her curb my wishes to spend some time out with some CD friends). Her own worries are as "unresonable" and "irrational" as my crossdressing urges — which I obviously think differently about. But I'm learning to think differently about it.

Very slowly. But it works :)

Eventually, at some point, I will be able to feel absolutely zero frustration about my crossdressing urges. When that happens, crossdressing will just be pure pleasure. I will be perfectly aware that those days will be rare and completely satisfied about that. I will be also completely aware that I cannot dress more than a few hours — sometimes 6, sometimes 10 — but eventually I will have to undress and go to sleep, and that is simply how things are: it's pointless to feel sad or frustrated about something that has to finish: everything must finish at some point, after all. And, conversely, eventually my wife will also lessen her own worries about my crossdressing, and allow me to go out more. Possibly even considering transition at some point; but both her and myself just need to become better at dealing with our own emotions and feelings. This just takes time, but it's not impossible.

And perhaps at that time I might even be able to transition just to be able to better help other transgendered persons, and, drawing from my own experience, teaching them the very same techniques that allowed me to deal with everything, step by step. This is a bit what those groups of transgendered Buddhists are doing right now. Many have transgendered meditation teachers who have gone through this process. At the point where transitioning or not transitioning was pretty much the same for them, they asked themselves: what will be more helpful for other transgendered people? For some of them, the answer was that by transitioning, they will be better able to give a good example of how the techniques work, since they will be able to form a closer bond with them, as they share something in common. There are a few old sayings in Buddhist writings explaining that a teacher will appear when the students are ready; and that Buddhist teachers will appear in whatever form is better for the students to develop confidence in the methods. I can very well imagine that a transgendered teacher will have it much easier to explain Buddhist methods to transgendered students: it's just that they can see the example they've set, see how Buddhism doesn't reject anyone, and that it's no big deal being transgendered or not — we can all learn the same methods and achieve the same results, no matter who we are or how we look like.

A good Buddhist teacher has no personal interests; all the interests they have is to help out their students. To do so, they will employ whatever methods are best to develop their students to their fullest potential. If they have transgendered students who need some encouragement that it's "all right" for transgendered persons to learn Buddhist methods and techniques, then I have no doubts that a good teacher who is also transgendered will have no qualms in transitioning. Not because they "want" or "need" it, but because they will know that this is the best way to develop the confidence of their students, by setting an example.

Kia Ora Sandra,

Excellent post....

We are what we 'think' ! But we are not our 'thoughts' ! And therein lies the 'paradox'  :o  ;) 


Metta Zenda :)

I might be able to shed a little light on this subject too even though it's a little older thread.

I was stationed in Korea for 2 years and for 18 months learned a little about Buddhism. Don't even know what sect and didn't even ask or want to know and not really important in my eyes. Spent a lot of time on the weekends talking to the monks in the temple about a mile or so outside of the gates. Started learning how to meditate. Learned how even the lowest lifeform among us serves a purpose and is important even the vermin and pests. It's not a 1,2,3 experience learning to meditate and actually, for lack of a better word, find your innerself. I have been doing it for almost twenty years now and still have a hard time. Trying to fully empty your mind is the hardest to overcome. Enlightenment comes in steps unless your spirit is much higher than what most, if not all are on this planet. How many people in this world would give up a kingdom to beg for food in order to seek enlightenment like the first Buddha? I wouldn't.

As for worldly attachments. Cars, homes, bank accounts and yes food and your body are and can be attachments. Anything can be an attachment, even the search for enlightenment. Food is meant to sustain the body. You can be attached to foods if you are eating for pleasure instead of sustanance. Transsexualism also can be an attachment if it's for gratifying the physical self. Same goes with homosexuality and heterosexuality. If you truly feel the opposite gender inside than what you are outside change it , because we have evolved to the point to where we can actually change the physical gender of the human body. Having technology and not using it doesn't make sense unless it is something used negatively. Or just embrace it and transcend the social gender roles. We are supposed to see ourselves as Spirits occupying and using a physical body instead of a bag of meat and bones that is conscious of itself. The whole thing in a nutshell is that we are supposed to let what is within project outward to the world. Sadly it is just the opposite, too many people let what is outward project in and taint the Spirit with materialism and that gets projected back out.

Karma is the idea of what you put out comes back to you. It can be in this incarnation, the next or later down the line but you will have to experience it unless you truly learn the Karmic lesson in this incarnation in which case you learned and don't have to experience it. Karma is not punishment but rather a learning lesson. If you cause pain then you have to suffer the same sort unless you change spirtually. I've since moved from Buddhism and into I don't know what to call it.

Enlightenment isn't a guarantee of supreme happiness, the end of pain and suffering and all the other bad things in this world but rather to accept all the ailments, pain and so on and use them to learn from. Like someone else said, you still have to chop wood and carry water. Even after enlightenment the first Buddha still begged for food and wondered the world but was teaching others about enlightenment. Enlightenment will however take away the fear of death and what is beyond even though we can't really comprehend it. It will let you see others as unique Souls too on differing paths. That you can face discrimination and hate but not hate and discriminate back. 

Since this is the Buddhism thread and the dynamics of reincarnation is such a big part of it. What I have learned from pastlife regressions, not mine because I choose not to know but in reading of others and my own meditation is that our Souls have aspects of both genders. Spiritually we are not male or female but both. Over time we become comfortable incarnating as one gender. Even spiritually we choose one gender's attributes but use the aspects of both. But after a while we have to incarnate into the opposite gender physically in order to get the whole experience of a physical existance. Does this mean that you shouldn't transition or embrace who you are inside? I don't know but pretty much believe, like all other spiritual matters, it is up to the individual Spirit. It could be a Karmic lesson for those of us to face discrimination. Could be to face your fears and apprehensions and present your innerself to the world. Could also be that we are a part of the lesson so that others can experience lessons about discrimination. It truly does show how the whole of human existance is tied together though. A good book to read on the subject of reincarnation is The Journey of Souls. I forgot the psychologist's name who worte it but it is enlightening (pun not intended).

Quote from: Jess42 on February 22, 2013, 03:57:26 PM
I might be able to shed a little light on this subject too even though it's a little older thread.

I was stationed in Korea for 2 years and for 18 months learned a little about Buddhism. Don't even know what sect and didn't even ask or want to know and not really important in my eyes. Spent a lot of time on the weekends talking to the monks in the temple about a mile or so outside of the gates. Started learning how to meditate. Learned how even the lowest lifeform among us serves a purpose and is important even the vermin and pests. It's not a 1,2,3 experience learning to meditate and actually, for lack of a better word, find your innerself. I have been doing it for almost twenty years now and still have a hard time. Trying to fully empty your mind is the hardest to overcome. Enlightenment comes in steps unless your spirit is much higher than what most, if not all are on this planet. How many people in this world would give up a kingdom to beg for food in order to seek enlightenment like the first Buddha? I wouldn't.

As for worldly attachments. Cars, homes, bank accounts and yes food and your body are and can be attachments. Anything can be an attachment, even the search for enlightenment. Food is meant to sustain the body. You can be attached to foods if you are eating for pleasure instead of sustanance. Transsexualism also can be an attachment if it's for gratifying the physical self. Same goes with homosexuality and heterosexuality. If you truly feel the opposite gender inside than what you are outside change it , because we have evolved to the point to where we can actually change the physical gender of the human body. Having technology and not using it doesn't make sense unless it is something used negatively. Or just embrace it and transcend the social gender roles. We are supposed to see ourselves as Spirits occupying and using a physical body instead of a bag of meat and bones that is conscious of itself. The whole thing in a nutshell is that we are supposed to let what is within project outward to the world. Sadly it is just the opposite, too many people let what is outward project in and taint the Spirit with materialism and that gets projected back out.

Karma is the idea of what you put out comes back to you. It can be in this incarnation, the next or later down the line but you will have to experience it unless you truly learn the Karmic lesson in this incarnation in which case you learned and don't have to experience it. Karma is not punishment but rather a learning lesson. If you cause pain then you have to suffer the same sort unless you change spirtually. I've since moved from Buddhism and into I don't know what to call it.

Enlightenment isn't a guarantee of supreme happiness, the end of pain and suffering and all the other bad things in this world but rather to accept all the ailments, pain and so on and use them to learn from. Like someone else said, you still have to chop wood and carry water. Even after enlightenment the first Buddha still begged for food and wondered the world but was teaching others about enlightenment. Enlightenment will however take away the fear of death and what is beyond even though we can't really comprehend it. It will let you see others as unique Souls too on differing paths. That you can face discrimination and hate but not hate and discriminate back. 

Since this is the Buddhism thread and the dynamics of reincarnation is such a big part of it. What I have learned from pastlife regressions, not mine because I choose not to know but in reading of others and my own meditation is that our Souls have aspects of both genders. Spiritually we are not male or female but both. Over time we become comfortable incarnating as one gender. Even spiritually we choose one gender's attributes but use the aspects of both. But after a while we have to incarnate into the opposite gender physically in order to get the whole experience of a physical existance. Does this mean that you shouldn't transition or embrace who you are inside? I don't know but pretty much believe, like all other spiritual matters, it is up to the individual Spirit. It could be a Karmic lesson for those of us to face discrimination. Could be to face your fears and apprehensions and present your innerself to the world. Could also be that we are a part of the lesson so that others can experience lessons about discrimination. It truly does show how the whole of human existance is tied together though. A good book to read on the subject of reincarnation is The Journey of Souls. I forgot the psychologist's name who worte it but it is enlightening (pun not intended).

Kia Ora Jess42,

That's an interesting take on what the Buddha taught...

Enlightenment can be liken to this ...The Buddha taught "The Middle Way"  enlightenment is the peaceful 'space' between  two extremes...

In a sense Buddhism does not hold any views on being 'trans' but it does on just 'being'  ;)

Metta Zenda :)

Thank you Kuan Yen. But I must clarify. Most of what I wrote aren't neccisarily the teachings of Buddha. I used Buddhism in the beggining because I really wanted to learn how to meditate and be able to shut all those random thoughts that run through you head off. I tend to shun organized religions because I don't want to be mired down by doctrines and such. It just so happens that my views fall into the same of Buddism. But they also fall into a lot of what Christ taught if you delve into and look for the actual teachings. Whole books were left out of the Bible because they didn't fall into the whole using Christianity as a means of controlling the masses. In other words eternal damnation or eternal bliss couldn't be held over your head if you know the Truth. The Book of Mary and the Book of Judah are two of them. There are others but I can't remember the titles. They're called the Gnostic Books and hint upon so much more than what the accepted books of the New Testament do pertaining to Spirituality. I believe just as much that Christ walked the earth as I do the prince that became the first Buddha. I view them as teachers and more advanced Spirits that come to us from time to time to prod our Spiritual evolution. There were others before Buddha. After Buddha came Yeshua or Christ and soon to be another. Seems to follow rough cycles of every 1800 to 2800 years when religions start dictating what Spirituality is and should be. When man has corrupted Spirituality to a point of a balloon about to bust through religious and governmental establishments. The Spirit starts longing for it's true identity and changes it's perceptions then comes somone to show us the direction to go. It's not a spontanious event though. It takes many years for a spirituality shift.

Total enlightenment is unachievable for us because our Spirits just aren't that advanced yet. If we were, we wouldn't be in an earthly existance, we would have long since moved on. To whatever what, I don't know but willing to bet that it is to advance Spiritually under different circumstances.

My path started as questioning why I was born a male when I longed to be female. Is this a curse or a tool to use? This gave me hints of human duality in which we are Spiritual and physical in nature. I was supposed to go to Germany but at the last minute the military changed it to Korea. Coincidence or not? Then being stationed at a post in which to have a lot of freetime and no field time with a Buddhist temple within walking distance with a monk who spoke and understood my native language good enough to communicate. Another coincidence? I am really starting to get the feeling in later years in my life that there are no coincidences but only choices we have made and are/or presented to us either incarnate or Spiritually before our incarnation. But what is right for me is not right for everyone. For me, I don't think I am supposed to transition. Even though I would love to. Back in the early nineties I even thought about moving to Trinidad CO. because of an article written in GQ, of all magazines, about SRS, a surgeon there and the trans folks in that town. For others, transitioning is what they are supposed to do.

Sorry for the long post but it's hard to say something without a little background as to how I have come to the thought processes that I have.

Quote from: Kuan Yin on February 22, 2013, 11:52:10 PM
[...]Enlightenment can be liken to this ...The Buddha taught "The Middle Way"  enlightenment is the peaceful 'space' between  two extremes...[...]

Hello,

I'm not a Buddhist. However, I do think there is some value to be derived from some concepts in Buddhism. The idea of a 'middle way', i.e. not going to extremes, doing things in moderation, etc, being one which I think sounds like a reasonable philosophy.

A thought that I have had, is that, if one viewed two extremes of dealing with 'gender dysphoria' as complete self repression and 'full' medical transition. Then, one might perhaps consider a 'middle way' to be some variation on 'cross-dressing'. Although I suppose you could also separate bodily change aspects, from role aspects and so on and make interpretation of where 'middle' is much more complicated.

I was just wondering what your thoughts were on the concept of 'middle way' and the ways in which people deal with gender dysphoria?

Also, totally unrelated, but I am just dying to mention that I didn't know 'Kia Ora' was a greeting. Each time I see it in your posts it makes me smile and think of orange juice and this rather cheery old advert, lol!:

Kia Ora Cinema Sales Advert (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z54dT7RTUs#)

Quote from: Q on February 23, 2013, 10:10:47 AM
Hello,

I'm not a Buddhist. However, I do think there is some value to be derived from some concepts in Buddhism. The idea of a 'middle way', i.e. not going to extremes, doing things in moderation, etc, being one which I think sounds like a reasonable philosophy.

A thought that I have had, is that, if one viewed two extremes of dealing with 'gender dysphoria' as complete self repression and 'full' medical transition. Then, one might perhaps consider a 'middle way' to be some variation on 'cross-dressing'. Although I suppose you could also separate bodily change aspects, from role aspects and so on and make interpretation of where 'middle' is much more complicated.

I was just wondering what your thoughts were on the concept of 'middle way' and the ways in which people deal with gender dysphoria?

Also, totally unrelated, but I am just dying to mention that I didn't know 'Kia Ora' was a greeting. Each time I see it in your posts it makes me smile and think of orange juice and this rather cheery old advert, lol!:

Kia Ora Cinema Sales Advert (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z54dT7RTUs#)

Kia Ora Q,

I'm just off to the beach for a swim , so I'll be back later to discuss the "Middle Way"...However in the  meantime [if you are reading this] you might want to look into the Buddhist concept of "Impermanence" ie the impermanent nature of 'all' component things, and "Acceptance of what is" ie, Going with the flow of the situation"...

Some food for thought to chew over...

Bye for now...

Metta Zenda :)

Kia Ora Q,

I've had my swim, soak in the sun and a relaxing read....

So "The Middle Way" out of gender dysphoria :.BTW Sandra. M. Lopes has written quite a bit on this so you might want to check out some of her posts...

The Buddha taught "The Middle Way" which is also known as "The EightFold Path" as a way out of/to end all suffering...
[You can find info on "The Four Noble Truths" and The EightFold Path" elsewhere in the Buddhist section or just google it]

Well first things first, what one really 'needs' to understand/know is Nothing is Permanent !

The whole universe [including our physical form and mental processes] is/are in a constant state of flux, never remaining the same for one moment...

The reason we suffer is because we attempt to 'cling' to what is impermanent-be it ideas or material things...

Think about this for a moment...If gender dysphoria was a "permanent" mental fixture then there would be no relief...

The Buddha taught that there is no permanent abiding self/I that dwells within

What we perceive as "I" 'Me' 'My' 'Self" is just a psycho-physical phenomena which in Buddhism is called the Five Aggregates which consist of Body/Form-Consciousness-Sensation-Perception-Mental Formation[or the karmic activities of the mind].. Each of which is in a constant state of flux, never fixed, always changing from moment to moment...{If one 'thinks' about it, what is 'thinking'?...In a simplistic sense, it's just movement/action confined to the brain] ...Our physical form is made up of cells that are constantly regenerating= birth-death-birth-death and so forth...

Attachment to these Aggregates creates a false sense of 'self' which eventually becomes "self-generating" ...So the trick is to become aware of what's happening in the mind and through this awareness gradually begin to change how one perceives things ...

Awareness does not need a 'self' to operate, it can do its job without a subject.
Meditation will [if done right] help one understand and experience this phenomena at work...

The more we cling to a false sense of 'self' the more we reinforce the concept of a permanent "self" which will eventually lead to the slippery slop of  suffering...That's not to say one can't have  a sense of self but one needs to be aware that it is constantly changing and one needs to go with the flow of change ....

In Buddhism there a lot of talk about renunciation and most people panic when they come across this term, however it just means to give up what is making one suffer, which [along with clinging] is "IGNORANCE" but not the real negative kind of ignorance that is commonly associated when used in English, in Buddhism it just means "NOT KNOWING"...

If one doesn't know what they 'need' to know, then they are prone to make mistakes...

Practice makes perfect, but don't practice to become enlighten-Make enlightenment the expression of your practice...
Q there's much one needs to learn in order to navigate ones way through the Buddha's Dharma, and I'm not a teacher of the Dharma-I'm just a very enthusiastic lay-student who has greatly benefited from the experience...

The Buddha did say "Don't take my word for it-Experience it for your'self'

I hope at least part of what I've written makes some sense....

Metta Zenda :)   

Quote from: Kuan Yin on February 23, 2013, 11:10:30 PM
Kia Ora Q,

I've had my swim, soak in the sun and a relaxing read....

So "The Middle Way" out of gender dysphoria :.BTW Sandra. M. Lopes has written quite a bit on this so you might want to check out some of her posts...

The Buddha taught "The Middle Way" which is also known as "The EightFold Path" as a way out of/to end all suffering...
[You can find info on "The Four Noble Truths" and The EightFold Path" elsewhere in the Buddhist section or just google it]

Well first things first, what one really 'needs' to understand/know is Nothing is Permanent !

The whole universe [including our physical form and mental processes] is/are in a constant state of flux, never remaining the same for one moment...

The reason we suffer is because we attempt to 'cling' to what is impermanent-be it ideas or material things...

Think about this for a moment...If gender dysphoria was a "permanent" mental fixture then there would be no relief...

The Buddha taught that there is no permanent abiding self/I that dwells within

What we perceive as "I" 'Me' 'My' 'Self" is just a psycho-physical phenomena which in Buddhism is called the Five Aggregates which consist of Body/Form-Consciousness-Sensation-Perception-Mental Formation[or the karmic activities of the mind].. Each of which is in a constant state of flux, never fixed, always changing from moment to moment...{If one 'thinks' about it, what is 'thinking'?...In a simplistic sense, it's just movement/action confined to the brain] ...Our physical form is made up of cells that are constantly regenerating= birth-death-birth-death and so forth...

Attachment to these Aggregates creates a false sense of 'self' which eventually becomes "self-generating" ...So the trick is to become aware of what's happening in the mind and through this awareness gradually begin to change how one perceives things ...

Awareness does not need a 'self' to operate, it can do its job without a subject.
Meditation will [if done right] help one understand and experience this phenomena at work...

The more we cling to a false sense of 'self' the more we reinforce the concept of a permanent "self" which will eventually lead to the slippery slop of  suffering...That's not to say one can't have  a sense of self but one needs to be aware that it is constantly changing and one needs to go with the flow of change ....

In Buddhism there a lot of talk about renunciation and most people panic when they come across this term, however it just means to give up what is making one suffer, which [along with clinging] is "IGNORANCE" but not the real negative kind of ignorance that is commonly associated when used in English, in Buddhism it just means "NOT KNOWING"...

If one doesn't know what they 'need' to know, then they are prone to make mistakes...

Practice makes perfect, but don't practice to become enlighten-Make enlightenment the expression of your practice...
Q there's much one needs to learn in order to navigate ones way through the Buddha's Dharma, and I'm not a teacher of the Dharma-I'm just a very enthusiastic lay-student who has greatly benefited from the experience...

The Buddha did say "Don't take my word for it-Experience it for your'self'

I hope at least part of what I've written makes some sense....

Metta Zenda :)

Thank you for taking the time to write. I will think about what you've written today and look up Sandra's posts.  :) ...and swimming! Nice!

Quote from: Q on February 24, 2013, 02:57:16 AM
Thank you for taking the time to write. I will think about what you've written today and look up Sandra's posts.  :) ...and swimming! Nice!

Kia Ora Q,

::) In a nutshell it boils down to this " By changing the way you look at things- The things you look at change !"

Metta Zenda :)

Quote
Total enlightenment is unachievable for us because our Spirits just aren't that advanced yet. If we were, we wouldn't be in an earthly existance, we would have long since moved on. To whatever what, I don't know but willing to bet that it is to advance Spiritually under different circumstances.

I just wished to add that total enlightenment is, indeed, achievable by anyone, it just requires absolute diligence to reach the end of the process :) However, I agree that few are willing to give up their kingdoms to become enlightened. Why? Because, in fact, we're not truly convinced that enlightenment is really a priority in our lives. Those that truly realized that couldn't care less about their kingdoms — even if it's just your apartment, a TV set, and a wardrobe full of nice clothes to wear — and just focused all their time and effort to become enlightened.

Oh yes, it's tough work. You mentioned you lived in Korea, so very likely the teachings you heard were Ch'an (the same kind of Mahayana teachings also popularized in Japan under the name of Zen). To show how hard it is, they teach that the time of achieving enlightenment is at least 3 eons (maybe 7 or 33, depending on your chosen path). An "eon" is loosely defined as "the time from the beginning of an universe to its end", which according to modern science would be something like 10 to the power of 100 years (http://www.universetoday.com/11430/the-end-of-everything/) (Buddhism tends to be a bit more helpful and consider them to be "only" a few trillion years long (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalpa_(aeon)#Buddhism)). The whole point is to explain that it really takes a long time. On the other hand, we don't know at which stage we are — we might be at the "last" life when enlightenment is achieved. That it can be, indeed, achieved in a single lifetime is more than documentally proved — great teachers get regularly enlightened, and it's such a common event among Tibetans that they often feel frustrated when a teacher does not become enlightened!

How do they know? Well, think about Christ. We have the Turin Shroud to show what happens to people achieving a certain level of enlightenment: at the moment of death, the atoms of their bodies lose coherence, emit gamma and X-rays, and all that remains is a "nuclear shadow", not unlike what was seen to happen in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These effects are still visible on the Shroud after almost 2000 years. Certain Buddhist teachers pretty much achieve similar effects when dying, and this can be captured on video cameras and pictures. With luck, being at the right place at the right time, you can even see it for yourself; I didn't, but I have two teachers who certainly saw that with their own eyes. They were not overwhelmingly surprised — after all, it's what they have expected that would happen all along.

So we know it's possible. The bad news is that we also know it's extremely hard work. The good news is that a) it only depends on your level of commitment (so, no, you don't need to be "special" in any way...); b) even if you never reach that stage, at least you will enjoy a peaceful life and a peaceful death — and what more can anyone hope for in this life?

I really can't say what sect of Buddhism it was Sandra, but it probably was. I'm sort of a religious rebel in being that I am not interested too much in getting bogged down by secular thinking and so on. I just used Buddhism as a means of getting an overall picture of the beliefs and to learn the art of meditation. It's also the same with Christianity. If I had to identify with a Christian group, it would probably be the Gnostics, try finding a Gnostic church today. ;) Not just religions but science too. Science can be just as unbending when it comes to expanding our understanding of our world. A lot of theories and hypotheses are taken as facts and when something comes along to blow those theories out of the water, it's hard to give up the mental convictions. Investigating the paranormal and parapsychology is one field that is not very acceptable to the scientific crowd but I have disembodied voices on recorders and seemingly intellegent manipulations of energies on visual recorders. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge skeptic and can debunk about 98% of what I supposedly capture but the other 2% percent defies all logical perceptions. By the way, I was doing paranormal invetigating before all the TV shows about it were made. I remember using casette tapes and suitcase sized VCR cameras.

I caught my mistake in in my quote. Enlightenment is achievable but once enlightened enough, I believe you go onto whatever else there is after this existance to still advance the Spirit. What I call total enlightenment is when we become one with the Source again but individual at the same time ( at the end of the eons? ). A paradox, I know. I believe there are more enlightened beings that inhabit this existance from time to time but more to teach us and prod us along Spiritually. Anyway, what's a few trillion years compared to infinity?

My life isn't as peaceful as I would hope for, due to a modern world concreted in materiality, but I have no fear of death. I am a little apprehensive about the dying part though. ;D