Susan's Place Transgender Resources

i posted this on one other message board, so i'm sorry if you're seeing it again.

i am definitely very new to this whole transgender/transsexual/whathaveyou thing and i never ever thought i'd ever meet a ts person let alone be posting on a message board about it.

but. here i am. and i need your help... this is long and i apologize, but i'm totally new to this.

i am a heterosexual girl who is dating a transgender boy. ever since we first started hanging out about a year ago, things just clicked. we have been existing as best friends for about 8 months now, hanging out every weekend, going on trips together, and talking almost every day for hours. i felt like we could tell each other anything. i guess i always had a little crush on him and that was what made it possible for me to spend so much time with him, but it wasn't until recently that i really accepted that yes, i *like* like him.

a couple weeks ago when he came over to my house, we sat together on my couch and stayed up all night talking. i kind of let it slip that i'm romantically attracted to him, and he said he feels the same way.

then... i thought he was going to kiss me, but instead, he came out to me.

he said "i'm a boy, but i have a girl's body..." i was just like... "what?" and he had to repeat it a couple times. i thought he just meant like, he thinks he's too skinny or too short because he is a little shorter and skinnier than me. but no... up until 4 years ago, he had been living as a girl. he told me he has GID and takes regular injections, which is why he can grow his facial hair. he has also had top surgery.

it was a complete surprise. sure, he has a unisex name and is a little effeminate, but lots of japanese boys seem very feminine compared to american boys. if anything, i thought he was gay. i would always tease him about being gay or being a girl, but that was only because i never thought it could actually be true. i immediately felt horrible for how i had teased him before.

he told me that if i wanted to take back my confession of romantic feelings, he would understand. i just looked at him with tears in my eyes and told him that it was him that i cared about, *him*, not what was (or wasn't) in his pants. i was so impressed with his bravery to tell me such a big secret. all i wanted to do was hug him and comfort him and tell him that i accepted him just the way he is and he doesn't have to worry.



in japan, there is a word that gets thrown around quite a lot recently. it is "new-half" and it mostly refers to MtF. there are new-half clubs/hostess bars, and even a handful of new-half celebrities (haruna ai, ikuko, etc.) who appear regularly on TV. usually they on variety shows as comedians or singers or giving make-up/fashion tips, but i did catch a serious interview with haruna ai. she said that she always knew she was a girl, but she was just trapped in a boy's body. that interview was the extent of my exposure to ->-bleeped-<-.

after my boy came out to me, and went back to his house the next day, i seriously googled/wikipediad/youtubed the crap out of ->-bleeped-<- and "transmen" because i wanted to know exactly what he was dealing with and going through. that is how i came to this site.

i read pages and pages of what you all have written on here and it has helped me so much. i think i'm starting to get an idea of what my boy has been dealing with.

also, i'm a Christian, so i don't believe in having sex before marriage. so i don't have to worry about that.. er, area of his.. until if we got married... but i still want to touch him and sleep (yeah, sleep) with him but i have no idea what he expects/wants in a physical relationship. is there a "norm" for transmen in regards to expectations in physical relationships?

i met him as a boy, and he is a boy to me in my mind, but i still want to joke around with him as always about how he's a girl or something but now i feel like if i said something he wouldn't feel like he's passing... i guess i'll just have to watch what i say.

so i don't know. if there is anyone who is going through the same thing, or any transmen who have some insight on what my guy must be feeling now or how you would feel in a similar situation, please please please reply.

Greetings and Welcome to Susan's,

"is there a "norm" for transmen in regards to expectations in physical relationships"

When it comes to what he wants, your best bet is to just ask him. All people have different expectations and being a transman doesn't change that.

I think watching the teasing about being a girl would be kind but he may take it the way it is meant. Again the best way to know is ask.

These are only my thoughts , I'm sure others may feel differently. there are many people with many different opinions here as anywhere.

Firstly, you've done a really good thing by researching as much as you can find because while I'm sure he won't mind being open and honest with you and telling you as much as you want to know about him, nobody wants to be questioned about every aspect of their transition for however many days it would take to tell it all...
I'm only one transguy, but I would say that like born-males, there is no sexual norm for transguys. Yes, like born-males, we like sex, but 'how' is a completely personal thing. Some guys are happy with you touching them, others not. I know some guys who wouldn't even let you see those areas of their bodies. I think because of your Christian values, sex will be a discussion you need to have anyway. Just make sure that the two of you are happy and comfortable, the same as any other relationship.
Most importantly, you'll probably have to ask him and I know it's part of how you have joked around in the past, but after he has come out to you, I don't think there's any way you could get away with calling him a girl. Everyone has their individual levels of comfort, but I would not be able to deal with that.
Good luck anyway!
If you ever wanted to talk to another straight female partner, my girl's youtube is hannahduncan85 and she is also one of the TMates, who also might be of help - TMatesFTM.

Tay

i met him as a boy, and he is a boy to me in my mind

Stick with that and run with it.

personally, i dont mind the joking around like *runs from spider* "omg youre such a girl!" but for a lot of people it can strike a nerve because of the past, so like everyone else, just ask.

i think its really cool that you are researching all of this and accepting of him. :)

Wow. I hope someday I find a woman as understanding as you. :)

As for what he wants or expects, just think what would a bio-male want? The best thing is to ask him what he wants since everybody's different.

こんばんわ ^^
I hope.. :D

Anyways! in my opinion, just ask him about anything that bothers you!
Actually, just ask him anything! anything and everything you want to know.
Talking is the key for friendship, knowing each other, learning what each other feels, showing your curiosity will show him you care :)

Show him you care, he will be even more comfortable with you, not just that, but he'll see it doesn't bother you, he will see you are interested and he will see you are not scared and that you are completely open about it!

I doubt you might make him feel he is not passing, ftm pass really well ^^ at least most I seen..
But I think that even if you want it or not you will find yourself stopping the jokes or lowering them until you are more relaxed about it, just because that's how you feel :D

You posting here and searching already shows you are going to be a great friend (or more) to him, I might even enjoy you asking him and showing curiosity..

Good luck! :) and you seem to be a very cool person by your behavior :)

Quote from: tekla on September 08, 2009, 08:55:10 AM
i met him as a boy, and he is a boy to me in my mind

Stick with that and run with it.

^^^ Very good advice.

He's still the guy you've known all this time.

wow thanks for all of the quick reply, guys.

it seems the general consensus is to just... ask him. i will probably, but i didn't know if there were any patterns. for example, i read some things that a number of ftms don't like their chest to be touched pre-op.

he's really awesome about answering my questions though, and a number of times he will just bring up the ftm/transgender issues himself without me saying anything. i think he likes that he can talk about it with me, because in his 4 years of being full time, i am the first person (who didn't know him as a girl) that he came out to. 

Quote from: Osiris on September 08, 2009, 04:50:42 PM
^^^ Very good advice.

He's still the guy you've known all this time.

yeah, that won't be a problem. he is totally a guy to me. i can't even imagine him being a girl. even if i saw pictures of him as a kid, i don't think i could think of him as a girl or former-girl... he's just *him* and always will be

i dunno. it's just like if instead of telling me he is trans, he said he got in some freak ninja throwing star fight and happened to accidently get his junk cut off. like, i can't be mad at him for not having a penis. it's not his fault. he's still the same person with or without. only if we get married and start to think about kids does that really come into play, but that is a long, long way off.





but.. i dunno, i'm in a weird mood because i just watched boy's don't cry... that movie is terrifying. especially because after watching i wanted to look up just normal trans statistics, but when i googled "transgender statistics" the results were like "trasgender hate crime statistics" or "transgender death statistics"  :icon_dizzy:

If your not doing petty criminal acts and hanging out with convicted felons in rural Midwestern America, running on drugs and drinking, then I don't think the stuff in BDC has any validity for anyone's life.  It's as much about that setting as it is about Trans issues.

And refine your Google search, crime is a huge statistical area, and Google pulls up the most common references, so I'm sure if you put in 'statistical' crime/criminology will come up at or near the top.

We can't help having a male brain, our "I" is male, and getting stuck with a female body. If it was only as simple as a Ninja star fight, or I could blame it on a motorcycle accident, goodness knows I've had enough of 'em.

The thing is, if you like HIM, that's what matters. Don't worry about satisfaction in bed, you'll get that all right.

Also, it sounds like he is rather young, he'll get more "manly" with age, like any guy.

It sounds like you two are a great couple!

Quote from: emoglassesenvy on September 09, 2009, 03:43:19 AM
but i didn't know if there were any patterns. for example, i read some things that a number of ftms don't like their chest to be touched pre-op.

I wouldn't go on patterns, because everyone's an individual. Sure that might make some guys uncomfortable but some other guys may not mind or may even enjoy it.

Don't worry about what FTMs like or don't like, find out what HE likes. That's all there is to it.

Quote from: tekla on September 09, 2009, 01:42:25 PM
If your not doing petty criminal acts and hanging out with convicted felons in rural Midwestern America, running on drugs and drinking, then I don't think the stuff in BDC has any validity for anyone's life.  It's as much about that setting as it is about Trans issues.

yeah... i thought the same thing as i watched it... i'm not scared that those things are going to happen to my boyfriend, but the movie was just very graphic and a little too real in some parts which put me in a weird mood. 

we live in japan and i don't think there are any reported cases of hate crimes against transsexuals... they're still not "accepted" but there are transgender entertainers/comic book characters/etc. and japanese art (literature, paintings, film, etc) has a history of including gender-ambiguous characters, so i think even if people here don't really *like* it, they just kind if politely ignore real life transsexuals instead of lashing out.

Quote from: Alex_C on September 09, 2009, 03:38:46 PM
Also, it sounds like he is rather young, he'll get more "manly" with age, like any guy.

It sounds like you two are a great couple!

yeah, we are both 24. he's been on T since he was 20~  does one keep getting manlier and manlier, or is he done do you think?

and yeah, we're pretty cute, if i do say so myself. haha :D

Japanese anime's and manga helped me to come to terms with my sexuality and transgender identity. Mostly that of Riyoko Ikeda and Revolutionary Girl Utena :3

The biggest changes from the T are in the first few years, but he'll keep getting more manly since a 24 year old guy can still be kinda boyish.

Quote from: Myself on September 08, 2009, 12:28:58 PM
I doubt you might make him feel he is not passing, ftm pass really well ^^ at least most I seen..

Sorry, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I really disagree with this part. I think that FTMs are just as likely to be insecure about passing, and to be offended by being called a girl. Sure, some might not mind, but I think it's safer to *not* say stuff like that until you know his personal preference on the matter, than to think "he won't mind, FTMs pass really well"... Just my two cents.

Quote from: NES_junkie_James on September 11, 2009, 11:48:56 PM
Sorry, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I really disagree with this part. I think that FTMs are just as likely to be insecure about passing, and to be offended by being called a girl. Sure, some might not mind, but I think it's safer to *not* say stuff like that until you know his personal preference on the matter, than to think "he won't mind, FTMs pass really well"... Just my two cents.

yeah, that's what i was wondering about. i asked him the other day and he said that if i suddenly stopped teasing him, it might be weird. i'm still a little iffy about it though, because i don't know what kind of things really get to him. like he might not care if i say his clothes are girly but if i say something about the way he walks then maybe. i think i'll just err on the side of safety and keep the teasing to a minimum.

though, this also brings up the other problem of... saying that he's like a guy too much. like all guys, he does guy stuff like... from nice things like opening the door for me or gross stuff like burping. and i want to say "you're such a guy" ... because i mean it, but i don't want him to think that i'm just saying that to make him feel better.

if you guys feel weird about getting comments about being girly, how do you feel about getting comments about being manly? from someone who doesn't know your past, they might be fun.. but from someone who knows that you like being complimented on your manliness, is there something empty-sounding in that person's compliments?

Personally, I think it's all in the way it's said. Like your guy says, the two of you have always teased each other and that's a part of how you interact. So you have to judge things on how they feel in your context.

I don't think you should over-analyze what you do or don't say because then everything will become very unnatural and if that were me, it would make me feel like my transition was always on your mind. I know it's hard to do because you don't want to upset him or kick off a bout of dysphoria. However, he has always been a transguy through the entire time you've known him, you just weren't aware before now. You can't be on eggshells the whole time... one of the big problems with disclosing your trans history is it does change the way people treat you, even just because they try too hard not to treat you differently.

More on the point though, I quite like it if my girl says I've 'done something manly' IF she does it in a teasy way. Like if I do a big disgusting burp... she might ruffle my hair and say in a ridiculous voice that she's so proud of her big strong boy. Sounds weird but it makes us laugh and even though it's in a jokey way, I still get the positive reinforcement of her viewing me as a guy.

I think it shows a lot about how much you think of this guy and how much you care about him that you're so keen to get everything exactly right but the only way you're going to be able to do that is through 'feeling it out' between the two of you. It's a learning curve, every time you learn something vital about what makes someone who they are, it's almost as if you have to learn to be comfortable with them again. But you'll be closer than before, so that has to be worth it.

Quote from: emoglassesenvy on September 13, 2009, 08:26:19 AM
though, this also brings up the other problem of... saying that he's like a guy too much. like all guys, he does guy stuff like... from nice things like opening the door for me or gross stuff like burping. and i want to say "you're such a guy" ... because i mean it, but i don't want him to think that i'm just saying that to make him feel better.

Let him be the judge.
Make sure he knows you aren't trying to hurt him and if you do to say something, and then have fun. I joke one of the guys on here all the time in that manner. Honestly, I think he gets off when I say he is such a guy.

Well, I've never been one to be called girly alot. Some people like to compare things I do as manly and call me manly- which I've heard all my life. I have always gotten extremely angry when called something girly. Last I remember being referred to that was I threw a ball and missed and was told I "throw like a girl" (hey, we all miss sometimes). I wasn't happy but this guy did it because he knew that pisses me off.

Quote from: tekla on September 08, 2009, 08:55:10 AM
i met him as a boy, and he is a boy to me in my mind

Stick with that and run with it.

Completely agree. If I can make a large generalization this is all a trans male really wants

OH GOD emoglassesenvy, you're so REAL! Why I couldn't have a straight boyfriend with attitudes like you. I loved more than 10 guys in my life, I used to disguise as girl before compared to now where it is 'official' and every time I confessed my love ones that I am a boy, they ALL rejected me. I realize all their supposedly love for me was fake and they were just after me for sex. Now that I am transitioning, new comers in my heart can keep dreaming that I'll tell them what I am.

Oh cool! A japanese person! I'm into a lot of the things you guys produce there. :3 I just got done reading "Negima!". Cool country you have, I especially think your temples and bullet trains, they're way cool. >.< And your english is great, you speak it like a native, you even have slang down!

*coughcough* Now that my silly fangirl moment is over, how about some real advice?

Don't say thing like "You are such a girl." That probobly pisses him off, more then he lets on...

And you should love the guy you love, no matter how he is born! If you love him, run with it! (I'm a hopeless romantic too...)

I can't really say anything that hasn't been said already...

Quote from: NES_junkie_James on September 11, 2009, 11:48:56 PM
Sorry, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I really disagree with this part. I think that FTMs are just as likely to be insecure about passing, and to be offended by being called a girl. Sure, some might not mind, but I think it's safer to *not* say stuff like that until you know his personal preference on the matter, than to think "he won't mind, FTMs pass really well"... Just my two cents.

I agree.  Especially if surgery is not accessible to said FTM, passing with tits is considerably harder than passing with a dick.

Everyone sees your tits.  Lots of guys go through their whole life with only themselves and their doctor seeing their dick.

Ceiling Cat sees it too......

yeah, i hear you guys. this stuff should probably just come out all naturally between us... i do know that there is such a thing as researching too much... however, finding out that the boy i talked to every day and hung out with all of the time for 8 months not only had a huge life-affecting secret, but that that secret was him being transgender... it was a huge shock and i find myself having all of these thoughts and emotions and questions filling up my brain and there isn't really anyone i can talk to about it... so i really appreciate you guys helping me out.

Quote from: Heartwood on September 15, 2009, 12:03:20 AM
Oh cool! A japanese person! I'm into a lot of the things you guys produce there. :3 I just got done reading "Negima!". Cool country you have, I especially think your temples and bullet trains, they're way cool. >.< And your english is great, you speak it like a native, you even have slang down!

hehe i'm actually a blonde american girl... :D i just happen to live in japan and date a japanese boy. but yeah, i think temples and bullet trains are cool too~ that's why i moved here a few years ago ;D

QuoteAnd you should love the guy you love, no matter how he is born! If you love him, run with it! (I'm a hopeless romantic too...)

solid advice if i ever heard it~ <3

Quote from: Mister on September 15, 2009, 12:31:09 AM
I agree.  Especially if surgery is not accessible to said FTM, passing with tits is considerably harder than passing with a dick.

yeah, my boyfriend has had top surgery and luckily his body shape is not very womanly at all~ body-wise he's ok, but his face is a bit feminine.
before his surgery i know he wore one of those shirts that flatten out that area and apparently it even passed the test of someone touching his chest to check if he really was a boy. 

so is the not passing with boobs because of not having a binder or having one that doesn't do its job right?

Either no binder, a crappy binder or being too large chested to have a binder get your chest flat enough to pass. 

Amazing to see a blonde probably very Nordic girl turn into a genuine Japanese right here on the Internet.


Oh I wait for the day this infernal thing dies and we can go back to gay bars, tons and tons of gay bars. And straight, etc etc etc etc bars too. Face-to-face!! SCARY!!

Hello, I'm a heterowoman and I think the way you responded and is handling his confession to you is a beautiful thing.  As a woman, what attracts you to any man is how he makes you feel as a person and his ability to confide and open himself to you is such a plus in order to have a healthy and loving relationship.  You have already established honesty in your relationship so now that you know, you can easily fall into the trap of overthinking things, especially as a Christian female that has had a life time of what is right or wrong preached to you in every fiber of your being. 

I agree with others speaking to him directly is the only way to go.  You can no more ask another transgender male about how to treat another than you can ask any man on how to make another man fall in love with you.   It will only be from that man you're asking point of view.

I can understand you wanting to know everything about everything in regards to FTM, but with each posting that I am reading from you,  I feel you are doing what most women do when we are falling in love with a man.  You are overthinking things.  You are a woman in love with a man, that happens to be different below the waist.  No different than a birth defect.  Like most birth defects you don't research it to death or think it to death.  You know it, you see it, and you accept it or not.

This is just my opinion, but you are fortunate to have the real thing right there with his most vulnerable heart opened to you to take or break.  Only this man holds all the answers you seek.  All this other information you are picking up by the wayside, in movies and such will only confuse the heart.  Also remember no matter when you chose to have sex, he will still be who he is.  And if you wait until marraige to actually address the fact as to if you can be just as happy and satisfied with your Christian beleifs that this man is different then what you've read in the bible.  then you will end up hurting the person you have come to love the most.  At his point in the relationship he is giving you the out you need so that you can maintain the loving friendship you have.

The only research you need to do now is inside you.  You're saying he is a guy, and I only see him as a guy, but you don't not like before, because now you are self consious of what you say.  If he could laugh at your teasing before he will still laugh now.  He's still the same guy.

The  more you research the more you will see he's a girl that became a guy and I think lose site of what is sitting right there before you.

Ree

Quote from: shreeree on September 26, 2009, 04:50:44 PM
I agree with others speaking to him directly is the only way to go.  You can no more ask another transgender male about how to treat another than you can ask any man on how to make another man fall in love with you.   It will only be from that man you're asking point of view.

I can understand you wanting to know everything about everything in regards to FTM, but with each posting that I am reading from you,  I feel you are doing what most women do when we are falling in love with a man.  You are overthinking things.

Quote
The only research you need to do now is inside you.  You're saying he is a guy, and I only see him as a guy, but you don't not like before, because now you are self consious of what you say.  If he could laugh at your teasing before he will still laugh now.  He's still the same guy.

The  more you research the more you will see he's a girl that became a guy and I think lose site of what is sitting right there before you.

Yeah, I think you're very right... I have to admit that there *is* such a thing as too much research. When I first found out that he is ftm, I scoured the internet and was thrilled to find helpful information and forums like these. However, reading people's posts about getting periods or talking about other girl things made me think strange things..

for example, I have never thought of him as a girl, but reading forums and trying to accept that he was really brought up as a girl made me "try out" thinking "well what if he was a girl" or staring at pictures and trying to see the "girl"  in the picture...  I think also researching bottom surgery (just the tip of the iceberg, but it was enough) made me have that kind of "ok I really to stop researching about this because it is not doing anyone any good right now."

I think that stage was important for me to really understand that yes, he was born with a female body  instead of being in denial about it. I went from being totally fine and naive about his ->-bleeped-<-, to being worried and doubtful for about a week (with things worries like if it's just a phase, if it makes me a lesbian, etc), but we had some wonderful talks and like you guys have been saying... finding out he's transgender doesn't change him, he is still the guy that I fell for and I acknowledge that he has girl parts but I have no doubt in my mind that he is male.

QuoteAlso remember no matter when you chose to have sex, he will still be who he is.  And if you wait until marraige to actually address the fact as to if you can be just as happy and satisfied with your Christian beleifs that this man is different then what you've read in the bible.  then you will end up hurting the person you have come to love the most.  At his point in the relationship he is giving you the out you need so that you can maintain the loving friendship you have.

about Christianity and ->-bleeped-<-... I see no conflict at all. even if someone could try to make a case against homosexuality, homosexuality is not ->-bleeped-<-.  transsexuality is, as you said, a physical birth defect... just like someone born blind or deaf. it is for all intents and purposes "not natural", it's just an unfortunate thing that happens. it's no use to blame God because it's not "wrong" ... it's just something that went wrong physically.

So yeah, a relationship with him being ftm is a non-issue for me. a bigger issue for me is a relationship with him being a non-Christian... as we have different ideas of what level of physical contact is appropriate. but that's a whole nother set of issues that we'll figure out as we go along <3

thanks for taking the time to reply, i appreciate your input!

"about Christianity and ->-bleeped-<-... I see no conflict at all. even if someone could try to make a case against homosexuality, homosexuality is not ->-bleeped-<-.  transsexuality is, as you said, a physical birth defect... just like someone born blind or deaf. it is for all intents and purposes "not natural", it's just an unfortunate thing that happens. it's no use to blame God because it's not "wrong" ... it's just something that went wrong physically."

You are welcome and your thinking process is great, just keep thinking from the way of "he makes me happy" and build from it.  I think each of us are born with an inherited spirituality.  You don't have to go to church or be babtized to know what feels right or wrong.  I think instincts are the inherited feelings I speak of.  If it was as wrong as religious leaders want you to beleive, than how could God allow you possibly to fall in love with this person you are with?  Wouldn't your instincts tell you it was wrong.  Trust me my ex-husband was all wrong and my instincts told me over and over again even had a tornado on our wedding day (LOL) Talking about God trying to tell me  something.  I married him anyway.  It was a mistake, but I kept telling myself I rather have him than be alone.   Being with him made me lonelier than I ever been in my entire life.  However, it taught me that being alone and happy is not the worse thing that could happen to me.  Be with someone and being unhappy is.

If this man makes you feel happy continue to embrace it with open arms and remember take no more BS from him than you would any other guy.  Also, since you don't have the sexual experience yet with penetration since you are waiting.  I was a virgin until I was 32 and after I lost my virginity I still found that all my orgasms were acheived through clitorial stimulation and the penetration was all for his sake than mine.   It's different for alot of women, only your body knows what it likes or wants, but I personanlly have felt as if the cock was overrated in regards to female satisfaction.  We are fortunate to have so many sensitive zones on the outside I can have several orgasms before penetration even happens.  I'm glad I'm more a clitoris orgasmic person because if you have an impotent partner it wouldn't make or break the relationship like it would with a woman that is "dick happy" excuse the crassness.

Ree