Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Where does everyone come down on this hot social issue of our day? Do you support the rights of gays and lesbians to marry and have full equal rights under the law? Currently, even if gays do get "married" in a state, the federal gov't and the IRS does not recognize the marriage. (This is because of DOMA, the defense of marriage act) Also, when married gays and lesbians move out of state or travel, they become strangers and "unmarried". Is this fair?

I don't think anyone should get married.  I do however support the right of any two people to form a legal contract and have all the benefits and responsibilities of a 'domestic partnership' including insurance, power of attorney and property rights - including the marriage right of getting your spouses/partners property upon their death pretty much tax free.

Domestic partnerships and anything else that is not a "marriage" does not give couples the same rights. Everyone deserves equal right with the government/IRS/ and such. Gay and Lesbian couples deserve a "marriage" that affords them the same rights as "straight" couples and is accepted in all 50 states.
Myles
Who has spent the last 15+ years in a gay relationship/ before transitioning

Hey, I don't even think that the relationship has be predicated on someone sticking their hoo-haw into someone elses ying-yang.  Any two people.  That's all the contract should ask for, and any two people signing it should get all the rights - a two-tier system is wrong and un-American.  But so is putting the church into the State's business.

Well, if you're hell bent on getting married, spend a day in divorce court.  When you watch the "couples" go at it, remember they once believed they were marrying the love of their life. 

As far as voting, I chose #1 since it affords any couple who want to enter into a legal union the same rights, privileges, etc as now enjoyed by those who are legally married in the eyes of the federal government.

If I had my druthers I'd define marriage something that happens in a church but has no legal bearing on the union between people.  If you want a legal union, go down to the courthouse and make it happen.  Any two or more people qualify if they spent a day in divorce court first.

Julie

The divorce court idea is hysterical. I wonder how many people would go through with thier marriage after a day of that.

I wonder how many people would go through with thier marriage after a day of that.

All of them.  Everyone thinks they are special and it ain't gonna happen to them.

I fully support Gay marriage.  Civil union is only second best, therefore making people second class citizens.

I have been through divorse court three times and I would still get married.  Divorce is just part of marriage.  Tekla must support the newest Californian initiative, 'Banning Divorce'.  ;D ;)   Typical Xtian Reich forcing their views on the world.

Divorce isn't perfect, but nether is marriage.  Marriage is a contract, Divorce is the dissolution of that contract.


Janet

Umm, its a joke, but a pretty funny one.  Till death do you part, and you're not dead yet.

Then only way we can have fully equal rights is to have one law in regards to all unions.
While marriages are allowed for hetero couples, gay couples should have the same right. That is not to say that we should force all churches to comply, just that the same union should be available to all.

I'm fine with civil unions but ONLY if we have civil unions and marriage is banned in the eyes of the government. marriage is a quant ceremony that is past it's time. I also think that any 2 OR MORE consenting adults should be able to enter into domestic partnerships. they can sign business contracts and they can be roomates, so why not? just becuase they dont have a sexual relationship doesn't mean that they don't rely on each other the same way a married or unioned couple would. if south park taught us anything it's that BFFs have a right to sustain life support! but seriously, why can't hippies enter a commune together and get the same tax credits and benifits as a straight couple or even a same sex couple?

Quote from: Janet Lynn on September 13, 2009, 11:13:47 AM
I have been through divorse court three times and I would still get married. 

That's called Serial Monogamy. Seriously, it's on the books  ;) I think I was in like psych201 or something when I heard the term and laughed so hard I made a scene.

Year after year for a very long time I would snuggle into my boyfriend every night and bond with him, be it talking about his day, fooling around or just listening to music until we fell asleep. My grandparents didn't even share a room for most of their marriage and my mom and dad divorced when I was 7. There's your family values.

Get rid of marriage in the eyes of the government.
The religious right claim it is a religious institution, let them have it.

Get rid of that and make all partnerships domestic with the exact same values for all involved.


If the big complaint is about wording, change the wording and be done with it. All this bickering is costing LOTS and LOTS of money over something completely asinine.

Actually, divorce is very good for the economy.

I fully support Gay marriage as straight people have it but if I had my way I'd ban marriage and everyone would have to have Civil unions.

We have civil unions in my country. They have the same legel rights as a marriage, but they called it something different to passify the detractors.

Personally I think the state marriage should just be a legel contract - religions and other orgs should have their own 'ceremonies' but the legel side should remain the same regardless of sex/gender etc..call it a marriage if you like, but that should be irrelevant to the underlying contract.

I think Gays and Lesbians should be afforded every opportunity to be as miserable as heterosexuals. :)

Here in Ontario, where Gay marriage is recognized, the Gay couple who made headlines by being the first to Marry in Ontario, recently made headlines by being the first Gay couple to divorce.  :)

-={LR}=-

Do I support gay marriage?Of course! But Please! please! Consider the children if you have them. A gay housewife isn't such a bad thing as long as children are honoured.

JJ

Quote from: tekla on September 13, 2009, 10:48:37 AM
I don't think anyone should get married.  I do however support the right of any two people to form a legal contract and have all the benefits and responsibilities of a 'domestic partnership' including insurance, power of attorney and property rights - including the marriage right of getting your spouses/partners property upon their death pretty much tax free.

this is exactly the arrangement I have been suggesting on my regular board for several years now.

Something like this could be broad enough to include spinster sisters or business partners or the dude living in his mom's basement partnering with his mom.

In this way there's no legal favoritism towards married couples in any sense.

The only thing I'd quibble with in your post is this - I'd alter the first sentence to read:

"I don't think anyone should get legally married."

I fully support anyone's right to a private ceremony of their choice.

All I care about is the law.  That's all this is (and pretty much ever was) it's about property, not states of grace.

Is this law or state of grace?  8)

I think it's unconstitutional interference, they ought to have their 501c status revoked, and pay taxes, and not involve themselves in the politics of a state in which they do not live.

If I was a betting women, I would bet that the woman in the picture with the wedding dress is actually trans. She infiltrated the enemy camp just to make the preppie, probably conservative groom admit that he's really fallen in love with a total woman regardless of birth gender. Then all Maine stand for marriage crowd at the church will need to rethink their silly beliefs about who can marry who.

(I'm just kidding), but who do these people think they are? Fine, we admit that we don't want to be married INTO your church, we just want to be married with the same contractual rights as you. We'll find our own compassionate, intelligent minister to marry us, thank you very much.

Isn't it funny that we can get a drivers license and a fishing license, but no marriage license?

What really cracks me up is there is a test to drive but not to get married.

Aw, you're being a little harsh.  Look at all the great messages they are sending out to their flock. 


Instead of homos teaching our kids those awful things homos teach, they tell the kids the right things and encourage them to spread the word.

Odd, I notice that 'science' didn't make the list either.

Really, what exactly does a school teach about marriage?

What I'm tired of is the heteroSEXUAL agenda. What are we teaching our children? I can't turn on the TV for more than 5 minutes without seeing some commercial for ED pills. Who's fixated on sex?

I don't think I've ever seen one of these with two guys in a tub! Oh, that's right, it's one man and one woman so it's just fine! Argh!

Quote from: tekla on September 13, 2009, 09:03:54 PM
Really, what exactly does a school teach about marriage?

Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be working.  50% divorce rate...?  I think even weather forecasters have to have a better success rate than that.

God sure does have a lot of hate going on, and he blew up the space shuttle, wow now those are supernatural powers.

I have always had an issue with any laws, or political movements, designed to limit the rights of any particular group from enjoying the same rights as those who are more favorable in the eyes of the people who are buying the laws. In other words I have no problem with gays and lesbians being able to marry and enjoy the same rights and privileges that 'normal' heterosexual people have.

Schools must have changed a LOT since I was there, because I was never had a marriage class. That and it was always my understanding that there was supposed to be a separation between the church and the state. Marriage is a religious institution (and to my understanding there are differences in the idea of marriage between different religions) and should remain as such. Let the churches decide who can, or can't get married in their church, let the congregations decide if they want to agree with the laws of their church. Let the individuals involved decide who they want to share in a legal binding contract (civil union - or whatever you want to call it). If I want to designate a man or a woman or a family member or my cat or whatever the rights to my estate, money, medical decisions, debts, etc then let me make that decision.

Deanna

Quote from: juliekins on September 13, 2009, 08:44:56 PM
If I was a betting women, I would bet that the woman in the picture with the wedding dress is actually trans.

Nah......the ->-bleeped-<- is on the right of the groom, looking like the 'sister' of the masculine bride....


(just a response to someone else's kidding.......no rocks pleeze)




Bev

I beleive in minimal laws.

Law number one.: You an do anything you want until it interferes with someone elses right to do the same.

Gay and Lesbian couples should have every right to get married.

And be just as miserable as straight married people are.  :laugh:

I find the naysayers confusing.
Both I and my partner are pansexual.
Currently, we're married and have every intention of spending the rest of our lives together. I love him, respect him, know him and accept him, and he loves me, respects me, knows me and accepts me.
However, to those who say "no" to same sex marriages, all this love and all this respect, doesn't mean a thing.
The day I change my marker on my identification, suddenly, our marriage should be annulled, automatically, completely, and mercilessly.

It pisses me off a little bit, to have my marriage be a matter of the contents of my underpants and a little m or an f on a piece of plastic, instead of letting it be about two people who love each other deeply and want to spend the rest of their lives together.

Where's the logic in that?

I honestly don't think that marriage should be a legal institution at all.
It's a religious ceremony.  If certain bigoted religious people want a ceremony that reflects their bias, I say let them have it.  (Not all religions discriminate so, but many do)
I think any binding agreement between two people as a civil matter should be separate from such religious matters.  In short, Civil Unions for all couples, regardless of hetero- or homo- sexual status.
.
While that would certainly solve the problem, unfortunately, it's not that simple.  Marriage, as an institution of both combined religious and civil importance is fairly ingrained in our society.  Because of that, it makes separating the two a difficult proposition.
.
I suppose that's why I support gay marriage.  Since the civil-religious status of marriage isn't going to change in any significant fashion...the only fair thing to do is to allow everyone equal access to it.  Civil Unions in the current context can...and often are...defined differently from marriage...making it a 2nd class status that is not equal to marriage.  Much like the "separate but equal" racial segregation of the 1960s...it just doesn't work when many in society aren't interested in fairness or equality for all. 

I think any combination of consenting adults should be given the right to marry.

I'm a woman. My wife and I have been married for 30 years now. We don't need no stinkin' piece of paper saying we're married. But we sure would like the legal protections!

-- Luke

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I'm against marriage completely.  B/c there are so many "adults" who get married young and divorce within either weeks or years.   :o

Quote#  Yes, I fully support gay marriage. No other substitute gives people equal rights.

Yes everyone should have the right!

Jay

the way i see it is that we are more alike than we are different...we are all connected in some kind of way...it's sad that our government is so overbearing on who we can "legally love and wed"....

for myself personally....i spent a lot of time in the "lesbian" world until i could get the courage to come out as trans....however i identify as a straight man...but i still have a lot of lesbian/gay friends...bottom line i think everyone gay straight trans black white girl boy young old sick well etc should have the right to marry

Yes, I fully support gay marriage.

Why o why does religion still influence political decisions?  :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tM0Pg_KKV8# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tM0Pg_KKV8#)

That was great Julie. Now to pass it on.

Quote from: clhere on November 11, 2009, 02:58:32 PM
Why o why does religion still influence political decisions?  :P

=| Because people aren't ready to stop clinging to archaic beliefs?

Quote from: clhere on November 11, 2009, 02:58:32 PM
Yes, I fully support gay marriage.

Why o why does religion still influence political decisions?  :P

Because religion is kind of like politics.

I fully support it.I do however feel that If the hetero religeous faction are so worried about us tainting their 'marriage' then it should ALL be civil unions and  :P

I'm legally married since my gender hasn't been changed, but once it does I'm no longer married as my state doesn't condone it. Then you bring into the fact we're poly folk and I doubt the laws on polygamy will change ever....But if something happens to our guy we won't have any rights in regards to him :(

Quote from: tekla on September 13, 2009, 10:48:37 AM
I don't think anyone should get married.  I do however support the right of any two people to form a legal contract and have all the benefits and responsibilities of a 'domestic partnership' including insurance, power of attorney and property rights - including the marriage right of getting your spouses/partners property upon their death pretty much tax free.

For once, I agree with Tekla. And not only do I believe that gay people should have the right to marry simply because there's no reason they should be separated from straight folk on this or any other issue, but I have a personal agenda in the matter as well. Should I choose to marry again in the future (which is a very small chance, but nonetheless), I would have to be married as female, because I was born in Ohio, and that wonderful state will not allow one to change gender on a birth certificate. If I fall for a gg, I'm stuck with having a domestic partnership in most states, things being the way they are at the moment, and I don't think that's really right. Anyway... that's my stance.

SD

Supporting it 110% :laugh:

Hmmmm, how can I put this without sounding rude or mean. Gay people can marry if they want to, I don't care but I'm more concerned with being able to marry a girl and be declared husband and wife. I'm more concerned with a law passing that says Transgender people are allowed to marry their partner. A gay FTM should be able to marry a guy (Just overlook the the same sex for a minute) they should be able to marry because biologically they are different sex's (No offense to anyone, I'm saying biologically). Lesbian MTF's should be able to do the same. Straight FTM's and MTF's should be able to marry the same biological sex because it's really an opposite sex wedding. I'm confusing a lot of people I bet, sorry if I offended anyone, if I did, feel free to tell me about it. Sorry.

A problem exists with our system today. Marriage was intertwined with heavy religious faith, and fear. It's an old, outdated, and arcane method of union. Domestic partnerships would be a much more modern way of looking at it.

Love shouldn't be defined as man loves woman, but rather A loves B.

Quote from: Aidan_ on October 13, 2010, 07:52:13 PM
Love shouldn't be defined as man loves woman, but rather A loves B.

Or C thru Z? ;)

I support gay marriage with all the rights and obligations that go with it.

Why is it though when this topic is brought up on other forums or IRL, people opposing it say things like, "If gay marriage is approved, how bout just make it that people can marry their dog/horse?"  ::)

Why does any talk about gay relationships always venture into beastuality?!  ???

Quote from: Hermione01 on October 13, 2010, 10:36:13 PM
I support gay marriage with all the rights and obligations that go with it.

Why is it though when this topic is brought up on other forums or IRL, people opposing it say things like, "If gay marriage is approved, how bout just make it that people can marry their dog/horse?"  ::)

Why does any talk about gay relationships always venture into beastuality?!  ???

.... maybe they're projecting?

(couldn't help myself... )

Quote from: Hermione01 on October 13, 2010, 10:36:13 PM
Why is it though when this topic is brought up on other forums or IRL, people opposing it say things like, "If gay marriage is approved, how bout just make it that people can marry their dog/horse?"  ::)

Why does any talk about gay relationships always venture into beastuality?!  ???

It's called fear mongering. Go to the extremes, the bizarre, the outrageous then apply that to whatever you are against and make it sound legit.  There are enough people out there who don't think, they just react.  You put their reaction in the spotlight and make it sound like they speak for all.

It's a tried and true method and works very well for the mindless drones who are more concerned about the price of beer or which NASCAR driver is the best than about real issues like civil rights.  And there's a lot of them out there.

how bout just make it that people can marry their dog/horse?"

Sure, just as soon as the dog or the horse can sign a contract.

I fully support gay marriage, and I honestly have no clue how the American government can still deny it when there is that little thing called the separation of church and state. I guess they just like to pretend it isn't there.

I think anyone that wants to get married is a bit bent... There is a reason marriage is referred to as an institution and you definitely need to be committed... IMO

I am however a big supporter of equal rights

Live and let live; to each their own... If gay folks want to get married... Go ahead... Knock yourselves out

Most just seem interested in the legal ramifications and tax and insurance benefits anyway

I myself don't need a big expensive dog and pony show to express my love and commitment to another person

But hey, that's my trip

Sorry for the babbling rant  :P

Thanks Virginia, for saying my piece. I don't think much of marriage to anyone either, but if you want it, go for it. It doesn't affect my life whatsoever.

I would have loved to have a gay marriage, but it ended up all bitter and twisted.  >:-)

I personally would prefer a civil ceremony followed by whatever religious ceremony if you want one.

Well, not to worry.  Gay scientists have been working hard on isolating the Christian gene.

Should Republicans be allowed to marry?  Let's vote on it!

All I have to say is what they are saying in this video. But I also do find it hard to believe there are some no votes in our community.

WARNING - MANY F-BOMBS NSFW
http://fckh8.com/FCKH8.com/FCKH8.html (http://fckh8.com/FCKH8.com/FCKH8.html)

Betty Bowers (the world's BEST CHRISTIAN) explains what a bible based marriage is.


Betty Bowers Explains Traditional Marriage to Everyone Else (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw#ws)

Quote from: tekla on November 08, 2010, 12:09:47 PM
Should Republicans be allowed to marry?  Let's vote on it!

Being a Republican is a lifestyle choice.  No one is born Republican.  We cannot cater to lifestyle choices and give special rights to people who could, if they wanted, be normal.  So no, we should not make special laws to give special rights to Republicans.

I believe in equal rights, bar nothing. If you want to choose between 'marriage' and civil marriage, that's your choice. Personally, I'd like to get married by the state, rather than by a religious institution. It just would make me feel more secure.

As a liberal Christian, engaged straight ally, I strongly support same sex marriage and it should be the law of the land. Every person should be able to marry the person they love.

This is always a hard question for me to answer. As long as marriage for heterosexual couples exists, then I believe marriage for homosexual couples should also exist. However, above all else, I support the abolition of the institution of marriage. The government shouldn't have any part in regulating the romantic/sexual relationships between two consenting adults.

QuoteBetty Bowers (the world's BEST CHRISTIAN) explains what a bible based marriage is.

Man that was classic! Thanks for posting the link

Quote from: Pundit on November 20, 2010, 09:12:43 PMThe government shouldn't have any part in regulating the romantic/sexual relationships between two consenting adults.

Nor should any other organization, including churches.  But the legal part has nothing to do with love, romance or sex, it has to do with rights and privileges.  There is something like 1100 benefits married couple enjoy that non-married people don't.

But no matter how you slice it, the idea that certain people should enjoy benefits based on popular beliefs, while others are denied those same benefits, is wrong.

Yes, I support gay marriage but civil unions should be an acceptable alternative. For me, its about not have the same benefits as a traditional couple. That is the problem. Love between any two people should be celebrated and appreciated by everyone and every institution.