Susan's Place Transgender Resources

For primarily family reasons, I have no plans to transition from male to female right now. However, I've heard of great psychological/mental health benefits from HRT, and that some doctors will prescribe hormones specifically for those benefits even if a patient is not transitioning. Does anyone have any additional info one this? Opinions?

I'm 5'7", about 240-250 pounds and bearded. I think I could probably still pass for male after HRT if I chose to, but I could be wrong. I would also bank my sperm in case my wife and i decided to have more children at some point.

One other issue: The idea of my male parts not working doesn't bother me, but it may bother my wife, so I'd have to sort that out... frankly I just feel poisoned by testosterone... my mind is absolutely frantic and I want that calmness and peace a lot of folks say HRT helps bring.

I'll stop there. Any of this make sense, or am I a raving loon?

http://wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdf (http://wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdf)

QuoteCan Hormones Be Given To Those Who Do Not Want Surgery or a Real-life Experience?
Yes, but after diagnosis and psychotherapy with a qualified mental health professional following
minimal standards listed above. Hormone therapy can provide significant comfort to gender
patients who do not wish to cross live or undergo surgery, or who are unable to do so. In some
patients, hormone therapy alone may provide sufficient symptomatic relief to obviate the need
for cross living or surgery.

Hope this helps.

Anna

The grass is always greener on the other side.  Most of us trade one set of difficult circumstances for another one.  Rarely is there a magic bullet.  I know I haven't seen it.

You have a beard.  You are married.  You may want to have kids.  Being impotent is okay with you but maybe not with your wife. 

You have a lot of more important things to work out before you start taking the 'magic elixir'.

Peace of mind does not come in a bottle or in a pill.  If you aren't in therapy, get there before you make any life altering decisions.  HRT WILL change the way you think.  A good therapist will help you figure out your situation before recommending HRT.

Julie

Also The quote is from page p.14

Go Blue!

Anna

Thanks for the info/feedback!

I was in therapy with Susan O'Dell in Chicago for a couple of months last year, and on the verge of starting HRT when my wife decided she couldn't stay with me if I transitioned. So here we are: I'm trying to tolerate being male because I can't stand the idea of being apart from my wife/being a part-time parent.

I start seeing a new local therapist in about 3 weeks...

If HRT could give me mental relief while I still present as a guy, it might make things better for all concerned.

How weird, I was just thinking about you the other night, sounds like you've been busy  :icon_ballbounce2: It's nice to see you here again!

The mental relief is indescribable.
Your boy parts will probably still work on hrt if you want them to bad enough, but you will pretty much stop ejaculating. How do you think your wife would process that?

Becca,
honestly, if it could get up enough for the very occasional sex we have, and I look like a guy still, and I have some sperm frozen.. I think even now she'd be okay with that.

But I don't even see my new therapist for 3 weeks.. stay tuned.

I've been busy, but ineffective :)

What's she going to think about breasts? Maybe try to get her in touch with her inner lesbian?

She's bi, actually... she likes breasts, but might not like them on my largely male, overweight, bearded body.. ha ha :) I already have some breast tissue (always have, even before I fattened up)

Yeah, I can imagine hairy boobs would be icky. Your wife sounds pretty cool for a girl, did you guys talk about the I-cant-be-with-you-if-you-transition thing or did she come up with it on her own? I'm wondering if she has a vision of the fat hairy you in a dress instead of the soft, hairless creature you would theoretically become?

I have been on hrt for 5 years knowing that I wouldn't begin transition for that period.  My wife approves.  In that time I have also had my facial hair removed.  I have a pretty good job making the kind of money that I wouldn't if I transitioned.  HRT has kept me sane and fairly prosperous.  The sex thing is a little slow, and I bounce a lot when I run.  My job may be ending shortly and I now have the $ to finance my transition, while not putting my wife through any financial burden.  It works for us, maybe for you.

Quote from: mtfbuckeye on September 17, 2009, 05:11:06 PM
Becca,
honestly, if it could get up enough for the very occasional sex we have, and I look like a guy still, and I have some sperm frozen.. I think even now she'd be okay with that.

But I don't even see my new therapist for 3 weeks.. stay tuned.

I've been busy, but ineffective :)

that makes me remember a question I never got around to asking - for the room:

Can a person who's impotent because of HRT still get an erection with Viagra/Cialis/et al?

Quote from: Becca on September 17, 2009, 05:06:45 PM
How weird, I was just thinking about you the other night, sounds like you've been busy  :icon_ballbounce2: It's nice to see you here again!

The mental relief is indescribable.
Your boy parts will probably still work on hrt if you want them to bad enough, but you will pretty much stop ejaculating. How do you think your wife would process that?

This is entirely inappropriate.  What may have worked for you will not necessarily work for someone else, everyone reacts differently to HRT, it is not a magic elixir.

-={LR}=-

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Quote from: Laura Hope on September 17, 2009, 06:59:29 PM
that makes me remember a question I never got around to asking - for the room:

Can a person who's impotent because of HRT still get an erection with Viagra/Cialis/et al?

Seems a little like wanting your cake and eating it too.  Why on earth would a MtF want an erection?

-={LR}=-

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Post Merge: September 17, 2009, 07:40:19 PM

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Seems a little like wanting your cake and eating it too.  Why on earth would a MtF want an erection?

-={LR}=-
[/quote]

Some of us are indifferent to our genitals.  It can be about the feminine expression - the secondary sex characteristics, the acceptance from society of us as a female.  Genitals for me could be either one or the other - as long as they work in some fashion, I'm satisfied(no pun intended!).

As for the question about viagra, I don't have any first-hand experience, but I've watched "->-bleeped-<-girl15's"(I know - offensive name, but she has good info!) video blogs on Youtube, and she reported to have a positive experience with it.

Becca, when you say she'll stop ejaculating, does that mean dry orgasms, or no orgasms?  That's been a concern for me and one of my road-blocks for starting HRT.

Quote from: Becca on September 17, 2009, 07:54:35 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive.

It wasn't offensive, we shouldn't make recommendations on drugs based on our own experiences :)

-={LR}=-

Quote from: Ladyrider on September 17, 2009, 07:37:49 PM
This is entirely inappropriate.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive, thank you for pointing it out  :-\

If I was with someone who never ejaculated, I'd start to get a complex after a while. That's all I meant by it. I'm rather fond of mtfbuckeye and I didn't mean to sound critical, just explore the topic with her.

I'm not in the mood to talk about erections or orgasms anymore so just wait a bit and lots of other opinions will be along shortly, or we can talk later.

Quote from: calliope on September 17, 2009, 07:56:17 PM

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QuoteSeems a little like wanting your cake and eating it too.  Why on earth would a MtF want an erection?

-={LR}=-

Some of us are indifferent to our genitals.  It can be about the feminine expression - the secondary sex characteristics, the acceptance from society of us as a female.  ...

Society accepting a person with an erect penis as a female?  Hmm... That could be stretch, but what the heck, good luck with that.

-={LR}=-

Quote from: calliope on September 17, 2009, 07:56:17 PMBecca, when you say she'll stop ejaculating, does that mean dry orgasms, or no orgasms?  That's been a concern for me and one of my road-blocks for starting HRT.

okay, speaking only for myself here with the usual ymmv disclaimer, they are dry orgasms, and pretty much nothing like the male type orgasms experienced before HRT. They are female orgasms: wavelike, multiple, full bodied, toe-curling deals that aren't just wham it's all over but tend to linger, and even when you think its over might come back for another wave or two while you lay there trembling. Definitely an improvement over the old sticky ones, and again speaking strictly for myself, erections are neither required nor desired for this to occur. I suppose Viagra would still do it's magic if that's what you really wanted.

When I visited Dr. McGinn this week, she recommended keeping in good practice with having orgasms before SRS, because this will aid in being able to continue having them after surgery. Sort of a "use it or lose it" thing for orgasms.

Thanks for the advice/info everyone... It's nice to hear that others have taken this path, and that it's possible for me.

Quote
Seems a little like wanting your cake and eating it too.  Why on earth would a MtF want an erection?

Read the thread. Buckeye speaks of taking HRT but not transitioning, and trying to preserve an existing relationship, and specifically says this:

"honestly, if it could get up enough for the very occasional sex we have"

which I quoted in asking the question.

so there's at least one reason - in order to have sex with an otherwise tolerant pre-existing partner.

While I myself have no particular foundness for my "junk" - if it helped ease my wife through my transition to postpone the day when we had sex for the last time (by her statement that she isn't now and isn't going to be bi) then there is value in that.

so yeah, when I start HRT, in those intervening months between the time when i lose natural erections but still do not have such a female form as to turn her off from sex with me altogether - I could definitely see the value in a chemically induced erection....for her sake.

Quote from: Ladyrider on September 17, 2009, 08:08:15 PM
\


Society accepting a person with an erect penis as a female?  Hmm... That could be stretch, but what the heck, good luck with that.

-={LR}=-

Because taking viagra to please your partner obviously entails walking down the street in booty shorts and a cami with a raging hardon.

I was actually about to post about this topic myself, and was happy to find the information here because I'm beginning to experience the same things.

I'm one month on estrogen, half a year on spiro. I am following the advice that's been given plenty of times to make sure to use it or lose it when it comes both to the elasticity and health of the tissue, along with orgasm function. It's definitely changing. I've had one completely dry orgasm, I think, but mostly it's a much less intense contraction, with a small ejaculation, or no ejaculation at orgasm but some dripping afterward. I think that some of the lessened intensity is because there's less fluid present, it seemed to me that 'depleting the stores' made orgasms less intense even before HRT. Full erection is much more challenging to obtain on my own and not necessary for orgasm. I do wonder how long it will be, if ever, that I lose that function.

Some women out there like strapons - we've got one built in, for a little while, at least. Also some people aren't so self loathing that they can't enjoy sex with someone they care about, even if they'd prefer things to be different.

Quote
Society accepting a person with an erect penis as a female?  Hmm... That could be stretch, but what the heck, good luck with that.

Society outside the bedroom I guess...unless one plans to wander around at half-mast in public :)

Quote from: finewine on September 18, 2009, 04:55:34 AM
Society outside the bedroom I guess...unless one plans to wander around at half-mast in public :)

Very true LOL.  However more to the point...  Society accepting that a woman can have a penis would be a hard sell, but stranger things have happened.

-={LR}=-

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Quote from: Autumn on September 17, 2009, 11:08:00 PM
Because taking viagra to please your partner obviously entails walking down the street in booty shorts and a cami with a raging hardon.
...
Some women out there like strapons - we've got one built in, for a little while, at least. Also some people aren't so self loathing that they can't enjoy sex with someone they care about, even if they'd prefer things to be different.

I was being a little tongue in check speaking of the erect penis :) , and I agree that there are some who would have no problem having sex with a woman who has a penis, but I was referring to society in general.

-={LR}=-

I hate to sound like a downer here, but have you talked with your wife about starting HRT? Eventually, even a low dose will cause the factory equipment to stop functioning, breasts to grow, muscle/body changes, etc as well as the emotional aspects. Taking hormones in secret is most likely not going to have a positive end for your marriage. I'm not talking about transition issues here, I'm talking about *trust* issues. The most common refrain I've seen from wives whose spouses talk about transitioning is that they were "lied to". And that generally leads to the wife wondering "what else they weren't told". Once trust is broken it's very difficult to repair, if it's possible at all.

I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue this path (or any other), but if you want your marriage to survive, then your wife needs to be on board with you. And it's going to mean compromises on both sides. I'd suggest therapy for *both* of you (*before* any HRT!) You may want to do a few couples sessions in there. I can't say what's going through your wife's mind right now, but she's probably afraid of a lot of things and hopefully therapy will help her work through those fears.

GID doesn't go away. Dani and I have been there; done that. Good luck.

WR

Hi MTF and everyone, two things. First, I'm sure you are well aware of the side effects of the meds. Most seem like you'd want to really consider before going on them. I'm definitely thinking your wife should see them too. This is one of the intake forms at Fenway Trans Health Center, one of the leading trans clinics in the US. Maybe read the informed consent you need to sign before starting HRT and let your wife read it too so she knows what she's getting into. http://www.fenwayhealth.org/site/DocServer/Informed_Consent_-_Estrogen_Therapy.pdf?docID=2201 (http://www.fenwayhealth.org/site/DocServer/Informed_Consent_-_Estrogen_Therapy.pdf?docID=2201)

Also, regarding the sex part question. I've been on HRT for two years (almost to the day) and just speaking for myself, I don't ejaculate. There's a huge difference between having an orgasm and ejaculating. Just as many women just become a little more lubricated down there and don't have a whole bunch of stuff coming out doesn't mean they don't orgasm. Our bodies are very different. Not to disclose TMI for you all, but I try to um...take matter into my own hands, lol, about once every 60 days to prevent shrinkage and atrophy. I don't really have a sex drive but I can do this every 60 days. I do orgasm but there is no ejaculation at all. Not...one...single...drop. I know many people, even post-orchi, who still have ejaculate. I have no idea why I don't, I don't think there's a problem down there or anything. Oh, also, getting larger down there every 60 days hurts. I think it's because the muscles aren't used to being stretched or something, but it even hurts the next day sometimes. It's definitely a chore to do and not exactly on my fun list of things to do mainly due to physical limitations and mental lack of wanting to do it. I look forward to being with a guy post-op, until then I do what I have to do to get by. Just sharing my 2 years HRT experience down there with you all. Hope it helps :) Meghan

Quote from: Autumn on September 17, 2009, 11:08:00 PMAlso some people aren't so self loathing that they can't enjoy sex with someone they care about, even if they'd prefer things to be different.

perhaps it's self loathing for some, but I plenty enjoy sex with my partner, we just don't require me to have an erection or to ejaculate in order to accomplish orgasm for both of us. But then not all women are into lesbian sex. As I said before, for me now orgasms are more intense, longer lasting, and more deeply satisfying. I (we) basically stimulate only the same area/nerve endings that will be retained after it becomes a clitoris- "practicing up" you might say. It works, but it doesn't mean I don't love practicing. :laugh:

For the record: I have no intention of starting HRT without lengthy discussions with my wife first.

Quote from: mtfbuckeye on September 17, 2009, 10:15:12 PM
Thanks for the advice/info everyone... It's nice to hear that others have taken this path, and that it's possible for me.

Please keep checking and let us know how it is going.  I am in almost exactly the same boat, wanting to keep a partner who doesn't like the idea of transition, but needing to do something about my GID.

Quote from: finewine on September 18, 2009, 04:55:34 AM
Society outside the bedroom I guess...unless one plans to wander around at half-mast in public :)

Exactly.  Unless she's a nudist or a sex worker or some other lifestyle where she's wearing her birthday suit in front of large groups of people, then nobody ever need know that a woman has some extra dangly bits down below and she can be accepted by society outside her house.  The issue would arise(no pun intended!) when such a woman would be looking for a partner - then acceptance may become an issue.  For me, I see myself finding a woman who loves me for my self and see past the physical flesh, in whatever form that flesh is taking.  The issue I see with having a male body is that my soul is not expressed - no woman can see the female behind the flesh.  That's one factor as to why I'm considering a transition.

For those of you who clarified about the difference between ejaculation and orgasm during HRT(I think Becca and Meghan), thank you so much!  I wasn't able to find any info on that anywhere else!  It's a relief to hear that part of things still works, and it sounds like it transforms into something wonderful.  Orgasms for me in my twenties have been so mechanical - I have another thread about them specifically, but I really hope that HRT would bring back some of that electricity that I lost since puberty.

Buckeye, keep us informed.  Things do work out for the better!

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on September 18, 2009, 09:01:30 AM
Hi MTF and everyone, two things. First, I'm sure you are well aware of the side effects of the meds. Most seem like you'd want to really consider before going on them. I'm definitely thinking your wife should see them too. This is one of the intake forms at Fenway Trans Health Center, one of the leading trans clinics in the US. Maybe read the informed consent you need to sign before starting HRT and let your wife read it too so she knows what she's getting into. http://www.fenwayhealth.org/site/DocServer/Informed_Consent_-_Estrogen_Therapy.pdf?docID=2201 (http://www.fenwayhealth.org/site/DocServer/Informed_Consent_-_Estrogen_Therapy.pdf?docID=2201)

Also, regarding the sex part question. I've been on HRT for two years (almost to the day) and just speaking for myself, I don't ejaculate. There's a huge difference between having an orgasm and ejaculating. Just as many women just become a little more lubricated down there and don't have a whole bunch of stuff coming out doesn't mean they don't orgasm. Our bodies are very different. Not to disclose TMI for you all, but I try to um...take matter into my own hands, lol, about once every 60 days to prevent shrinkage and atrophy. I don't really have a sex drive but I can do this every 60 days. I do orgasm but there is no ejaculation at all. Not...one...single...drop. I know many people, even post-orchi, who still have ejaculate. I have no idea why I don't, I don't think there's a problem down there or anything. Oh, also, getting larger down there every 60 days hurts. I think it's because the muscles aren't used to being stretched or something, but it even hurts the next day sometimes. It's definitely a chore to do and not exactly on my fun list of things to do mainly due to physical limitations and mental lack of wanting to do it. I look forward to being with a guy post-op, until then I do what I have to do to get by. Just sharing my 2 years HRT experience down there with you all. Hope it helps :) Meghan

Doesn't the pain come basically from losing it because you aren't using it? Going from at least one erection a day to one every 2 months is... a significant change for the body.

Quote from: calliope on September 19, 2009, 12:00:57 PMit sounds like it transforms into something wonderful.

I wouldn't say that but it works. Different is probably a good word. Wonderful will be having everything shaped right and then working   ^-^

For me the defining things were the much anticipated and annoyingly delayed death of the male sex drive, and ceasing to ejaculate. Now fooling around is a lot less dysphoria provoking because it's a conscious choice and not a reptilian need, and the other thing is pretty self explanatory.

This is an interesting subject, not orgasms but the original idea. I didn't plan on living full time until february of next year, but with the way the hormones made me feel I felt compelled to, damn the torpedoes. The edges are starting to fade now, but for a while it was pretty clear I was a boy in girls clothes; but I felt like I HAD to do it, if that makes any sense at all. The idea of taking hrt and not transitioning socially is interesting to me on an academic level, I'd like to read about it some more if anyone surfaces who has done it because I tried this very thing and failed.

Quote from: Autumn on September 19, 2009, 10:27:05 PM
Doesn't the pain come basically from losing it because you aren't using it? Going from at least one erection a day to one every 2 months is... a significant change for the body.

Should I read all that to mean that when I start on HRT that if I want to avoid tissue shrinkage I should manually stimulate erection (or whatever extent of one I can get) at least, say, weekly or so?

Quote from: Laura Hope on September 20, 2009, 01:56:43 AM
Should I read all that to mean that when I start on HRT that if I want to avoid tissue shrinkage I should manually stimulate erection (or whatever extent of one I can get) at least, say, weekly or so?

it probably means that. There is another interesting thread that Calliope started concerning orgasms here:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,65104.msg432697.html#msg432697 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,65104.msg432697.html#msg432697)

Notice especially Chrissty's replies concerning stimulation and the nerves involved. If you ever plan to have SRS and maintain the ability, I think it's important to begin while still pre-op learning ways to achieve orgasms beyond the same old "grabbing the stick" method. Dr. McGinn agrees with this as well and she should know. The most shrinkage is going to occur in the testicles because they seriously atrophy when they stop producing sperm. You can still get erections though if you work at it and I reckon Viagra could help in that regard, especially if you've used it successfully in the past.

Before HRT I thought yeah, I could use Viagra if I needed to to get it up, but afterwards the freedom I found from that "reptilian" sex drive Becca mentioned was like a breath of fresh air and I found I no longer had any desire to continue having sex like a male, it only triggered serious dysphoria feels. Of course YMMV but remember that's a possibility when you start HRT. And as described in the link above, there are other ways to have much better orgasms.

hi
i have the same problem here, have a wife, who love to see me dressed in feminie cloth, she even bought me some, but we have a problem which is she love to have sex, love my to penetrate her, for me, i was very happy when my privates shrink and i was impotence, but she was very upset, which is problem i can't handle, other than that, i felt very happy when i noticed the change after 3 monthes hrt

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Post Merge: September 28, 2009, 01:24:41 PM

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hi
i have the same problem here, have a wife, who love to see me dressed in feminie cloth, she even bought me some, but we have a problem which is she love to have sex, love my to penetrate her, for me, i was very happy when my privates shrink and i was impotence, but she was very upset, which is problem i can't handle, other than that, i felt very happy when i noticed the change after 3 monthes hrt