Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm thinking I may have to pull the plug on my transition.  It seems no one takes it seriously (always using "he" when referring to me) that and everyone sees right through it anyway.  I'd rather be miserable without having to put a bunch of effort into it.

Each comes to at point when it is ether persist to be true to ones self or give in the views of others.

As much as I would love to talk you into continue on your journey, you need to do what is important to you Maddie, no one else. 

But no matter what you decide, I wish you well and remember that you always have our love and support here.


Janet

The problem isn't getting to be my true self but getting the world to acknowledge it.  The whole point of transitioning to not have to hear sir all the time and if that's going to persist what's the point?  If I have to be referred to as "he" and be called sir then at least I won't be humiliated for it.

Quote from: Maddie Suzumiya on September 24, 2009, 11:54:41 AM
The problem isn't getting to be my true self but getting the world to acknowledge it. 

The problem is you can never get the world to acknowledge you, why should they?  This is about you not them.

QuoteThe whole point of transitioning to not have to hear sir all the time and if that's going to persist what's the point?  If I have to be referred to as "he" and be called sir then at least I won't be humiliated for it.

Er No!... The whole point of transitioning is to become the person you are regardless of what others think

Is it better to be hated for who you are, than loved for who you are not.  Geeze being called sir and referred to as he is the least of your problems.  While most will come around over time, many will not, you will always be male to them, and I'm afraid there's nothing you can do about it.  It's a case of Mind over matter"... "I don't mind and they don't matter"

Stop whining.

-={LR}=-

Letting others define your life through their ostracizing is always a bad idea. Never, never, never, EVER give up something because other people don't like it. If that's how you live your live your life, you're better off eating a grenade or something...

i don't know the specifics of what ur up against, & in the end only u can make ur own decisions. in my case transitionig was not an option for most of my life. i slowly went from thinking i can never live as woman, to knowing i can never live as a man. there's no such thing as an easy transition, but if u can find a way to strategize & plan out the aspects you have control over in transitioning(especially money), it will make things less painful. i fought against who i am for many yrs & have paid a very high price, & am not the only one here who has. (((Huggs)))! Isabella   

Quote from: Bellaon7 on September 24, 2009, 06:46:06 PM
i don't know the specifics of what ur up against, & in the end only u can make ur own decisions.

i slowly went from thinking i can never live as woman, to knowing i can never live as a man.

Isabella

This is something only you can decide, Maddie.  It takes people a while to change their habits.  I confronted people at two different businesses this week for using male pronouns and "sir".  I think it went well, but it took a toll on me.  I'm tired of it but feel I have no choice but to keep pressing forward.

Transitioning is very difficult and complicated, and those around us are transitioning too, seeing us as the new (yet same) person.

Hang in there.  Decide what is right for you.  We wish you well, whatever you decide.

*hugs*
Kate

Okay, I was having a bit of a breakdown earlier today.  I had a collapse of confidence and was contemplating going back.  The thought of having to live as a man really does sicken me (to the point of being in tears at the thought of it).  Still, I am the type who wants nothing more than to just blend in with everyone which means I don't want people to know I'm trans unless they knew me from before in which case they're going to find out anyway.  I know some are perfectly being out as trans but its just not for me; I'm an all or nothing kind of girl. 

I've only been on HRT since May but I know I pass pretty well which is why being called "he" and "sir" at work is so frustrating even though I'm out with everyone there.  Apparently it's not obvious that one wishes to be called by a different set of pronouns when they transition
and it must be explained to everyone.
Armed with this I can manage the journey.

im glad your coming around ball is right if this is truly you the longer you wait the more damage you will do to yourself and the people you care about im 42 and could have finished this years ago it never goes away hun it just gets worse the longer you delay

Maddie, I'm struggling with the same issues.  I live in a small town, so lots of people know I used to present male (yech).  I'm considerably older and so figure I'll never pass 100%. 

It is hard to accept, but I am trans and was born trans and will always be trans.  It is a normally-occuring condition and I need to accept it and everyone around me needs to accept it, too.  For me, I don't think I will be happy pretending to be something I'm not: a cis-woman.  I walk around as one and present myself to the world as one, but for me I need to keep that little kernel in the back of my brain that I am not.  And that way, when the inevitable happens and I don't pass, I have a cushion of protection and can say "Yeah, and so what?"

We all work on this differently and need to do what works for us.  One of the hard things about this is that one size does not fit all.

Good luck, Maddie. :D

- Kate

I know it is hard these days...seriously think about changing jobs.   Nobody at work outside of HR knows I have transitioned.  HR only knows for medical leave and job history reasons.

Also seriously consider having FFS.  I am not going out on a limb when saying some level is a necessity if your goal is assimiliation.  As much as I hate to say this with the older women on this board who don't go this route...they are not the assimiliation types.  Most younger (20's and early 30's) get FFS for a reason.  They do want to assimiliate.  I am not saying you will pass 100% of the time, but 99.99999% of the time is better than not assimiliating. 

Secondly, you are still very early on HRT.  Six months is not very long. 

Don't expect respect, also don't buy into "its on the inside".  Asthetics matter and quite a bit.  The only folks that buy "the inside counts" line are older trans women who will never assimiliate.  Your first order of business should be finding a good surgeon for FFS.  Dr. Leis and Dr. Speigel are the two I recommend, but I am out east, where it is a short trip to either.  After FFS, start looking for a new job.  That is the only path to assimiliation I know.  FFS + New Job. 

I'm only 22 and its not really my face that's the problem aside from some residual facial hair shadow.  I have a rather athletic build so my musculature is still pronounced more than it ought to be.  Diet and exercise have done some things for me but not as much as I would have liked so far. 

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc1%2Fhs208.snc1%2F7522_103275609685190_100000082533084_95628_7043219_n.jpg&hash=e23b5bf3b2fe6655a9ab32d61dd5b05fb25535ca)

Thanks for all the kind words, everyone.

Well if you are still excercizing, that is PART of the problem.

To me you still look male.  Honestly, go get laser done (you have darker hair...skip electrolisis, its more expensive, takes longer). WAY to much facial hair.

You do need facial feminization surgery, I am not going to say anymore than that, I don't want to risk sounding insulting. (Nose and scalp advance).  You don't need much work done, but you do need some done.  But I can see where there is confusion. 

Basically, at this point I can see why its happening to you.  You may very well could have jumped into full time too soon.  You still have alot of work that needs to be done with the asthetics.  Not meaning to be hurtful, just honest.  Also the soft tissue has not really fallen in place enough with regards to the face.

Word of advice...Don't wear your hair back.

I'm curious, Sweetstars.  You've stated a number of times that older transitioners can't assimilate.  Do you see that as due to the fact that they can't physically (too much masculinization), can't socially (too many ties to society and to their past), or for some other reason? ???

- Kate

Quote from: K8 on September 25, 2009, 07:47:17 PM
I'm curious, Sweetstars.  You've stated a number of times that older transitioners can't assimilate.  Do you see that as due to the fact that they can't physically (too much masculinization), can't socially (too many ties to society and to their past), or for some other reason? ???

- Kate

I would say most older transitioners neither assimiliate physically or socially.  I would say a big reason is there is to much masculinization involved which destroys the body and the voice.  But there is not assimiliation socially either.  Honestly, I don't think assimiliation on any level is possible unless you start transition younger than 35.  Honestly if you transition older your expectations should be rather low. 

Quote from: sweetstars on September 26, 2009, 05:47:35 PM
I would say most older transitioners neither assimiliate physically or socially.  I would say a big reason is there is to much masculinization involved which destroys the body and the voice.  But there is not assimiliation socially either.  Honestly, I don't think assimiliation on any level is possible unless you start transition younger.  Honestly if you transition older your expectations should be rather low.

Once again the younger ones think us older girls have no chance.  Well, Hon, you could not be any more incorrect.  Yes it maybe harder, but it can and is done all the time.  Younger does not mean you have a better chance, just a longer one.

And I am 55.


Janet

Quote from: Janet Lynn on September 26, 2009, 05:54:50 PM
Once again the younger ones think us older girls have no chance.  Well, Hon, you could not be any more incorrect.  Yes it maybe harder, but it can and is done all the time.  Younger does not mean you have a better chance, just a longer one.

And I am 55.


Janet

From what I can tell assimiliation doesn't happen.  There is a big difference between passing, and assimilation.  From what I can tell is most older women are seen as trans women, but never natal women.  This is what assimilation is, being seen as natal. 

These are the questions you should ask...are they seeing a woman or a trans woman.  With older trans women, they always see the trans woman.  I don't get that. 

How often do people ask you about your relationships...about marrying a guy, having kids.  How often can you speak about your past, and not lie, and still have it seem like you have always been a woman.  I can do that, can you?  That is what assimilation is about.  Its not having much baggage from ones past.  Which means no marriage, no kids before transition, and a visual appearance that is consistently female...without makeup.  It means working in a profession and having a resume that does not deviate much from the norm for women.  This means no overtly masculine professions.  It means to blend in completely. 

How good is your voice?    Most older trans women I have met its horrid.  I offer you something else.  Older trans women don't assimilate, they are humored, but still seen as trans, not natal women.

If you want to be seen as a trans women that is fine.  Just please don't consider it the same as the assimilation that those of us who transitioned younger experience.

I can't relate to older trans women for a reason.  The way I live my life is very very different, my past is very different.  I didn't make the stupid mistakes older trans women did. 

And you haven't suffered as older girls have.  54 years of living in THAT life.
You're what 20ish?  Yeah if only, but back in those days you would be stoned to do what we can do now.

You need to thank the older girls, you so look down on for blazing the trail you are now following, instead of looking down your nose at us.


Janet

Quote from: Janet Lynn on September 26, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
And you haven't suffered as older girls have.  54 years of living in THAT life.
You're what 20ish?  Yeah if only, but back in those days you would be stoned to do what we can do now.

You need to thank the older girls, you so look down on for blazing the trail you are now following, instead of looking down your nose at us.


Janet

Thank you...FOR WHAT!
I don't think those who transitioned at an old age blazed any trails.  Who I do thank are those who transitioned at a young age and were brave enough to do so when the odds were even more against them.  I don't thank any trans woman who put it off, got married, and was rather stupid decisions about their life.  Those who chose a MASCULINE life, and transitioned after most of thier life was over.    Honestly speaking I don't think those who transitioned older have any excuses, or blazed any trails.  I have every right to look my nose down at you and any other woman who transitions at an older age.  The ones who transitioned young, back when the odds were stacked against them...they deserve the credit, and only them, because they were brave.  But those who transitioned later in life who did not have the courage to transition in the 70s and 80s when it WAS available...they blazed no trail, nor were they brave.  Instead you chose a male life, frequently a stereotypically masculine life, and you want me to thank you for blazing a trail, WHAT TRAIL?  I know who to thank, its not those who started their transitions when they were older.  Its the women who did it when they were young years ago, when the odds were stacked against them. I give credit where credit is due.  Older trans women, especially the ones now, don't deserve any of it. 

A reminder, no personal attacks please! Everyone's lives and experiences are different, people transition when it is right for them to do it, not before.

Z

as i see it, it comes down to attitude

"us" vs "them"
"young" vs "old"
"male" vs "female"
"beauty" vs "beast"

Quote
Walton Simons: You take another step forward and here I am again, like your own reflection in a hall of mirrors.
JC Denton: That makes me one ugly son of a bitch.

some just get it when it comes to managing their lives, others don't, some cope better pre-transition, others aren't. in the end it isn't when it (transition) happened, when it ends and how, or why, but the integration of mind, body and spirit into harmony

QuoteJC Denton: We... are... one.

before i thought of it like a path everyone took which was similar but unique to each person, but now i think of transition as more like navigating ones way through an unfamiliar city. many make it to their destination, some don't and get lost and either loop around until they get guidance, return back where they came from, or crash.

not being able to go forwards sucks, but the only "car" i can "drive" is my own, i may sigh at the thought of turning back, but i have to wish you (Maddie Suzumiya) good luck to wherever life takes you

This:

Quote from: Flan on September 27, 2009, 12:31:20 AM
in the end it isn't when it (transition) happened, when it ends and how, or why, but the integration of mind, body and spirit into harmony

Maddie,

I'm sorry if I hijacked your thread.  This is a difficult road to walk, and it is a different road for each of us.  I too often have needed reassurance from others to get over doubts and problems. 

I hope that you find what you need to become the person you need to be – whoever that person may be.

*hugs, Maddie*
Kate

Its alright and apparently I'm just not photogenic.  Apparently the closeness to my face combined with the crappy quality of the camera phone causes parallax error and makes everything out of proportion. 

I'm feeling a lot better about transition and have full confidence that given enough time I can assimilate fully. 

Quote from: sweetstars on September 26, 2009, 09:04:08 PM
From what I can tell assimiliation doesn't happen.  There is a big difference between passing, and assimilation.  From what I can tell is most older women are seen as trans women, but never natal women.  This is what assimilation is, being seen as natal. 

These are the questions you should ask...are they seeing a woman or a trans woman.  With older trans women, they always see the trans woman.  I don't get that. 

How often do people ask you about your relationships...about marrying a guy, having kids.  How often can you speak about your past, and not lie, and still have it seem like you have always been a woman.  I can do that, can you?  That is what assimilation is about.  Its not having much baggage from ones past.  Which means no marriage, no kids before transition, and a visual appearance that is consistently female...without makeup.  It means working in a profession and having a resume that does not deviate much from the norm for women.  This means no overtly masculine professions.  It means to blend in completely. 

How good is your voice?    Most older trans women I have met its horrid.  I offer you something else.  Older trans women don't assimilate, they are humored, but still seen as trans, not natal women.

If you want to be seen as a trans women that is fine.  Just please don't consider it the same as the assimilation that those of us who transitioned younger experience.

I can't relate to older trans women for a reason.  The way I live my life is very very different, my past is very different.  I didn't make the stupid mistakes older trans women did.

Maddie, Girl you look great! All I would suggest is laser!  :)
Janet, you look awesome! I hope my transition to treat me well as it has to you  ;)

Maddie I just see a GIRL ..... with 5 o'clock shadow for some strange reason.

More time on hormones and yeah I guess it's some kind of electrolysis for the el-beardo, and you should be set.

All aboard the cute train to Cuteville!

The strange thing is that I had just pulled out all the hairs on my face which are already sparse due to the laser I've had done (6 treatments).  Under normal lighting conditions there isn't any shadow (well maybe a bit on my upper lip where the skin itself seems to be a shade darker).  I think it's due to the bad lighting where I took the picture since my entire neck seems to have the same shadow color.  OK, I'm through with excuses.  ;)

gurl i knw wat u mean maybe get some hair extensions and more make up! no offense or anything! ur face isn't obvious ur pretty lucky!

Teena