Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Since it's more than likely the debate over stealth will come up again and again I'm offering anyone who wants to define what stealth is to them here.  If the subject comes up in another thread all you have to do is provide the link to your specific post and you won't have to repeat yourself.

Do not challenge or try to debate the definition another posts here.  Each definition is specific to that person and not open for challenge or debate.  If you want to ask for clarification, feel free to do so.  But no one who posts their definition is wrong because it is theirs.  Do not, in your definition, refer to another definition with which you disagree.  "I disagree with so-and-so's definition....what it should be is..."  Simply state your own opinion without reference to anothers opinion.

To find the web address of your post; post your message, click on the title of your specific message (in this case it would be something like "RE: My Definition of Stealth Is.....") and when the page reloads the new web address comes up in the address bar at the top of your page.  If you want, you can change the title before you post so it is unique from the other titles in the thread.

I begin with the dictionary definition.  Since there are usually more than one meaning I'm choosing the one that refers to moving "imperceptibly".  Specifically it means one can move, interact, and basically live in their world without anyone knowing, suspecting, questioning or having any curiosity regarding their gender presentation.

In my interpretation of what stealth means one can be stealth to varying degrees.  100% stealth (period) means there is no difference between how those in your everyday world perceive your gender and how those same people perceive the gender of someone of the same gender as your identified gender.  In other words, no one knows your birth gender and never suspects it's anything but your identified gender.

Other forms of stealth could be simply going out into the world imperceptibly.  "I went out tonight and was completely stealth."  (This implies a temporary situation and is not the same as the above definition.)

I use "socially stealth" to refer to going out to do everyday things imperceptibly unless you run into someone who knows your history.  You go to the grocery store and no one questions your gender but then you run into your sister.  (not that she outs you, just that she knows.)

In my definition, stealth has varying degrees.  100% is the rarest because it means cutting off all family and friends.  It's worse than the witness protection program.  But I leave it flexible for simplicity.  A CD who goes out and passes with everyone can say "I was totally stealth last night" and if that's how they see it, that's what I accept.

Julie

My definition is same as yours Julie.

Also agree, Julie.

Even Calpernia Addams and Andrea James are not Stealth because many many people know who they are.


Janet

So Julie, would you say that the only difference in your categories is the amount of time it is sustainable?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

:icon_chuckel:

I'll begin with Dawn's Dictionary description:

Stealth - Adjective/Noun,

To hide, not wanting to be seen or known, Living in secret/the closet.
__________________________________________________________

Stealth can have essentially two phases in my view, before transition and after transition. Either way one is still hiding or not wanting to be found out. Stealth can have it's advantages and it's disadvantages.

Stealth, arriving at the same place you started from; living in secret. The only real difference is you're now a different person. But you are still living a secret.


Dawn

Will there be a prize for the best definition?  I think that once we've dealt with stealth we should have a go at pre-op, post op, non-op, how about TS and of course lets define umbrellas.

The winning definition could be attached/included in the TOS for everyone to adhere to and obey.

Second thoughts... nah lets not, we would have to argue about a first prize.  But on the oft chance that I may win... Here's mine:

If I can Ph*ck you, then I fooled you, now that is stealth.

-={LR}=-

The need for the term "deep stealth" implies that "stealth" comes in degrees. If "stealth" meant 100% invisibility to the world of one's pre-transition life and nothing less, then there would be no need for "deep stealth."

Using Janet's example, I always figured that Andrea James and Calpernia Addams used "Deep Stealth" ironically, since their lives, and especially their business of that name, are the very opposite of stealth, that is, "out and proud." ("Proud," not in the sence of, "Yay, being trans rocks," but in the sense of, "Yes, I'm trans, so what?")

I don't really think that "passing" and "stealth" ought to be used as synonyms or even different degrees on the same spectrum. Stealth, to me, is about one's attitude toward life, while passing is about how one is perceived in social settings. James and Addams pass quite well, but don't try to hide their past. If you want stealth, look at Lynn Conway's life before she was outed. She probably didn't pass quite as well as James and Addams -- if anyone was looking, and perhaps only because FFS wasn't available to her until later -- but even if someone had suspicions, they couldn't confirm them. That's stealth.

I consider them both to be words with highly charged political connotations, so I avoid using them.

Thank you Julie for making this thread, great idea.  ;)

A couple of the definitions I came across when looking up definitions:

Quote from: http://geekbabe.com/annie/feature/gloss.html
Stealth
1. Living and passing in society in the opposite gender role, with absolutely no contact with the Community, and no knowledge of such by friends, coworkers, associates, etc. 2. Highly closeted, giving no hint of being transgender(ed) to friends, spouse, etc. 3. Any of several variants of the above. Term is somewhat overloaded.

The "community" in reference is the transgender community, which is just one of the references that mention having no contact whatsoever.

Here is an entire page dedicated to what it means to be "stealth". Some very good information there. [edited to remove expired link]

Like everyone else I agree that stealth is something achievable and/or attained in degrees, and doesn't necessarily mean you have "finished transitioning", nor does saying that imply that transition does not end at some point. I live, work, and play 24/7 as a woman now because I am a woman. After my SRS next June the only thing I see really changing in my life is that my outie will become an innie and my panties will fit a little better. I can't judge my degree of stealth because I don't regularly ask people "hey do I pass?" All I know is everyone I interact with treats me as being female, I'm always addressed with feminine pronouns and "ma'am", "ms.", or other terms generally reserved for females. I have yet to have anyone question my presented gender, in public restrooms or anywhere else, so either every single person everywhere is just being incredibly accepting and considerate or else they just see another woman in the crowd.

Quote from: Kristi on October 16, 2009, 04:57:05 PM
So Julie, would you say that the only difference in your categories is the amount of time it is sustainable?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

It doesn't matter what I think.  Only what you think.  Inside this thread, no one is wrong.

My thoughts on stealth would be - nobody knows (except those who birthed you) and nobody can find out (without hiring a PI).

Quote from: Blanche on October 16, 2009, 11:28:53 PM
I don't believe that stealth has anything to do with being post-operative.  I was stealth to a certain extent long before I had GRS  My definition of Stealth has to do with being indistinguishable from other females in appearance, assimilation & history.  By history I mean any paper trails & documentation that could out you as trans.   Let me explain, as a woman that's had FFS I pass perfectly but if I were to apply for new employment, open an acct, buy a car, a home, my former identity (credit references, background) would be revealed in an instant with a big fat M.  Unfortunately I didn't transition until I was 28 & I had some history as my former identity.  By that scenario I'm not completely stealth in Switzerland (my native country), but where I live now there's no paper documentation that could link me to a former identity, so here I'm wholly stealth.

Quote from: Blanche on October 16, 2009, 11:32:27 PMMy definition of Stealth has to do with being indistinguishable from other females in appearance, assimilation & history.

That would be my own definition too.

I have never used this "stealth" word at all regarding my post-op self.

I see "stealth" as an intermediate step between "passing" and assimilation.

"Passing" is (in my perception) when you are deliberately creating a false impression. I.E. your male, a guy, but passing as female on a superficial level (appearance, mannerisms, voice) and you know you are male. It is a put-on, an act.

"Stealth" (to me) is more like you have had SRS, you believe you are a woman and act like a woman most of the time but you have this dirty little secret that you are slipping by everyone, except maybe those you feel need to know.

Beyond that is assimilation. You are so totally and completely integrated into womanhood that there is nothing else, anything else is incomprehensible - it is all just easy and natural all the time.

Stealth to me is when I am identified (with out a doubt) as a woman in normal everyday activities amoungst strangers and when my friends find it hard to believe that I was ever a guy. Can some one tell me when a transition ends because I believe it never does

Quote from: Krissy_Australia on October 17, 2009, 04:06:29 AM
Stealth to me is when I am identified (with out a doubt) as a woman in normal everyday activities amoungst strangers and when my friends find it hard to believe that I was ever a guy. Can some one tell me when a transition ends because I believe it never does

I have never thought about when a transition ends.  Away from this forum, I never think about the subject as I conduct my life.

I struggle with the term transition. Our personalities are always evolving so I sought of regard transition as moving onto something else in our lifes. In a transgender term would it mean your transition end when you regard yourself as stealth

Is stealth active or passive? Does a person practice stealth in order to hide something, or does a person accept stealth with the knowledge there may be something to be found out about them; if a third party explores enough?

Do you accept yourself or do you hope others accept you?

Interesting topic and concept. I presume we are discussing this in relevance to gender. But it exists universally in all people. How many dirty little secrets have come out from politicians, kidnappers & rapists etc that have tried to live a stealthly life. BTW just picking on groups at random. I believe it was a USA president (can't remeber who) who said I smoked pot but never inhaled. Another stealthy secret?

How many pretend doctors, surgeons have lived and worked without any qualifications.

Possibly stealth is a normal part of life. We all have secrets. Some big some small.

I'm increasingly coming to the notion that my secret is rather small in the scheme of things. I hope I keep going that way.


Or is stealth a form of acceptance? I am what I am, don't look to deeply?

Cindy,

Quote from: Krissy_Australia on October 17, 2009, 04:25:20 AM
I struggle with the term transition. Our personalities are always evolving so I sought of regard transition as moving onto something else in our lifes. In a transgender term would it mean your transition end when you regard yourself as stealth

You are right Krissy, it's just a term I use and really don't think about.

I have never used the word "stealth" and am not likely to.

Stealth is an illusion.


Dawn

Stealth is an illusion for those people that arent stealth, cannot be stealth & will never be stealth.

Quote from: Yvonne on October 18, 2009, 04:35:36 AM
Stealth is an illusion for those people that arent stealth, cannot be stealth & will never be stealth.

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 16, 2009, 02:34:43 PM
Do not challenge or try to debate the definition another posts here.  Each definition is specific to that person and not open for challenge or debate.  If you want to ask for clarification, feel free to do so.  But no one who posts their definition is wrong because it is theirs.  Do not, in your definition, refer to another definition with which you disagree.  "I disagree with so-and-so's definition....what it should be is..."  Simply state your own opinion without reference to anothers opinion

Stealth is when you can go a really long period of time without having any kind of conversation IRL about trans related stuff.

Or, in other words, the period wherin everyone in the world either doesn't know you are trans or doesn't care to a degree that it doesn't affect your relationship with them at all.

There, I win.

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 18, 2009, 11:23:01 AMDo not challenge or try to debate the definition another posts here.  Each definition is specific to that person and not open for challenge or debate.  If you want to ask for clarification, feel free to do so.  But no one who posts their definition is wrong because it is theirs.  Do not, in your definition, refer to another definition with which you disagree.  I disagree with so-and-sos definition....what it should be is...  Simply state your own opinion without reference to anothers opinion

Fair enough but when someone makes a broad generalisation and says [stealth is an illusion]. something needs to be said.  [stealth may be an illusion] for the person that says it, but it doesnt mean that its an [illusion] for everybody else.  I thought the thread had to do with what YOUR OWN definition of stealth was as applied to YOURSELF & not to others.  If stealth is an illusion for you, fine, say so but dont you ever speak for me, please.

Quote from: Yvonne on October 31, 2009, 02:17:19 AM
Fair enough but when someone makes a broad generalisation and says [stealth is an illusion]. something needs to be said.  [stealth may be an illusion] for the person that says it, but it doesnt mean that its an [illusion] for everybody else.  I thought the thread had to do with what YOUR OWN definition of stealth was as applied to YOURSELF & not to others.  If stealth is an illusion for you, fine, say so but dont you ever speak for me, please.

Read the title: "My Definition of stealth is..."  Read the original post.  There are no broad generalizations here, only personal definitions.  The thread is for your own definition, not using another's definition in redefining your own. 

No one is speaking for you.  I don't know why you feel they are. 

Julie

To me it means quietly blending into society.

I think that being stealth is the opposite of being 'out' or openly trans. Sure, you don't have to tell EVERYONE and their dog that your trans, that just isn't really necessary most of the time, but having a circle of people know you're trans, or being open about issues/amenities of life as a trans person would be, being open about it.

If you're not open about it, or you're 'stealth', to me, means that you're living a life where no one knows, or very very little people, even those close to you or even those romantically involved with you, know, and you work hard to keep it that way, keep being trans a secret. For me it was always hiding binding, denying/never bringing up 'periods', never talking in my comfort zone (always deepened my voice, always hurt at the end of the day) packing CONSTANTLY, always using the men's room, never letting ANYONE see me naked/even partially disrobed. If you're actively trying to thwart people from 'finding out' you're trans, to the point where you're keeping many things 'hidden' or 'to yourself' then I consider that stealth.

If your own partner and best friends don't know you're trans, then it's stealth, that's what I think it means.

Stealth = a wild, passionate weekend with a straight conservative male who doesn't know your medical background when you meet and still doesn't when you part!

(DAMN! That's the best "stealth" I have had in years! ROFLMAO! )

My definition of stealth is when you reach the point, as I did about two decades  ago (i'm now about 30 years post-op), where it no longer matters whether someone knows or not because you have been female for so long that even those who did know of your past seem to have forgotten.

Then one day I found myself in the ridiculous situation where to make a point I decided to tell someone, who who had known me for some while but didn't know, about my past, and they point blank refused to believe it and started accusing me of winding them up!

Their logic was that one of our mutual friends would have told them before now if what I was claiming was true and they hadn't so it couldn't be true. Eventually I got one of our mutual associates who did know to reluctantly confirm my story, but the person who questioned it still wouldn't accept it.

Quote from: heatherrose on October 31, 2009, 02:46:18 PM

People don't stop talking when you walk into
a room and they talk to as well as about you.

Accidentally sitting on a wet chair and
worrying what the guys will think as they
check out your butt when you walk by.

Having to explain to the nurse that it is
extremely unlikely that you are pregnant.

Worrying that someone, somewhere,
somehow is going to make your life
more complicated than it already is.

Definitely.

This happened during my last mammogram about three months back.  I was sitting on the exam table answering the nurses pre-lim questions (I was a new patient).  After the usual age, weight, medications I'm taking questions she asked:

"When did you have your first period?" - "I'm sorry I just can't remember, it's was so long ago."
"When did you have your last period?" - "I smiles and simply said Jeez I just can't remember, but it has been a while now"

That's my definition of stealth.

-={LR}=-

My definition of stealth is: to be a run of the mill woman in all situations as opposed to being or looking like a run of the mill bloke in a dress.

And I would consider "assimilation" to be like 15 years ago when rumours of my ancient medical history went through my community and most people dismissed it as poppycock - "A bit eccentric maybe but a woman for sure."  ;D

I think that stealth isn't the same now as it was just a few years ago because of the rise of independent background databases which are totally unregulated. The best one can do is to pass in day to day life but in doing any activity where the background must be checked. That means getting a job, renting a house, buying a car or applying for credit anywhere, will out you.

So one can pass and be accepted as their preferred gender in public as strangers but eventually, in a small community, people will know.

Maggie

I think I consider my life to be deep stealth. I live in another country and have done for 15 years. All my work colleagues and friends and aquaintances have absolutely no idea about my past or suspect a thing. All my documentation (passport, driving license, birth certificate, my social security Id) all shows female. I have a brilliant job working for a large US multi-national and get to travel all over the place.
The only people who know my past is my family who still live in the UK and one very close friend who I've know since I transitioned and she always treated me like one of the girls anyway.
Even my doctor doesn't know anything as my medical records were never transferred from the UK.
It's great to live in stealth, to go about your everyday life and not be worried about being attacked because you look male, however I constantly have to be making stories up about my 'missing' years, lack of children etc. But this is a small price to pay

A dream that will never die.  Simlpy put, without anyone knowing. 

Quote100% stealth (period) means there is no difference between how those in your everyday world perceive your gender and how those same people perceive the gender of someone of the same gender as your identified gender.  In other words, no one knows your birth gender and never suspects it's anything but your identified gender.

Well, I don't know how that bar is ever achieved as it is impossible to know if anyone "suspects."

For me, stealth is having women with whom I having an intimate relationship ask me if I have stopped menstruating, or, if they assume I am post-menopausal. how long has it been since I had my last period.

When even 4'2"" inch Asians started calling me Ma'am or Miss, I knew I was on my way. Better yet was being called Madam in Thailand and Japan.

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Post Merge: July 30, 2010, 04:12:56 PM

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Quote from: Yvonne on October 31, 2009, 02:17:19 AM
Fair enough but when someone makes a broad generalisation and says [stealth is an illusion]. something needs to be said.  [stealth may be an illusion] for the person that says it, but it doesnt mean that its an [illusion] for everybody else.  I thought the thread had to do with what YOUR OWN definition of stealth was as applied to YOURSELF & not to others.  If stealth is an illusion for you, fine, say so but dont you ever speak for me, please.

It's pretty hard to have a discussion without some disagreement or debate. If everyone was of the same mind, there would be no reason for this discussion.

hmm...interesting.  i reserve my definition of "stealth" for people who live their lives passing themselves off as something they are not.  if they feel they're something other than woman.  iow deceptive, lying, malevolent, not female, then they're "stealth".

Quote from: Hannah on October 31, 2009, 01:39:16 PM
To me it means quietly blending into society.

The best answer in the entire thread, I lived in stealth and was happy, was only unhappy when I was outed or my history became an issue.
Now Im getting married to a guy and his family doesn't know my history, just a woman with a history in the distance past.
p

Quote from: Hannah on October 31, 2009, 01:39:16 PM
To me it means quietly blending into society.

I couldn't agree more with this and Pauline. I hate when others put down ''stealth'' or people that do live stealth, like I do and am very happy. stealth is possible, it's not about hiding one self, it's about just living your life as the person you wanted to for years not putting a 'label'' on yourself.

Personally I think trying to be actively stealthy is tantamount to sticking yourself in a paranoid box similar to the one that was occupied when you were living in denial of who you were. Constantly watching yourself and others, terrified of being found out...that's not an existence I want to live.

it's always the people who couldn't live stealth if they tried, JEALOUS of those who can. thats why so many people are against it DON'T HATE

Quote from: TheDutchess on August 01, 2010, 05:46:35 PM
it's always the people who couldn't live stealth if they tried, JEALOUS of those who can. thats why so many people are against it DON'T HATE

I beg to differ. I don't hate at all, but I do think it is the wrong thing to do.

In 30 years believe me when I tell you I've done both approaches, and successfully too. As a matter of fact I've done stealth twice. Once right at the start of my postop period the other more recently.

The second time I went stealth I had just buried my last living close relative and moved to a different part of the country so there was little to out me.

At the time I even got away with it to the point that most of our neighbours (many of whom Alison had chosen to tell about herself) were saying how nice it was that I was so accepting of Alison!

Alison is a SAINT for having put up with all that for nearly a decade, during which I was honestly believed by almost all of the neighbours, as Ali herself will confirm, to be her CIS ex-wife or partner.

That must have been utterly galling for her and it didn't make me happy at all, but she never once complained. She just let me do what I wanted, and she did what she believed was right, which was to loyally go along with the deception whilst being honest about herself. Heck I was a bastard... I even thought about leaving her once or twice - fearful that she might eventually "give me away".

That alone made me feel bad, and in my experience it does indeed become a paranoic state to live in... but that is said not to hate, but merely in the spirit of sharing my genuine experience and hoping that some may learn from it and avoid making the same mistakes that I did.

Just about the only positive thing that came out of the whole thing was the PRICELESS look on our neighbour Tania's face when I finally fessed up. She was gobsmacked and at first she thought I meant that I was wanting to be an FtM - that one moment was fun. The rest of those ten years was kind of sad actually.

It's not jealousy or even hatred...it's just realism on my part and not about my ability to pass, it's about the state of mind that I feel being actively stealthy and maintaining a deception creates. I've spent most of my life maintaining one deception and by the end, I barely knew who I was and was close to suicide. I honestly do not want to put myself through that again. If that's what works for you then it works for you, but I will not escape one lie just to live another.

Which is not to say I will wear a badge saying "Trans and Proud" I'll just treat it as part of me and get on with my life.

Stealth to me means being able to live, work, socialize with friends and just enjoy life without the worry of being outed, stared at, insulted or suffer violence.
Thank god I've been in this fortunate position for almost 20 years. The only people who know my past is one old friend and my family who all live back in England. In my new adopted country my past is not known, and I have a high profile job too, I travel extensively and meet many people. I don't believe I'm deceiving anyone, I'm just taking advantage of the fact that I'm able to do this.
I would not be able to cope were it not this way. I also think that people who are against stealth are people who are not able to live it.

Don't forget that the real definition of stealth is that it does not show up on radar.  It's not like if a stealth plane was flying overhead you could not look up and say "Fark!  It's an airplane."

Quote from: Saskia on August 02, 2010, 12:43:16 PM
I also think that people who are against stealth are people who are not able to live it.

But Saskia - with respect, to me, that is PATENTLY incorrect. I can live stealth. I've proved it comprehensively over an extended period twice in my 30 years since transition. I just reached a point where I CHOSE not to do so for my own reasons, but nobody forced me out of it, and like Helena says, I'm not walking around advertising. In fact if you met me IRL you might say that I effectively was in stealth... For me it's more an attitude of mind.

Now call me a liar about that by all means, I am not going to be offended, you are entitled to your view, but as you don't know me, it's a difficult thing for either of us to prove one way of another. That's why I tend to try and avoid threads like this, because all of us can only speak from our own experiences.

My friends would tell you that I can live stealth. You may choose to doubt that. Neither of us can control the others perceptions. So it follows that neither of us can be said to be wrong - just different. :)

rejennyrated - Yes those are my views and others are entitled to theirs. We are all different.
I could not envisage not being stealth. It would destroy me.
When I first came out I remained at the same company for about 2 years after, and I hated the different dynamic introduced by my being open about my status. I could not do as you have done and be open about it. I am a very private person and would never talk to friends about my past since it would change things. I hope to continue my stealthy life till I breath my last breath.

More and more... this is exactly what my ideas are, regarding stealth, etc.

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 17, 2009, 03:24:05 AM
I see "stealth" as an intermediate step between "passing" and assimilation.

"Passing" is (in my perception) when you are deliberately creating a false impression. I.E. your male, a guy, but passing as female on a superficial level (appearance, mannerisms, voice) and you know you are male. It is a put-on, an act.

"Stealth" (to me) is more like you have had SRS, you believe you are a woman and act like a woman most of the time but you have this dirty little secret that you are slipping by everyone, except maybe those you feel need to know.

Beyond that is assimilation. You are so totally and completely integrated into womanhood that there is nothing else, anything else is incomprehensible - it is all just easy and natural all the time.

Quote from: Luv2Dance on August 02, 2010, 04:27:30 PM
More and more... this is exactly what my ideas are, regarding stealth, etc.

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 17, 2009, 03:24:05 AM
I see "stealth" as an intermediate step between "passing" and assimilation.

"Passing" is (in my perception) when you are deliberately creating a false impression. I.E. your male, a guy, but passing as female on a superficial level (appearance, mannerisms, voice) and you know you are male. It is a put-on, an act.

"Stealth" (to me) is more like you have had SRS, you believe you are a woman and act like a woman most of the time but you have this dirty little secret that you are slipping by everyone, except maybe those you feel need to know.

Beyond that is assimilation. You are so totally and completely integrated into womanhood that there is nothing else, anything else is incomprehensible - it is all just easy and natural all the time.

This is a good definition. I always hated the term "passing", because as it is used it just seems like a synonym for pretending, or passing yourself off as something you're really not. I don't care anymore about stealth or any of those cloak and dagger terms. I am merely becoming integrated into my outward life as the woman I've always been. I know I'm a woman from the inside out, and so does everyone I come into contact with- there's no question in any of our minds. :)  I think it eventually becomes the full realization that you are now the right side out version of who you've always been on the inside, especially once you're cured. Some further thoughts on this point of view are in this thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,70287.msg497941.html#msg497941 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,70287.msg497941.html#msg497941)

I have nothing to hide, pass, or be stealth about. But I also don't feel the compelling need to go around bragging to everyone I meet about the birth defect I used to have between my legs either. It's a completely different mindset which transcends being "trans" anything.

Quote from: FairyGirl on August 03, 2010, 01:10:59 PM

This is a good definition. I always hated the term "passing", because as it is used it just seems like a synonym for pretending, or passing yourself off as something you're really not. I don't care anymore about stealth or any of those cloak and dagger terms. I am merely becoming integrated into my outward life as the woman I've always been. I know I'm a woman from the inside out, and so does everyone I come into contact with- there's no question in any of our minds. :)  I think it eventually becomes the full realization that you are now the right side out version of who you've always been on the inside, especially once you're cured. Some further thoughts on this point of view are in this thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,70287.msg497941.html#msg497941 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,70287.msg497941.html#msg497941)

I have nothing to hide, pass, or be stealth about. But I also don't feel the compelling need to go around bragging to everyone I meet about the birth defect I used to have between my legs either. It's a completely different mindset which transcends being "trans" anything.

I CON CURRRRRRR LADFIES!!!!!BRAVO!!!!

My definition of stealth is when you know you are and stop talking and bitching about it day in and day out.