Susan's Place Transgender Resources

To the ladies:

Does the sexism bother you? Transitioning to womanhood, you may encounter sexism for the first time. Does it piss you off to suddenly be seen as less than - less competent, less worthy, etc. To have to work twice as hard as men to get any recognition or even your fair share?
Does it make you more on fire for women's rights because you can see the difference?

nope im black so im use to it. whenever i even do an ok job people are like. WOW good job. makes it even more easy to move up th ladder. plus its just the way the world works for now

I have encountered sexism when I was at work.  At first it really ticked me off, untill I began to look at it as the people involved were only validating me as a woman.

And I have always been a Feminist at heart, so I now can just be a little more vocal abiut it.



Janet

whenever i even do an ok job people are like. WOW good job.

It says some really bad stuff about our society - on the other hand, that's really funny.  My two best crew mates (going back some 2 decades now off and on) are African American and we see this stuff all the time, it keeps me constantly amazed at the basic level of dumbness in America.  A thought I find most comforting most of the time. 

hey tekla it is what it is. dont know much about how things are for you on the west coast but on this end things are very much still color and sex Oriented. Come to tiger ridge GA and see how little things have changed. May be not as color blind as California but in time who knows.  So don't get your undies in a bundle if someone make a cat call to you or slaps you on the butt

1.fake documents; 2.jobs; 3.$ for srs; 4.get srs & re-enter workforce; 5.worry about how hard it is to be female; 6.get phone that works

bellaon7 you are so right!

Quote from: Tristan on November 22, 2009, 08:53:15 PM
bellaon7 you are so right!

& I could not wish to be more wrong!

It doesn't bother me a whole lot.  While it's not right I've learned to use it for my own advantage.

-={LR}=-

I can't say I can speak from experience yet but Janet's take about validation is kind of where I start. I WANT to be treated like a woman to the last detail, to the point that I'd get warm fuzzies if someone condescended to me on that basis.

It's probably not "right" but it appeals to me.

well after hearing about it from other women that I've worked with over the years, I should have been perpaired.  But it caught me by surprise when it first happend. Now of course, I've adapted to it.  It's not right, but it's how things are for now...Little steps all the time.

Beni

Bellaon7 has it right.  Get there, then see if it's right, and try to fix what isn't.  It of course is other people's problems.  And of course, they become mine when I let them. 

And Tristan, I guess I could take a slap or two on the butt when it becomes a lady's butt!  Or slap back, and not the butt!  I know dear, that may be very problematic in your curcumstance. 

SusanKG

I get the impression that some guys think that IQ comes from the penis.  So no penis, no IQ.

Getting it from store clerks at Best Buy and stuff was bad enough, and sometimes I would sucker punch them on tech just to soothe my bruised ego.

But when it happened to me from team mates I had worked with for years prior to my transition I came to the realization that it may have been more ingrained than I first thought.  It was an unconscious response.  They may have actually thought themselves to be PC and understanding of other points of view, but they are dismissive of women at an unconscious level.

At first it was a little cute and gratifying to get that complete a validation, but now it just pisses me off.

-Sandy(I'll shoot the next guy who calls me "perky"!)

I've always been overly sensitive to it both when it is used against women and men.  I very much dislike expectations based upon sex, male or female. I've been exalted for things I had no business being praised for and stepped on for things I do well - all based on my sex.  I cannot help see it - so much so I feel a bit obsessed about it.  Whenever I encounter it I turn into "that guy" and correct the mis-attribution - sometimes to my detriment, but I hate to see it.  We can only break these preconceived ideas if we educate and not buy into the crap ourselves.

Sandy, your avatar pic is so per--uhhh, purty.

Sexism has always pissed me off. It still does. And it pisses me off to see how blasé people can be. Fine, learn to live with it. But don't pretend that this society is just, or that the "upside" of sexism is remotely worth it.

I do find it annoying and at the same time also realize this is what women have always dealt with. That, along with dealing with my everyday life as female, has made me realize just how clueless men sometimes really are (present company excepted, of course :-*). Women share a kind of inside knowledge that most men know nothing about, and which we really have no desire to let them in on.

What was really annoying was discovering that some women are just as guilty of sexism as men.

I 'transitioned' in 1974, at the age of 24. I didn't have a lot of work history but enough to see my change in status pretty dramatically. It was hard building a career as a woman (in a male-dominated field) and you had to be twice as good to be seen as an equal. Even then there were disparities in wage scale. Still today I see "the glass ceiling". My lifetime earnings are probably 75% of what I would have made as a male because of the difficulty of breaking through into management. In my 35 years, I have been a rabid supporter of equal opportunity and equal pay. I have also had a few companies 'against the wall', facing clear cut discrimination cases, and forced policy changes. I feel good to see my field now 10% female instead of the 1% it was in 1974.  ;D

Yeah, it bothers me. I've experienced lots, and lots, and lots of it.

Quote from: interalia on November 22, 2009, 11:10:05 PM
I've always been overly sensitive to it both when it is used against women and men.  I very much dislike expectations based upon sex, male or female.

This.

Well said Alyssa. I'm in total agreement.
Sarah

Quote from: interalia on November 22, 2009, 11:10:05 PM
I've always been overly sensitive to it both when it is used against women and men.

I'm the same way.

Quote from: interalia on November 22, 2009, 11:10:05 PM
I've always been overly sensitive to it both when it is used against women and men.  I very much dislike expectations based upon sex, male or female.

Me too.

I don't understand what is meant by "sexism against men." I understand that in order to preserve a patriarchy, both male and female roles are restricted. But that's not sexism. Sexism is when a resume with a male name is seen as more impressive than the same resume with a female name. That goes only one way.

Really?  Try applying for an elementary school teaching position with a male name.

Sexism is bothersome and it does go both ways. Racism is bothersome also and it is prevalent among all the various races.

I've been sick and tired of all the various ism skisms for years  :P

having applied for several jobs lately I can say when they say they want diversity, or a few I applied for were from women run, owned operated and most 99% of the employees were women there is definitely a time when being a white guy is not to your advantage. How do I bring diversity to anything without outing myself.  One great job they wanted a women with entrepreneurial experience willing to work with women in the prison system. Interesting I was a women entrepreneur no longer though, so does my new gender take away from my pas,t no but like above do I out myself?  I think this definitely works both ways now days.
Andrew

Indeed. There are rare exceptions. It might well be harder for an equally-qualified man to attain the august and lavishly-compensated position of elementary school teacher. He'll probably have to settle for a position as principal.

Quote from: Virginia Marie on November 23, 2009, 05:35:57 PM
Sexism is bothersome and it does go both ways. Racism is bothersome also and it is prevalent among all the various races.

I've been sick and tired of all the various ism skisms for years  :P

Amen to that.

Affirmative action does not equal sexism.
Seeking women for jobs dealing with women's issues does not equal sexism.
Seeking diversity does not equal sexism; it corrects pre-existing sexism.

Sure, women have a somewhat easier time getting jobs with affirmative action in place than without. Still, equally qualified and productive women are overlooked compared to their male colleagues. I haven't seen this a few times; I see it all the time.

It's getting better. There is still a long way to go.

Sexism vrs TSism? Bring on the sexism if I can be left alone for being TS!

OK, Cool.  Now you're a woman.  Can I pay you 75% of what the guy sitting next to you makes and pocket the rest as my bonus?  Fine.  I'll call you anything you like.  And you wonder why women don't like you?  I'm amazed.

Quote from: tekla on November 23, 2009, 08:32:53 PM
OK, Cool.  Now you're a woman.  Can I pay you 75% of what the guy sitting next to you makes and pocket the rest as my bonus?  Fine.  I'll call you anything you like.  And you wonder why women don't like you?  I'm amazed.

I don't who if anyone you are adressing, but yes if I can start with your premise & then go from there then my answer is an unequvical yes!

So, 30 some years of women working for equal pay for equal work goes down the ->-bleeped-<-ter so you can be fem?  No wonder they don't much like you.

I suppose if the alternative is being fired for being trans and making 0%, it's at least an improvement. But I really don't like competing in the Opression Olympics.

To choose between 0 and 75% is a pimp choice.  People who are willing to settle for less, tend to get less - big surprise.  Odd deal that though, people who demand more, tend to get that too.

I think benevolent sexism bothers me more than anything because it is so devious and underhanded.

"Women are so much more pure and wonderful than we men that we must protect them and keep them in cages."

UGH!!!!

I hear that sentiment from well meaning men and I start grating my teeth.  It is worse when I hear it from women.  Call it sexism, whatever, but I hate judgments about someone based on their sex that have nothing to do with actual biological differences.

"Women can have children and men cannot."  - no problem with this statement, it is a judgment based upon biology.
"Women are more nurturing than men."  - sure studies can be shown to support this, but we have little to no biological basis, so it could very well be just a cultural condition, but I can understand sentiments like this alright without wanting to strangle anyone.
"Men are not good nurturers."  - I can feel my teeth grating.
"Women are not good providers."  - ACK!  Just because they live in a society that won't let them!??!?  UGH!

Every single candidate for Negligent Mother of the Year, as it turns out (and don't kid yourselves, the number is almost infinite) is a woman.

Quote from: interalia on November 23, 2009, 11:41:43 PM
I think benevolent sexism bothers me more than anything because it is so devious and underhanded.

"Women are so much more pure and wonderful than we men that we must protect them and keep them in cages."

UGH!!!!

I hear that sentiment from well meaning men and I start grating my teeth.  It is worse when I hear it from women.  Call it sexism, whatever, but I hate judgments about someone based on their sex that have nothing to do with actual biological differences.

"Women can have children and men cannot."  - no problem with this statement, it is a judgment based upon biology.
"Women are more nurturing than men."  - sure studies can be shown to support this, but we have little to no biological basis, so it could very well be just a cultural condition, but I can understand sentiments like this alright without wanting to strangle anyone.
"Men are not good nurturers."  - I can feel my teeth grating.
"Women are not good providers."  - ACK!  Just because they live in a society that won't let them!??!?  UGH!

I know exactly what you mean! I tend to only hear it from older people, though. Still grates on me, though, especially when they claim they're too old to learn.

Quote from: interalia on November 23, 2009, 11:41:43 PM
I think benevolent sexism bothers me more than anything because it is so devious and underhanded.

"Women are so much more pure and wonderful than we men that we must protect them and keep them in cages."

UGH!!!!

I hear that sentiment from well meaning men and I start grating my teeth.  It is worse when I hear it from women.  Call it sexism, whatever, but I hate judgments about someone based on their sex that have nothing to do with actual biological differences.

"Women can have children and men cannot."  - no problem with this statement, it is a judgment based upon biology.
"Women are more nurturing than men."  - sure studies can be shown to support this, but we have little to no biological basis, so it could very well be just a cultural condition, but I can understand sentiments like this alright without wanting to strangle anyone.
"Men are not good nurturers."  - I can feel my teeth grating.
"Women are not good providers."  - ACK!  Just because they live in a society that won't let them!??!?  UGH!

I agree 100%.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 23, 2009, 06:09:29 PM
Affirmative action does not equal sexism.
Seeking women for jobs dealing with women's issues does not equal sexism.
Seeking diversity does not equal sexism; it corrects pre-existing sexism.

Sure, women have a somewhat easier time getting jobs with affirmative action in place than without. Still, equally qualified and productive women are overlooked compared to their male colleagues. I haven't seen this a few times; I see it all the time.

It's getting better. There is still a long way to go.

Positive discrimination is still discrimination no matter who you discriminate against.

Does the sexism bother you?
It really depends on what mood Im in, otherwise I don't really care, some men can so so patronising to women, Iv given up going to my local garage with my car for service, my BF now takes it if needs it.
Last time I was there I said to myself ''never again'' the way they spoke to me, some guys really think women are dumb when it comes to cars, I know how a car works, where I put my gas and so on.
''don't worry about it chick'' ''leave it to me luv'' ''its ok I'II take the wheel'' they really thought I was a dumb ''chick'' with boobs for brains, its so embarrassing and very ignorant.
I remember I mentioned it to my brother just after that, I just couldnd believe his reaction ''well you choose to be a woman'' I thought that was a very stupid and hurtful remark.

Anyway I'II end on a good note, not on a mourn, at least my BF (Fiance) is a very understanding guy, certainly knows how to treat a lady. I know here we go again, is that sexism, well Im guilty as well, I like a guy who is a gentleman not a sexist prat, sorry.
p

^^

thank you, I was just thinking much the same thing.

If someone wants to under pay me or not hire me because I'm a woman, then that's something that bothers me.

But the "let me help out the poor dear" sort of stuff - even when it implies he's smarter than me...I think would just push my buttons too much for me to care.

Sexism has always bothered me, regardless whether I was perceived as a man or woman. I don't like racism, classism, ableism, etc., either!

Z

Quote from: Virginia Marie on November 23, 2009, 05:35:57 PM
Sexism is bothersome and it does go both ways. Racism is bothersome also and it is prevalent among all the various races.

I've been sick and tired of all the various ism skisms for years  :P

There with you on that Z